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Chronic ear infection..

Luvmypitgirls
July 20th, 2009, 04:01 AM
Kato, (my rottiboy) has yet another ear infection :sad: Seriously I am at my wits end with this.
My vet has put him on various antibiotics over the past couple years, and while there is usually a small improvement it's usually short lived.
We have changed his diet many times over the years, being sure to avoid ingredients which could increase the chance of ear infections such as beetroot.
I clean his ears and put in his drops twice a day every day, and each and every time I take out lots of this tar like substance. When he shakes his head, sometimes big globs of this crap comes flying out.
I have taken him to a different vet for a second opinion, and his opinon was to put him on the same antibiotics my vet has tried over and over.
I don't know what to do anymore. If you even reach out and he thinks you are going to touch his ears he yelps and flinches. My heart breaks for him, because I've done everything my vet has told me to do and this keeps reoccurring over and over and over.
Has anyone else here have or had a dog with chronic ear infections? Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get this to stop? Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you.

rainbow
July 20th, 2009, 04:08 AM
Awww, poor Kato :sad: and it must be so frustrating for you as well. :grouphug:

Has the vet done a yeast culture and a bacterial culture & sensitivity test?

Does Kato have any known allergies?

growler~GateKeeper
July 20th, 2009, 04:18 AM
Have you considered a homeopath vet?

Luvmypitgirls
July 20th, 2009, 04:22 AM
Awww, poor Kato :sad: and it must be so frustrating for you as well. :grouphug:

Has the vet done a yeast culture and a bacterial culture & sensitivity test?

Does Kato have any known allergies?


He has done cultures, and more just a couple weeks ago. I was called to come in and pick up new antibiotics, but my vet was in surgery when I got there so one of his tech's just told me it's another infection gave me the meds and told me to have a nice day :frustrated:

Kato doesn't have any known allergies, but I was told Rotti's are actually sensitive to things such as beetroot and to avoid them if possible, so I do.

I don't know if it could be the fact there is a lot of construction going on around here and maybe there's dust blowing around getting in his ears ...I'm just confuzzled to all heck

rainbow
July 20th, 2009, 04:25 AM
A culture & sensitivy test is more involved than an ordinary culture as far as I know.

rainbow
July 20th, 2009, 04:29 AM
Here's some info .....chronic ear infections is about halfway down the page ...

http://animalpetdoctor.homestead.com/Ears.html

Luvmypitgirls
July 20th, 2009, 04:32 AM
I culture & sensitivy test is more involved than an ordinary culture as far as I know.

I'm taking Kato back in on Wednesday so I'm going to request a yeast culture and sensitivity test.
I believe he has done a yeast culture awhile back but to be honest I can't remember.
I'm just hoping it's not cancer :pray:
I found out that one of his littermates passed away from cancer just before last Christmas.:sad:

Luvmypitgirls
July 20th, 2009, 04:40 AM
Thanks for the link, the picture under ear allergies looks just like Kato's, but Kato's is much worse:sad:

rainbow
July 20th, 2009, 04:41 AM
I don't think it would be cancer. Is Kato lethargic at all or is there any dry, harsh feeling to his coat or any thinning? Any skin changes to skin colour? If so, get him tested for hypothyroidism as chronic ear infections can be a symptom as well.

Luvmypitgirls
July 20th, 2009, 04:54 AM
I don't think it would be cancer. Is Kato lethargic at all or is there any dry, harsh feeling to his coat or any thinning? Any skin changes to skin colour? If so, get him tested for hypothyroidism as chronic ear infections can be a symptom as well.

Nope no change in his coat at all, infact since I've changed him to Orijen his coat has never looked healthier. No skin problems, no changes in skin color.
He shakes his head constantly tho, and Abby is always trying to lick his ears, which I put a stop to immediately.

rainbow
July 20th, 2009, 05:17 AM
A culture & sensitivy test is more involved than an ordinary culture as far as I know.

I'm so tired that now I'm second guessing myself and am not sure if this is the name of the test that's more involved. :shrug:

I know there is a specific test that is more involved than a regular culture test so I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong. :o

breeze
July 20th, 2009, 09:09 AM
LMP
a friend was having problems with her dog's ear all the time, infections, very dirty ears even though she was cleaning them. she was at the vets almost every week. she put her dog on "solid Gold" Seameal powder, twice a day, and she found a big improvement. after about 4 days she saw that her dog was not shaking his head as often and not scratching as often on his ears. she still put drops in them twice a day and cleaned his ears every day but the stuff inside was reduced alot.
I'm not saying that it will cure the problem, but it might help.

Arch was having very dirty ears even though I was cleaning them also so I tried it .( I know in my case it's not the same as an infection)

Arch and Bree has been on this ever since.

http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=36&code=591

Luvmypitgirls
July 20th, 2009, 11:58 AM
Thank you Breeze, I'm willing to try anything at this point. I'm going to see if they have this product where I buy my dog food.
I've decided to take Kato to another vet, for a third opinion too.

kandy
July 20th, 2009, 12:02 PM
Poor guy. I hope you can determine what is causing the problem.

My mom's rotti also had problems with her ears. Their ear canals are big enough to drive a semi through, so everything and anything can get in there.

I know when we were having problems with Parker's diet (son's newf) - his ears were constantly gross. Didn't matter how much you cleaned them.

luckypenny
July 20th, 2009, 01:01 PM
Penny used to have a persistent fungal yeast infection. The only med that finally cleared it up was Surolan drops (we did 2 rounds of treatment). What I discovered, to my surprise, was that cleaning her ears with a solution actually made the problem much worse (could be because of the perfume/chemicals in the solution :shrug:?). Cleaning with vinegar and water didn't help either. I'm not sure if change of diet played a major role ie. switched to raw but, her infection has never returned. We check her ears almost daily and it's been about 2 years since I've even had to wash them...they're squeaky clean all the time.

What meds have been prescribed to Kato? It's crucial that the vet knows exactly what kind of bacteria/fungus he's dealing with in order to to treat him with the appropriate meds. :fingerscr this new vet will get to the bottom of this and that Kato gets some relief asap :goodvibes:

rainbow
July 20th, 2009, 02:03 PM
Just sending some more good wishes your way for poor Kato. :fingerscr :goodvibes: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Chronic problems are always so hard on folks that care so much about their pets. :grouphug:

I hope the new vet will be able to help. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

hazelrunpack
July 20th, 2009, 04:18 PM
Sending some :goodvibes: from this direction, too, LMPG. Poor Kato! And poor you--it's so hard to see them with a problem and not be able to help. :grouphug: I hope you can get to the bottom of it and he gets some relief soon!

growler~GateKeeper
July 20th, 2009, 11:04 PM
Have you considered a homeopath vet?

LMPG If you've already been to 2 different vets & had meds prescribed twice that still aren't working and Kato's ears are getting worse - I would look for a homeopath vet to get to the root of the problem & fix it for good :)

:goodvibes:

Gail P
July 21st, 2009, 12:16 AM
What kind of drops are you putting in daily? I once had a dog that got a lot of ear infections and my vet gave me an ear cleansing solution that just had to be used 2-3 times a week. It was supposed to lower the pH level in the ear and make it harder for infections to develop. (it wasn't used to treat infections, but to prevent them) I had to squirt it in, rub it around well and let the dog shake it out again. Seemed to work. Actually come to think of it, I've had a couple of dogs over the years that have been treated the same way. I can't remember the name of the first solution that I got from the vet, but I think the second one was called Epi-Otic or something similar.

breeze
July 22nd, 2009, 09:53 AM
How is Kato doing???
are his ears any better??

rainbow
July 22nd, 2009, 01:41 PM
LMPG, good luck at the vet today. :grouphug: :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Luvmypitgirls
July 22nd, 2009, 02:38 PM
Penny used to have a persistent fungal yeast infection. The only med that finally cleared it up was Surolan drops (we did 2 rounds of treatment). What I discovered, to my surprise, was that cleaning her ears with a solution actually made the problem much worse (could be because of the perfume/chemicals in the solution :shrug:?). Cleaning with vinegar and water didn't help either. I'm not sure if change of diet played a major role ie. switched to raw but, her infection has never returned. We check her ears almost daily and it's been about 2 years since I've even had to wash them...they're squeaky clean all the time.

What meds have been prescribed to Kato? It's crucial that the vet knows exactly what kind of bacteria/fungus he's dealing with in order to to treat him with the appropriate meds. :fingerscr this new vet will get to the bottom of this and that Kato gets some relief asap :goodvibes:

At the moment Kato is on Surolan drops as well, and an ear wash provided by the vet, it has done nothing to improve the situation.:sad:

Luvmypitgirls
July 22nd, 2009, 02:43 PM
What kind of drops are you putting in daily? I once had a dog that got a lot of ear infections and my vet gave me an ear cleansing solution that just had to be used 2-3 times a week. It was supposed to lower the pH level in the ear and make it harder for infections to develop. (it wasn't used to treat infections, but to prevent them) I had to squirt it in, rub it around well and let the dog shake it out again. Seemed to work. Actually come to think of it, I've had a couple of dogs over the years that have been treated the same way. I can't remember the name of the first solution that I got from the vet, but I think the second one was called Epi-Otic or something similar.

The bottle of wash my vet gave me doesn't have a label, I watched him pour it into a couple of squirt bottles for me to take, he never told me the name of it, just said use it twice a day for two weeks, then once a day for two weeks, which we have done and things seem to improve slightly but then three days after the last wash, it's back:sad:

Our appointment is at 4:20 today, so I'm hoping we will find some relief for Kato.

Luvmypitgirls
July 22nd, 2009, 02:43 PM
LMPG, good luck at the vet today. :grouphug: :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Thank you:)

Gail P
July 22nd, 2009, 02:57 PM
...he never told me the name of it, just said use it twice a day for two weeks, then once a day for two weeks...


The cleanser I was using was not something to be weaned off of after a period of time. The idea was to use it a couple of times a week to maintain a lower pH in the ear so that infections could not develop as easily. Maybe an idea to ask your vet about?

ancientgirl
July 22nd, 2009, 02:58 PM
LMPG, I'd read a while back about coconut oil being good for things like ear mites and infections. I know it's in one of these threads, let me see if I can find it.

Here's a thread I found:

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=43716&highlight=coconut+oil

Okay, here's a link for a product one of the members added
Only Natural pet store (http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/product_detail.aspx?item_guid=c89db8e9-3de0-407e-a89a-5135ea070a47)

Luvmypitgirls
July 22nd, 2009, 03:05 PM
The cleanser I was using was not something to be weaned off of after a period of time. The idea was to use it a couple of times a week to maintain a lower pH in the ear so that infections could not develop as easily. Maybe an idea to ask your vet about?

Thank you for the suggestion, I will definately bring it up with the vet today!

LMPG, I'd read a while back about coconut oil being good for things like ear mites and infections. I know it's in one of these threads, let me see if I can find it.

Thank you AG, I'm willing to try anything .

luckypenny
July 22nd, 2009, 04:24 PM
At the moment Kato is on Surolan drops as well, and an ear wash provided by the vet, it has done nothing to improve the situation.:sad:

The Surolan won't be effective if it gets washed out by the ear wash :shrug:. Sorta like putting an anti-fungal cream on your foot and then washing it off with soap and water :o. It's a med that must stay in the ears.

Luvmypitgirls
July 22nd, 2009, 07:14 PM
The Surolan won't be effective if it gets washed out by the ear wash :shrug:. Sorta like putting an anti-fungal cream on your foot and then washing it off with soap and water :o. It's a med that must stay in the ears.

We do the wash first then apply the Surolan, first thing in the morning and then again before bed.

We went to our appt, only to be told that an emergency came in and that we would be bumped back at least a couple hours. So I rescheduled for 11:15 tomorrow morning.
I heard ppl screaming and crying in the exam room, I couldn't take it, I started crying too, so I asked to reschedule and they were very accomodating.
So back again we go in the morning.

:pray: those ppl in the exam room will be ok, but something tells me they are in for a rough time:sad:

ancientgirl
July 22nd, 2009, 07:23 PM
LMPG, I took Kiska in once and had to leave her because two emergency's came in. One, the poor dog died in the waiting room. I left Kiska because she was having really bad diarrhea, but I had to leave. I felt so bad for those poor dogs that were brought in.

Hopefully, tomorrow they will be able to help. Did you manage to have a look at the link for the coconut oil?

Luvmypitgirls
July 22nd, 2009, 07:35 PM
LMPG, I took Kiska in once and had to leave her because two emergency's came in. One, the poor dog died in the waiting room. I left Kiska because she was having really bad diarrhea, but I had to leave. I felt so bad for those poor dogs that were brought in.

Hopefully, tomorrow they will be able to help. Did you manage to have a look at the link for the coconut oil?

They didn't offer to keep Kato, if they had I probably would've refused to be honest. Kato, has issues...without going into too much detail, he doesn't do well with ppl he doesn't know, especially men. It's something we've been working on for a long time but we still have a long way to go.
Of course if Kato was in critical condition I would have but I didn't think it necessary for this situation.

Yes thank you for posting the link, I'm going to try and find some, would a reputable Pet store carry it? Or do I have to find a health food store?
I'm definately going to try this, it certainly couldn't hurt. Thank you again so much for the link:)

ancientgirl
July 22nd, 2009, 07:42 PM
They didn't offer to keep Kato, if they had I probably would've refused to be honest. Kato, has issues...without going into too much detail, he doesn't do well with ppl he doesn't know, especially men. It's something we've been working on for a long time but we still have a long way to go.
Of course if Kato was in critical condition I would have but I didn't think it necessary for this situation.

Yes thank you for posting the link, I'm going to try and find some, would a reputable Pet store carry it? Or do I have to find a health food store?
I'm definately going to try this, it certainly couldn't hurt. Thank you again so much for the link:)

Kiska doesn't do well outside home, but I felt they could at least run tests on her and give her some medicine so she could get some relief.

You can find that at a good health food store. I found some at a vitamin store.

Luvmypitgirls
July 22nd, 2009, 10:11 PM
Kiska doesn't do well outside home, but I felt they could at least run tests on her and give her some medicine so she could get some relief.

You can find that at a good health food store. I found some at a vitamin store.

I understand what you mean AG, I didn't mean to sound like I was questioning your decision, I hope I didn't come across that way.
For me, it just seemed better bringing him home, since we got another appt in the morning.
I know he's uncomfortable, but leaving him would've stressed him out even more, and they didn't offer to keep him, as he isn't considered critical and he's in no immediate threat.

I will have to look up a good health food store when I'm in the city tomorrow, I'm also going to run the idea of virgin coconut oil past the vet to see what he thinks. I'm just curious, because most vets I've encountered don't agree with "home remedies" or anything outside of their medical arsenal. So it will be interesting to see how he reacts.

mastifflover
July 22nd, 2009, 10:19 PM
Buddy :rip: had chronic ear infections my vet finally found the magic one for him and it is not cheap but it worked better than anyone that we had tried previously. He was on Baytril drops and Baytril tablets and within 2 days of starting them I was able to touch his ears and the head shaking was down to a minimum. Buddy did have surgery on his ears to clean them out because there was guck so far in the canals that it was just a breeding ground for infections. By the way I did not let his ears get like this he had this problem when I adopted him but the surgery really made a difference. He would still get infections but not often, but I had to be diligent about keeping them clea. I did try the homeopathy way but with the severity of the infections it did not work he needed antibiotics

Luvmypitgirls
July 23rd, 2009, 04:37 AM
Buddy :rip: had chronic ear infections my vet finally found the magic one for him and it is not cheap but it worked better than anyone that we had tried previously. He was on Baytril drops and Baytril tablets and within 2 days of starting them I was able to touch his ears and the head shaking was down to a minimum. Buddy did have surgery on his ears to clean them out because there was guck so far in the canals that it was just a breeding ground for infections. By the way I did not let his ears get like this he had this problem when I adopted him but the surgery really made a difference. He would still get infections but not often, but I had to be diligent about keeping them clea. I did try the homeopathy way but with the severity of the infections it did not work he needed antibiotics

Kato has been on a few antibiotics, to no avail. I have always been dilligent about my pets hygene, including cleaning their ears. Why Kato's ears are so severe I can't figure out.
I am going to ask about this Baytril you mention, I don't think we've had that one yet. If he needs to have a surgery then so be it, I will pay anything to have my baby boy happy and healthy and comfortable.

ancientgirl
July 23rd, 2009, 08:30 AM
I understand what you mean AG, I didn't mean to sound like I was questioning your decision, I hope I didn't come across that way.
For me, it just seemed better bringing him home, since we got another appt in the morning.
I know he's uncomfortable, but leaving him would've stressed him out even more, and they didn't offer to keep him, as he isn't considered critical and he's in no immediate threat.

No, I didn't think you were questioning me. You guys know I'm a worry wart anyway, LOL. But had she not been having the poops I would have brought her home. I just felt if I took her home, without being seen she would get worse.

I will have to look up a good health food store when I'm in the city tomorrow, I'm also going to run the idea of virgin coconut oil past the vet to see what he thinks. I'm just curious, because most vets I've encountered don't agree with "home remedies" or anything outside of their medical arsenal. So it will be interesting to see how he reacts.

I had asked my vet once about it and she said she didn't think it would do any harm, so she was fine with it. But, my vet is really open to alternative stuff. She's even been recommending the sulpher soap I used on Vlad to other clients. Have you tried that? Maybe if you could get a towel and soap it up and clean his ears with it? Ask your vet about that.

rainbow
July 23rd, 2009, 03:09 PM
How did the vet appt go today? :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Luvmypitgirls
July 23rd, 2009, 04:31 PM
How did the vet appt go today? :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Whew! What a busy day we've had so far.
Ok so the appointment went really well, the vet took cultures to have sent away for testing (cost a small fortune, but he's worth it).
He then gave me an ear wash probiotic solution, he was given three injections, one for pain relief, two with antibiotics and anti~inflammatory.
He also gave us two types of oral medications and more Surolan drops.
This is the treatment he suggests until we get the culture results back.
We have also booked an appt for Kato, to go in after we move to have his ears surgically cleaned, and by then we will have the results of the cultures and can plan a preventitive treatment and or a management treatment.

The sad part of the whole appt, was the vet and I did the wash and moments later my sweet boy was slamming his head into the wall, and I mean slamming. He put his head to the floor and ran himself head first into the wall and then just sat there swinging and banging his head. I burst into tears, I have never seen him look so desperate:sad:

When I got home I applied the drops, gave him his oral meds, and shortly thereafter he was laying in the hall, with a look of relief on his face. This is the calmest I have seen him in days.

I'm not sure how long it will take to get the cultures back, he said they will be sent to some place in Saskatchewan.

I just hope they come back soon, so we know exactly what it is we are dealing with, and can develop a more concrete plan.

Btw, just as I had figured, the vet wasn't too enthusiastic about the coconut oil, but after he has his surgery and finished any meds, I am going to take him to a homeopathic vet and see what they can offer, it can't hurt to look into it.

ancientgirl
July 23rd, 2009, 09:05 PM
Poor Kato! I can understand you getting upset at seeing him like he was. I've had moments like that with Vlad at the vet and it's heartbreaking.

I hope you can finally figure out what's wrong with him. :pray:

Luvmypitgirls
July 24th, 2009, 01:20 AM
Poor Kato! I can understand you getting upset at seeing him like he was. I've had moments like that with Vlad at the vet and it's heartbreaking.

I hope you can finally figure out what's wrong with him. :pray:

Me too. I will say tho that between the injections and the oral meds I gave him, he seems much more relaxed and comfortable. I know he's not cured but at least he's not acting neurotic this evening.
He's even being much more affectionate, for the past couple weeks he's been shying away from us, of course because his ears hurt so bad. So I think he's been given a little relief and that makes me happy, but not as happy as I'll be when we get this under control once and for all.

rainbow
July 24th, 2009, 02:01 PM
Glad to hear that Kato has gotten a little relief. :thumbs up

Poor boy :grouphug: .....hope you get to the root of the problem soon. :fingerscr :goodvibes: