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Tabitha peeing again!!!!!!!!

Winston
August 25th, 2009, 07:51 PM
Well Miss Tabitha is up to her old tricks again! well actually she has been for a couple of weeks on and off but today she really upset me!

As some of you remember she pee's only on Winstons beds or blankets and I have been using pheremones and letting Winston have supervised bed times. None of his blankets get left on the floor cause she will still pee on them pheremones or not.

Lately her choice of targets is Winstons crate. It is an EX LRG crate with a rubber mat in it. Well it is now ruined I am sure cause she has pee'd in there at least 10 times. So now we have to close the bedroom off in the basement where he loves to go lay in his crate. Or I have to let him in and when he comes out I immediately shut the door.

Today was the topper though! I went to do laundry and we had 2 pairs of rubber floor mats laying in the corner for use in the winter. As soon as I went down I could smell pee and thought the litter needed to be cleaned but no she had pee'd on the floor mats and to be honest it probably wasnt the first time thats for sure..but I didnt smell it or see it sooner! It was absolutely disgusting!

They are both due for a check up but I am at my wits end with her! I may have to resort to using some type of drug but the problem is she is a NIGHTMARE to pill...and its almost impossible to do! maybe they could give me something to put on her food but then she probably wont eat it! :sad:

I see her use the litter box too so its not like she doesnt like it. I have seen her come out from peeing in the crate and then go into the box to go!

Sorry just had to rant cause its so frustrating! Dont get me wrong I am so thrilled that she has not chosen any other part of the house or furniture etc to do this! I check all the time just to be sure!

Frenchy
August 25th, 2009, 08:21 PM
Sorry just had to rant cause its so frustrating!

I can soooo relate Winston ! I know , it is NOT fun :frustrated: I'm looking to sell my house in December and might have to rip off the carpet in living room and will have to put another flooring $$$$ :frustrated:

growler~GateKeeper
August 26th, 2009, 01:40 AM
Have you considered taking her to a homeopath vet? There are urinary/kidney/bladder/cystitis remedies that can be explored.

Khari
August 26th, 2009, 07:27 AM
Could you please give a little background on Tabitha for us who do not know her story? Thanks!

ancientgirl
August 26th, 2009, 08:01 AM
Apart from the suggestions about having her checked, have you thought maybe there is something about those mats she is drawn to or doesn't like?:shrug: Have you always used them?

chico2
August 26th, 2009, 08:03 AM
Winston,being very familiar with kitty-pee frustration,I feel for you,but there has to be a reason she's doing this:confused:but what:confused:

Frenchy,we have no carpeting left in our house and the hard-wood floor underneath was damaged from pee,we replaced it all with laminate floor,
I think it looks good and if you buy it on sale,it's not expensive:offtopic:sorry!

Winston
August 26th, 2009, 08:30 AM
Khari here is some background...

Tabitha 13 yrs old...never been sick ever! approx 1 1/2 she started this peeing behavour...had her checked...she had a UIT..treated it...didnt stop problem...had her x ray'd, blood panels, bladder test.

Bottom line vet felt it was either bad behaviour or idiopathic cystitis.

I have been using Feliway which helped for a short time but it certainly has not solved the problem.

She only does this on the dog stuff..not on our furniture, beds etc?????? (until the floor mats in the basement yesterday!)

Oh and the dog is not new too her we have had him almost 10 yrs??

Jim Hall
August 26th, 2009, 08:40 AM
ok stuoid ? bur have u tried 2 boxes?

Winston
August 26th, 2009, 08:44 AM
Hey there Jim! yes we have litter boxes...and I have watched her use them. I think its just her being a b&^%$ !!

14+kitties
August 26th, 2009, 03:47 PM
How about a tropical medication you can apply to her ears? I believe AG was using something for Czari when she first came in.
I would really try growler's suggestion for a homeopath? You never know. That may work.
Have you tried changing the actual litter boxes? Maybe she doesn't like the smell they are giving off if they are old. They are absorbing all those nasty smells... :yuck:
Have you tried LP's home recipe for cleaning the spots she has used? The 1/4 cup vinegar, 1/4 cup rubbing alcohol, 1 cup water one. :D LP - that recipe is gonna be famous!!!!
Maybe Bach Remedy if you can find it. I don't know if you have tried it or not. It's the one you add to their water I think.

ancientgirl
August 26th, 2009, 03:55 PM
How about a tropical medication you can apply to her ears? I believe AG was using something for Czari when she first came in.


I was using prozac (fluoxetine). At first I was using the cream, and rubbing it on the inside of her ear, but she quickly got wise to me and I had to start using pills. It's regular prozac, but in a smaller mg. It worked very well on her, she was stress free and she did not pee anywhere, unlike when I first brought her inside.

You can always ask your vet about it and see if it might be an option for you. Czari was on it about 5 months, maybe 6, I can't recall. She also had no adverse affects on it or when I was weening her off of it.

Stacer
August 26th, 2009, 04:46 PM
Oh Winston, I am sooooo in the same boat, and we're just slowing starting to leave the Port of Pee.

I have Angus on Cosequin for Cats and powdered cranberry suppplement. We've completely altered our lives for the time being with closed doors and covered furniture (poor Skylar and Finn). And I've changed the litter to a more favourable one.

I've found that completely eliminating the smell on everything he's peed on has been beneficial, I've even thrown a bunch of stuff out that I didn't think I could get the smell out of. You're so lucky she's only doing it on mats and such.

It's a tough go when urination is the problem, I hope you can sort her soon.

Winston
August 26th, 2009, 04:54 PM
I so wish I could figure her out! We spent almost 1500.00 on tests an nothing came out as a conclusive diagnosis. She is really petite and so tough to pill. The last round of pills I thought I killed her! she flew out of my arms..hit a window and knocked herelf out for a second! all 6 freaking pounds of her! I have done everything everyone has mentioned from the cleaning, new litter boxes, thrown things out...

AG my only fear about the cream in the ears is what if Bomber licks her ears? and he does clean her? I dont know for now we will have to see if the annual checkup shows anything else?

happycats
August 26th, 2009, 05:19 PM
Had (and still sometimes have) the same problem with Tuffy, she's 14 years old now. I found that whenever she starts with the pee behaviour, I lock her in our workroom (small tiled room in our basement) with just litter, water and food, and she never ever messes in there when she's locked in there! I sometimes keep her in there for up to a week, never letting her out (I do go in all the time to play with her and give her lovings) and once a week has passed she seems to be good for a few months.

I believe in Tuffy's case it's a behaviour problem (SPITE/RESENTMENT) she hates all the other cats (they pick on her) and she hates the dog, and pees on all his stuff .

So maybe a bit of solitary confinement will help Tabitha as well :shrug:

ancientgirl
August 26th, 2009, 07:14 PM
I so wish I could figure her out! We spent almost 1500.00 on tests an nothing came out as a conclusive diagnosis. She is really petite and so tough to pill. The last round of pills I thought I killed her! she flew out of my arms..hit a window and knocked herelf out for a second! all 6 freaking pounds of her! I have done everything everyone has mentioned from the cleaning, new litter boxes, thrown things out...

AG my only fear about the cream in the ears is what if Bomber licks her ears? and he does clean her? I dont know for now we will have to see if the annual checkup shows anything else?

Oh yeah, that might be an issue, the ear licking that is.

What I used to do when I started giving Czari the pills was hide them, not in pill pockets, but these little chewable hairball treats. I'd just stick it in the treat and she loved it and never knew realized there was a pill in there.

I hope you can figure out what's wrong with her. :pray:

BiscuitandGravy
August 26th, 2009, 07:58 PM
Hey there. I can feel your frustration as my kitty Biscuit has had peeing problems for probably about 6 months or so now. It was initially feline lower urinary tract disease and she was treated with a shot of Convenia, which is an antibiotic that stays in the body for two weeks. It was a but more expensive than pills or liquid but WAY worth it considering Biscuit is just about impossible to pill.

Even after treatment she was still peeing outside the box, on my bed, backpacks, purses, curtains. Through research I found that it was most likely because of her bad and painful memories of having to strain to pee in the box when she was sick. What I did that worked was to move her litterbox to another location, in my case across the basement in a nice quiet, isolated corner. She pretty much immediately stopped peeing in the house. I am also now cleaning the boxes everyday vs. every other day.

You may try this and I hope it could help. Just providing a new enviroment for her "bathroom" might be just what she needs. If you do this though make sure you take her to the new location several times, especially if she is scratching and displaying behavior like she's getting ready to pee.

If that doesn't help I have also heard of great luck with what Happycat mentioned which is to put her in a small room with her box, food, water, and toys for however long she needs to "reset" her good bathroom behavior.

Was there anything you did differently during the time that she was using her box normally?

Winston
January 13th, 2011, 06:56 PM
Well I thought I would breath some life back into this thread...:( We are headed back to the vet tomorrow. I finally decided to close my windows completely since its pretty much winter now and was not impressed to smell urine. When I went looking for it I found that my little princess must have been peeing behind one of our bedroom dressers. The dresser sits on an angle in the corner of the room so the area behind it is about 2' x 4'...so lots of area to cover. It was all dried though...nothing was wet.

Until I started cleaning the area first with pro solve and then with the solution of alcohal, etc..The I covered it with baking soda thinking it would draw out the odour. Cleaned it again and let it dry.

Came home on Tuesday to a few pee spots back in the same area...so either she can still smell it or she is not well. She has been sleeping alot but I contribute that to boredom at times and her age...she is an old gal after all.

She is actually ignoring me because I have been closing the bedroom when I went to work the past couple of days so she cant sleep on the bed like she normally does..:D

So I am hoping that she will cooperate with a sample for the vet. I take her tomorrow @ 4pm. :thumbs up

Cindy

Sandra RVT
January 13th, 2011, 07:56 PM
I feel your pain. Before we lost Karma to kidney failure at 17 she had been peeing in the house off and on for the entire 8 years she had been with us. Eventually we just added litterboxes everywhere. At last count we had 6 litter boxes for 2 cats. It was a real pain but it was the only thing that seemed to work, and we too had tried everything!

14+kitties
January 13th, 2011, 10:05 PM
Good luck tomorrow at the vets. Hopefully you will find the reason Tabitha is peeing. :fingerscr

Dee-O-Gee
January 13th, 2011, 10:42 PM
We are experiening the same problem with Kitty, Winston. :( Litter boxes are cleaned daily but we switched to a new kitty litter and have stopped the issue using amonia on our area carpets.

Kitty started to use the dog blanket and kitchen area rug as squat spots but when this happened, I immediately threw them in the washing machine with a 1/4 cup of amonia instead of bleach. She hasn't squatted on either one of these mats for the last couple months (knock on wood!)

Now I wash them weekly with laundry detergent and 1/4 cup of amonia just because. :)

Good luck tomorrow and keep us posted! :thumbs up

rainbow
January 13th, 2011, 10:50 PM
Aw, I'm so sorry to hear about Tabitha. :(

Good luck at the vet tomorrow. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

lindapalm
January 14th, 2011, 12:29 AM
We also used Fluoretine for a peeing problem, and it seems to work. We give it to the cat in a pill pocket, and luckily he takes it, none of my other ones will take pill pockets, though.

ancientgirl
January 14th, 2011, 07:40 AM
Good luck with your girl Winston!:pray:

hazelrunpack
January 14th, 2011, 11:41 AM
Sending along some more :goodvibes: for Tabitha, Winston! Good luck at the vet today!

Masha
January 14th, 2011, 01:16 PM
Good luck at the vet - hopefully all is well :fingerscr

Winston
January 14th, 2011, 03:29 PM
Thanks for all the well wishes...other than being empty and having a bladder the size of a prune she is not showing any other ailments at the moment.

Her weight hasnt changed from a couple of months ago, she's eating, seems happy, temperature was normal just an empty bladder.

So we go back Monday to try again.

She told me we had to change her food and I just said no we wont because this is the only wet food I have ever been able to get her to eat and also she turns her nose up at anything different. She is just shy of 6lbs and I am not messing with her food again. She never even went any further :D

ancientgirl
January 14th, 2011, 06:35 PM
I don't blame you for being so adamant about her food. It's so hard to get these kitties to eat anything sometimes.

I hope you get some good news on Monday.:pray:

Winston
January 17th, 2011, 06:11 PM
No sample today...they said she was empty :shrug: then again how the heck do you get a sample out of a kitty with a bladder the size of a prune :( apparently for a healthy kitty it should be the size of a clemantine ??

Of course she came home and promptly rushed down stairs with me in tow and she went and had a pee in the box :shrug:

She will be spending the day on Thursday until they can get an adequate sample. I guess if need be they said they could probably give her some sub q fluids...we shall see..

Someone is gonna be really pissed at me..:laughing:

hazelrunpack
January 18th, 2011, 01:26 PM
Bummer that you have to wait till Thursday now. Hope they get a sufficient sample then! :goodvibes:

rainbow
January 18th, 2011, 06:58 PM
Of course she came home and promptly rushed down stairs with me in tow and she went and had a pee in the box :shrug:


Geeze ....how frustrating is that, eh? :D

Hope she co-operates on Thursday. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Winston
January 19th, 2011, 01:10 PM
Thanks she will have no choice on Thursday! In a way I hope they find something in the urine because if there is no infection I dont know what I am going to do with her??? I cant have her continually peeing all over the house! :(

hazelrunpack
January 19th, 2011, 04:34 PM
Good luck tomorrow, Winston! :goodvibes:

Winston
January 21st, 2011, 05:14 AM
Well my little pee princess stayed at the vets for the day! She was none to happy with me! she could have come home @ 10:30 am but they didnt think anyone was home until after work?? I told them next time to call ??

They sent the sample out for Culture and Sensitivity and I should now the rest of the results sometime today.

I am curious though? Tabitha came home and we watched her go to the water bowl 16 times for a drink within the 1st hour she was home?? :eek: We counted because she kept going for a drink, then she would walk away or out of the room and then go back in a drink some more?? I am guessing she was dehydrated?? but why? my only guess is they didnt give her anything to drink all day or she wouldnt drink? she seems back to her royal princess self this morning.

Thanks again for all the well wishes I will update later when the results are in?

Cindy

Winston
January 21st, 2011, 03:10 PM
Well Tabitha has a large amount of blood in her urine...so she is back on Orbax for 30 days and we will wait for the culture and sensitivity to come back next week. I am a little nervous now waiting to see her kidney function?? It wasnt great in Sept so I hope its not worse now?? :(

chico2
January 21st, 2011, 04:07 PM
Well Winston,at least you got some sort of answer,I don't know what Orbax is or what it does,but hopefully it will work and there is no kidney-problems.:pray:

ancientgirl
January 21st, 2011, 04:24 PM
Winston, I hope you at least get an answer soon. Could she just have a UTI?

Chico, Orbax is an antibiotic. I've had to give it to Oksana before when she's had her cystitis issue. My vet told me it's better because it kills a broader range of bacteria.

Winston
January 21st, 2011, 06:48 PM
Your right AG! and it is pretty expensive. Anything for my baby! :laughing:

Chico Tabitha has kidney insufficiency already and she also has idiopathic cystitus which is a bladder/kidney issue anyway.

My worry this time is its blood and no actual infection?? last time she had e-coli and they prescribed the orbax for that. We chose the same one because it did not give her diarrea. I guess that is a common side effect of it?? IT also as AG mentioned kills a broader range of infections.

She hasnt pee'd anywhere else since I keep the door closed to that room now?? but regardless there are issues that need to be dealt with so I am glad I took her in regardless. Some would have assumed it to be behavioural..

ancientgirl
January 21st, 2011, 07:15 PM
Your right AG! and it is pretty expensive. Anything for my baby! :laughing:

Chico Tabitha has kidney insufficiency already and she also has idiopathic cystitus which is a bladder/kidney issue anyway.

My worry this time is its blood and no actual infection?? last time she had e-coli and they prescribed the orbax for that. We chose the same one because it did not give her diarrea. I guess that is a common side effect of it?? IT also as AG mentioned kills a broader range of infections.

She hasnt pee'd anywhere else since I keep the door closed to that room now?? but regardless there are issues that need to be dealt with so I am glad I took her in regardless. Some would have assumed it to be behavioural..

Yeah, it is very expensive, but I like using it over the others. When I have given it to Oksana, I've noticed she starts to improve faster.

Oksana also has Idiopathic cystitis. I've got her on an Amitriptyline cream. It's an anti-anxiety drug. It has a few side-effects, but I've never noticed any in Oksana. And there is also some question about how it affects the liver, but my vet said the amount she gets isn't anything that will cause an issue.

I've had her on this for several months and thankfully, she's not had any recurrence in a long time. I can't remember if you had said in the past if you've spoken to your vet about giving Tabitha anything.

Winston
January 21st, 2011, 07:31 PM
I have not discussed it with this vet. Basically because previous her pee incidents were minimal. However she is aging and things are happening. We will need to see what affects it may have on her. I will ask the vet what they think??

Yes I noticed the same thing with the Orbax it did work quick.

I am familiar with Amitryptaline cause I take it for fibermyalga and it works pretty good....:thumbs up

hazelrunpack
January 21st, 2011, 09:56 PM
More worries, eh? :( :grouphug: But it was a good thing you took her in when you did.

:fingerscr they can find a protocol that keeps her healthy now!

Sending along some :goodvibes: for a quick recovery!

luckypenny
January 21st, 2011, 11:38 PM
I'm hoping whatever it is, the antibiotics will clear it up fast :fingerscr. Gentle hugs for Tabitha from me please.

hazelrunpack
January 22nd, 2011, 10:21 PM
Is the Orbax working yet? :fingerscr

Winston
January 23rd, 2011, 04:54 AM
I think it is Hazel we have been pee free for a few days! but then again I am locking the door to the room she frequented! :thumbs up

hazelrunpack
January 23rd, 2011, 06:24 PM
I hope you've got the problem licked now! :goodvibes:

Winston
February 1st, 2011, 12:20 PM
Well the Culture and Sensitivity are back and Tabitha has ECOLI again. I am a tad frustrated because thats what she had in Aug/Sept. The vet is going to extend the round of Orbax that she is on to 6 weeks instead of 4 weeks.

They also want to pulsate her with the antibiotics...basically they explained it to me as they want me to give her a round of antibiotics monthly. It may be 3 for 3 days and then off for 3 days or it may be 1 week on 3 weeks off they are not 100% sure yet.

They indicated that because she suffers from a kidney insufficency that it is easier for her to contract it.

My concern about the antibiotics is "will she get immune to them" because we will be giving it to her all the time? I wish I could figure out exactly how she got it???

ancientgirl
February 1st, 2011, 12:39 PM
Winston, will something like Lysine help her?

Winston
February 1st, 2011, 12:47 PM
Not sure AG I have PM'd Growler hoping she knows about it?

sugarcatmom
February 1st, 2011, 01:01 PM
L-lysine won't help, but supplementing her wet food with 1/8 to 1/4 tsp D-mannose might. Also colloidal silver can be effective against e. coli. I know you were using these at one point, do you still have any in stock?

catlover2
February 1st, 2011, 01:24 PM
Sorry to hear Tabitha has e-coli again, but at least you know what it is. All the best in her treatment.

Winston
February 1st, 2011, 01:53 PM
SCM I do have the D mannose and silver from Bomber!

rainbow
February 1st, 2011, 07:37 PM
Aw Winston, I'm so sorry to hear about Tabitha :( ......I hope the AB's and SCM's suggestions are able to clear it up. :fingerscr :goodvibes: :grouphug:

growler~GateKeeper
February 2nd, 2011, 02:42 AM
Unfortuately I do know a bit about e coli bacterial infections - Duffy had a re-occurring infection :( Hers was a quite high count - the vet, homeopath & I were concerned, because of her having CRF, about it becoming a kidney infection luckily however it never traveled up from the urinary tract, hers also wasn't an actual bladder infection.

E coli is one of the most common bacterial infections in cats, e coli is already normally present in cats(dogs/human etc) large intestine & bowels & is one of the most common causes of feline UTIs.

Bacterial infections can cause diarreah etc, most common causes of infection are:
- infected dry food (either present at packaging or from growth by adding water/milk to dry food & letting it sit)
- infected raw/undercooked meat fed (obviously not all raw food has high/problematic bacteria)
- litterbox not cleaned thoroughly (cat steps in poop & then licks clean feet)
- dirty blankets etc not washed
- people not washing hands after handling strange animals, kids, food (not just meat but fruit/veggies can also have bacterial counts)
- people not washing hand after using the washroom/cleaning the litterbox
- diarreah not fully cleaned from the cats butt fur can also cause infection or re-infection either from licking or physical contact w/external urethral sphincter
- drinking/bathing in infected water
- Bacteria can also travel from the gut through to the blood stream which is then filtered, cleaned by the kidneys & dumped into the bladder for expelling & can set there.

Many antibiotic (Ab) treatment protocols are 10-14 days & test about 4 days before ending the Abs, even if this test shows negative results while still on Abs, you could still have a re-infection within a few days. E coli can take as little as 24 hours to incubate & multiply causing initial infection or reinfection.

If it gets a "foothold" either in the bladder or urinary tract it needs treatment immediately, sometimes if the antibiotics are stopped too soon (which is why they always say even if feeling better finish the prescription) it will re-establish from a tiny portion not yet killed, or there was some hidden in a crevice in the bladder/u-tract walls.

For cats with weakened immune systems, organ damage (kidneys/pancreas/liver etc), or reoccurances some vets will use a longer Ab protocol 3-4 or even 6-8 weeks, esp for kidney cats if there is risk of kidney infection (pyelonephritis).

The culture & sensitivity from the UA will tell which Abs this strain of e coli responds to, usually there are several to choose from & the vet will decide which to try. One of the most popular is a combo of two Amoxicillin & Clavulanic Acid commonly known as Clavamox - the vet formula is called ClavaSeptin, Clavamox has a wide safety margin meaning it is safe & can be used on kidney/geriatric/young patients etc. Whereas some Abs have been shown to be toxic to the kidneys, and some are also showing resistance to the bacteria they are supposed to fight & probably shouldn't be used or at least used in a longer duration/higher dose etc.

**Tabitha's case is different from Duffy's for a couple of reasons (T - cystitis/bladder infections, D - Toxin poisoning/CRF/hx of occasional euthyroid ss & low lymphocytes/IBD/Lymphoma) so her tests/responses will differ**

Duffy's case is not typical because she was also trying to fight off the start of lymphoma as well as managing CRF at the same time. Her 1st e coli infection was treated with human liquid clavamox - prescription to the pharmacy, c&s tested neg 4 days before the end of the script. When tested 3 weeks after the Ab she was still/re-infected - this test also stated "urinary inflammation with sepsis". This 2nd infection we treated with a homeopathic nosode & a homeopathic remedy, same thing seemed fine (no test while treated), so off it & tested 1 week later - still/re-infected. The 3rd time we used the vet formula ClavaSeptin she was 10 days into the script when I let her go, the Abs were helping a bit but the combination of a sepsis weakened immune system, kidney failure & lymphoma was too much.

(Sepsis can be an extremely serious condition, it's a whole body inflammatory state generally caused by bacterial infection and if there is any pre-existing condition to weaken the immune system, such as Duffy's kidney failure, mild IBD & the begining formation of lymphoma, it will take hold & be extremely difficult to fight. In an otherwise healthy individual it may not be too serious but needs treatment right away.)


As for Tabitha's current treatment protocol have you spoken to the vet about different Ab options? What were the other options listing on the c&s? Sometimes when 1 doesn't do the trick trying another just might as it may have a different spectrum that it covers.

A longer protocol is a good idea, as I've mentioned above especially with a re-occurance. :thumbs up

Pulsing the Ab (can also be done with certain supplements) basically stimulates the body's immune system into working at responding to repeated but not continuous actions. Less likely for her system to become immune to them this way.

If a continuous course of incorrect Ab is used and the bacteria is not erradicated it can lull the immune system into low response state & once the Abs are done any hint of bacteria can knock it down if it's not fully re-charged to normal.

:goodvibes:

Winston
February 2nd, 2011, 11:37 AM
Growler you are so awesome!! Thank you for everything you have taken the time to write up! I so appreciate it.

I also received an additional call from the vet as I had some concerns. Funny Growler gave me all the answers before the vet called me back! ! :thumbs up

Basically I couldnt figure out where it was coming from but I understand now.

They indicated that Tabitha's C&S they were able to grow the bacteria and that the Orbax antibiotic showed to be the best one to nip it in the bud!

So we are going 2 extra weeks of AB and then pulsating her to help with the infection.

Tabitha does have kidney issues so thats likely why we are seeing it again. They told me her Urine Specific Gravity was not good in the C&S and thats why they think that she is having trouble.,

I am going to take some proactive steps anyway. I will be replacing all the litter boxes, I am going to bleach the area. She doesnt have a bed per say of her own that she will sleep on but I do have some blankets that I use for her so I will be sure to stay on top of those. I dont know if I should attempt a bath or not but I will have to see!

Thanks again Growler!

Cindy

Love4himies
February 2nd, 2011, 12:02 PM
Sending lots of :goodvibes: your way.

sugarcatmom
February 2nd, 2011, 01:30 PM
I wouldn't stress yourself out trying to keep everything clean and sterilized, cause that would be pretty much impossible. E coli is always present, even in healthy animals. The reason it becomes a problem in cats with kidney insufficiency (or diabetes or hyperthyroid, etc) is because they have dilute urine, which is a much more hospitable environment for bacteria to flourish, rather than a normal cat's highly concentrated urine. That's why true urinary tract infections are actually quite rare in cats under 10 yrs old (contrary to popular belief), but become much more common in older cats, as a secondary symptom of some other primary health issue.

While Tabbitha is on antibiotics, it would be a really good idea to get some probiotics to help rebalance her intestinal flora that will be wiped out. And do try the D-Mannose, especially for long-term maintanence. It binds to E. Coli and prevents it from attaching to the lining of the bladder and urinary tract, without affecting the healthy bacteria in the cat's digestive tract.

Winston
February 2nd, 2011, 01:39 PM
SCM you described exactly how the vet described it. I guess I was worried that it is something I may have done by not cleaning out the litter box properly. I googled ecoli in cats and they indicated it was from uncleanliness in the litter box etc. The vet said no not likely but I started to think they were trying to be polite!

Here is my concern about the d-mannose and silver....I think I mentioned this at one point but Tabitha hardly eats anything. I throw more food out in the garbage than she actually eats. I start off with a teaspoon in the morning! yes only a teaspoon because she will only eat maybe if I am lucky half of that. I do this for her whenever she wants it..she will cry for me to come in the kitchen and give it to her fresh...but if I leave it in her dish she will not eat it?? so back to my concern...how much of the d-mannose and silver can I put in a teaspoon of food?

I am fortunate that I have figured out a tricky way to pill her with the Orbax ad that is working so far??? but the other I have no clue??

chico2
February 2nd, 2011, 04:17 PM
Aww Winston,I :pray:Tabitha will be ok,it's such a worry,but you have gotten some great advice:thumbs up
I say,Thank Dog for Growler and SCM,they are both so very helpful:grouphug:
:goodvibes:for little Tabitha and you:grouphug:

sugarcatmom
February 2nd, 2011, 07:09 PM
SCM you described exactly how the vet described it. I guess I was worried that it is something I may have done by not cleaning out the litter box properly.

Oh gosh no. Even if you bought a brand new litter box every single day, that wouldn't necessarily prevent further UTIs from occurring (although it is a good idea to get a new box about once a year, but that has more to do with retained odours than anything else).

so back to my concern...how much of the d-mannose and silver can I put in a teaspoon of food?

How about, instead of putting it in her regular food, you find some sort of treat that she really likes and mix in the D-mannose (which has a slightly sweet flavour that most cats don't have a problem with). Has she ever had plain chicken baby food? Does she like yogurt or butter or salmon juice? Plain vanilla ice cream? Since you only need to give a very small amount (1/8 tsp twice a day to start), it shouldn't be too hard to get some in her. Easier than the antibiotics!

As for the silver, that has virtually no flavour and should be very easy to mix in her wet food or put a dropper-ful in her water dish (although she'll get more of it if it's in her food).

Cats typically don't have a problem with probiotics either, which tend to have a mild milky taste. If you get a high potency one like Natural Factor's Ultimate Multi or MegaFood's Megaflora, then the amount you use is so miniscule (a wee pinch a couple times a day) that it's just highly unlikely they could even detect it. The Megaflora one might also help remove some of the toxin buildup due to the renal insufficiency, as it contains the same strains of bacteria as the way overpriced Azodyl.

Good luck!