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Opinions needed

Golden Girls
June 23rd, 2009, 08:14 AM
Another BM question My golden has been having bouts of diarrhea on and off for over a month. 1st I thought maybe stress from losing her bf so she had a check up and had her stools tested, *normal*

Vet suggested rice/extra lean mince meat x 5 days as well as Fortiflora. She got better for a bit and I'm not sure if giving her kibble triggeged it again or because someone gave her weiners :frustrated: but back to square one.

Vet suggested a complete blood biochemistry, all *normal* but her unine sample however showed white blood cells in it. I couldn't make heads or tails out of what he was saying other then the next step would be xrays & ultrasounds

He put her on Metronidazole x 14 days and again just rice/meat & flortiflora.

Just looked up everything but now I'm more confused. She could have inflammation from a bladder or kidney infection, could be bacterial as in Giardiasis, could be bladder stones omg

And/or it's the Solid Gold and vet strongly recommends I switch to Hills Presciption Diet (gastro) but I do not trust vet foods.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

chico2
June 23rd, 2009, 08:27 AM
GG,wish I had an answer for you,does she still have runny poop with the rice/meat??
I hope she's ok,just a sensitive tummy ....she just CANNOT be sick too:pray:

BenMax
June 23rd, 2009, 08:29 AM
Hey GG - so not better since last conversation.

Go with the Hills food as recommended. Trust me please as all dogs that had intestinal problems did fine on this food. Once regulated, I went back to my regular feeding of higher quality by mixing and then fully on regular. Others may disagree but for my fosters that had problems (and I have had many) this worked fine.

As for the medical - I can't help. Best of luck to you on this - you certainly do not need this of all things.:grouphug:

Golden Girls
June 23rd, 2009, 08:50 AM
Thanks Chico, the rice/lean meat worked for a bit but it came back once she began back on her kibbles (or it was from weiners)

I emailed Solid Gold to see if they changed their ingredients lately.

BM, for a while she was ok I remembered you telling me to make sure they checked for Giardia in her stools which they did. But reading the net it says it can also be in the intestines. To be sure I haven't allowed her to swim in the river for the last 10 days, I use the hose to cool her off.

But really the Hills helped good to know that thank you. What kind have you used?

I thought it contained alot of stool harderner's & corn. Personally I don't understand 1/2 of whats in pet food ingredients to be honest. He was upset at my reaction to try their food though

Seriously she's gaining weigh & not getting the protein she needs on rice all the time. Something's gotta give :shrug:

BenMax
June 23rd, 2009, 09:03 AM
Thanks Chico, the rice/lean meat worked for a bit but it came back once she began back on her kibbles (or it was from weiners)

I emailed Solid Gold to see if they changed their ingredients lately.

BM, for a while she was ok I remembered you telling me to make sure they checked for Giardia in her stools which they did. But reading the net it says it can also be in the intestines. To be sure I haven't allowed her to swim in the river for the last 10 days, I use the hose to cool her off.

But really the Hills helped good to know that thank you. What kind have you used?

I thought it contained alot of stool harderner's & corn. Personally I don't understand 1/2 of whats in pet food ingredients to be honest. He was upset at my reaction to try their food though

Seriously she's gaining weigh & not getting the protein she needs on rice all the time. Something's gotta give :shrug:

I used the Hills Gastro. For my fosters, it did the trick. I would not hesitate for one moment to give to my dog if I had to. I have seen it work and I cannot dispute this.

I am going to pick up some REAL dogfood tonight or Thursday. The guy there is AMAZING as he worked in the petfood industry and is very knowledgeable. He left because he disagreed with the ingredients so he know sells only the finest (BTW - no pets are sold there). I will ask him and let you know what he says. Sorry I personally cannot give any other advice. All I can tell you is what worked for me but it does not mean it's the best for your babe.

Golden Girls
June 23rd, 2009, 09:25 AM
ok BenMax thanks I will try it. Of course one step at a time, 1st she must finish the meds and once it's normal :pray: I will give it a try

Does only vets sell Hills Presciption Diet food?

BenMax
June 23rd, 2009, 10:15 AM
ok BenMax thanks I will try it. Of course one step at a time, 1st she must finish the meds and once it's normal :pray: I will give it a try

Does only vets sell Hills Presciption Diet food?

I believe so. Vets have a 'deal' with these brands. There is also Medical Gastro.

kandy
June 23rd, 2009, 06:31 PM
I'm sorry that her diarrhea has come back.

I know you've told me that you've been feeding the Solid Gold for a long time. There are some who believe that dogs will develop allergies to foods that they've been fed for a long time. If the runs go away when she's off the food, and come back once you put her back on it - I'd have to be suspicious of the food.

Having white blood cells in her urine could indicate an infection, and most likely a bladder or urinary tract infection. The stones normally form after a prolonged decrease in flow going throught the bladder. Is she peeing the same amount as normal or is it less or more? Sometimes white blood cells will show up even with no infection - the white blood cells are the body's army and are sent out to do battle with whatever the body thinks has invaded it. Sometimes inflammation can cause the body to react, or some kind of irritation. And sometimes the immune system just goes haywire.

It could still be the giardia - everything I've read says that it can take more than one round of antibiotics to get rid of those buggers.

I know that the pumpkin seemed to help her last time, have you tried that again? Personally, I think the vet food helps because of the additives they put in - it's definitely not the sub-par ingredients. I would imagine they are trying to sell you the I/D food, which is for digestive issues. Here are the ingredients:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Brewers Rice, Dried Egg Product, Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Powdered Cellulose, Dicalcium Phosphate, Chicken Liver Flavor, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
According to their website, the benefits of this food are increased B vitamins and potassium, higher fat to replace lost energy and higher fiber. Vitamin B6 & B12 are needed for proper digestion, and can be found in any meat or poultry source (which this food has almost none). Bananas are high in potassium and also in B6 and B12. I can see that the food is definitely high in fiber - it's pretty much all fiber IMO.

I hope she feels better soon. There is nothing worse than not being able to find the source of the problem.

Golden Girls
June 24th, 2009, 08:25 AM
BenMax I thought we were speaking of the same food "Hills Gastro". Her vet wants her on the *Hills ID* which I suspect it's about profit (I'm not saying she doesn't need a gastro food though) but I'm going to have to do some homework while her tummy is resting up.

She's had now 4 doses of the meds but hasn't poo'd yet, hopefully she'll be ready soon - :pray:'ing it's going to be even a little firm. Can't believe I'm disgussing this topic on the internet :o

Thanks Kandy for all that info :2huggers: she is peeing alot I also read about the Giardia and I so hope it's not that. I'm now leaning on maybe it is the SG perhaps getting older something in it is just not agreeing with her anymore.

Hills ID - 1st to the 5th ingredient is what we should concentrate on right, doesn't look too good now does it?

JennieV
June 24th, 2009, 11:53 AM
Hi GG,

Sorry to hear about the troubled tummy...
Can't really help with the medical stuff, but when we got Sparky last year I went with GO! grain-free. It was too high on protein for him, gave him terrible gas and he never had a solid poop, it was always watery. Then we went with Orijen and the problems virtually disappeared. Almost no gas (rarely) and his poops are really nice (:yuck:) .

When he had a real bad episode with diarrhea (before Orijen) the vet convinced me to buy the food from them (Iams Intestinal Low Residue Puppy) and just give it to him while he has tummy problem, going back to normal food after its gone. I was upset but went with it because it seemed to help. But thats how we figured it out, he was doing fine on Iams :yuck:, and then back to good quality food he was getting worse. :frustrated:

I would try another quality food, recommend Orijen, but do your own research, you might find other options too.

Good Luck and don't be afraid to try the vet's food. Sometimes it actually works. :shrug:

Also, just wanted to add, with Tarzan RIP, we had to put him on Senior food relatively early, because he wasn't doing good on adult anymore(diarrhea or constipation), and senior was easier to digest and had glucosamine for his joints and all that...

Golden Girls
June 24th, 2009, 05:09 PM
Hi JennieV thank you

I've been researching all day and I was most impressed with the Senior Orijen so far. Their website btw is full of info :thumbs up http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/senior.aspx

Golden Girls
June 24th, 2009, 05:18 PM
If you click into the bottom of their site, check this out:

Why you must never trust stated protein %'s to compare dog food

Think you can’t be easily fooled?

Well, think again.

You see… when shopping for dog food, you just
can’t trust the stated protein percentage printed
right there on the label.

No, you really can’t. And here’s why…

Say you’ve got a pair of old leather boots…
some used motor oil… and a scoop of sawdust.

Now, grind them all up… blend them together…
and send that whole concoction to a food testing
laboratory… for analysis.

And the results? This toxic medley of rubbish
contains…

Protein 32%
Fat 18%
Fiber 3%

Now, if you look only at the “raw data”… the
numbers make this funky brew look pretty
good… in fact, just as good as any quality dog
food.

The leather provides the protein. The motor oil
supplies the fat. And the sawdust contributes
the fiber.

Not exactly something you’d ever want to feed
your dog. See how easy it is to be fooled?

I'm like :eek:

kandy
June 24th, 2009, 08:30 PM
And it's exactly that kind of trickery that led to the huge dog food recalls. Melamine boosts the levels of protein that show up in tests, and apparently it's been common practice in China to add melamine to glutens, which go in all kinds of animal feeds, including dog food. One manufacturer got a bit greedy and decided to add more melamine and less actual gluten, knowing full well that the product would still test for high protein levels. They send it to US dog food manufacturers who outsource those kinds of ingredients because of the higher profit margin. It got added to dog food and cat food - and created a tragedy. One article that I read about the melamine said that melamine was like 1/100th the cost of gluten and IMO that cost savings made those manufacturer's look the other way when they knew damn well what they were really getting.

While I know the chinese manufacturers, as well as the US manufacturers who imported the tainted ingredients, all got charged - the US folks only got charged with importing ingredients that were not accurately labeled. Pfffffftttt. I would caution all animal owners to check the labels on everything they give their dogs, from food to treats. All food products must list the country of origin on their labels - and I've found that some supposedly healthy treats are made in China. Now I don't have anything against China, but they do seem to have some very strange things happen with their food - human hair in baby formula, melamine in baby formula, and something weird with their toothpaste (that I can't quite remember right now) among other things. They seem to have a problem with their product safety standards in general and I make sure to check labels now before I buy something that I or my dogs will ingest.

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 09:57 AM
GG how is she doing today?? any improvements??

BeagleMum
June 25th, 2009, 11:02 AM
I know that when Sydney was having tummy trouble and I had to take her into the vet, I had to give her some meds, I fasted her for 24 hours then gave her the vet canned gastro food. I only bought 2 cans which I think lasted for 2-3 days and then she slowly went back to rice and chicken then back to her kibble.

Usually as soon as my two get the runs, I have given them a dose of pepto and put them on the rice & chicken diet for a few days and it has always worked. It was just the once when Sydney was actually throwing up too that I had to take her into the vet to get the medication.

I wouldn't be against the vet food if it is temporary to help get her system back in order but I would definitely not keep her on it very long (since we all know the quality of it is pretty low). My dogs have been on Orijen 6 Fish for a long time now and have been doing great. I really like Orijen.

Golden Girls
June 25th, 2009, 11:03 AM
I've learned so much don't know where to start :D

Thanks for asking Breeze, she's had 2 poop's now and both were pick-er-up'able :thumbs up Mind you she's only eating rice, meds as well as flortiflora I think even water would be solid with this mixture :D

I'm just hoping it's a bacteria thing that'll clear up with the meds so we could could move forward. I need to find a better food for her as the SG Hollisque Blendz is way too grainy. I now suspect it has alot to do with her weigh gain and possible gatro problems but I'm open to all suggestions from members regarding what they feed that works for them.

I realize there is tons of info already but ingredients do change from year to year

Kandy isn't that just scary :eek:

Golden Girls
June 25th, 2009, 11:09 AM
Thanks BM for your input. Glad to hear your pup's did fine with the vet food when they were sick. When I put Brandi on the wet gasto vet stuff just wow it right through her like explosively. The 1st ingredients I believe said corn :wall: When I told the vet this he's like what to do you expect when feeding her whatever for so long :yell: she's fat something isn't right oh dear

BeagleMum
June 25th, 2009, 11:12 AM
My vet used to try to get me to put the dogs on the Hills food that he sells. I flat out told him that I wouldn't do it because it's crap food and besides, Spencer is allergic to it. Since then, he just leaves me alone.

I have never seen a bad reaction to the gastro food, if you get that reaction to it, I wouldn't feed it either. I don't care how long they have been on something else, it's supposed to help with the problem, not make it worse. Ugh!! :frustrated:

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 11:12 AM
I've learned so much don't know where to start :D

Thanks for asking Breeze, she's had 2 poop's now and both were pick-er-up'able :thumbs up Mind you she's only eating rice, meds as well as flortiflora I think even water would be solid with this mixture :D

I'm just hoping it's a bacteria thing that'll clear up with the meds so we could could move forward. I need to find a better food for her as the SG Hollisque Blendz is way too grainy. I now suspect it has alot to do with her weigh gain and possible gatro problems but I'm open to all suggestions from members regarding what they feed that works for them.

I realize there is tons of info already but ingredients do change from year to year

Kandy isn't that just scary :eek:

:thumbs up:thumbs up:thumbs up
I know how hard it can be to find the right solution. and reading so much that your eyes cross ( I am doing that now) so I understand, mind you Bree's problem is a little different.

kandy
June 25th, 2009, 11:12 AM
I'm glad that she's had a couple of poops that were better! Hopefully she continues to improve!

And I totally agree - some of the stuff that gets put in dog food is very scary.

kandy
June 25th, 2009, 11:17 AM
Thanks BM for your input. Glad to hear your pup's did fine with the vet food when they were sick. When I put Brandi on the wet gasto vet stuff just wow it right through her like explosively. The 1st ingredients I believe said corn :wall: When I told the vet this he's like what to do you expect when feeding her whatever for so long :yell: she's fat something isn't right oh dear

So is your vet trying to say that the I/D food is cleaning her out from her having 'whatever' kind of food for so long??? :frustrated:

Golden Girls
June 25th, 2009, 11:28 AM
Thanks exactly what he was saying Kandy :) You know vets save our animals for sure and we surely need them but I just don't think they should be giving nutritional advice especially when it's not a quality food. They believe the manufacturer's and not us when were simply ask if they could so kindly not try and kill them with their non-nutritional expertise ...

Kandy and I have been msn'g & emailing. She's done extensive research on dog food since having problems herself with one of her puppers so I thought I'd share her info for anyone else who may be experiencing health problems, diarrhea and/or overweight pups. It's great info thanks for that :)

Doing a bit of research, a lot of things say that senior dogs have trouble digesting protein and since most dog food companies like to fill their dog food with plant based proteins (ie grains), it makes it even harder for them to digest it which causes digestive tract issues. Experts say the best thing you can do for a senior dog who is having digestion issues is to get them off grains and onto a higher protein (meat based), low carb diet. It's just amazing to me that most senior formula's are exactly the opposite - lower protein and higher carbs. No wonder older dogs have such a tendency to put on weight!

Based on that premise, and assuming that she doesn't have kidney problems that would be aggravated by higher protein - I found 5 grain free foods that have lower carbs than most grain free. Grain free does not mean carb free, although most people don't realize that sometimes a grain free food can have more carbs than a food with grain in it.

Merrick Before Grain Salmon
Solid Gold Barking at the Moon
The Honest Kitchen - Verve (this is actually a dehydrated raw diet that you add water to)
Acana Pacifica
Orijen Senior

Looking at the ingredients in SG Holistique Blendz it is very grain heavy. 3 grains, then ocean fish (not meal) then potato are the first 5 ingredients.

(Me thinking ... not a very good choice for a senior already overweight with digestive problems as well as having hypothyroidism geesh and I wonder why she keeps gaining weight. I do supplement her food with grade A meat everyday, at least that was good

http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/showproduct.php?id=6&code=160

When you are looking at ingredient listings, remember that the list has to go in order of quantity - whatever is first is theoretically what there is the most of in the food. You need to be aware of a few loopholes that dog food companies have made in that requirement though. If chicken is first, but it just says 'chicken' or 'deboned chicken' - that means that the chicken is in it's wet form. Once the water is removed, that chicken could actually fall to 3rd or 4th on the ingredient list. So if you have a fresh meat source first, followed by 3 grains - then there is much more grain in that food than meat. So if the food has chicken meal followed by 3 grains, it has way more meat protein in it than the one that listed fresh chicken first.

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 11:35 AM
Great advice :thumbs up and :fingerscr you can find what will work for her..

what food are you leaning to?

Golden Girls
June 25th, 2009, 11:35 AM
:thumbs up:thumbs up:thumbs up
I know how hard it can be to find the right solution. and reading so much that your eyes cross ( I am doing that now) so I understand, mind you Bree's problem is a little different.lol ya my brain is quite full :) Sorry to hear but what's been happening with Breeze?

Golden Girls
June 25th, 2009, 11:37 AM
Great advice :thumbs up and :fingerscr you can find what will work for her..

what food are you leaning to?You too :thumbs up Well I did want to try the SG Barking at the Moon but since I've sent 3 emails asking if their ingredients have changed and no reply I'm leaning toward the Senior Orijen. Seems like many are very happy with this product

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 11:38 AM
lol ya my brain is quite full :) Sorry to hear but what's been happening with Breeze?

we (the vet and I) belive that it is IBD . I have been reading your thread in between reachering, just did not want to threadjack.

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 11:39 AM
You too :thumbs up Well I did want to try the SG Barking at the Moon but since I've sent 3 emails asking if their ingredients have changed and no reply I'm leaning toward the Senior Orijen. Seems like many are very happy with this product


I have heard of the same.. people really like Orijen..

Golden Girls
June 25th, 2009, 11:46 AM
What's IBD? Anyone is welcome to threadjack - it's about sharing any/all info, besides when doesn't one topic roll into another :D

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 11:51 AM
What's IBD? Anyone is welcome to threadjack - it's about sharing any/all info, besides when doesn't one topic roll into another :D

Inflammatory bowel disease..where her intestines get very inflamed, bloating cramping with blood in her very loose/ mucusy/watery poop
similar to irritable bowel syndrome


:laughing:you have a point.:o

kandy
June 25th, 2009, 11:52 AM
I would think that with all the diarrhea she's had lately, her system is sufficiently clean. Maybe she had such an 'explosive' reaction to the food because she's allergic to corn or something.

A while back I did some condition specific research for a coworker whose dog has SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth). The vet had her dog on one of the Hill's prescription products. Every single thing I read about SIBO stated that the very worst thing you can give to a dog with the condition is corn - but yet the first ingredient in the prescription food is corn. I just don't understand why most vets think that forcing a carnivore to survive on grains is nutritionally appropriate? Even humans will have health problems if they don't take in enough proteins - and our bodies process grains a lot more efficiently than a dogs. A friend of my husband had a maltese with severe allergies. Their vet put their dog on one of the Hill's prescription diets. The symptoms got much worse, so much so that this vet convinced them to just put the dog to sleep. I think the poor dog was 2 years old. I had tried talking to the wife about it when the dog first starting showing symptoms, but she wasn't receptive to anything I was saying. One thing she had told me made me think she might've been giving the little guy onions so of course I warned her that onions are toxic. A couple of weeks later she informed me that her vet told her onions are not toxic to dogs. I was flabbergasted - and extremely glad that I don't go to that vet. IMO vets need a ton more nutritional education - that is not dictated by dog food companies.

BenMax
June 25th, 2009, 12:11 PM
GG- maybe Dr. Lee can help with this. :shrug:

diandpat
June 25th, 2009, 12:25 PM
You too :thumbs up Well I did want to try the SG Barking at the Moon but since I've sent 3 emails asking if their ingredients have changed and no reply I'm leaning toward the Senior Orijen. Seems like many are very happy with this product

GG, sorry to hear about your girl's problems and certainly hope it clears up soon.

We switched to Orijen Senior from Orijen 6fish about two weeks ago not for any digestive problems but because Hobo the little vacuum is a tad overweight. There are less carbs in this formula and the protein sources were what I consider good so we decided to try it. They both made the transition easily and Hobo does appear to be a little less chunky so we will stick with it.

BTW, before the Orijen 6 fish we were on Adult Orijen so have been using it for several years and both dogs have done exceptionally well on it. They are both seniors now...Ginger is 15 and Hobo is 11.
:fingerscr for a good result soon for you :goodvibes:

Golden Girls
June 25th, 2009, 10:04 PM
I don't know how to multi quote so I'll do it this way

Breeze IMD :sad: Would ultra-sound & x-rays verify this condition, just curious as that's the next step for Brandi if the diarrhea doesn't stop? What are you feeding now? I guess like Brandi you'd need a grain-free low carb with high animal protein right?

Kandy lol ya I think it would be a fair statement ... she's wiped clean and really she could be allergic to corn. I've read many are. I think the vets see the Hills work because the diarrhea stops but only because there is Beet Pulp = stool hardener in it. May as well give Ole Roy with Imodium and save yourself about $100 :shrug: still just a bandage

BenMax re Dr Lee as far as the medical stuff it's a wait and see situation but of course if he could help with a diagnosis ... hell I'm in :D

DiandPat Thank you. LOL Hobo the little vacuum o I'm glad to hear Senior Orijen is helping them both good to hear, wow 15 & 11 :thumbs up

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 10:15 PM
I don't know how to multi quote so I'll do it this way

Breeze IMD :sad: Would ultra-sound & x-rays verify this condition, just curious as that's the next step for Brandi if the diarrhea doesn't stop? What are you feeding now? I guess like Brandi you'd need a grain-free low carb with high animal protein right?

Kandy lol ya I think it would be a fair statement ... she's wiped clean and really she could be allergic to corn. I've read many are. I think the vets see the Hills work because the diarrhea stops but only because there is Beet Pulp = stool hardener in it. May as well give Ole Roy with Imodium and save yourself about $100 :shrug: still just a bandage

BenMax re Dr Lee as far as the medical stuff it's a wait and see situation but of course if he could help with a diagnosis ... hell I'm in :D

DiandPat Thank you. LOL Hobo the little vacuum o I'm glad to hear Senior Orijen is helping them both good to hear, wow 15 & 11 :thumbs up

ha ha this part I can help with.. right beside the qoute button there is one with two qoute marks like this " click on that one then go to the next you want to qoute and click on the " you can do that up to 4 qoutes.

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 10:20 PM
Breeze IMD :sad: Would ultra-sound & x-rays verify this condition, just curious as that's the next step for Brandi if the diarrhea doesn't stop? What are you feeding now? I guess like Brandi you'd need a grain-free low carb with high animal protein right?

Kandy lol ya I think it would be a fair statement ... she's wiped clean and really she could be allergic to corn. I've read many are. I think the vets see the Hills work because the diarrhea stops but only because there is Beet Pulp = stool hardener in it. May as well give Ole Roy with Imodium and save yourself about $100 :shrug: still just a bandage




nope ultra sound and/or x-rays will not show what we need, it will only show an obstruction, or mass the best would be a scope.
I need to find a low protien low fat no millet or chicken fat diet..
we were feeding "NOW" then the price went up could not real afford it and Archie and Bree was not realy eating it either so we switched to taste of the wild fish was doing not to bad but then she had a flaire up and will not go back to eating it .. so I am feeding hamburger and rice at the moment ( thats all she will eat) with some supplements until we can figure this out... it's not easy..

the second part of your statment made me laugh, thank you I needed to laugh..:thumbs up

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 10:22 PM
GG if it's an allergy have you thought about

Califorina Natural

simple solutions

Naturals balance

Winston
June 25th, 2009, 10:27 PM
Breeze have you ever thought of trying a veggie formula and maybe adding some stuff? or what about something like a venison or duck ?

Sorry Bree isnt feeling well...

breeze
June 25th, 2009, 10:27 PM
Breeze have you ever thought of trying a veggie formula and maybe adding some stuff? or what about something like a venison or duck ?

Sorry Bree isnt feeling well...


yup yup and yup

TeriM
June 26th, 2009, 12:21 AM
I recently put Lucy back on all raw (was kibble in morning, raw at night) based on our homeopath vet's advice but a few years back when I switched them to a higher protein low carb kibble she lost weight :shrug:. There was basically no calorie difference between the two kibbles but she obviously was able to process the higher protein kibble more effectively.

I would suggest switching proteins as well as going to a higher protein. Her reactions could easily be from allergies and this might cause her to be hyper sensitive to the same proteins even if it is a grain allergy. This means trying Orijen Fish or Acana Pacifica (made by Orijen). They are both great formulas but you might consider buying the Pacifica to begin as it is 33% protein and if you supplement with regular meat already that might be a better choice. It is probably harder to find though then Orijen (it is here anyway).

kandy
June 26th, 2009, 10:40 AM
a few years back when I switched them to a higher protein low carb kibble she lost weight :shrug:. There was basically no calorie difference between the two kibbles but she obviously was able to process the higher protein kibble more effectively.



Exactly. That's why an overweight dog should get higher protein and low carbs. Yet most lower calorie dog food is exactly the opposite. And when a dog processes their food efficiently, you don't have near the intestinal problems. Humans can derive energy from carbs, dogs get their energy from fat and protein.

Golden Girls
June 28th, 2009, 02:07 PM
Brandi is still not regular, at a loss :shrug: Spoke with her vet Thursday and again yesterday. If by tomorrow nothing changes he wants to refer her to a specialist for intestinal issues

I've stopped the rice since she's been on/off for over a month (too much carb) = weak, vet agreed

I'll finish up her meds & florifora and I'm cooking for her. I'll be putting on the Senior Orijen but must wait for now. I've prepared for the week fish, chicken, beef, potatoes, carrots and broccoli adding pumpkin. Vet suggested to feed her very small amounts every two hours :fingerscr

Breeze any update :goodvibes:

breeze
June 28th, 2009, 03:27 PM
This is just my opinion GG and not every dog is the same so what work for Bree might not work for Brandi.

Bree seems to be getting better but we are not out of the woods yet. There is no more blood so I can safely say, that she is out of crisis.

She is still on about 1/2 cup on hamburger, a little moist food (EVO beef) and about 1 cup of kibble ( also EVO red meat), what takes regular dogs to transition back to the kibble takes Bree much much longer.

Since she was eating the medium meat about 30% fat and protien we thought about getting a kibble that would be like giving raw.
( Bree won't eat raw, and I don't like cooking) :D
instead of taking 9 days to transitions I'm letting her poop tell me. which might take longer.. so far not bad.
She gets no other treats except for her breakfast and supper. ( even after I brush her):o and fresh water. they told me to try bottled water but I wanted to try one thing at a time.

Bree is also taking L-Glutamine = to help repair her intestines
and digestive enzymes ( holistic solutions pinky label)to help with digestion.= we might switch her to a better digestive enzymes, when she gets back to normal.

I sure hope you can find out whats wrong with your girl.:fingerscr:goodvibes::grouphug:

if it was me I would probably go back to hamburger and rice or chicken and rice for three days ( we had to go back to the beginning) and diegestive enzymes, then try adding a handful of kibble which ever one you diside on and stay with that for three day and see how that goes. only one thing at a time. ( the heat doesn't help):sad:

like I metioned this is only my opinion, and don't forget Bree has not been well since the end of April

:grouphug::goodvibes::fingerscr

free
June 28th, 2009, 03:57 PM
golden girls i know they all say use rice but one of my sisters dog who does have problems at times cannot eat rice and the only carbs that are ok are baked potatoe or plain pasta.

Golden Girls
June 29th, 2009, 09:21 AM
golden girls i know they all say use rice but one of my sisters dog who does have problems at times cannot eat rice and the only carbs that are ok are baked potatoe or plain pasta.Vets do recommend using rice but like anything it might not help some but has in the past :shrug:

I'm happy to hear Bree is out of crisis. Brandi too had blood in her stools at the beginning not now either :highfive:

Thanks for your opinion, I would of kept her on the rice but it hasn't helped. Her 1st vet visit was May 28 - not as long as Bree but still a month I'm very worried too. I'll give it a few days of home cooking (approx 80% is protein) & giving little portions instead of 2 meals it's back to picker'up'able but not firm enough to add kibble just yet. That'll be the next step if she could get there. Vet suggested to soak the kibble in hot water for ten minutes gradually adding more :pray: Maybe that would help Bree digest better?

I've reduced dramatically her outings to short walks only - ya the heat is unbearable esp when your sick, thank dawg for A/C

:goodvibes: I hope we both can find out what's up with our girls :goodvibes:

breeze
June 29th, 2009, 09:44 AM
don't you wish they could tell us ( speaking in our language) what wrong??

how is Brandi this morning??




Last night bree ate everything, and this morning leaving about 1/4 cup, but she did have a busy day yesterday.

breeze
June 29th, 2009, 09:48 AM
I'll give it a few days of home cooking (approx 80% is protein) & giving little portions instead of 2 meals it's back to picker'up'able but not firm enough to add kibble just yet. That'll be the next step if she could get there. Vet suggested to soak the kibble in hot water for ten minutes gradually adding more :pray: Maybe that would help Bree digest better?

I've reduced dramatically her outings to short walks only - ya the heat is unbearable esp when your sick, thank dawg for A/C

:goodvibes: I hope we both can find out what's up with our girls :goodvibes:

:thumbs up the vet suggested the water also, but I read where some kibble should not be soaked :shrug:

if her poop is pick able then I probably would put a handful of the kibble in very small amounts. and give her a couple of meals a day this is what we did also :thumbs up

Golden Girls
June 29th, 2009, 09:50 AM
:thumbs up the vet suggested the water also, but I read where some kibble should not be soaked :shrug:Makes sense if their having digestive issues but I wondered if it would remove the nutrients?

breeze
June 29th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Makes sense if their having digestive issues but I wondered if it would remove the nutrients?


I don't know, but we disided not to try it..

what food did you diside on??

Golden Girls
June 29th, 2009, 10:00 AM
I don't know, but we disided not to try it..

what food did you diside on??I probably won't soak the kibble either. I'm going to buy a small bag of Senior Orijen and will began to add a little starting tomorrow :pray:

breeze
June 29th, 2009, 10:03 AM
I probably won't soak the kibble either. I'm going to buy a small bag of Senior Orijen and will began to add a little starting tomorrow :pray:


sounds good, I couldn't feed Bree Orijen cause of the chicken fat in it. for preservitive sp?

kandy
June 29th, 2009, 10:36 AM
There was a thread here some time ago in which someone said that you shouldn't soak kibble that has citric acid in it because it increases the risk of bloat but I haven't been able to find any information on that. And of course soaking the kibble allows bacteria to start growing on it if it's left for any length of time.

If Brandi isn't doing well on the rice, then maybe the potato will do better for her. Did your vet ever test her stool for bacteria? Maybe the antibiotic they've got her on isn't effective against whatever bacteria is there (if it is infection related)? Hopefully she'll get past this soon!

coppperbelle
June 29th, 2009, 09:40 PM
I'm sorry to hear about the problems you are having. A month is a long time to be dealing with runny poops.
While Orijen is an excellent food it is also high in protein and since she hasn't been eating a lot of protein lately introducing it now may just aggravate the problem.
Have you tried the vet diet food? I know it isn't the best but it does do the job. Personally I would try that first and then switch her over very slowly once her problem is solved.
Has the vet tested again for Giardia?

breeze
June 30th, 2009, 08:22 AM
GG

How is Brandi this morning?? and you??

:grouphug::goodvibes::goodvibes:

breeze
June 30th, 2009, 10:59 AM
updates please GG

Golden Girls
June 30th, 2009, 11:28 AM
Kandy yes her stools were checked by the vet then sent to another laboratory for further testing ... it all came back negative. Since stopping the rice she seems much better, not as round and more energy.

Cooperbelle thanks she hasn't been tested again for Gardia but I will once the meds are done if she's not better. I gave her the vet Hills I/D she exploded and no wonder ... maybe you didn't read the ingredients (Kandy posted it above) :yuck: I've added a few kibbles of Sr Orijen last night so time will tell :pray:

Breeze I'm waiting for Brandi to give me the signal she needs to go :D

So you've started the Evo Red Meat ... how's Bree doing today? I read the ingredients :thumbs up

So I guess she's allergic to chicken fat? I chosed Orijen 1st and foremost no grains also it's a Canadian product and last they only use free range farms which thrilled me to no end. I'm planning to add maybe a handful to her home cooked soon.

breeze
June 30th, 2009, 11:40 AM
Kandy yes her stools were checked by the vet then sent to another laboratory for further testing ... it all came back negative. Since stopping the rice she seems much better, not as round and more energy.

Cooperbelle thanks she hasn't been tested again for Gardia but I will once the meds are done if she's not better. I don't want to give her the Hills I/D ... maybe you didn't read the ingredients ... it's above Kandy posted it :yuck: I've added a few kibbles of Sr Orijen last night so time will tell :pray:

Breeze I'm waiting for Brandi to give me the signal she needs to go :D

So you've started the Evo Red Meat ... how's Bree doing today? I read the ingredients :thumbs up

So I guess she's allergic to chicken fat? I chosed Orijen 1st and foremost no grains also it's a Canadian product and last they only use free range farms which thrilled me to no end. I'm planning to add maybe a handful to her home cooked soon.

waiting can suck, but I will keep my fingers crossed.

I'm not sure but it seems like it is, everytime she has had kibble with chicken fat it was always the same results. orijen fish was the only one that did not have chicken fat, now they are coming out with orijen red meat. ( I made a mistake and told LP that there was chicken fat in it and I reread the ingredents and it doesn't. sorry LP)
so that could be another option for me.

she did not eat very well this morning:sad::sad:

breeze
June 30th, 2009, 11:58 AM
here is a link to the red meat orijen

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/regionalRedIngredients.aspx

Golden Girls
June 30th, 2009, 12:13 PM
she did not eat very well this morning:sad::sad::fingerscr

Golden Girls
July 7th, 2009, 01:31 PM
It's been a week and I did what you were doing Breeze chopped the kibble in the blender and it went well ... for awhile. Right after visiting Cpietra I took her to the park - explosive again :sad:

She had an ultrasound done yesterday at L'Hopitale Veterinaire Rive-Sud and I'm so relieved to say everything inside is normal.

Back to the drawing board. She got shaved all under and both sides, man does she look funny

I'm wondering could all this be stress due to losing Mist?

breeze
July 7th, 2009, 02:18 PM
so the good news is that there is nothing wrong inside :thumbs up:thumbs up

and the bad news :sad: Brandi is doing no better :sad::sad:


have you tryed the digestive enzymes??

Golden Girls
July 7th, 2009, 02:24 PM
Ya very happy with the ultrasound results *phew* more like it

I'm still adding the Vet's FortiFlora (probiotics) which does the same job as enzymes - helps to digest right?

breeze
July 7th, 2009, 02:28 PM
Ya very happy with the ultrasound results *phew* more like it

I'm still adding the Vet's FortiFlora (probiotics) which does the same job as enzymes - helps to digest right?

yes the enzymes help to digest.
I have never tried the FortiFlora.. I've heard of probiotics, but not FortiFlora

breeze
July 7th, 2009, 02:33 PM
GG this is just a thought, is it possible that the probiotics aren't working any more??
that her body is use to them so they don't do what they are suppose to do??

Is Brandi still on the meds that the vet gave her before??

Golden Girls
July 7th, 2009, 02:40 PM
I'm not sure Breeze the vet suggests she stay on the probiotics :shrug:

She finished the 14 days of meds yesterday morning. I'm still giving her mini meals X4 daily Crunching the kibbles seem to help then I thought maybe the excitement being so close to all Cpietra cats made her explode :laughing: truly Mist went nuts whenever a cat was within view (even swallowed one once, but we saved it literally by the tail :D) and Brandi always followed her. It doesn't appear though she hates them at all, quite the opposite.

My vet will get the report and another vet visit :rolleyes: is scheduled for Thursday but that's it no more tests. I'm thinking of bringing a stool sample to test again for Gardia but besides that, I'm just empty on what else it could be other her being really super sad :shrug:

How is Bree doing these days :fingerscr

kandy
July 7th, 2009, 02:47 PM
The fortiflora supposedly contains a special strain of bacteria specifically to restore intestinal health called enterococcus faecium where probiotics usually have mostly acidophollus (sp??) or something similar depending on the brand. Digestive enzymes and probiotics are different, although they both have a part in the digestive system. If the body is lacking in enzymes, then it slows the digestion which can lead to bad bacteria growth in the intestines. The enzymes break down the food by causing a chemical reaction with the food whereas the probiotics keep the balance of good & bad bacteria in the intestines. Both are needed for proper digestion and absorption of food.

I'm sorry that Brandi is still having problems. :(

breeze
July 7th, 2009, 03:01 PM
I'm not sure Breeze the vet suggests she stay on the probiotics :shrug:

She finished the 14 days of meds yesterday morning. I'm still giving her mini meals X4 daily Crunching the kibbles seem to help then I thought maybe the excitement being so close to all Cpietra cats made her explode :laughing: truly Mist went nuts whenever a cat was within view (even swallowed one once, but we saved it literally by the tail :D) and Brandi always followed her. It doesn't appear though she hates them at all, quite the opposite.

My vet will get the report and another vet visit :rolleyes: is scheduled for Thursday but that's it no more tests. I'm thinking of bringing a stool sample to test again for Gardia but besides that, I'm just empty on what else it could be other her being really super sad :shrug:

How is Bree doing these days :fingerscr

thank goodness for a tail :thumbs up:thumbs up :D

I know when Bree was on the meds "Metro" something or other( can never remember how to spell it ot say it for that matter, it just made Bree worst so we had to stop.

maybe now that she is off the meds maybe it will take a couple of days to clear up :fingerscr:fingerscr similar to when we are anti biotics and it doesn't agree with our system..


The fortiflora supposedly contains a special strain of bacteria specifically to restore intestinal health called enterococcus faecium where probiotics usually have mostly acidophollus (sp??) or something similar depending on the brand. Digestive enzymes and probiotics are different, although they both have a part in the digestive system. If the body is lacking in enzymes, then it slows the digestion which can lead to bad bacteria growth in the intestines. The enzymes break down the food by causing a chemical reaction with the food whereas the probiotics keep the balance of good & bad bacteria in the intestines. Both are needed for proper digestion and absorption of food.
(

when Bree was on just regular probotics she had the runs A LOT!! so I stopped giving it to her :shrug:

kandy
July 7th, 2009, 03:01 PM
Actually Breeze may have something there. If Brandi isn't actually lacking in the type of bacteria in the fortiflora, then it would make sense that it isn't working - and even if she does need that particular bacteria, the antibiotics kill of ALL the bacteria, so she'd still be lacking in the others too.

You might just broach the subject with your vet - tell him that you don't think the fortiflora is working and asking if a lactic acid bacteria (acidophilus) based probiotic wouldn't be okay to try? If it doesn't show some improvement soon, you might think about looking for a holistic vet to see if they can help.

I have read that older dogs have a harder time producing the digestive enzymes, and since processed kibble is lacking in the enzymes (due to the cooking process) it can lead to intestinal problems, including diarrhea. Of course stress definitely plays a part in intestinal health, so it's possible that her problem is stress related.

kandy
July 7th, 2009, 03:07 PM
when Bree was on just regular probotics she had the runs A LOT!! so I stopped giving it to her :shrug:

There is supposed to be a balance of good to bad bacteria - if something upsets the balance, either way, it will cause problems.

Melinda
July 7th, 2009, 03:09 PM
I'm glad it all checked out well, but there has to be something, can stress keep causing this??

breeze
July 7th, 2009, 03:10 PM
I'm glad it all checked out well, but there has to be something, can stress keep causing this??

I know in Bree's case it can, among other things..

breeze
July 7th, 2009, 03:11 PM
There is supposed to be a balance of good to bad bacteria - if something upsets the balance, either way, it will cause problems.

the thing is finding the right balance :o sometimes thats hard to find

Golden Girls
July 7th, 2009, 03:17 PM
ok thank you both I will tell this to my vet and see what he says, mind you I'll have to re-read it several times :laughing:

Melinda I'm beginning to think it might just be a "quiet" stress, sadness. She really perked up and even did the bow thing to the cats all excited wanting to play and I haven't seen her do that since Mist.

I'm waiting of course but over the next few days I may just consider fostering a lil kitten in need as I totally fell for a certain black little tough cookie as well.

Hopefully that would kill two birds with one stone k did I just say that :laughing:

kandy
July 7th, 2009, 03:18 PM
the thing is finding the right balance :o sometimes thats hard to find

Yup. And so many things can throw that balance out of whack!! :shrug:

Melinda
July 7th, 2009, 03:20 PM
YES!!!!! you said it and I'm going to copy and paste it *L*

kandy
July 7th, 2009, 03:20 PM
ok thank you both I will tell this to my vet and see what he says, mind you I'll have to re-read it several times :laughing:

Melinda I'm beginning to think it might just be a "quiet" stress, sadness. She really perked up and even did the bow thing to the cats all excited wanting to play and I haven't seen her do that since Mist.

I'm waiting of course but over the next few days I may just consider fostering a lil kitten in need as I totally fell for a certain black little tough cookie as well.

Hopefully that would kill two birds with one stone k did I just say that :laughing:

Fostering a kitten may not be a bad idea. If Brandi is just stressed and depressed, a kitten would surely bring her out of that.

breeze
July 7th, 2009, 03:22 PM
GG I forgot to answer your question on Bree.

She is doing better, I still have to give hercooked mince meat with the grinded kibble with the digestive enyzimes and gloutimne cause she will not eat otherwise.
she also gets a treat of some other suff that is good for her

but:

take out the mince = no go

take out the grinded kibble and just add kibble= no go

put in NON grinded kibble with the mince meat =no go


so it looks like she will get this until the next eposode

breeze
July 7th, 2009, 03:23 PM
Yup. And so many things can throw that balance out of whack!! :shrug:

like eating helicopter in the spring :frustrated::frustrated:

Golden Girls
July 8th, 2009, 09:12 AM
GG I forgot to answer your question on Bree.

She is doing better, I still have to give hercooked mince meat with the grinded kibble with the digestive enyzimes and gloutimne cause she will not eat otherwise.
she also gets a treat of some other suff that is good for her

but:

take out the mince = no go

take out the grinded kibble and just add kibble= no go

put in NON grinded kibble with the mince meat =no go


so it looks like she will get this until the next eposodeGlad she's doing better but sigh I'm not UTD when this began with Bree but what tests or test is your vet suggesting next if not better soon?

The specialist suggested if it doesn't improve to consider (don't know proper name) scope with camera

breeze
July 8th, 2009, 10:13 AM
Glad she's doing better but sigh I'm not UTD when this began with Bree but what tests or test is your vet suggesting next if not better soon?

The specialist suggested if it doesn't improve to consider (don't know proper name) scope with camera


We have discussed the scope but with Bree's intolerant to some meds we really don't want to go that route.

I oped to go the food and supplement route. it will probably take longer ( and I might lose patients sometimes, but I feel this is the right choice for Bree.

She is eating, no more blood, and 90-95% solid poop ( yesterday and today), and has lots of energy :thumbs up the only thing is she is only going (poop) once a day ( not sure if this is a good thing or bad)
just her taste in food is weird..we all have different taste in food, why would hers be any different :laughing::laughing:

How is Brandi doing this morning??

:fingerscr:goodvibes:

breeze
July 9th, 2009, 08:23 AM
updates ????

any improvement ??

:fingerscr:goodvibes:

Golden Girls
July 9th, 2009, 08:36 AM
I'm also opting trial and error with food. Smaller portions more often. Nothing extra! I've never had to supplement b4 and as Kandy said her intestines must be a mess and need healing

She now has a yeast infection but we woman know that antibiotics will do that thank DAWG for Monistat, poor baby

I'll update if she ever has a solid one :yell:

Glad to hear Bree is doing well, has energy and no blood. Some pup's are just fusier then others :shrug:

breeze
July 9th, 2009, 08:43 AM
Hang in there GG

hang in there Brandi..


the first time Bree had this it took 4 months to find a food, it was

"simple solutions" and another month before her system finally calmed down and having solid poops


this time 2 months for both. Hopefuly there won't be a next time..

:fingerscr:fingerscr:goodvibes::goodvibes::grouphu g::grouphug:

Golden Girls
July 9th, 2009, 09:32 AM
Hang in there GGYou too Bree and Breeze :highfive:

the first time Bree had this it took 4 months to find a food:eek: blocking my ears :eek: I feel pretty good with the decision to switch her to Senior Orijen :fingerscr wait and see kinda thing.

Rottielover
July 9th, 2009, 11:47 AM
Harley was diagnosed with IBD, it is not an easy thing to deal with. I did trial and error with the food, and he is on metroznidole quite a bit, especially spring summer and fall.
Harley is on one type of food now, and only allowed certain treat.
Probiotics and plain yogurt.
If anything else is fed, we are back to beginning.
I hope you find something that will work for both dogs, GG and Breeze, not easy, been fighting this for 3 1/2 years :(

Animal-Princess
July 9th, 2009, 12:48 PM
I would also try putting Extra Virgin Coconut Oil in her food. This stuff is AMAZING. You can buy it at any Health Food Store, it's not really cheap, but as I said, it's AMAZING. You can put 1 tsp per 5kg, just melt some in the microwave and then measure it out. You can then drizzle it into her food. You will also notice other changes, such as her coat will get shinier, her breath will smell better and other things like that. It should also help with the poop thing. Please give this a try and then let me know. I do this already for my pets and it works great.

kandy
July 9th, 2009, 04:44 PM
For dogs, salmon oil (or other large, cold water fish) is a much better choice for omega 3 supplementation than a plant based oil. Dogs have a harder time converting the omega 3's derived from plant sources.

chico2
July 9th, 2009, 05:19 PM
GG,I don't know anything about all this,just hope you can make Brandi all better:pray:
After the heartbreak of losing Misti,we don't want anything to be wrong with beautiful Brandi:fingerscr

Golden Girls
July 10th, 2009, 10:00 AM
RL For sure it hasn't been easy but thanks. :goodvibes: Harley

AP I've heard great things about Virgin Coconut Oil perhaps when everything's stabilized I'll opt to try it. Thank you for your input :)

Kandy: I give sardines :yuck:

Chico you and me both no clue :shrug: Very heartbroken still as I'm sure she is. I'm trying to change our routine a little, walk different paths, streets I also relocated Misti's ashes. I'm spiritual maybe her presence isn't helping neither of us. Hope Mist understands it's just for awhile :sad: but thanks Chico for your kind words.

On a pawsitive note I've decided to foster that lil spunky kitten of Cpietra's in the hopes of it being a failure. I'm a bit nervous because I have no clue what to do with a kitten but I think this one will have no problem showing both me and Bran the rules :pray:

chico2
July 10th, 2009, 04:38 PM
GG,that's great,but I think you should foster the two kittens,double the fun:thumbs up
Maybe that's what Brandi needs,some little companions after losing Misti:confused:
You know if you come here,we'll answer all your questions about kitties.

Golden Girls
July 11th, 2009, 05:36 PM
I don't have any questions yet but this kitten is too adorable for words :cloud9:

He kept hissing at Brandi in the car ride home but hasn't since. If he doesn't see me he meows and very loud for such a small thing guess he's just missing him mom and littermates. But I just need to pet him and he purrs, just awesome.

Brandi isn't sure yet. They haven't quite walked by each other yet, both very aware of each others presence. It's alot of fun though

chico2
July 11th, 2009, 05:47 PM
Awww,he's home already,he is the cutest little guy,I probably would have picked the boy too,if I could not take all three.
I expect to get daily reports of the progress between Brandi and the kitty:thumbs up

Golden Girls
July 11th, 2009, 05:58 PM
Most definately :) The three littermates are very pretty amazing colours. I chosed him although very affectionate he's quite spunky. He follows you around like a dog just way cute.

I am wondering I showed him where his litterbox is but he hasn't went yet. It's been over 4 hrs, he ate, nibbled on Brandi's and drank. Being so young you think he'll remember where is it rather then me keep sitting him in it, he looks at me like :confused:

chico2
July 12th, 2009, 07:58 AM
GG,in my experience with kittens,I put them im the box once and they know where to go.
I was thinking the covered box might be the problem,if he's not used to it:confused:
I never used a covered box,so I don't really know..
So,what's his name...:cat:

kandy
July 13th, 2009, 01:56 PM
Well congrats on the new addition! Hopefully he's figured out the litter box thing by now. :)

Melinda
July 14th, 2009, 08:19 AM
Kandy, I called GG Monday to find out how it went, poor her, she was just sick over it all and is heartbroken because the foster didn't work out....she really tried, she was so exhausted from handfeeding the kitten, I think it was just too lonely for its mom, littermates and colony that it wouldn't sleep except for mini catnaps, it wanted moms milk, it was still nursing when she picked it up and I think perhaps the kitten was stressed because it wouldn't use the litter box, you know GG, she wouldn't give up on a whim and it really hurt her to have to return it. She thought it the funniest little bossy kitten *S* she did everything right, but to no avail

Golden Girls
July 14th, 2009, 08:46 AM
Thanks for updating Melinda :sad:

So,what's his name...:cat:Tasmanian Devil :laughing: so adorable I was completely smitten Both him and Brandi were perfect together, little bugger just wasn't ready quite yet IMO Unfortunately I have to work and he didn't allow me to put him down without crying very loudly :o

CPietra was right he'd of done better had I taken two but that was just not possible at this time. Sending :goodvibes: they all find homes soon.

btw Brandi is doing better not 100% but her feces came back negative again so we just wait and hope

How's Bree these days Breeze :goodvibes:

breeze
July 14th, 2009, 08:57 AM
Thanks for updating Melinda :sad:

Tasmanian Devil :laughing: so adorable I was completely smitten Both him and Brandi were perfect together, little bugger just wasn't ready quite yet IMO Unfortunately I have to work and he didn't allow me to put him down without crying very loudly :o

CPietra was right he'd of done better had I taken two but that was just not possible at this time. Sending :goodvibes: they all find homes soon.

btw Brandi is doing better not 100% but her feces came back negative again so we just wait and hope

How's Bree these days Breeze :goodvibes:

Brandi is doing better?? :highfive::goodvibes::goodvibes: I'm so glad to hear this. little by little.......now that she is off the medicine maybe her system can go back to being normal for her.:fingerscr

Bree is much better ( knock on wood or my head which ever is closer) I am decreasing the grinded kibble and uping the solid kibble, she is still eating so this is good:thumbs up but I am still adding the mince meat.. one thing at a time. *sigh* :thumbs up:thumbs up

sorry the kitten didn't work out :sad:

Golden Girls
July 14th, 2009, 09:06 AM
Thanks Breeze Glad Bree is doing good too :pawprint:

chico2
July 14th, 2009, 02:37 PM
GG,so sorry you could not keep the little guy:sad:but I am sure there will be others at cpietra,maybe not as young..

rainbow
July 14th, 2009, 03:17 PM
I've been gone for so long and since this thread is 4 pages long I had no intentions of checking it out yet but just accidently clicked on it. :D

I didn't read it through thoroughly but just wanted to say that when I was checking out zinc deficiency a while ago because of Logan I remembered reading something about IBD dogs not absorbing zinc properly.

I'll see if I can find the info again and if I do I will post it in a new thread.

Hope Brandi and Bree are continuing to do well. :goodvibes:

Golden Girls
July 15th, 2009, 09:38 AM
That's ok Chico there's never a shortage of animals looking for a home.

Thanks Rainbow, any info would be great

rainbow
July 15th, 2009, 02:57 PM
GG, you may have already read the article I mentioned but I just posted the information in this thread as I didn't want to hijack yours ....

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=801216#post801216

breeze
July 16th, 2009, 08:59 AM
How's it going today GG :fingerscr:goodvibes:

Golden Girls
July 16th, 2009, 09:10 AM
Don't ask, I'm so fed up that I can't get it under control. The article is really good but where to start

Can't keep adding or deleting or I'll never get it right :confused: The one thing if I didn't know before, no rice. I give up :shrug:

breeze
July 16th, 2009, 09:23 AM
I understand, I was there, and every morning I keep my fingers crossed that Bree doesn't go back.

what are you feeding Brandi now??

what about going back to the begining.

Cooked mince meat and digestive enzymes ?? nothing else for three days

Golden Girls
July 16th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Sorry my post sounded so crabby, frustrating as you know.

Maybe it isn't food related, she has always ate anything and everything. I'm still home cooking and changed nothing, just adding a bit of kibble to it. Same as last week yet she was better :shrug:

Maybe enviromental?

breeze
July 16th, 2009, 09:36 AM
Sorry my post sounded so crabby, frustrating as you know.

Maybe it isn't food related, she has always ate anything and everything. I'm still home cooking and changed nothing, just adding a bit of kibble to it. Same as last week yet she was better :shrug:

Maybe enviromental?


thats ok, I've been there..I have sat down and cryed my eyes out, out of fustration. trying to find a solution.

anything is possible. something is not agreeing with her, but what?? thats the ultimate question isn't it..:grouphug::grouphug:


have you tryed to take out the kibble for a few days?? if that is the only thing you changed. maybe try that, I know with bree sometimes I can change little things and all is good for a week or two then it turns on us and we have to go backwards.

rainbow
July 16th, 2009, 03:12 PM
Does the kibble you are using have any rice in it?

chico2
July 16th, 2009, 04:46 PM
Aww GG I am so sorry,it's frustrating beyong words,when you don't know what's wrong.
I:pray:Brandi will be ok,that it's nothing serious:fingerscr:goodvibes:

kandy
July 16th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Sorry to hear that Brandi still isn't better. I remember very well how frustrating it was to have my son's newf with constant diarrhea and not being able to figure out what the problem was. Hopefully the IBD article will give you some insight.

I'm sorry about the kitty too. Maybe sometime in the future you can try that again - any kitty would be lucky to get you as a momma.

rainbow
July 17th, 2009, 04:24 PM
GG, I don't know if you've read this website but there is tons of information on it and if you click on the stuff written in blue it elaborates even more ....

http://www.dogaware.com/specific.html#ibd

Click on "IBD, IBS, Colitis, and other Gastrointestinal Disorders" ....the IBD info is a little over halfway down the page.

Golden Girls
July 19th, 2009, 08:38 AM
Rainbow I did read the article it has excellent info, thanks for posting it. In reply to your earlier question no Orijen Sr doesn't have any rice :thumbs up

Brandi fasted for about 24 hrs on her own. So I decided no pumpkin, no probiotics, no fortiflora. Added Orijen to extra lean minced meat X 3 daily and that's it ... drumroll it's been solid since that one last explosion.

Maybe it just took awhile for the antibiotics to kick in and/or took longer to replimish the good bacteria who knows. It's now solid and I'm so excited.

Thanks so much Kandy for helping me through (emails & msn'g) to read ingredients properly. SG Hollisque Blendz is a good food just too grainy for my liking. Thanks everyone as well for your knowledge/help and good wishes :grouphug:

I hope Bree is still doing good :goodvibes:

chico2
July 19th, 2009, 08:57 AM
GG,that's great news:thumbs upI certainly know how exciting solid poop is:thumbs up

Rottielover
July 19th, 2009, 09:20 AM
GG. just out of curiosity, has she ever been tested for pancreatic issues, they have the same symptoms as IBD. When Harley had his blood work done, some of his levels were too low, others too high, so they assumed it was pancreatic insufficiency. after many more trips, we found out was/is IBD.

breeze
July 19th, 2009, 02:43 PM
WOOHOOO Brandi :thumbs up:thumbs up

I am soooo glad she is feeling better.. :grouphug::highfive::highfive:

Bree didn't eat this morning :sad: that's what I get for saying that she was/is doing really good.. that will teach me. we will wait until supper :fingerscr

rainbow
July 19th, 2009, 03:21 PM
GG, YAY for Brandi :highfive: ....what a relief for you and hope she continues to do well. :pray: :fingerscr :goodvibes:


Breeze, :fingerscr :fingerscr that Bree eats tonight. :grouphug:

kandy
July 20th, 2009, 11:45 AM
I'll keep my fingers crossed that Brandi continues to have good poops! :)

rainbow
July 20th, 2009, 02:59 PM
Yes, we need our daily poop updates. :D

:fingerscr :goodvibes: for Brandi



Breeze, did Bree eat last night and this morning? :fingerscr :goodvibes:

breeze
July 20th, 2009, 04:14 PM
Yes, we need our daily poop updates. :D

:fingerscr :goodvibes: for Brandi



Breeze, did Bree eat last night and this morning? :fingerscr :goodvibes:


:goodvibes::goodvibes: for brandi!! :grouphug: and you


nope and 1/2 this morning.

but she ate her supper tonight:thumbs up

chico2
July 20th, 2009, 04:41 PM
Breeze,that's great to hear,we don't want anything to happen to beautiful Bree,or Brandi:pray:

Golden Girls
July 20th, 2009, 06:53 PM
Rainbow daily poop updates lol but in all seriousness constant diarrhea is a nightmare, who would of known? Reading others that have gone through this somehow makes me feel better :o not a pleasant topic though

Breeze so happy to hear Bree ate her supper :) :goodvibes: for the both of you!!!

Thanks guys I was afraid to post in fear of jinxing but so far it's been perfect :thumbs up I'm up'ing the kibble and adding less meat. She seems to really like the Senior Orijen and it appears to be aggreeing with her ... phew!!!!
GG. just out of curiosity, has she ever been tested for pancreatic issues, they have the same symptoms as IBD. When Harley had his blood work done, some of his levels were too low, others too high, so they assumed it was pancreatic insufficiency. after many more trips, we found out was/is IBD.Not sure? She had a complete blood count, I'll assume if her pancreas was in trouble it would show high/low? I'm also assuming the UltraSound would should inflammation or at least obstruction which it didn't :shrug:

With all the tests she has had the only thing that was questionable was the white cells found in her urine which we still dont have an answer for :shrug: I plan to have her urine retested but at this point I'm scared to ask the vet any questions, it's cost over $1200 so far and no answer.

It's now firm and that's totally good enough for me :)

breeze
July 20th, 2009, 07:12 PM
GG Like hazel you need an "anti jinx" to be able to say good news so you won't jinx it.:frustrated::p:D
Hazel has some good ones or you can make your own, but just be sure you say it BEFORE an update

:laughing::laughing::laughing::D


:goodvibes::grouphug: for continued improvement and that you never ( ok I should never say never) go backwards.:thumbs up:thumbs up

just thought you or maybe I needed a giggle

breeze
July 22nd, 2009, 09:54 AM
how is brandi doing..

still good poop??

:goodvibes:

Melinda
July 22nd, 2009, 11:04 AM
while you're answering poop questions...*S* and I hope/pray Brandi is doing better, could you please empty your inbox? *L* you're full

Golden Girls
July 26th, 2009, 09:28 AM
Yay still good! How's Bree :goodvibes: Melinda thanks :)

Frenchy
July 26th, 2009, 11:47 AM
It's now firm and that's totally good enough for me :)

wooohooo it was about time !!!! :thumbs up

rainbow
July 26th, 2009, 02:04 PM
GG, YAY for Brandi :highfive: ....I'm so glad to hear that she is still doing well. :thumbs up



Breeze, how is Bree doing? :fingerscr

breeze
July 27th, 2009, 09:46 AM
this is great news!!! :highfive::highfive:



so glad to hear this..:goodvibes: for continued good news.:thumbs up

Golden Girls
July 30th, 2009, 11:01 AM
Thanks, she's had a few bouts here and there but overall she's cured of whatever it was :shrug: Just awful for owners that have pets with IBD :sad:

How is Bree doing Breeze, still good ? :fingerscr

kandy
August 4th, 2009, 02:22 PM
I'm glad that Brandi is finally doing better!!!! I wouldn't worry about the presence of the white blood cells in her urine sample. It could have been from that whole area being a bit irritated from all the diarrhea - when something is causing an irritation, the body responds by sending white blood cells to form a protective layer. Doesn't necessarily mean there was an infection present, and if there was - she was on antibiotics for long enough that it should've taken care of anything that was there.

Frenchy
August 4th, 2009, 03:30 PM
Funny thing about diarhea is that it comes and goes and sometimes , we don't know why. 2 weeks ago , Nelly had it for 2-3 days, then it was Sienna and now it's Bailey :confused:

I have stopped trying to figure this out a long time ago :frustrated:

but yea for Brandi !

Golden Girls
August 5th, 2009, 07:03 PM
Thanks Kandy & Frenchy, sorry though your having this problem :sad: I too give up trying to figure ok what did she eat yesterday or the day before blah blah - it can drive you mad

Hope it just passes :goodvibes: