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Thanks for the enCOURAGEment.

sammiec
August 18th, 2004, 05:52 PM
Thanks to all of you for your encouragement. It hasn't been an easy situation, and as I write this I am beginning to tear up AGAIN!! *sigh*

Upon returning home with Danny my only fear was realized that he is NOT compatable with cats and is very dominating and aggressive with Briggs. I am lucky that Connor is still here and the two dogs didn't end up dead. All three are fine, but it was not a nice situation. I took take Danny to a shelter where he will be evaluated and hopefully adopted as an 'only' pet.

Lucky Rescue
August 18th, 2004, 05:56 PM
Does Andrea know that Danny is in a shelter?

Luba
August 18th, 2004, 05:58 PM
OMG Sam are you okay?????? I'm not gonna ask what happened but it sounds like it was awful. :( I hope nobody (furry/non furry) was injured.

sammiec
August 18th, 2004, 06:03 PM
Andrea told me I was on my own when I picked him up and she couldn't take him back, which I was a little scared of, incase I needed help. I felt alone. But I thought I would try it out and see how things go...but they went bad very fast. I tried to call and got a busy signal numerous times.

Luba
August 18th, 2004, 06:15 PM
Sheesh I"m soooo sorry to hear that. I don't know what else to say!
I'm happy you and your furries are okay. I can imagine how upset you are.
Just know you did what you could, these things happen and you cannot predict them sometimes.

Lucky Rescue
August 18th, 2004, 08:36 PM
Andrea knows now. You should have waited til you got in touch with her. IF the line was busy, she was there.

sammiec
August 18th, 2004, 08:50 PM
Lucky, from your post I gather that you're upset with my decision. Trust me, I feel horrible that things worked out this way; I am absolutely miserable. When I spoke with and saw Andrea last she said that things were in my hands and she was going to be unable to help me in any way. I am a wreck over it. The last thing that I wante was for Danny to go back to the shelter, but I think he has a better chance at being adopted here in the city then in the country.

Luba
August 18th, 2004, 09:16 PM
This is awful! And what I say is going to be touchie here I know that.

LR I know how you must feel, awful that he's in a shelter. However, I also understand Sam's point of view. I can't imagine how terrified I'd be with a strange dog goin after my dog.

I'm not sure exactly how bad things got or what the situation involved completely but it sounds like it may have been ugly.

If I picked up a dog from some rescue and they said to me pretty much I was on my own....well first of all I'd wonder about the rescue itself. (thats just me) Why would they tell me that ?? Wouldn't they 'want' to know the dogs progress? Wouldn't they want to help me? Isn't that was rescue is about??
If NOT, then I'd say okay fine you won't hear from me again.

Reputable rescues have a foster/adoption contracts
Did she offer any support for finding potential adopters. What sort of information did you get about Danny?

Sam...I need to ask you DID THEY give you some form of contract/foster sheet/instructions/ANYTHING?

I'd be skeptical if there was no paperwork involved. Especially if I was a stranger going to this home, how would she know what my plans for this dog are. What if Sam was some nutjob crazy person who wanted to use the dog for fighting or something??

Sorry some of you may say thats mean BUT would I risk it? NO! Especially if the rescue offered me NO support. I find that to be horrible, in particular if you are doing them a favour!

This is just a sad sad sad story.

Lucky Rescue
August 18th, 2004, 09:22 PM
I"m just confused, as Danny has played with all Pitcrew's pit bulls since March and never shown aggression.

She told you to call her with problems, no? Did you introduce the dogs on neutral territory?

It takes more than one day for adjustments to be made.

edited to ask: what shelter did you take him to? Andrea wants to know. Did you take his crate too?

Better yet, we are chatting at Pit Bull Pets. Can you join us??

glasslass
August 18th, 2004, 09:35 PM
Sammiec, I think we all agreed that your own pets MUST come first. I really don't know what else you could have done. I'm just amazed that under the circumstances of why he had to be rehomed that she just washed her hands of him. I think you did the right thing. You really made an effort to help. Not your fault it turned out this way.

Lucky Rescue
August 18th, 2004, 09:52 PM
she just washed her hands of him.

I've known Andrea for years, and she would never wash her hands of any of her dogs, and has gone through hell for them like you wouldn't believe. Right now she is in the process of packing up and leaving her own home for them, and is in personal and financial turmoil.

She still has 8 dogs and desperately needs to find fosters for 3 of them. By "on your own" she meant she has no time or resources right now to look for suitable homes and has to ask the foster to try and help with this.

sammiec
August 18th, 2004, 10:00 PM
Luba to answer your question, there were no papers except his medical papers.
Lucky, you and I have gotten along very well since I started coming here and I'm sorry that you feel I have let you down. I may not be as knowledgeable as some, but I know a little bit about dog introduction - I have read MANY posts from yourself and others which have helped. Briggs and Danny were introduced through scent first, then face to face. Danny proceeded to rest his head on Briggs' back and went very stiff. Then he began to put his paw on her head which she refused. Danny showed his teeth and growled at Briggs. I didn't think much of this, just a bit concerned since I was told he wasn't female aggressive.
Connor was introduced on a towel (scent first) which Danny reacted negatively to. We gave him the benefit of the doubt and tried through the door - he wanted through that door. I was scared for my Connor. I had the dog on a leash and wasn't able to get the crate set up because it was very dirty and needed to be sanitized first. I could not control him on the lead even with the slip collar on. Connor was my main concern, I love that cat too much and the poor guy had no idea what was going on.

Luba
August 18th, 2004, 10:05 PM
Sam, sorry to pester you about this but what were you told when you picked him up? Did you ask her about cats and did she know you have one?

When you say that you couldn't take him back did she advise you what you could do if you had any troubles or how to reach her if you had problems.

I'm just confused!

Lucky Rescue
August 18th, 2004, 10:06 PM
Then he began to put his paw on her head which she refused. Danny showed his teeth and growled at Briggs.

That's all? He growled, and you thought a dog would end up dead? Sammie, I am just trying to understand what happened.

So it was because of Connor that you took Danny to the shelter?

Which shelter??

chico2
August 18th, 2004, 10:14 PM
Sammie that is very upsetting I am sure,I am sad for you and poor Danny,but I can fully understand your fear,I too was worried about Connor.
The sad truth is though,shelters in Toronto are jam-packed with pits,what are his chances?
I think the whole thing just happened very hurridly,you never really had a chance to get to know Danny,maybe under different circumstances it would have been ok :(
I don't think Andrea is to blame,she's in a desperate situation and was probably hoping for the best,is there a possibility she can get Danny out..?
All these unhappy situations because of a idiotic by-law,the dogs were happy at Andreas,why could they just not leave them be :mad:
I just remembered you are not in Toronto..so that's not where Danny is..

sammiec
August 18th, 2004, 10:14 PM
That's all? He growled, and you thought a dog would end up dead? Sammie, I am just trying to understand what happened.

So it was because of Connor that you took Danny to the shelter?

Which shelter??

I have given the shelter information to Andrea. I am a mess Lucky!! I feel incredibly bad and alot of my actions where not with a straight head. I was not concerned about Briggs part so much as Connor. Briggs I didn't think much of it, it was the Connor things that scared the crap out of me.

Luba
August 18th, 2004, 10:19 PM
Sam u need a hug

(((HUGGIES)))

What were u so upset about that you weren't thinking straight?
I can see you being upset about Connor becoming a play toy in Danny's mouth. But it seems like you are disappointed as well.

Lucky Rescue
August 18th, 2004, 10:24 PM
You threw away his vacc and neuter certificates????? The shelter needs those!!! This poor dog needs all the help he can get to find a home and you just took some of that away from him.:(

chico2
August 19th, 2004, 08:27 AM
I was going to stay away for a few days,it seems we've had so much depressing news the last couple of days,too much crying....but here I am again :(
It was just such an unfortunate turn of events,for all people and the dog involved,mostly for Danny.
I am hoping for a good solution,we humans will overcome and hopefully Danny will too,it's a very sad situation,for Sammie,Lucky,Andrea and Danny... :(

heidiho
August 19th, 2004, 09:58 AM
AT least you tried,i wouldnt be hard on myself for that,it is more than alot of people would of done..

mastifflover
August 19th, 2004, 10:35 AM
Sammie I commend you for trying but I have to agree I would never put my own animals at risk. Bottom line you probably would have done better with more time to introduce them. Also did anyone know that Danny was not cat friendly?

Cactus Flower
August 19th, 2004, 11:50 AM
Whatever did or didn't happen, whatever could or could not have been done....

I'm sorry that you are upset and that things ended up this way.
((big hug))

How did Briggs react?

Luba
August 19th, 2004, 01:23 PM
I disagree about giving more time to introduce them. That could have ended in disaster! If the dog was showing aggression to the cat AND to Briggs .....I would have done the same thing Sam did.

It's different if they're just exploring one another and trying to find who dominates who but it doesn't sound like that was the case.

I could not take a chance that the dog would snap. She doesn't know this dog and obviously she was afraid for her dog and cat. She wasn't able to reach Andrea, what else was she to do??

heidiho
August 19th, 2004, 01:30 PM
I am with Luba why take that chance..........

heidiho
August 19th, 2004, 01:52 PM
You know people say aggression is an easy thing to fix,no it is not,i did try alot of things with my pup,and at times it was down right scary,EVERY dog is different and unless you are there you dont know,

Lucky Rescue
August 19th, 2004, 01:55 PM
I am with Luba why take that chance

When you foster animals, you TAKE that chance and you deal with it. ANY new dog, coming into a new home, with new people and new dogs and new cats may lunge at a strange cat even if they were previously good with cats in their former home.

Anyone who knows anything about cats and dogs, is involved with rescue and fostering knows that a new adult dog is not going to be perfectly behaved the minute it walks in the door. Anyone who expects that should not foster.

That's what crates and leashes are for, and what training is for. I have fostered dogs and a couple of them lunged at my cats and other pets. I got a leash, put a bolt in the wall, and attached the leash to the bolt and trained the dog to leave the animals alone. This is part of what you must do when you foster dogs.

I did not try and call the rescue, find the line busy, say I can't crate the dog cause the crate is not clean enough, and dump the dog at the shelter after one day and after not trying anything at all or asking for any help..

Andrea had to take the time today, in the midst of clearing all her dogs off her property, to go to the shelter and explain what happened (including the thrown away vaccination certificates) and buy Danny some time.

heidiho
August 19th, 2004, 01:58 PM
I did not know sammiec is a regular foster person,i thought she was just trying to help someone out,you are right in that instance,my rescue lady had a really scary moment with a gsd but she has been a rescue for years,that is different,someone that is not a rescue and is just a regular person like me,i could understand being scared and not knowing how to handle that.

bbv
August 19th, 2004, 02:10 PM
Okay I read this post over twice and what happened with the papers...I may be just having a blond moment who knows.

Luba
August 19th, 2004, 03:19 PM
I don't believe Sam has ever really fostered before and I would expect that Andrea would want to have helped her. But in the same token she felt that she was on her own and made a decision to take him to the shelter since she couldn't reach Andrea on the phone.

I don't think she would have gone to all the effort to help Andrea and drive all the way there to pick up the dog if she didnt' want to TRY and help!

I do believe she had and still has best intentions in mind. This dog perhaps just was not a good match for her situation. Trying to force the dog to get along with her cat meanwhile it could rip the cat apart doesn't make sense to me.

Coming down hard on Sam is not doing any good.

heidiho
August 19th, 2004, 03:28 PM
Luba is right on the money.

Cinnabear
August 19th, 2004, 04:30 PM
Exactly Luba. Great words.

iRONKNiGHT
August 22nd, 2004, 06:00 AM
Coming down hard on Sam is not doing any good.

i was wondering where's "sammiec" sammy did you leave us?
it's been a while since i've seen sammy... i hope she's okay and she will return! we do care for you lot's sammy.. more than you know!

sammiec
August 23rd, 2004, 08:32 AM
Thanks guys. I needed sometime to myself. I have had a very difficult time with this. To clear up a couple of things; I am NOT a regular foster. I have NEVER fostered before. This being my very first time, out of the goodness of my heart (that will probably receive some rolly eyes be some..) I tried. I really did want to help. Why would I drive 5 hours for this dog and just "dump" him as this has been labeled. I felt very deceived and alone with this situation. I made eveyone fully aware that I had never done this before, even asking for suggestions, which I received, "Don't worry, we're all here for you!" Well, as much as that is a appreciated; you're not here - only when the computer's on. And as much as it may bother some, I do not turn to the computer when I feel that my beloved pets are at risk. I was unfamiliar with what rescuing and fostering entailed and I was scared and worried for my pets. I did not let him run, nor did I leave him tied alone outside. I felt that he would be in a safer environment with people that could handle him, and my pets would be safe.

Lucky, I know that you're upset, I cannot change that. I don't think that explaining will help you understand.

I will say that now on I will take a MUCH more polite approach to newbies that are faced with problems with their animals, I have seen the other end of the bashing. I have not gone to the PBP board, but it must be bad. I recieved an email from an anonymous person telling me that they are sorry for all the bashing that is taking place.

sammiec
August 23rd, 2004, 08:43 AM
Sorry, forgot to mention. As for the papers; this was a "private" conversation that was held off the board, but apparently belongs here.
On our drive back, the papers were thrown up on in the car and in the midst of claning the mess, hubby unknowingly threw them out. He was unaware of the importance of these papers.

Luba
August 23rd, 2004, 11:24 AM
I'm happy you posted Sam! Well written.

mastifflover
August 23rd, 2004, 04:12 PM
I am glad to see you back Sammie. I don't think you have anything to be sorry about you tried you best and you know that, you don't need to explain yourself to anybody. I am sorry that you have been bashed for trying to help. I found that it was the one thing on this board when I joined that pi$$ed me off. I really don't think that is why most people are here. I feel that I have been a dog owner for many many years and I believe that you should try and help those who are new or newer owners or those considering owning a pet. They should not be made to feel like idiots for asking questions that to some are common sense but we all own pets some don't and need advice. I am truly sorry that you were bashed and remember that not all of us on here to bash.