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Raw food for Oxalate Stone forming dog

pasdecouleur
September 9th, 2009, 07:00 PM
Hi all, this is my first post. I read pretty much the entire forum and every informational site I could find on this condition, and the options for diet.

Unfortunately, since they are calcium oxalate, and form in acidic conditions (brought on by high protein diets) I cannot follow any of the diets specifically. I formulated a diet that I thought could work in two parts: 1 part raw, 1 part other:

Raw: Some boneless, some boned chicken and turkey

Other:
white rice, then the following alternating:
broccoli
apple
cabbage
cauliflower
peas
Including potential supplements:
bonemeal powder (calcium carbonate)
potassium citrate
omega 3 + 9

I know that in nature, dogs are supposed to be high protein, but again, I am trying to come up with a diet that will prevent stones but will incorporate raw. Any thoughts from the raw side of things? Can my dog eat fiber and raw together? I saw on one forum that this is not a good combination. Should I just cook the protein?

Lastly, I have a 22 lb mini schnauzer and have NO idea about quantity. He currently eats 1 cup of dry kibble per day. (Yes, I know dry is bad... I am in transition now.)

Thanks for your feedback ahead of time. I know Merlins Hope has some experience with this, from other things I read.

MerlinsHope
September 27th, 2009, 03:23 PM
calcium oxalate, and form in acidic conditions (brought on by high protein diets)

I can't tell you how incorrect your information is.

Stones are not caused by foods high in protein.
In fact it is because of foods high in purines and not all proteins are high in purines.

Meat "byproducts" as commonly found in commerial dogs foods are very high in oxalates and that is entirely not the same thing as a piece of good old meat.

You can avoid organ meats and again, by products, so probably your worse enemy is your kibble at the moment.

Loads of vegetables are high in oxalates themselves, and frankly if you don't "juice" the vegetables, your dog is gaining very little nutrition from them, so the diet you are presenting here, I have to say really is not a diet of merit, and I don't think it's going to achieve what you want it to.



and I'm quoting this:

According to Ron Hines, DVM, PhD, an increase of calcium in the urine is a major factor in the formation of calcium oxalate stones. A diet high in salt, protein, lactose, sucrose, fructose and magnesium causes a higher urine calcium concentration. If there is less phosphorus in the diet, the urine calcium concentrate will be higher as well. A diet that is too high or too low in vitamin D can also increase urine calcium. A vitamin B6 deficiency can cause blood oxalate levels to increase.

So in fact, the dispensing of vegetables is actually not helping because they too, are often very high in salts.

Choose meat that is low in phosphorous ( avoid organ meats and meat byproducts), and you won't have any problems. We have kidney dogs here in failure and they eat raw meat and they are none the worse off, so that's why I say it's important to understand the "high protein", issue... .

Please read this article, it's an eye opener and I hope will get people to stop spewing this "high protein", nonsense

http://www.ehow.com/about_5365589_dogs-foods-cause-oxalate-crystals.html

and then read this
http://www.ehow.com/way_5188428_raw-prevent-crystals-dogs-urine.html

5 and 10 years ago when I told people to feed their dogs raw food, they all told me to go jump in the lake, some even called me a witch or evil person.
Finally.......... vets are getting with it



Cheers
MM