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dog/child incident

Kristin7
June 8th, 2009, 09:36 AM
Hi All, It's been awhile since I've posted, not a lot of time these days for message board's, unfortunately (hi to anyone who remembers me!). But after yesterday, I felt I should make time and get some advice from experienced dog owners/parents.

Here's what happened: My friend was visiting for the weekend w/ her 5 year old son. We were all inside and my dog was outside by the screen door wanting to come in. The child hit the screen several times and my dog thought he was going to get hit. He snapped at the air and barked at the boy. The boy reacted by hitting the door more and getting aggressive. Apparently he has done this before, hitting and kicking animals who react negatively to him (hissing, barking, snarling, etc). After he moved away from the door, and his mother was 'reasoning' with him, I thought it was safe to let my dog inside. The child immediately went after him and hit him. At that point i decided it was best to let my dog back outside but the way out was past the kid. I managed to get the dog outside but not without him recieving another kick. Needless to say, my dog was not happy and did growl at the child, though only when he was kicked and hit. I did not see if he snapped, but no one was bitten or hurt. I am afraid he'll now be even more wary of kids (he is generally friendly, but is wary of them and not around them much). And I am very annoyed with my friend for letting her child behave like this around animals. It's alarming, I've never seen a child act like this. He could get seriously hurt or killed if he hits/kicks the wrong dog. My friend actually said she wished my dog had bitten her kid, to teach him a lesson! I really don't want my dog being in that sort of situation and never want him to bite anyone. Any advice?

bendyfoot
June 8th, 2009, 10:13 AM
Your friend is being an irresponsible idiot IMO. :frustrated: I'd be FURIOUS if someone pulled that kind of stunt. I don't care if it's an adult or a 3 year old, NO ONE should ever hit/kick a dog, and if it is a 3yo it's the parent's responsibility to teach them properly. Your dog was justified in growling...he was issuing a well-deserved warning to that brat to smarten the heck up...that shows restraint, so good on your poor pup.

I'd do two things:

1. arrange for your dog to meet/spend time with some gentle, well-mannered children who have been taught how to properly interact with dogs, in order to create more positive experiences

2. Tell your friend that if she wants to come over, she either has to keep the kid away from your dog or leave the little booger-head at home :frustrated:

aslan
June 8th, 2009, 10:21 AM
Someone was hurt, your dog. I personally wouldn't give the friend an option anymore. If it was my friend she'd be told her child is not welcome in my home. Obviously she doesn't teach her child right from wrong, and your dog should have to put up with being abused. I am no where near as patient as you, i would have warned the mother once, and if nothing was done, i don't care about the law, that child would have been put over my knee. No children shouldn't be smacked, but dogs shouldn't be abused either. I will choose my animals any day.

Kristin7
June 8th, 2009, 10:48 AM
Thanks for your replies, I am definitely not going to allow him near my dog until I am sure he will treat animals with respect. This may take several years... too bad, but I really don't like to be put in that sort of situation, or potentially have my dog be used to 'teach a lesson'. The thought of my dog possibly biting a child scares me and I've failed my dog if I let that situation occur. I would never hit someone else's child, but see your point. I did speak rather sternly to him and told him not to hit my dog (twice), but he did anyway. In response, he was not allowed to watch his DVD's on the 6 hr drive home. :rolleyes: But nothing was done while the situation was ongoing, to control the boy. She has no authority over him, that's apparent. He has behaved this way with their family cat and also other visiting (but much smaller) dogs.

Unfortunately I don't really have any friends or family nearby with well-behaved children for socializing. My dog gets along well with my older niece, but is somewhat wary of younger children. He seems more scared than anything. He is around toddlers only a few times a year, but does have some generalized fear issues, including wariness of strangers, especially bigger men. Perhaps if I could work on that, he'd be better with kids all around. He's never bitten anyone, but don't want that to ever happen.

bendyfoot
June 8th, 2009, 10:52 AM
You can start providing your dog with opportunities to socialize very easily...just take walks in town that expose him to new people. Walk by a playground and watch the children. Have him say hello to as many new people as possible on a regular basis.

BenMax
June 8th, 2009, 10:53 AM
Reading this post just got my blood boiling but directed at that mother.

Your friend is irresponsible and very naive. This kid needs some old fashion disciplining.

I would tell your friend that she is welcome to your home, but if that kid is around your dog - you want the brat muzzled and umbilical corded to her waist. Seriously - I would NOT allow this behaviour. It may hinder your relationship with your friend, but explain to her that this dog is YOUR child and what is happening is intolerable and unsafe.

aslan
June 8th, 2009, 10:59 AM
It's really kinda sad you know. Because the child acts this way with animals he'll never know the joys of cuddling up with a fuzzbut for a nap, etc. I've lucked out with both sisters and their children. They were very hands on in educating them to be nice to the doggies. You could try to deal with the child without the moms assistance. My nephew were both talked to about, would you like it if someone kicked, poked,smacked you. Would you like it if the puppy bit you cause you hurt him/her. etc. Part of the problem is children that aren't taught don't seem to understand that animals have feelings too.

Bendyfoot's suggestions are excellent, just walk him in area's where there are people. Not neccessarily mix with them at first. just get pupper used to them.

kiara
June 8th, 2009, 11:06 AM
You must tell your friend that this cannot happen again. This child is quite agressive for a 3 year old (a terror in the making). If he wants to come over again, he must behave and be gentle with your dog. His parents should have used this situation as a teaching tool. Give him another chance, maybe it will turn out fine. Actually 3 is becoming an age of reasoning.

Golden Girls
June 8th, 2009, 11:14 AM
Hi and welcome back Kristin7 :)
And I am very annoyed with my friend for letting her child behave like this around animals. It's alarming, I've never seen a child act like this. He could get seriously hurt or killed if he hits/kicks the wrong dog. My friend actually said she wished my dog had bitten her kid, to teach him a lesson! I really don't want my dog being in that sort of situation and never want him to bite anyone. Any advice?This child needs serious discipline which he's obviously not getting any. The sad thing is if your dog did bite in defence he could be in danger of been pts :frustrated: or you getting fined and having him being muzzled for life. It wouldn't be up to her to make that complaint it would be the hospital's duty to call Animal Control. IMO though he's 5 that's just scary, not his fault but still scary. Good for you for not ever allowing him back to your home. Agree with the other's to walk by parks so he could hear/sense children laughing/playing and areas where they're alot of people.

Kristin7
June 8th, 2009, 11:16 AM
The scary part is that he is actually almost 5, not 3. Old enough to know better. They do have 2 dogs in the family, and no issues with them. But the cat has had some problems, as have other dogs. They have tried spanking and he hits back, so that stopped. Reasoning doesn't work either, he just doesn't listen. My take is that he needs some counseling (they all do), because this just isn't normal behaviour. The discipline is not nearly strict enough, he actually acts out more when his mother is around than at other times. He is quite spoiled and an only child. He hits adults and other children, too. I don't like being around him myself, because of the hitting and tantrums, but tolerate him because I'm friends with his mother. But a line has been crossed. I am more and more angry thinking about it today.

I will try and get my dog out more. He has always been fearful of strangers, but has gotten much better over time. Maybe it will never go away, but do think he could improve more.

Jim Hall
June 8th, 2009, 11:19 AM
wellhopefully thr brat will not lose a limb when he tries that on the wrong doggie :loser:

BenMax
June 8th, 2009, 11:20 AM
Kristin7 - I feel for you. It is difficult as you obviously cherish your friendship with your friend.

I remember my daughter at age 3. One day she did not get her way, so she took a broom and hit my cat with it. Guess who got a taste of that same broom? You got it.

She is now a young adult who is also an animal advocate (gee I wonder where she gets that from???):laughing:

There is hope for this little kid, but I think you are right - he needs professional help.

Golden Girls
June 8th, 2009, 11:24 AM
He has behaved this way with their family cat and also other visiting (but much smaller) dogsThis speaks volume. What defence does their cat have :sad: except run and hide everytime this boy is within sight :shrug:

aslan
June 8th, 2009, 11:46 AM
Ok back to the pupper issue. I find dogs are fearful of what they're rarely exposed to. My big boy is very timid of men as he isn't exposed to very many. The two or three he see's on a regular basis he is great with. This fear led to a very unfortunate and dangerous occurance a week ago. Since then we've been going out of our way to introduce him to more and more males so he can see they are almost as good as his mommy's. The more you expose your little one the one he'll come around. Getting others to give him treats will work wonders too.

14+kitties
June 8th, 2009, 12:02 PM
Along with all the great advice you are getting from other members please see what you can do to get that poor cat away from him. He will end up killing it.
That child has issues that will only get a lot worse if not dealt with now. He is 5. Not a baby! :frustrated:

Golden Girls
June 8th, 2009, 12:06 PM
I thought the same thing 14+ Maybe you can talk to your friend?

ownedbycats
June 8th, 2009, 12:15 PM
Without having actually met the child, and not being any kind of an expert, I will say that this is not normal behavior, not even for a very spoiled child. I used to babysit a child who acted much like this (temper tantrums, hitting back when spanked, etc.) It turned out he had a form of autism, although it took several years for it to be diagnosed. You need to protect your dog from this child, but your friend needs to have a specialist, who knows about these kinds of problems spend some time with her child if at all possible.

kiara
June 8th, 2009, 12:16 PM
Sorry, I got the age wrong. The child is 5 and this issue has to be addressed maybe with a child psychologist, if the parents can't cope. Agression is often a sign of frustration. Maybe this child has something going on in his life that he cannot deal with and is taking it out on helpless animals??? Very spoiled children want everything their way, because this is what they are used to. Often the parents are too easy going and they don't teach their children that every action has consequences. Luckily this dog is gentle, but another dog may bite and the child may pay the price of his parents' lack of teaching skills. Where is the father in all this, is there a father involved in the child's upbringing? Children often take advantage of a single mother or parents that are not a united front. Give this child another chance and use your gentle dog as a teaching tool. This situation may turn around in a very positive way.

Love4himies
June 8th, 2009, 12:17 PM
Along with all the great advice you are getting from other members please see what you can do to get that poor cat away from him. He will end up killing it.
That child has issues that will only get a lot worse if not dealt with now. He is 5. Not a baby! :frustrated:

You are absolutely correct. This child needs serious help now, before it gets out of hand. It is just not normal for a child of 5 years to want to hit an animal. At that age, the norm would be to want to give a pet hugs and kisses. I would not allow the child back into my house because if your dog bites him, it is your dog that will be the loser.

Good luck.

Mat&Murph
June 8th, 2009, 12:41 PM
Wow I just read this and I am stunned!! I have 4 kids ages ranging from 10 to 4 and None of my kids are like that with any animal. They are very gentle and soothing to my boys and any other pet for that matter. My 4 year old does get confused sometimes about the difference in size (from a 160 lbs mastiff to a 5 lbs kitten) so she needs reminding to be gentle but they would never tease,kick and hit a animal. It makes me very sad that this mother is giving all small kids a bad name with allowing this to continue.

BenMax
June 8th, 2009, 12:55 PM
Without having actually met the child, and not being any kind of an expert, I will say that this is not normal behavior, not even for a very spoiled child. I used to babysit a child who acted much like this (temper tantrums, hitting back when spanked, etc.) It turned out he had a form of autism, although it took several years for it to be diagnosed. You need to protect your dog from this child, but your friend needs to have a specialist, who knows about these kinds of problems spend some time with her child if at all possible.

You are absolutely right ownedbycats. Very good points.:thumbs up

Kristin7
June 8th, 2009, 01:05 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions. I did talk to the mother right after the incident, she said he only responds to things being taken away from him (like the DVD player). However, that really doesn't help while the situation is going on. I suggested spanking.. but it wouldn't have to be that, just restrain and move him out of the area. And work with him on the aggression - this should not be tolerated at all, like i'm sure they don't tolerate him playing in the street. I'll try and get ahold of her and mention possibly having him evaluated. He does have a father, who does discipline, but often uses anger while he's doing it. Probably not helping, nor does it help they don't get along w/ each other very well (the parents). I hope he does not hurt the cat, without being around them, I'm not sure what the abuse entails. I would take the cat myself, if necessary. They live about 2 hrs from me, so I only see them occasionally, often without the father, who doesn't like to travel much. The boy used to be very sweet and much better with animals, but the last year or so has begun responding aggresively to animals or people who he perceives as having hurt him in some way, or just not liking him at the moment (like my dog barking at him, or a cat hissing). For example, one time we were around a larger group of people, he was running around and tripped over someone's foot (older woman). He thought she did it on purpose and came at her to hit her. Luckily my friend was able to get ahold of him before that happened, but he was not apologetic and still wanted to attack the poor woman, who had done nothing wrong. He throws huge tantrums if he does not get his way, his mother is definitely lenient, and not at all an authority figure.

I did tell my friend my dog would be the loser if he bit her child - she said she would not press charges and would lie to protect him. That doesn't comfort me much, I doubt her husband would go for that, plus, what about my poor dog, being put in that situation to begin with? What would he learn from that? nothing good, and now I will worry about him around my nieces or other small children, he'll be more scared than he was before. I will take him out more to parks, and carry some treats with me.

Jim Hall
June 8th, 2009, 01:22 PM
ahhh so thats it the whole family need to see a consuler i feel rally sorry for the kid

Diamondsmum
June 8th, 2009, 01:24 PM
Oh dear.. what a sad situation with an 5yr old.. & the animals/people/he encounters. I hate to see what school life is gonna be for him :sad:

As for the situation that caused him to get an reaction from the dog in the first place.. (Banging on the screen several times) That to me should of been a sign for a) Mom or You to get up & deal with it right then & there.. I am sorry but someone banging on my door is going to get a reaction from most dogs. (Mine included)

redirecting his attention from that moment may of saved your stress & the dogs too.

my .02

lia12
June 8th, 2009, 01:34 PM
Have to agree with everyone's opinions here. No one with a 5 yr old child acting this way would be allowed in my home unless they all saw a psychiatrist. This kid is a menace and terror. He might be picking on animals today but in the future it will be humans. I can just imagine what he would do to an animal if he was alone with it, what if his mom had not been there this time, or you? This kid is heading straight for big trouble and needs help NOW, as in last year ....

Kristin7
June 8th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Yes, 2 of the adults in the room did immediately speak to him instructing him to stop hitting the door. One of them was myself, neither of them was his mother. I then went over to the door and told him to stop it. Things get somewhat blurry from there. I was not aware he would do that to a dog he did not know very well, and who is bigger than he is. The other animals he's hit have been quite small in size. His mother should have taken ahold of him and punished him sternly right there, I was stunned that she wasn't in control, though should have known better, having been around them in the past. Yes, I feel bad for all of them, but can't really do anything except make suggestions and hope they get some help (and keep my dog away from the kid). And I don't have to put up with the boy, but really don't know much about kids and would rather not punish someone else's kid, and wouldn't probably be able to deal with this one appropriately anyway (I would likely lose my temper, it wouldn't be pretty, and my dog actually handled it better than I would). He has been in preschool and had problems because he was hitting other kids all the time.

catlover2
June 8th, 2009, 06:43 PM
RED FLAG This child is in need of some psychological assessement (maybe the mom too!). Childhood animal cruelty may be a precursor for criminal behaviour, or indicative of a disorder.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-4376778/Childhood-animal-cruelty-a-review.html


Humane Society of U.S. "Children & Animal Cruelty: What Parents Should Know" http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/first_strike_the_connection_between_animal_cruelty _and_human_violence/children_and_animal_cruelty_what_parents_should_kn ow.html

lUvMyLaB<3
June 8th, 2009, 06:53 PM
I understand your situation.. I find it very sad that kids are not taught to respect animals at a young age, soome kids are never around dogs, and then they don't know how to treat them, some hurt them and think they are just things and others will be terrified, it is a good thing for people to expose kids to animals of all kinds when they are still small.

Once I took my lab to school to pick my girls up, the kids were outside playing baseball when I got there, so I took my dog to go watch. We stood well behind and away from where they were. A few kids came up to see her, along with them was a boy, who was 8 at the time. He came over, called her like he was going to pet her then kicked her in the face, hard! I was SO UPSET!! I could not believe it, this was a kid that had me my dog before, and has a dog, although they are not the best dog owners.. But to me it was shocking. He got in a lot of trouble at school, but his mother never made him apologise or anything, like it was no big deal, my poor dog, she willingly went to this boy, that is sad going up to someone that wants to see her thinking she will get a pat, and then gets a kick in the face...

Kristin7
June 8th, 2009, 09:03 PM
Kicked in the face?! that is so sad, your poor dog, I hope she was ok!

Yes, they do all need some counseling, but of course, I can't control that. Maybe if I say he can't be around my dog anymore, it will make an impression on her and at least I could have some influence. I hope they get some help, obviously whatever they are doing or not doing is not working. You're right BenMax, I do cherish the friendship. She is my longest term friend, over 20 years. I really don't enjoy being around her son anymore, or watching people be in a bad relationship. I worry about their pets, and hope my dog forgets. It is good to know he reacted as many dogs would, especially ones who aren't around kids much.

ps hi GG and thanks for the welcome back! I should post more often, you all have such great advice :)

luckypenny
June 8th, 2009, 09:14 PM
That child would not be allowed into my house again regardless if his mom is a good friend. Not only is your dog put at risk, so is the boy. Keep them safe, keep them away from each other.

As for other more gentle children you know, teach them, with the help of their parents, how to properly greet a dog. Arm them with lots of yummy treats and allow your dog, at his own pace, to take them if he wants. Watch your dog's body language carefully for cues as to whether or not he's comfortable.

Try googling 'children and dogs safety.' You'll find all sorts of valuable information on socializing your dog and teaching safe, appropriate behavior to children. Never, ever, leave young children, especialy ones that aren't your own, with your dog for any amount of time unsupervised.

I'm sorry you both had to experience this.

Shaykeija
June 8th, 2009, 09:28 PM
I really hate kids like this...potential serial killer in the making...Makes me wish their birth control hadn't failed....

Tundra_Queen
June 9th, 2009, 02:29 AM
I am so sorry to hear about what happened to your poor dog. You have gotten good advice here. If it was me, I would of told the kids to go and sit down and stood in front of the screen until he did. I would also tell the mom that he wasn't welcome in your house until he learned how to be around animals. Then the next time they come over, lock the dog in the bedroom to protect the dog. I have a very short fuse when it comes to someone being mean to animals and 5 year olds know better! My animals are my kids and they come first!

Maybe your firend's son has ADD with anger problems or opossitional Disorder?

Debbie

Kristin7
June 9th, 2009, 07:57 AM
I'll be more aware in the future, though don't plan on being around this boy until something is done, or much time passes. There won't be a next time anytime soon! Since they don't live near me, this will be relatively easy. I made the mistake of assuming the mother would get him under control, and thought he was by the time I let my dog in. I was shocked by the way he went after my dog in anger, to hit and kick him. By the time i recovered from shock, my first thought was to remove my dog from the situation, so that's what I did. Looking back, everything happened very fast. But believe me, if there is a next time, i'll be on the lookout and better prepared to deal with the kid myself. If I was a parent, I might be more comfortable with disciplining kids, but don't have them, nor am I around them much (I am as comfortable with them as my dog is), and there are no friends or family nearby with kids. I'll talk to my friend, she probably also suspects her son may need some help.

Golden Girls
June 9th, 2009, 08:17 AM
I'll talk to my friend, she probably also suspects her son may need some help.It's a delicate topic but being friends for so long hopefully it'll be viewed as constructive criticism :goodvibes:

Getting back to their cat situation could you not explain to her as well that their cat is at high risk of getting hurt and more then likely terrified? Maybe we could help by referring a rescue group in her area?

Love4himies
June 9th, 2009, 08:21 AM
I really hate kids like this...potential serial killer in the making...Makes me wish their birth control hadn't failed....

Or a wife abuser.

Melinda
June 9th, 2009, 10:42 AM
children act out what they see or experience, spanking, smacking or putting a child across your knee will become so commonplace and expected to the child that he will begin to think this is a way of life, the parent smacks him, he yells, cries (makes himself heard) and the parents shush him, cuddle him etc , so he's happy, he has attention, the child figures, well I can do it to an animal, get it going...thats fine, thats commonplace, its not mean or cruel because its done to me by parents that love me...understand?
I've had many children placed with me that were very cruel or just didn't know how to act around animals, thats why they were placed here with my "zoo", so they would learn other forms of punishment for things they do wrong "time out, firm corrections" and at the same time see rewards given for being gentle with the animals here, helping to groom and feed them. most have turned out wonderfully, but like this little one it could be a form of autism or mental problem, I do hope they get help for him.
Just make sure your dog is around good children for awhile that will pet and treat him, the suggestion about walking him near parks and school yards was a great one. sorry to go on and on, but any form of "smacking" or physically punishing children just gets my dander up *S*

BenMax
June 9th, 2009, 10:50 AM
I don't know Melinda - I can remember as a child getting a smack. And look at me...I turned out pretty good..........(ok never mind, don't answer that!):)

You are right BUT I don't think taking away a toy is the answer either. Time out is a joke so nix that one.

Bottom line is the kid needs a professional assessment. Something just is not right here.

Melinda
June 9th, 2009, 10:57 AM
Time out in a daycare setting is not a nice thing to be in BenMax, if you were a smoker and everyone around you got to sit there having a smoke and you couldn't......or a drinker etc...you know what I mean? here during time out they are placed where they see the others playing with toys...or doing a craft and they are excluded....a lesson like that sinks in pretty fast.
and I was also smacked as a child, a tap on the hand or butt usually is enough to get the attention of a child. and I agree it will not work on all children. But physical punishment is not what is needed in 50% of the cases, like you say, an assesment is needed on that percentage

*and I won't answer about you being smacked *LOL* nuff said:rolleyes:

Golden Girls
June 9th, 2009, 11:05 AM
Good points Melinda :thumbs up Whatever the problem is or isn't with this little boy the only thing this mom should do seeing he doesn't respect animals then remove their cat (edit omg I just read they have two dogs too) and not allow him near any animals. When he can learn that an animal is a gift not a means to let out frustration maybe but not until

IMO removing the DVD player as a punishment ... I so see a 5 yr old not being able to connect the dots

Love4himies
June 9th, 2009, 11:47 AM
You are right, Melinda, children will do what they learn. This child AND parents need to learn how to rechannel their frustrations/anger to a more civilized manner rather than violence. A child who grows up not knowing how to do this, does turn into a partner/child/animal abuser.

Melinda
June 9th, 2009, 11:57 AM
you know how they say a tired dog is a good dog? well the same can be applied to a child, enough video games, get out and about, interact with families and pets, I have my daycare kids involved in stuff almost every minute of the day whether it is mental stimulation or physical, get them involved, take the time with a child to teach them the proper way to interact with a dog, I have the kids here put brina through her paces daily, they love knowing they can make her sit, lay down, "dance" and shake a paw, then they are allowed to treat her. Maybe next time your friend is around with her child, get him to put your dog through its commands and show him how much fun it is to be a friend to the dog, let him understand that if the dog is afraid of him it won't play nice next time it see's him. Hopefully the mom will catch on also.

Rottielover
June 9th, 2009, 12:19 PM
Too bad you were not closer to me, we could have used my daughter. LP and Frenchy have met her a few times with the dogs and very well behaved with them too.
I feel for your dog, he had no way to defend himself without snapping.
That child never again in the home, and I agree with the rest, family counseling, ways to discipline correctly, and many more things to learn.
I am sorry you had to go through it

3GirlsDad
June 9th, 2009, 12:36 PM
I have had a similiar issue and it has created some issues. My oldest dog, who is quite large but only 18 months was teased and hit with sticks by my brothers children. I caught them in the act and my brother did discipline his kids. He is not one that does not believe in spanking. It has however created issues with my oldest in the fact that she just plain does not trust children. Honestly I am very hesitant to let her be around them. I dont know if dogs can talk to each other or what but she has passed on the information to my younger 2 that kids arent to be trusted. We have to watch them very closely as well. We try to get them around kids as much as possible but its a scary situation as all 3 of my dogs are ober 100 pounds and i want no issues whatsoever. When my brother visits from out of town now, we dont bring the dogs with us if we go see him. Its a shame but he knows why we dont bring them. Its not to protect just his kids but also to protect my dogs.

Mat&Murph
June 9th, 2009, 12:55 PM
great post 3girlsdad, I don;t let my boys near kids I don;t know or trust. 160lbs of dog can be scary if something god forbid happens

Kristin7
June 9th, 2009, 05:08 PM
Good points Melinda :thumbs up Whatever the problem is or isn't with this little boy the only thing this mom should do seeing he doesn't respect animals then remove their cat (edit omg I just read they have two dogs too) and not allow him near any animals. When he can learn that an animal is a gift not a means to let out frustration maybe but not until

IMO removing the DVD player as a punishment ... I so see a 5 yr old not being able to connect the dots

Yes, they have 2 dogs. One is very old and won't be around much longer. He basically just sleeps all the time. The other one is great with kids, and tolerates everything. The scary thing is, they are planning to get another dog (puppy) next year - a Great Pyr mix. I worry about the cat, but have lots of time to work on that. They are leaving on vacation for a couple months, so the cat will be safe with the petsitter and away from the boy.

That's so true, the DVD player/misbehavior connect is likely lost on this one. Something like that does nothing while the situation is ongoing (boy is hitting the dog, like he really cares about the DVD right then). Time outs do not work with him either, they try this as well. There are times I would spank, and in this one I would have (if he were mine) just to take his attention away from the animal and gotten him somewhere safe - to me it is much preferable to do this than have a child mauled or killed by a dog. My parents spanked us, it can be done effectively, though agree it will not work with everyone. The way mine did it, they made is feel terribly guilty at having to spank us, explained they didn't want to do it and all. It was more humiliating than anything. I only remember being spanked twice. That said, from what I've seen, in that family, the spankings would have been presented probably in a different way, and done in anger.

I only wish the mother had been in control of her son - she doesn't seem to know any effective way of doing this, and what bothers me a lot is that she was willing to let my dog handle it his own way, even if her son was bitten. I'll be keeping that in mind for any future encounters we have with children and be prepared to take control.

I hope the boy can learn, he's still young and has lots of opportunities, as they do have their own pets (unfortunately) for teaching. Maybe he's just going thru a 'stage'... still, from what many others say, it sounds like this isn't normal behaviour, and he's going to end up seriously hurt or hurting others.

3GirlsDad - that is exactly what I'm afraid of for my dog. I'm not thrilled about testing him out on other people's kids either. If I have to, I'll keep him away from children in general, though would much rather he be better socialized with them. There are lots of parks nearby, so will be walking him around places like that, and hope that works.

kandy
June 9th, 2009, 07:03 PM
Wow. Your poor dog!

I would strongly advise your friends not to get a Pyr, not with a kid that thinks it's okay to abuse animals. The kid will end up hurt and the dog will pay the price. Of course I wouldn't advise them to have any animals of any kind around a kid like that. Without some kind of intervention, his behavior will escalate, whether that is becoming the school-yard bully or torturing small animals, it will escalate.

I personally don't agree with the no physical punishment theories. I was abused during my childhood and there is a huge difference between abuse and punishment. My son was spanked, and in fact the spanking was the only thing that worked for him. My stepfather giving me black eyes, or leaving holes in my back from throwing me against things on the wall - that was abuse. Making my kid bend over and grab his ankles so I could paddle his butt was not. My son did not hurt animals or develop any other deviant behavior because I employed physical punishment. He did however turn into a fine young man.

If you want your dog to learn that kids are good, be careful of having her around large groups of kids that you have no control over. If the kids descend upon her as a group, it could make her fear even worse. I think I would go to one of these parks and solicit a small group of children to maybe help you with her training. Or perhaps ask your vet or a local dog trainer if they know of children that could help you.

dullmau
June 29th, 2009, 06:16 AM
what's more detestable is not the kid, but his parents who actually put the kid in a danger unknown to him yet. That's unacceptable.

some parents are really annoying. I have a "hello friend" whose 6-year-old kid stole the food from my dog's bowl in my yard. I didn't even invite him to come. Ya know what, after his mother found it, she blamed me for putting the dog bowl in my OWN yard, threatened that if her son had a diarrhea problem i had to pay for his medical cost, and she received all backfire she deserved. That's ridiculous.

sasha101
July 13th, 2009, 06:51 PM
:lightbulb: wake up Mother!! one of the first things I taught my kids when we got a dog. Dogs don't have hands, they cant hit back, so whats the first thing they use ?? Should that have been one of my kids after the second time of kicking the dog, they would have got a spank, if only for the reason of saving their faces when they pick on the wrong dog. Its not your dog that needs the discipline hon its the child and mother.