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Rant .. why don't vets know this?

Golden Girls
June 6th, 2009, 07:04 AM
Titer testing ...

It's said over 95% of dogs tested a satisfactory immune response (Parvovirus CPV) + Distempervirus CDV, includes Lyme & Coronavirus) that has received it's puppy vaccinations and one-year boosters. The cost is between $40 - $100 depending on your vet.

Interesting http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/titer_test.htm

More and more I'm reading that over-vaccinating can create vulnerability to illnessess and chronic conditions such as anemia, arthritis, seizures, allergies, gastro & thyroid disorders (which btw mine both had & have the 2nd, 4th, 5th & 6th) and their vet knows this geesh!

AND if the titer indicate your dog has a low immune just a "booster" could do it ... so

why then doesn't vets suggests titer? Never mind $, don't they make an "oath" that they want to help our animals lead healthy lives? Should there be a label before adopting an animal one must be a cerfitified vet otherwise you risk bankrupsy or what?

I always get that little card in the mail time for vaccinations? I've expressed concern to him last year and of course it's up to me but he said they're needed every two years and even moreso because we walk in Angrignon Park (forestry)

Brandi's shots are now due but I'm opting for the titer test instead. Does anyone do just a titer test rather then annual vaccinations? Thoughts?

luckypenny
June 6th, 2009, 08:30 AM
It's said over 95% of dogs tested a satisfactory immune response (Parvovirus CPV) + Distempervirus CDV, includes Lyme & Coronavirus) that has received it's puppy vaccinations and one-year boosters.

Our vet took the time to explain this to us as well as the dangers of over-vaccinating. It's been 2 years since their last vaccines (with the exception of Lepto since our recent move to the country) and I plan on having the titer testing done next year for each of them.

We wouldn't vaccinate our children so frequently without giving some serious thought to side-effects, why would we do so with our pets :shrug:?

flipgirl4
June 6th, 2009, 09:22 AM
At my clinic, titer testing is the same price as a vaccine but you have to run a titer test for each individual disease. Many vets don't know how to accurately interpret a titer test and will probably have to be trained more. That's my theory.

Longblades
June 6th, 2009, 09:18 PM
I think this is why some are going to vaccinate every 3 years instead of annually and instead of the expense of titre. To be extra cautious it might also be good to stagger the vaccines but then you run into the difficulty and expense of getting them unbundled.

TacoGrl
June 7th, 2009, 07:56 AM
It's the same reason people go to the doctor's for antibiotics every time they have the sniffles and then wonder why the drugs don't work :rolleyes:

TeriM
June 7th, 2009, 02:42 PM
Many vets don't know how to accurately interpret a titer test and will probably have to be trained more. That's my theory.

I agree. We ran titres for Riley and my vet just kinda rolled her eyes at me. When the results came back she was talking about how hard the numbers are to interpret but later I found that basically as long as the titre actually measures a number that is basically all that is needed :shrug:.

I would not do rabies until Riley passed six months and did it as a seperate shot from any others shots or procedures.

I also don't think the onus is all on the vets here. A lot of people only ever see the vet when it is shots time. I think an annual checkup with blood panels is a good idea once a dog is about five years old (earlier if any health issues) even if we don't get vaccinations.

Golden Girls
June 7th, 2009, 05:01 PM
LP Makes sense, I like your vet :thumbs up

I called yesterday the girl never heard of a titer test so she suggested I make an appointment for a check up then ask him but Brandi just had her check up last week.

So I then called (some know this vet) Greenfield Park, no appointment, no problem $40. In the above link it says if they do not have a titerchektm test kit in-office be certain your vet sends blood samples to a major professional vet lab which here they do so I'll ask if they can mail me a copy of the results as I too am crossing the border soon.

It also says when measuring titers all that needs testing is CPV and CDV which will indicate "markers for the competence of the dogs immune system" - testing anything else is a waste of money.

Re Lepto, because there's an increased migration of wildlife in suburban areas if any Montrealer's want a reading of our rivers and creeks - it's tested weekly: http://www.rsma.qc.ca/rsmaweb/rsmaqrc.asp

Melinda
June 7th, 2009, 06:05 PM
Daisy contacted lepto in the field beside us where the deer run

Golden Girls
June 8th, 2009, 10:52 AM
Yes I remember :sad: :rip: sweet Daisy

Since reading up on this topic seeing Brandi's shots are due my head's exploding with so much information :eek:

Melinda I realize in some areas there are outbreaks of lepto but the Minister of Wildlife ? or whoever do inform the public right? Here we have tons of racoons, squirrels, skunks and foxes that live in Angrignon Park that can carry lepto but wouldnt it show it the water our city tests weekly?

Melinda
June 8th, 2009, 12:07 PM
no, it wouldn't show in the waters GG, not running water, a stagnet pond perhaps...blood samples are taken periodically from deer (killed during hunting season), and wildlife put down for one reason or another, eastern ontario is known for lepto

lia12
June 8th, 2009, 12:26 PM
Our vet knows about titers, for some reason it seems to cost more. But I get reminders when the shots are due but I don't go in for them and the vet never resends. They knows my feelings on shots and respect my opinion. I haven't had shots on my dogs for over 8 yrs now , not even rabies although by law we are required to get them every 3 yrs. Vets are realizing the dangers of these shots, especially rabies so they doesn't push the issue. When I take my dogs in for a consult or yearly physical and weighing the vet doesn't mention shots, I think they know most dogs are immune for life after the puppy shots.

Golden Girls
June 9th, 2009, 08:18 AM
no, it wouldn't show in the waters GG, not running water, a stagnet pond perhaps...blood samples are taken periodically from deer (killed during hunting season), and wildlife put down for one reason or another, eastern ontario is known for leptogot it :p thanks We go along the St Lawrrence River from Crawford to the end of Verdun all summer long allowing her to swim and it eases me I can check that our waters are clean and safe. I don't allow her anyway in the waters at Angrignon which there is one little lake and a few ponds.

Marty11
June 9th, 2009, 09:20 AM
Iv'e heard about the titer test, I think it's a good idea. I swear it was after my dog's 6 month booster that she started to scratch and has been ever since. They tell me that allergies from vaccines don't last that long. She is almost 2 now. I will not vaccinate her ever again. I will do rabies every 3 years cause it's law. That's it.

kandy
June 9th, 2009, 03:38 PM
I've read quite a bit of information on titer testing and vaccinating. One study that I read concluded that for most dogs, the rabies immunity lasted for at least 7 years and the lead scientist was convinced that it's more of a lifetime immunity - like small pox used to be for humans. You got vaccinated once, you were covered for life. My vet found a lab that will run the titer tests for me. She doesn't have the equipment and agrees with me on the over-vaccination. I decide on a yearly basis what vaccines I want them to have. None of them has had a rabies shot since their puppy booster. I get the little cards in the mail, and if I go into the vet for something, the tech will ask me - but they never try to talk me into getting any needles.

Last year I called around to different vets in the area asking if they could do titer testing. Some of the receptionists had no clue what I was talking about, and one actually lectured me on not vaccinating according to law. Pfffffttttt.

I plan to take my titer test results to our city council and ask to have the laws changed on city dog tag registration to take titers as proof of immunity. Right now none of my dogs have city tags because they require the yearly vaccines.

Golden Girls
June 10th, 2009, 09:05 AM
I plan to take my titer test results to our city council and ask to have the laws changed on city dog tag registration to take titers as proof of immunity. Right now none of my dogs have city tags because they require the yearly vaccines.Good for you :goodvibes:

Here you do not need proof of rabbie shots when buying their yearly licences.

I've always given their shots, gawd forbid something by accident was to happen and she wasn't UTD she'd of been put into quarantine for 10 days?, hopefully titer testing is "proof" enough = she's "healthy"

I also wondered about crossing the US border with just the titer test results :confused: I got an email reply but haven't read it yet :fingerscr

Longblades
June 10th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Here it's not the law but if something by accident was to happen and she doesn't have her UTD rabbie shot she'd be put into quarantine for 10 days?, hopefully titer testing is "proof" enough = she's "healthy"
You are in Montreal and rabies is not required by law? Did I misunderstand?

Please be sure you know EXACTLY where you stand on rabies. Rabies is required by law in most places in North America because it is deadly to humans, not just pets. If your up-to-date on rabies vac. dog (or cat) bites someone the dog can be quarantined. Because Vac.s are not foolproof. Just catching a rabid bat was cause for local authorities to require my work colleague's fully vac. dog to be quarantined. She didn't bite anybody.

I HATE TO THINK what might happen if you cannot supply proof of vac. and your pet bites a human. Your pet could be put to death to see if she has rabies because at that point the speed of ascertaining whether or not a deadly disease had been transmitted to a human will take precedence.

There is a three year rabies shot for dogs and cats though my VEt will use only the 1 year on cats because of the link to cancer at the vac. site in cats receiving the 3 shot. Not the same problem with dogs.

Please do not rely on titreing until you have assured yourself that the authorities will also. In writing. I think you will find they will not.

Golden Girls
June 10th, 2009, 09:50 AM
My dogs have always been UTD with their shots, please refer to my post # 1 just so I don't repeat :)

Longblades
June 10th, 2009, 10:17 AM
Yes, I did see your post #1 but I thought your other post was asking WHAT IF she was not UTD and you had the titreing results? I was addressing that. Please take my "you" and "your" as being generic.

I'm sorry, but what did you mean by, Here it's not the law?

Golden Girls
June 10th, 2009, 10:20 AM
ok I wasn't clear in my reply to Kandy. Where she lives they cannot license their dogs unless they have proof of vaccinations. Here in Montreal we do not is what I meant :)

Longblades
June 10th, 2009, 10:48 AM
Ah, I see. :) I can't license my dog either, unless I provide proof of rabies vaccination. For that purpose the 3 year shot or the 1 year shot will do. Cats aren't licensed here.

Golden Girls
June 10th, 2009, 10:52 AM
:) I edited that post because I clearly seen I wasn't clear :D

This is the response I received when asked whether or not titer test's is good enough to cross the US border

Crossing the Canadian Border with pet‏
From: anima_questions@inspection.gc.ca
Sent: June 9, 2009 9:47:30 AM
To: wendi01@hotmail.com
Cc: CFIA, WebMaster (CFIAMaster@inspection.gc.ca)

Hello Wendi,

Thank you for using our website.

Contact directly the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) regarding the importation of your dog to the United States; 404-639-3311, with simply the result of a titer test.

To enter Canada:
In your case the following regulation applies,

We require a Rabies Neutralizing Antibody Titre Test (RNATT) resulting in a titre of at least 0.5 IU/ml, taken at least three to four weeks after any prior rabies vaccination. (It can be from previous years) Or you can use FAVN-OIE Rabies Antibody Test. We require a result of a titer of greater or equal to 0.50 IU/mL.

The animal must be properly identified on the laboratory report and the lab report must accompany the animal when it travels to Canada.

You will need to do the above test and obtain the result as described. Unfortunately, the dog would not be able to travel to Canada if the import condition is not met.

You will also need an import permit to go along with the titer test.

Here is a link to the different Animal Health offices where you will be able to obtain a permit:

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/anima/heasan/offbure.shtml

Kind regards,
Claire Bellefeuille

Canadian Food Inspection Agency /
l’Agence canadienne d’inspection des aliments
Tel: (613)225-2342
Fax:(613)228-6630
Email: anima_questions@inspection.gc.ca

Melinda
June 10th, 2009, 11:00 AM
Wendi, I think they have it backwards *L* they gave you the info for entering Canada, not the USA, the dummies

Golden Girls
June 10th, 2009, 11:02 AM
LMAO I c says the blind man. At least they gave me a number to see if we could go into their country :D

You know I'm almost ready to give it up already and give her the damn rabbie shot

Melinda
June 10th, 2009, 11:06 AM
try emailing one more time.....put in capitals "ENTERING USA"

luckypenny
June 10th, 2009, 12:20 PM
What you were sent was the requirements for crossing the Canadian border, which is what you'll be doing upon your return ;). You have to contact the CDC for the specifics you need to cross into the US.

Golden Girls
June 12th, 2009, 08:34 AM
What you were sent was the requirements for crossing the Canadian border, which is what you'll be doing upon your return ;). You have to contact the CDC for the specifics you need to cross into the US.I :D'd because that's who I contacted, the CDC "Bringing an Animal into the United States" :)

I resent another email to the CDC with the same question and this time their reply was: "This type of question should be addressed to your vet. The CFIA cannot provilde any medical advise" again :D

Basically it's not going well but I'm giving up ... well, yet

If for nothing else hopefully this thread with help others who may want to know whether or not you can cross the border or not with only titer testing ... the answer would be at this point who knows :laughing: or, maybe someone has - anyone out there? :shrug:

Thread # 21 says: Contact directly the CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) regarding the importation of your dog to the United States; 404-639-3311, with simply the result of a titer test. The correct number is 404.639.3411 I've left a message so I'm waiting to hear from them.

In any event here's their website: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dq/animal/dogs.htm#dogs

Meanwhile my vet's tech (whom I love) called me yesterday and said she agrees completely doing titer testing over vaccinating of my girl seeing she already has a few health problems. She will also write me a letter if needed explaining the results if that would help.

Their price for these tests: Distemper & Parvlo $103 + taxes Rabies 270 + taxes as well as a check-up before $54 + So in all it would be close to $500

I will either opt for the Distemper & Parvlo and just do the Rabies shot or do it all and her and I stay home :sad:

Love4himies
June 12th, 2009, 08:41 AM
Wow 270 dollars for a rabies shot?????

I think I just paid 40 for Sweet Pea (feline)

Golden Girls
June 12th, 2009, 08:43 AM
The price quoted was for the titer testing

Longblades
June 12th, 2009, 08:51 AM
Isn't rabies the only one you need to have proof of? I found this:

http://www.immihelp.com/immigration/pets.html

and this:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dq/animal/index.htm

Don't rely on this though, check it out yourself. I wish I'd thought, at obedience on Wednesday night a lady in our class was telling us about a trial she just returned from in the States. She'd know, I guess. Now, if I knew her name, and not just her dog's name, I could call her for you. But there's an idea, any competitors nearby you could ask?

By the way, your posting of the requirements for coming into Canada were helpful to me as a family member may be importing a pup.

Golden Girls
June 12th, 2009, 08:59 AM
The only vaccination that's required by law is the rabbies correct but vet's suggest every other year to get both rabbie & distempter. This way you titer test just the distempter (if you don't want to risk the border matter) that'll be one less vacc (security for you that your dogs not at risk)

I'm happy to hear the link will be useful.

Longblades
June 12th, 2009, 09:09 AM
OH, gotcha. I think there are two different ideas being hashed out in this thread.

What vaccinations, or proof of, do you need to get into the USA with your dog?

And

What vaccinations do you need to keep your dog safe from disease and satisfy regulations, border crossing regardless?

I'm up to speed now. I think. :)

Golden Girls
June 12th, 2009, 09:16 AM
lol ya one topic rolled into the other because it was the time year for her vaccinations as well as we want to go on vacation soon.

Last year we went twice to Jersey, June and August and I not only had proof of their rabies, I had a vet letter stating their healthy and regularly seen by the vet. At the border they kinda test their behaviour and both wagged their tail so they passed. But you have to be careful bec if one feels they look ill you can be refused entry.

Thank dawg I only gave them their "gravol" pill after entry

Golden Girls
July 19th, 2009, 08:22 AM
Anyone interested I'll update what I've learned.

If you want to go the titer way rather then giving the rabbie shot you will need to be approved *exempt* prior to crossing/returning borders which takes approx + 2 months

1. Contact US Border Specialist Export NY 518.457.3502 Dr Allain LaJoie
2. Dr Andre Anttic 514.283.3815 X 4210 2001 University 6th floor Mtl (very pro vaccinations) Afterall our gov't IS responsible for diseases which I'm all for ... so I questioned the amount of puppy mill puppies coming/going through borders unvaccinated but he said for commercial purposes it's all good. You just need to be registered and voila you can transport all you want, unhealthy who's checking ... what a system!

In any event Titer Test must be above 0.5 pet must be microchipped letter from your vet stating why your pet CANNOT have their rabbie shot. The reason can only be if the vet visually seen your dog having epilepsy, has caused any illnesses such as arthitis, strokes due to vaccinations. I can see all vets lining up just waiting to write such a letter :rolleyes:

You also need to bring your pet to him (Dr Anttic) where he must also give medical evaluation of your pet.

Basically it's next to impossible to get "A note of Exemption" for travelling purposes.

So stay home or *inject poison*

I strongly believe when our pets have been fully vaccinated the 1st year ... their immuned for life, it's not that I don't want to protect her or others.