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breeder wont pay for stud, what do you think ?

mollysmommy1980
July 10th, 2009, 08:31 PM
I have a question I am just looking for peoples opinion on the issue at hand.
A few years ago my male chihuahua was mated with a female chihuahua, owned by a friend. The litter arrived with six puppies, the arrangement was pick of the litter, when the litter arrived we picked a long hair sandy colored female. A year later my male and the female mated again. A litter arrived with three puppies, although one was born dead. Again we took pick of the litter, which is another long hair sandy colored female. Both these dogs were given to homes of family members, and are well taken care of...A few months back we allowed the dogs to mate again. This times we had problems right away. This time the female stayed at my house, which was suppose to be one day, she ended up staying at my house for three days, they finally called on the second day and said they would come the next night and get her... In the mean time the female refused to go outside and proceeded to urinate all over the house.Which of course my male dog started to as well. The female dog went home and i had to rent carpet washer to clean the urine smell out. The female had peed on furniture ( i know it was her my male cant jump high enough to get up on the couch) the breeders didnt call to advise me if there was puppies on the way, eventually i called and she told me the pups had been born three days earlier... This time four pups were born... although three were born dead... only one survived a brown and white male. The breeder also says she would like to keep them. Meanwhile her husband has said he is going to "pay his rent with it" Today is the 6 week mark, after being ignored for six weeks, we drove to there house, where we told a babysitter( adult lady) that we would like to have our puppy... Of course knowing she wouldnt give it to us simply knowing it would at least let them know we were serious... she called the breeder at work came back and told us " the breeder said dont give it to them Im not there" she then took our phone number and said she didnt know when the breeder would be home, but either way they were going out after for some errands so to not bother coming back over.... A few hours later the breeder has called and said she decided she is keeping it, its her sons dog they named it rocky, and she wasnt paying for it..... SO WHAT DO WE DO NOW.... we have told her we will be taking her to court

Etown_Chick
July 10th, 2009, 08:36 PM
Walk away. Just my two cents, since you asked. I don't see what you have to gain, especially since it sounds like there was no contract with this mating, verbal or otherwise.

14+kitties
July 10th, 2009, 08:41 PM
Get your dog fixed? :shrug:

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=59820

Did you clear your poll with the Administrator of this forum?

mollysmommy1980
July 10th, 2009, 08:46 PM
actually we did plan on fixing him last year the breeder begged us to mate them one more time since the other puppies had been so good, again breeding is a choice, that people make for the dogs but it is a personal or family decision.

mollysmommy1980
July 10th, 2009, 08:48 PM
there was a verbal contract and passed practice twice before

babymomma
July 10th, 2009, 10:06 PM
A few questions

Are the bitch and stud championed, health certified dogs?

Are these puppies Show prospects?

The pup that you want, Is it the perfect dog to represent its breed in a show? Would it be worth alot in the showing world?

How big is your male and her female (wweight)

If she had troubles in her pregnancy before (1 stillborn) why was she bred again?

Jim Hall
July 10th, 2009, 10:09 PM
dont breed or buy when shelter pets die so basically your paying your rent by breeding?

Winston
July 10th, 2009, 10:22 PM
If you read the rules of the forum when you joined you would clearly know that this is a PRO SPAY & NEUTER BOARD so please follow the advice you have been given and fix your pup!

onster
July 10th, 2009, 10:49 PM
Honestly I would just walk away as previously suggested.

You aren't emotionally attached to this pup yet, you didn't even know it existed for a while really. Financially, you would probably have to put in alot of $$ to sue her and probably not getting anything in return. Also, if she was taking good care of the mom, all the extra food, vet costs etc etc would quickly add up so its not like she didnt incur costs.

So that was from the financial perspective...on the other hand,,,what were you guys thinking breeding her again with all the stillborns??? I think mother nature was trying to tell you she couldn't handle it :sad: Please have your guys neutered/spayed (especiallllllly to avoid relative matings) and strongly suggest that those who took the pups you chose (the females) to have them spayed also. Really it is in their and your best interest. Please check the thread posted by 14+

Love4himies
July 10th, 2009, 11:05 PM
Walk away and get your dog fixed.

Shaykeija
July 11th, 2009, 12:09 AM
not saying a word.....

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m51/Rickandliz3/wtf.gif

LavenderRott
July 11th, 2009, 12:42 AM
If you read the rules of the forum when you joined you would clearly know that this is a PRO SPAY & NEUTER BOARD so please follow the advice you have been given and fix your pup!

The rules don't say you can't ask a question - just that the tone of the board is pro spay/neuter.

Most ethical stud dog owners get paid up front with some sort of clause that pertains to what should happen should the bitch not get pregnant. Rarely is pick of the litter offered anymore - especially in small dogs as size and survivablity of the litter is more often than not just one or two puppies. Personally, if I was a breeder, I would promptly remove a bitch from my breeding program that whelped two litters with dead puppies. This seems to be a fairly clear indication that something is seriously wrong.

Unless you want to hire a lawyer, I would say - you lose. You certainly can't prove anything about a verbal contract - it is all he said/she said. And really all you are out is your dog's sperm. Unless your dog is a multi-titled dog (both in conformation and obedience), said sperm really isn't worth much.

Winston
July 11th, 2009, 07:17 AM
Lavenderott it was my polite way of advising the OP they were headed for a heated discussion.

Cindy

Melinda
July 11th, 2009, 07:25 AM
fix your male and walk away, next time you want a pup for a friend or family, adopt one .................

Golden Girls
July 11th, 2009, 08:31 AM
My opinions: An arrangement isn't a contract, walk away. Ask your friend to please spay her female. Three litters :eek: give her a break. Your right breeding is a choice but when you have rip 4 dead pup's, this friend/breeder doesn't sound too knowledable nor responsible. LavenderRott's right said sperm really isn't worth much you might now want to reconsider and neuter your male.

Maybe you could refer family members to a shelter/rescue? So many animals are euthanized every minute from lack of homes.

This time four pups were born... although three were born dead... only one survived a brown and white male. The breeder also says she would like to keep themI'll assume you meant to say keep him

The OP has a right to ask anything she wants just like you and I. If you don't want to respond don't. The tone of this board might be pro spay / neuter but just because some might be in rescue doesn't give anyone a right to be rude or argue :shrug:

Winston
July 11th, 2009, 08:39 AM
Where was I rude? and where did I say that didnt have a right to an opinion? They have asked a question and received some answers / advice?

(I actually thought that I was helping the other person from getting bashed at some point on this thread! )

No big deal we all have an opinion I guess I need to keep mine to myself!

aslan
July 11th, 2009, 08:48 AM
Winston, you didn't say anything wrong, nor were you rude. Funny how threads like this the people in rescue are the ones who get bashed.

OP please neuter your dog. You have no way to proove that you even bred your male with their female this time around. I agree with the others who stated when puppies started being born dead she shouldn't have been bred again. If the females owner knew anything about proper breeding they would have known that the amount of still borns usually increases per litter. Walk away, neuter your male and move on.

Golden Girls
July 11th, 2009, 08:50 AM
Winston, you didn't say anything wrong, nor were you rude. Funny how threads like this the people in rescue are the ones who get bashed.Whose bashing rescues? I was referring to this statement: Lavenderott it was my polite way of advising the OP they were headed for a heated discussion.

aslan
July 11th, 2009, 08:52 AM
My opinions: An arrangement isn't a contract, walk away. Ask your friend to please spay her female. Three litters :eek: give her a break. Your right breeding is a choice but when you have rip 4 dead pup's, this friend/breeder doesn't sound too knowledable nor responsible. LavenderRott's right said sperm really isn't worth much you might now want to reconsider and neuter your male.

Maybe you could refer family members to a shelter/rescue? So many animals are euthanized every minute from lack of homes.

I'll assume you meant to say keep him

The OP has a right to ask anything she wants just like you and I. If you don't want to respond don't. The tone of this board might be pro spay / neuter but just because some might be in rescue doesn't give anyone a right to be rude or argue :shrug:

i consider this a bash, and no i'm not in rescue. Now can we go back to the topic please.

Golden Girls
July 11th, 2009, 08:54 AM
ok whatever

Winston
July 11th, 2009, 10:55 AM
hey GG No big deal we all have an opinion ! and sometimes thats how we get off track! no worries anyone!

mollysmommy1980
July 11th, 2009, 02:28 PM
I didnt mean to start what seems to be arguments really, I have some on the board state isnt a pro s/n website and then others get angry and say it is.... I understand where everyone comes from but please keep an open mind,just because you would like to see something happen doesnt mean everyone else sees it that same way.
To Jim Hall. Perhaps you should read what I originally wrote again. I didnt say I was paying my rent by breeding, as I have never taken a cent I have merely had pick of the litter, for two family members who wanted chihuahuas. And the two female puppies were not bred and are treated like a family member not something to make money off at all..... * in fact it costs alot to have them* As for the female losing puppies in previous litter that is something i said before.... but how am i to control what someone does with thier dog * exactly the way you cant control who s/n;s the dogs they have*
Again I was simply looking for some advice from other pet owners, not trying to cause problems or stress for anyone who takes part in these bulletin boards.

Happy pet parenting,

LavenderRott
July 11th, 2009, 03:11 PM
As for the female losing puppies in previous litter that is something i said before.... but how am i to control what someone does with thier dog * exactly the way you cant control who s/n;s the dogs they have*


While you may have no control over what other people do with their pets - you certainly do have control over what you do with yours. One "condition" that can cause puppies to die at birth (or shortly after) is canine herpes. Much like the human version of herpes, it is passed from dog to dog during sex.

Please - don't feel bad about causing any tension here. How different members approach breeding questions here is generally a hot topic and while I, personally, may agree with the spay/neuter mantra of most members - sometimes it only takes a minute to educate.

Frenchy
July 11th, 2009, 05:18 PM
but how am i to control what someone does with thier dog

you're the one allowing your "stud" to breed this female .... so just say no and get him fixed !!!

you're asking if you should sue ? and then you say it's not about money .... yea .... right .... :rolleyes:

lUvMyLaB<3
July 11th, 2009, 08:48 PM
If there is only one puppy, what are you asking for? Their female has gone through way more than your male, I don't understand why you think they should be left without anything.

A breeding fee should only be paid if their is a successful breeding, and I consider this far from successful, three were born dead, their female has been through too much, your dog is not out anything, enough is enough, move on.

Your dog does not owe you anything, you are not put out by this breeding, unless all that matters to you is the money your dog could have made you, let it go. know you say you usually want a puppy, but after what they have been through, and raising of the one and only survivor, are you asking they give that pup up? I think that is not right at all.

Of coarse this could be different if your dog is a champion, has mega points, has been tested for all possible health issues ect.. If you put Loeads of money campaigning and testing your dog, then maybe you have a reason, you would be investing a lot of money into the breeding, can you make your situation more clear?

If you did not have a contract, and you just have a normal, lovable pet dog, let enough is enogh, you have done enough already, that female should not have been bred, look what happened this time, because no one listened to her in the first place. This is traumatic for the dog, that female dog suffered, looks like her owners only see dollar signs when they look at her, poor thing.

Please, stop breeding, there is only one pup. don't take it from them, and if you are wanting money, I am not sure what the money is for, unless you invested in the breeding, you are just trying to make money off your family member, and that is not right. Get him fixed, let him be your best friend. and PLEASE try and convince the female owners to not do this again, the mother dog cannot go through this again, it is cruel. If you know someone in your family that needs a pup, I am sure there are lots of people that will help you find one that is in dire need of a good home. Good luck moving forward with your dogs.

mafiaprincess
July 13th, 2009, 10:23 AM
A good breeder and stud dog owner will also have a clause as to what happens for a small litter. A friend's last JRT litter, the agreement was that one puppy was considered half a litter. And there could be a rebreed in future for half the stud fee. No living puppies was a free rebreed in future.

Unless you are having phenominal pups out of this pairing, I don't see why you'd do it three tiems unless you are breeding just pets together for the sake of wanting puppies.

kandy
July 13th, 2009, 03:22 PM
Well I am definitely pro spay/neuter. I believe that unless your dog is titled, there is no reason to breed. And even then, the dogs should both pass the most rigorous health testing before being bred.

Breeding small dogs, like chihuahua's, is a very risky proposition. Females can easily lose their own lives trying to give birth. Perhaps you aren't using your male as a way to make money, but IMO they see their female as an income source rather than a pet. You may not be able to convince them not to use their dog as a source of income, but you can certainly stop helping them to do that. If you plan to continue to help them put their female at risk so that you can provide your family members with puppies, then I would suggest you get a written contract that addresses all of your concerns.