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Vaccinations - are they needed?

Sunkist/Winnie
August 13th, 2004, 01:19 PM
I've seen the issue of the necessity of vacinations mentioned quite a few times in various threads - not wanting to highjack anyone's thread I thought it might be best to start a new one...

I have two cats. I keep them indoors most of the time. When they do go out they are supervised in my back yard. I do get them vacinated because I thought it was the respnisble thing to do as an owner. They do seem sleepy (extra sleepy that is) after we've vistied the vet but they've never vomited, had the runs, or a reaction at the injection site so I never questioned that maybe they weren't necessary.

Other than the rabies shot which is required in some places by law what are people's opinions on getting vacinations for their pets? Are they necessary?

Thanks for your input...I've found this board to be very informative!

Goldenmom
August 13th, 2004, 01:34 PM
If you do a search above and type in "vaccinations" this topic has been discussed at length within the last couple months.

Heather and her 3 Golden Girls

heidiho
August 13th, 2004, 01:36 PM
Better safe than sorry.

Luba
August 13th, 2004, 02:41 PM
I disagree Heidi. Over vaccinating weakens the immune system, causes cancer tumours and adrenal problems as well as other exposures to viral infections. There are tests called 'titer' tests that you can do annually to see if your pet still needs the vaccine.

As Heather says this has been discussed in great length in other threads. IF anyone is interested a simple search will pull them all up.

heidiho
August 13th, 2004, 02:43 PM
When i got my pup i got him all the shots they need.parvo,rabies,distemper.And when i get another dog he or she will get all of them also,just me personal beliefs..

Luba
August 13th, 2004, 02:47 PM
FIRST vaccinations ARE required subsequent annual ones are not as the antibodies are still in the dogs system.

Princesss04
August 13th, 2004, 02:48 PM
Heidi they need to have all their shots when they are puppies but they are talking about ANNUAL shots. You need to have them all when they are little though I agree with that. :D

Goldenmom
August 13th, 2004, 03:32 PM
I would like to caution people reading this thread that the opinions stated here are the people's opinions only and they should do their own research and talk to their vet etc.

A lot of different considerations need to be done when approaching this issue.

Heather

heidiho
August 13th, 2004, 03:41 PM
My opinion only,we always had our dogs done every year,never had problems,that is how i was raised with our pets,and will continue so yearly when i get another pet..MY OPINION ONLY,Goldenmom you are right in what you said,consult your own vet//

Luba
August 13th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Yup consult your vet at which time you will be promptly told to vaccinate every year LMFHO

heidiho
August 13th, 2004, 03:44 PM
So what is your opinion Luba??

Luba
August 13th, 2004, 03:49 PM
I am not sure I understand your question Heidi. I responded to this thread

Over vaccinating weakens the immune system, causes cancer tumours and adrenal problems as well as other exposures to viral infections. There are tests called 'titer' tests that you can do annually to see if your pet still needs the vaccine.

heidiho
August 13th, 2004, 03:49 PM
OH!! Sorry..

Goldenmom
August 13th, 2004, 03:50 PM
Yup consult your vet at which time you will be promptly told to vaccinate every year LMFHO

Thats not true Luba. A decent vet would discuss the pros and cons with you and let you decide for yourself. Mine would....

For you to be in a public forum saying "don't vaccinate" is very, very dangerous and could have repercussions. Have you ever talked to a child that was bitten by a dog and had to go through very, very painful needles because the owners could not give proof they vaccinated their dog?

I have my own opinions on vaccination, but I won't voice them here. It is for each individual to educate themselves and do research and talk to "experts" on this.

JMO
Heather

Goldenmom
August 13th, 2004, 03:51 PM
So what is your opinion Luba??


I will repeat Heidi, that this discussion has been talked about in this forum already at length. Go back and do a search.

Heather

Luba
August 13th, 2004, 03:54 PM
I was being partially sarcastic on that Heather hence the LMFHO at the end!

The only cross human contamination concern is rabies to the best of my knowledge and I agree rabies is 'by law' a concern and I do vaccinate against rabies.

I don't see the dangers in advising people to do 'titer' tests , which is what I've indicated. Titer tests can decipher if the dog is / isn't carrying antibodies. If they ARE then there is NO need to over vaccinate.

Goldenmom
August 13th, 2004, 03:55 PM
I was being partially sarcastic on that Heather hence the LMAO at the end!

The only cross human contamination concern is rabies to the best of my knowledge and I agree rabies is 'by law' a concern and I do vaccinate against rabies.

I don't see the dangers in advising people to do 'titer' tests , which is what I've indicated. Titer tests can decipher if the dog is / isn't carrying antibodies. If they ARE then there is NO need to over vaccinate.


Ok, now you have clarified yourself, which maybe should have been done at the beginning. Rabies need to be done every years.

Also, yes, titers is a very good idea for people to have done if they are concerned about over-vaccination

Heather

heidiho
August 13th, 2004, 03:55 PM
Alrightyyy then,

Luba
August 13th, 2004, 04:00 PM
Sorry if I didn't mention the rabies in this thread I've just said it in every other one over and over and over, you sometimes leave things out! Accidentally ofcourse
Block headed!

glasslass
August 13th, 2004, 07:05 PM
I never heard of the titer test before I joined this forum. What is involved? A simple blood test?

Luba
August 13th, 2004, 07:12 PM
Yup just a blood test to check for appropriate levels of antibodies :D

RuffNTumble
August 13th, 2004, 08:17 PM
Hi everyone,

I don't want to throw a wrench into everything, because I don't like wrenches.. maybe a nail.. at BEST a bolt. I did a search on here and couldn't find anything matching the name "vaccinosis", so I am bringing it up. DISCLAIMER ** I am not a veterenarian.. I can't even SPELL the word, so don't take my words as gospel ** Now that I have covered my butt, here goes! :D
You may want to talk to your vet about vaccinosis, since it can kill pets! I only heard about it recently, when my great dane fell ill (it was ultimately lymphoma, though) because they are very prone to vaccinosis, and a lady I know lost a few danes to it. Some vaccines stay in the dogs' system for 5 years (although not rabies, that's yearly, and needed. GO RABIES SHOT!) and "over vaccinating" can cause illnesses, or death. There is a LOT of research online if you're interested. (I just googled "vaccinosis" and came up with a LOT, so I know I'm not making this up)
Luba and Goldenmom's advices are both good, and you should follow them, and if you feel comfortable, talk to your vet about vaccinosis, see what kind of answer you get.
Hope it helps in a non-professional kind of way!!!

Sneaky2006
August 13th, 2004, 09:34 PM
Ok, in all these posts I saw nothing about cats? My cats got their shots when we first got them but none since. They never go outside, so is rabies still needed? I mean, they can't just come down with rabies, can they?

pug lover
August 13th, 2004, 10:49 PM
bird feces and other contaminents might still affect them. Speak to your vet but I think that rabies is needed on a regular basis, at the least

SSAC
August 13th, 2004, 11:34 PM
Please discuss this topic with your veterinarian.. :) .................However, In my opinion..............Rabies can only be transmitted through saliva entering the blood stream (a bite). There is a rabies vaccine that only needs to be given every 3 years, it's called
Imrab 3. Ask your vet about it. My dogs get vaccinated for the basic virus' every year (parvo, distemper, lepto etc), as I have come in contact with many a "parvo pup" in the past, it is better to be safe than sorry, as parvo is a virus and is highly contagious. We've had many lepto cases in our area aswell ( a bacteria that is spread through the urine of wild animals and contagious to humans). They only get rabies once every 3yrs, Animal control are okay with this. Plus I have a 9yr schnauzer -don't want to encourge an auto immune.

My cats, I don't vaccinate against rabies, not since a cancerous tumour was removed from the vaccine site (low odds of this happening). I never let them outside. Not even "just outside the door, supervised".

If you chose not to vaccinate, you should still go for the yearly examination, titers are a very good idea aswell. :)

It is your choice, but discuss it in depth with your veterinarian. If you choose not to vaccinate, make sure you are prepared to treat any illness' that arise from not vaccinating -that's only fair.

All kittens and puppies should atleast have their 1st, 2nd and 3rd vaccines/ boosters.

Again...............just my opinion :p

Cinnabear
August 14th, 2004, 11:57 AM
I have 3 cats. They were vaccinated the first year but they haven't had any since then. They're indoor cats too and my oldest is 16. I also think it depends where you are. I'm in Alberta. There is rarely case of rabies here. If they're strictly indoors i would say probably no shots, but this is only my opinion. Go with your gut feeling.

Cactus Flower
August 14th, 2004, 12:35 PM
I only heard about it recently, when my great dane fell ill (it was ultimately lymphoma, though) because they are very prone to vaccinosis, and a lady I know lost a few danes to it. :eek:

When I got Raj (who was not a puppy), there were no records of whether or not she'd had any shots, so she got the full round. I asked my vet if she'd need boosters every year, and he said "That subject is quite controversial, but I don't believe she does need them every year. We can test her yearly to see if she needs any boosters. Animal Control Officers may or may not agree with me though".

I'm not worried about Raj ever being picked up by Animal Control of course lol. But it might be a good idea to have a copy of your test results if you've done the titer test. The Officers have to enforce the law whether they agree with it or not, but proving that your dog has active antibodies might cover your posterior if a situation arises.

Folks, this is a "to each their own" situation. Just do the research, talk to your vet, and make an educated decision either way.

moontamara
August 14th, 2004, 08:44 PM
In Korea, I HAVE to vaccinate, as vaccinating, even for rabies is not the law here, and there are a lot of dogs who have never had any vaccinations at all. I've already had a distemper scare, and there's no way I'm going to let my guy get any disease I can prevent.

Luba, you are obviously very well educated about all things canine (and other pets too, it seems), and I do value your opinion about this and all issues immensely. I'm sure you're right that dogs are getting over vaccinated, and there may be some health issues related to that.

But in my opinion, it's for the greater good. It's like vaccinations for people -- some people don't want to get them because of health risks, but the only reason that it's safe to NOT get vaccinations is because everyone else got theirs, and the disease isn't around. It's selfish not to vaccinate (humans, I mean), and the more people who don't vaccinate, the more dangerous it gets. Some people can't get certain vaccinations, due to allergies (egg allergies are common, and eggs are in many vaccinations), and that places the responsibility on the others to get their vaccinations...

It's very possible that we don't need to vaccinate our pets so much once they are adults, but I think we need to test to make sure they don't need those vaccines (Luba, I'm sure you get those tests done, but other people may just hear that they don't need to worry about vaccinating their pets anymore). Vaccinations aren't just for our individual pets -- they are for the common good.

Luba
August 14th, 2004, 08:59 PM
I see what you're saying but if you think about it, do you get a polio vaccination every year? Measles / mumps and Rubella?

When was the last one you had? ;)

There 's my point! :D The reason is, the antibodies remain for years my friend.

wAggie
August 14th, 2004, 09:13 PM
I thought Rabies was the most important one that pets, esp dogs, needed to get every 3 yrs...


as for bloodwork, it's highly informative, yet $100? come on!

not only that, say your dog swallows something on a dog walk, or drinks too much water... there go ur "accurate" test results... :rolleyes:

don't get me wrong, i WOULD issue a blood test for my dogs, but not necessarily for vaccinations, i still plan on giving them their rabies shots... every 3 yrs of course :)

Luba
August 14th, 2004, 09:16 PM
Completely agree on rabies yes yes

but the others way over vaccinated, no need for them every year!

Vets make a killing off us and get our dogs sick from over vaccinating.
The only ones benefitting those vets banks and the drug companies.

wAggie
August 14th, 2004, 09:24 PM
OMG, they make a killing off us if u go there and ask questions!

faaaaaack, last time i went, the price was as follows:

1. chocolate - heartworm test
2. honey - heartworm test
3. honey - inspection/diagnosis
4. honey - estrogen pills
5. chocolate - refill on whip worm pills
6. chocolate - heartworm preventative
7. honey - heartworm preventative

oh, i'm not gonna list prices... i forgot what they were, but it easily racked up to $350-370 :eek: :eek: :eek:

:rolleyes: just remember, at the vet, E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G costs. :mad:

and hopefully at the end of the day, ur dog's better :D


oh, lemme add, that is should at least cost MONEY, not LIVES.

Luba
August 14th, 2004, 09:27 PM
I'm lucky the vet i'm with I've been with about 20 years now and she waives certain fees so she's not that bad. And she's good to get a hold of on the phone for anytime the day/night if theres a real serious problem. She was blessing to have when Sadie was very young and very sick.

Now that she's all better wheee except that spay site and the infection but it's clearing up lets hope it keeps clearing up or they have to cut it out IKES

wAggie
August 14th, 2004, 09:32 PM
hey, don't get me wrong!

i love my vet(s)

i hear they've got the cheapest prices in t.o.!

$32 for check up!! :D and YES, they're credible/knowledgeable and if u get anyone but this one guy, they're TOTALLY friendly :D :D :D

moontamara
August 15th, 2004, 03:04 AM
Good point Luba... Titer tests are a good way to solve this problem, if they are available. But if they aren't, I think that it's better to over vaccinate than under vaccinate, but I suppose it depends on where you live, what your risks are, etc... Shouldn't vets be telling people about these tests? Is it fairly inexpensive?

I don't necessarily think we're at odds on this one, Luba!

alpha sheltie
August 15th, 2004, 03:54 AM
I'm still on the fence about this issue. I don't like the idea of totally not vaccinating (like some hardcore holistic pet owners I know) but I also don't like the idea of vaccinating every year. I think we'll probably end up taking the dogs for vaccinations every 3/4 years or so.

I asked our vet's assistant about titer prices. They were outrageous! $300 for a rabies titer. Not to mention all the other stuff we have to test as well.. :eek: I've also heard that titers only tell you if the animal has been recently exposed to the virus. Some sites say they show the level of antibodies and some say they only show how recently the animal has been exposed to the virus. I'm still confused about that one. :confused: I guess I'll ask the vet on Friday but I doubt I'll get an unbiased opinion. :rolleyes:

Has anyone heard of nosodes? I asked the vet assistant about it but she had never heard of them. I've read that they're suspected to be a safe alternative to vaccinations.. I don't know if there's any proof though. Maybe I should ask the holistic vet..

wAggie
August 15th, 2004, 08:16 AM
hehehehehe, and a holistic vet'll be UNbiased? ;)

:p

alpha sheltie
August 15th, 2004, 08:53 AM
hehehehehe, and a holistic vet'll be UNbiased? ;)

:p
Hahaha probably not but.. hey, at least I'd hear what I want to hear! LOL :p (That and I'll have two biased opinions to base my decision on). :D

Luba
August 15th, 2004, 11:57 AM
A holistic vet is more concerned in improving the health and quality of life of your pet, unfortunately some traditional western medicine vets are often consumed by solving everything with a drug which is a shame. Drugs and vaccines have their places ;)

RuffNTumble
August 15th, 2004, 12:20 PM
I had an AWESOME talk with my vet yesterday. I had Chewy go in for a rabies vaccine (she had never had one.. scary) and we got onto the talk of "had she every had her original shots and boosters" While she was concerned about the fact that she may not have, she was MORE concerned about the fact that she may have had them, and doing it again could cause her harm. While she has no proof of what she has seen over the years has been vaccinosis, she feels that was the case, and she is very weary in vaccinating all the time, "just to be safe", because it may not be the safest option. I can't tel you how glad I was to hear it, and we had an awesome conversation about it. That, and she is rabid mad because she has a puupy patient with parvo and the store that sold the dog is taking no responsibility, although it COMPLETELY is their fault. Stupid corporations.. Gotta give it to her though, she's been trying to shut them down for YEARS. :D GO VET GO!

This whole discussion really is individual, kinda like declawing, debarking and cropping ears! You'll never get everyone to agree, and in some places, you don't have a choice in vaccinating if you want to have a dog. I do agree that the prices are outrageous for consultations, vaccines, tests... I want to have a full blood screen done for Chewy, to see if her past neglect has caused any permanent harm, but MAN, it is ever expensive, and if something like eating something off the street can skewer the results, I'll just have to do it over!!!

And yet, I would never stop owning pets!!

Ruff

p.s. (Luba, I have the pictures, and know how to put them up, but they're 113K!!!!!!! garrrr!!!)

Luba
August 15th, 2004, 12:29 PM
she was MORE concerned about the fact that she may have had them, and doing it again could cause her harm

You have a good vet! How many would even talk with you like that? That must have made you feel so good! Great job!

Did you try to shrink the pics? :D

goldenblaze
August 15th, 2004, 01:13 PM
I am also very fortunate to have a great Vet, Dr Judy will not do anything that might hurt my pets in anyway. As the breeder of Blaze told me to use Ivomac for mange Dr Judy told me one shot can kill Blaze. I give her full range with my boys and she spends time talking with my and explaining everything, rabies yearly!

Find a vet you trust and do as they tell you. :)