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Pitbulls

moontamara
August 11th, 2004, 02:24 AM
Hello pitbull owners! Lots of threads about pitbulls and BSL lately, and it has me wondering what the deal really is with pitbulls. If there already is a thread about this, let me know how to find it, and I'll take this one off.

I've been one of those people who say things like "What kind of person would want to own a pitbull?" and that's partly due to the news, of course, and also due to what I've seen of pitbull owners - almost all have conformed to the redneck stereotype one my expect.

Yet, those of you who are posting on this forum are EXTREMELY responsible pet owners, and obviously love your pitbulls and are not raising them as weapons!

If pitbulls are safe, why all the legislation against them? Also, why are there so many homeless pitbulls?

Educate me! I seriously don't know anything about this issue, beyond the hype from ten years ago.

Thanks!

LavenderRott
August 11th, 2004, 07:09 AM
I don't own a pit bull, but I do a lot to fight BSL so I will try to answer. Since I have been up for going on 24 hours and I just got home from work, please forgive me if my spelling stinks or you can't quite understand something I have typed.

Pit Bulls were originally bred to fight other dogs a couple of hundred years ago when people were not so worried about animal cruelty issues. The goal was to make a dog aggressive dog that was very game and wouldn't give up unless it died. On the same token, these dogs needed to be handled by their "owners" so they needed to be people friendly.

All breeds of dogs bite people. My son was bit by a chi mix last week! But lets face it, there is a big difference between being bitten by a chi and being bitten by a pit bull. Even an idiot will tell you that the bigger the dog, the worse the bite. Not to say that toy breeds can't kill. A couple of years ago a pomeranian killed an infant in the U.S.

Anyhow, I stray.

The press would much rather cover a dog bite by a big dog that did lots of damage then a little bitty bite by a little dog. In the quest for ratings, they have discovered that the more morbid a story, the more papers they will sell or the more people will watch their news show.

Gangs want the biggest and baddest dogs. In the quest for this, they breed the most aggressive dogs to get aggressive pups. Because pit bulls are so game and so dog aggressive, they have become the dog of choice for most gangs. Thugs who are not in gangs are attracted to the "meanness" of the breed also. Pit bulls are often used to protect a drug dealers "product" knowing that without a gun, no one will be able to get passed the dog.

Then there are those people who are attracted to the loyalty of the breed to it's people. For the most part, these are people who have done their homework and realize that as a large working breed, these dogs need to be trained and have jobs. It doesn't matter what the job, so long as the dog is physically and mentally challenged. This makes for a healthy stable dog.

There are also those people who got the cute little puppy, and didn't bother to do any homework thinking that "it is just a dog". These people most often expect the dog to behave like Lassie without any training, be kind to their children even if the kids hit them and pull on their tails, and stay the size of the little puppy they picked out. These dogs often end up chained in a backyard, fed when they are remembered, unsocialized, bored, teased by neighborhood children and just ill equipped to deal with anything outside of their little world.

The other thing you need to remember is, it is not as easy to identify a pit bull as it is a poodle. Recently it was proven in court that the people in Denver, Colorado that were responsible for enforcing the pit bull ban, including a veterinarian or two, were unable to do so! Mix a labrador retreiver with any other short haired breed and I guarentee you that someone will say it is a pit bull. Try decide what breed of dog it is when you are being attacked!

Breed Specific Legislation is a knee jerk reaction to what the press is calling "an epidemic" of pit bull attacks. The fact of the matter is that there are no more dogs biting people now then there were 10 years ago. It is equally true that you are just as likely to have a plane fall out of the sky and kill you as you are to being the victim of a fatal dog attack.

sammiec
August 11th, 2004, 07:45 AM
Very good post LavR!!!

I for one have never had a predjuice against pits. My hubby's best friend owned one named Cosmo. I never had the chance to meet him, but I heard stories about this amazing friendly pit and everyone loved him, blah blah blah, right?... I was a bit leary, but I have never been one to really believe everything that I read. I accepted the fact that these dogs were mistreated and that it's virutally impossible to have a dog that is just born to be what the news says they are. They is MUCH more to those stories about pit bulls attacking.
In most cases the dogs are not socialized, unkept, miserable, tied out back. Many live their lives watching their "families" from afar enjoying each others company inside together while the poor dog is tied to a tree, spilling it's only water bowl and knocking over it's food. The poor dog is spinning around wildly on it's line trying to free itself to get inside with the family. This is NOT the dogs fault. As any breed of dog, they rescent the fact that they are tied there, aggression begins to overcome them and when they've spun just enough on the unkept rope it breaks and they are free! They go wild with pent up energy and unforunately it escalates from there...
These punk kids that are getting pit bulls are just doing it to present this image that they can't be messed with. All they care about it what others think of them. They want the badest meanest dog, but don't know the first thing about how to raise one. Other sickos thrive on this "bad boy" image by BREEDING BREEDING BREEDING! This poor dogs are breed over and over faster then you can say Pit Bull. They pump them out like a factory producing cars; because the profit is so great, they sell faster then when Nintendo first come out!!! It's a sick and demented circle!
So, now all these pit bulls are breed and the brat punks buy them up for (from what I heard on another board) $20 to $500. These kids take the dog home, their parents are mad, the kid is too busy smoking up and driving around in one of those ridiculously slammed Hondas; he forgets about the dog. It's sitting at home lonely and yelled at by his parents because they hate it. Next step - the shelter.
At the shelter, these people can't tell their butts from their mouths, everything looks the same! If it has short hair and medium build it's a pit! So now these kids are told to get rid of their dogs; so the "humane" ones drop their dogs at the shelter while the others just let them go.
Rescues are trying everything they can to help these dogs that have been given this unfair disadvantage, and they are getting pooped on left and right.
And BSL - it's just those suit wearing, golfing on lunch break, know-nothings at a desk (No offense) that make these by-laws. There is pretty much no research or investigating into this "epidemic" they just say - GET RID OF 'EM!!!

This post has gone on long enough and I'm getting frustrated thinking about it!! I hope some of this helped you out a bit!!
Here's some really good website to look at!!
BadRap (http://www.badrap.org/rescue/index.cfm) PBRC (http://www.pbrc.net/home.html) ItsAPitty.com (http://www.itsapitty.com/) The Working Pit Bull (http://www.workingpitbull.com/index.htm)

moontamara
August 11th, 2004, 04:12 PM
Very nicely done! Thanks guys -- I'll take a look at those websites too a little later. Sammiec, your pooch is a pit bull, isn't he? Or another kind of bull? I've also heard that pit bulls are incredibly smart animals and can make excellent crosses, but that might be another thread, another day!

Lucky Rescue
August 11th, 2004, 06:00 PM
"What kind of person would want to own a pitbull?

LOL! I was one the people who used to think that way. Naturally, like anyone who listens to the media and has never had any experience with these breed I thought they were just awful!

A little education and an introduction to a typical kissy-faced wiggle-butt changed MY mind, but good.

My pit bull is the ultimate example of what a pit bull should be. (temperamentally) She LOVES everyone and anyone.

She is not really good with other dogs, especially big RUDE ones, so I keep her on leash at all times when we are out and tend to err on the side of caution.

It's funny, but she never instigates trouble with other dogs, but has been lunged at, growled at, and barked at by all kinds of dogs, from toy poodles to a terrifying GSD at the vet.

alpha sheltie
August 12th, 2004, 06:05 AM
LavenderRott pretty much covered what I would have said.

I'm not kidding when I say this, I've met more badly behaved chi's and minpin's than Pitties.

The shelter I volunteer at is loaded with "mean" breeds (HAH! More like lovable goofballs!). In all honesty, my Sheltie is worse with people than most of the pits I've met at the shelter. I think the vast majority of dogs at the shelters are Pits because people really don't research like they should. People go out to buy a mean dog that will protect their house, yada yada yada but they end up getting a dog that will lick you to death instead. What the heck are they going to do with a friendly (perfect) pittie? Why send it to the shelter of course!

They're probably the most friendliest breed I've met. I've been snapped at by a JRT, Schnauzerx, Minpin, Sheltie, Lab, Gsd, etc, etc but I've yet to come across a human aggressive pit bull (not saying that there aren't any though).

I can't wait til I move out and adopt a Pittie of my own! :D

sammiec
August 12th, 2004, 07:40 AM
Sammiec, your pooch is a pit bull, isn't he? Or another kind of bull? I've also heard that pit bulls are incredibly smart animals and can make excellent crosses, but that might be another thread, another day!

Moontamara: Yes, Briggs is an American Pit Bull Terrier (APBT). There are 3 "kinds" of pit bulls. Staffordshire Bull Terrier (Staffy) and American Staffordshire Terrier (Am Staff.) . They are all members of the pit bull "family". If you go to workingpitbull.com (one of the sites that I provided a link for) you can see the differences in the three types. I am often questioned about her breed. Many have no idea exactly what a pit bull looks like. The APBT is not quite as stout and boxy like the Am. Staff. so people don't think that she is pit bull. That's fine with me, but even people that have no idea are still very leary.
These dogs are incredibly loyal - to all humans, unfortunately even the ones that don't deserve it.
Like Lucky I have been VERY blessed with a dog that has GREAT temperment, Briggs goes NUTS for children, just LOVES them! And she has never snapped or growled at another dog (yet :rolleyes: ), but that doesn't mean that I can let my guard down. If she feels threatened and in an uncomfortable situation, she will do what she has to to defend herself.
That's why I had posted in another thread how I don't feel that this is a breed that you buy for your kids. Sure pit bulls would probably take better care of them then a human, but it's VERY important to have an educated owner that is able to tell when this dog has had enough.
I strongly believe that bylaws regarding the age required for owning a dog - not just pits - should be enforced. I believe that NO ONE under the age of 18 or 19 should own a dog. (That's speaking from my own experience as well.)

Babs
August 12th, 2004, 10:02 AM
In essence, owning any breed of dog requires responsible ownership. But in actuality, there are fundementally 3 kinds of dog owners.

1) People who buy a dog and research their breed thoroughly, actively train and socialize their pets with people and other animals, and provide them with loving, nurturing home environments.

2) People who buy a dog, but don't research their breed, train them sporadically or not at all (tie or leave them out in backyards), do not socialize them with other people or animals, and may think they're providing them with loving environments but in effect are creating a lonely environment for their pet.

3) People who buy a dog and treat it as a weapon. Be it for self-defence, or agression, these people regard a dog no differently than someone would regard a gun.

The first type of person will be inclined to own just about any kind of dog. Some people like big dogs, other medium, some small. They may be drawn to appearance, characteristics, or just about anything. Every dog type has a good story, and good features about the breed that can be brought out under the right circumstances.

The second type of person is generally looking for a family or personal pet. Again, these people are drawn to appearance and characteristics, but they will generally avoid the stereotypical media-bred "aggressive breeds" because they are unwilling to do any research. These people assume that their Dachshunds, Cocker Spaniels, Labs and Llasa Apso's will grow up naturally to be little darlings... and are commonly mistaken.

The third type of person is looking for a dog where fear is associated. These people will specifically seek out a dog with a record for brutality. The movies, newspapers and magazines have done a great job in publicizing Dobermans, Rottweilers, Pit Bulls, German Shepherds and Mastiffs as violent dogs, and the common weapon-seeker will be drawn to these most commonly. You will not see a person looking for a weapon-type of dog looking for a poodle, as an example, because fear is not associated with a poodle. However, the well-read weapon seekers will look for more uncommon breeds with similar records as well. These people provide cruel conditions which guarantee a dog will be agressive... in that the dog is constantly living in fear for it's safety and security.

The real problem is twofold.

1) Laws today are focusing on breeds, rather than the owner.

2) In many places there is no criminal punishment for irresponsible owners. Just about anyone can get a dog, whether they understand how to train it properly or not. There aren't harsh enough penalties for owners using dogs as weapons, and in many places, people found with such animals are allowed to become repeat offenders with little or no recourse.

Babs
August 12th, 2004, 10:12 AM
I would like to also touch on the myths about pit bulls. It has been disproven that not only do Pit Bulls NOT have a "locking jaw", it also reports that research has proven that it is difficult to accurately calculate severity of bite between different breeds. We "assume" that a bigger jaw means a harder bite, but also in actuality this is not true. Read on.

This information I got off another site http://www.austinlostpets.com/kidskorner/2October/pitbull.htm :

Pit Bulls speak - we are good dogs!

Most people, who are unfamiliar with the American Pit Bull Terrier, falsely believe that they are dangerous dogs. Unfortunately, Pit Bulls have a bad reputation because of some mean people who have abused their dogs and trained them to be aggressive. Pit Bulls are actually very stable, intelligent, and highly trainable. They are strong athletic dogs, and they require a guardian who is responsible and will give them plenty of exercise and training. They are very loving and loyal and make excellent animal companions.

Little-known facts about Pit Bulls:

Pit Bulls serve as therapy/service dogs. The Chako Rescue Association has Pit Bull therapy dogs in Texas, Utah and California. Helen Keller even had a Pit Bull as her canine companion and helper. Cheyenne and Dakota are a team of hard-working Search-and-Rescue Pit Bulls in Sacramento, California. They play an important role in their community by locating missing people in conjunction with the local Sheriff. In their off-duty hours, they do charity work as therapy dogs.

Petey, the faithful dog on the TV show, The Little Rascals, was a Pit Bull. He spent countless hours with children day after day and never hurt anyone. He was one of the most intelligent Hollywood dogs of all time.

There are quite a few celebrities who have Pit Bulls as members of their family including: Rosie Perez, The Crocodile Hunter, Judd Nelson, Usher, Alicia Silverstone, Cassandra Creech, Sinbad, John Stuart, Amy Jo Johnson, Linda Blair, Vin Diesel, and Bernadette Peters.

Pit Bulls are heroes!

America's first war dog was a Pit Bull named Stubby. He earned several medals during World War I and was honored at the White House. The Ken-L-Ration dog hero of 1993 was a Pit Bull named Weela. She saved 30 people, 29 dogs, 13 horses and a cat during a flood in Southern California. A Pit Bull named Bogart saved a four-year-old child from drowning in a swimming pool in Florida. Dixie, the Pit Bull, was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall of Fame after she saved some children from a Cottonmouth snake.

Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!

Dispelling some myths about Pit Bulls:

Is it true that Pit Bulls can lock their jaw?

The infamous locking jaw is a myth. The American Pit Bull Terrier and related breeds are physiologically no different from any other breed of dog. All dogs are from the same species and none have locking jaws. Dr. I Lehr Brisbin of the University of Georgia states, "To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparison to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs. There are, moreover, compelling technical reasons why such data describing biting power in terms of 'pounds per square inch' can never be collected in a meaningful way. All figures describing biting power in such terms can be traced to either unfounded rumor or, in some cases, to newspaper articles with no foundation in factual data." Furthermore, Dr. Brisbin states, "The few studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any breed of dog. There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of 'locking mechanism' unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier."

Are Pit Bulls naturally aggressive towards humans?

While many Pit Bulls do tend to be aggressive towards other DOGS (as are most terriers), the normal, well raised Pit Bull has NO human-aggressive tendencies! In fact, human-aggression was actually bred out of the breed. The majority of Pit Bulls are affectionate, intelligent, trainable dogs. In fact, the highest obedience trial record of all time is held by an American Pit Bull Terrier named Maddy!

Can Pit Bulls "turn" on people?

In fact, no breed of dog does. Dog aggression is nearly always preceded by some kind of warning, and there is always a reason behind the attack. However, many inexperienced owners do not recognize the dog's behavior as aggression, or refuse to acknowledge it as a warning sign. The only exception I can think of is Springer Rage, a rare and controversial neurological condition that manifests itself as a spontaneous attack, followed by confusion, and then a return to normal behavior. Pit Bulls are NOT prone to this condition. There are individual dogs of any breed that may be more aggressive to others.

Pit Bull quotes:

Pit bulls are famous, in circles of knowledgeable dog people, for the love and loyalty they bestow on anyone who shows them a smidgen of kindness.
--Linda Wilson-Fuoco, journalist

In my opinion, Pit bulls are the least likely to be human aggressive. On the whole, you have to do a lot of work to make them aggressive to people.
--Sue Frisch, Dessin Animal Shelter manager

Pit bulls are especially good at pleasing people since they are strong and smart, they learn quickly and they are very adaptable."
-- Rob Mullin, dog trainer, owner, "K-9 Wizard & Co." Trumbell, Connecticut


By Sonnet Dashevskaya - Spindletop Pit Bull Refuge, Austin branch

moontamara
August 13th, 2004, 12:29 AM
This thread is heartbreaking! I've taken a look at some of those websites, and I think I understand the issue now. I do believe that dogs ARE dangerous animals, and of course the stronger they are, the more damage they can do. However, it is definitely the owning of dogs that should be legislated, not the breeds -- not just because dogs can be dangerous, but also for the welfare of the dogs. Wouldn't it be great if there was some screening process, including training before being able to buy a dog? That would sure cut down on the impulse buying.

Lucky Rescue
August 13th, 2004, 09:56 AM
I do believe that dogs ARE dangerous animals, and of course the stronger they are, the more damage they can do. However, it is definitely the owning of dogs that should be legislated, not the breeds -- not just because dogs can be dangerous, but also for the welfare of the dogs. Wouldn't it be great if there was some screening process, including training before being able to buy a dog? That would sure cut down on the impulse buying

Any animal can be dangerous - even a Pom is capable of killing an infant, and the damage a housecat can do has to seen to be believed!

But for sheer dangerousness, ruthlessness and savagery, nothing can top the human species! :mad:

Babs
August 13th, 2004, 09:59 AM
^^^

Agreed!

glasslass
August 13th, 2004, 10:26 AM
Agree! Agree! Agree! :mad:

sammiec
August 13th, 2004, 10:35 AM
I 100% absolutely, positively AGREE!

It's those one liners like that!!! I don't know how anyone can win an arguement with you Lucky!

Lucky Rescue
August 13th, 2004, 01:28 PM
Here is a perfect illustration of PROPER pit bull temperament. This young purebred pit bull was obviously kept by dogfighters, thrown in a pit to fight, lost the fight and was dumped on the roadside in very bad condition. He is now in a wonderful and loving foster home.:)

Despite the terrible scars caused by cruel and inhumane treatment, he is still loving and trusting of all people! This is NOT true of many other breeds who can never overcome abuse and be trustworthy (including my own last dog)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/gypsykorea/RustyandSierra.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/gypsykorea/RustyandVenus.jpg

(Pictures used with permission)

foxynikky69
August 13th, 2004, 02:15 PM
use to have one, Loved her to death, it all depends on how u treat the dog, if u treated a golden retriver/ lab (which are supoose to be the friendleast dogs) badly they woudl probably bite to, n e dog can be aggrasive if forced to. So n e who thinks they shouldnt get one because they r to aggrasive, think again, they r so loyal and a friend for life ;)

ozactie_squrix
August 14th, 2004, 08:41 AM
My dog, Jack, is a lab/pit bull mix. He is the sweetest thing in the world!! I obviously don't at all agree with breed discrimination or anything, and I think it depends on the dog.

glasslass
August 14th, 2004, 10:37 AM
. . . and I think it depends on the owner!

Lucky Rescue
August 14th, 2004, 11:43 AM
. . and I think it depends on the owner!

Definitely!!

melanie
August 14th, 2004, 06:23 PM
lucky they are just beautiful pics, oh what a spunk. just want to say, the other day i met my first ever real american pitbull (red one apparently). i have never laid eyes on a real one so i was pretty interested in a meeting. his name is rocky, he is a pig hunting dog, and he lives inside on the couch. so i was a little worried at first, not enough to put me off, but i was thinking hunting dog and pitbull, and have always been scared of dogs so it was a little intimidating. anywho, i got out of my car, and was greeted by the cutest little man i have ever met. he was just adorable, he kissed me straight away and tucked his head under my arm, he was all wagging bum and tounge and nothing else. i was a little surprised, but overjoyed to meet such a happy chappy. he cuddled me for about an hour while i was there, i was told he just loved woman more than anything. he also had a little mate who was a ****-zu and they get on smashingly. so there i go, i have met one, and can say that it was a fun, loving and fantastic meeting and he was the nicest little boy around. :D

Lucky Rescue
August 14th, 2004, 06:34 PM
greeted by the cutest little man i have ever met. he was just adorable, he kissed me straight away and tucked his head under my arm, he was all wagging bum and tounge and nothing else

Now THAT is a REAL pit bull!! :D

Cactus Flower
August 14th, 2004, 10:26 PM
Meet "Kiva", my recently deceased pitX (was told she was dingo crossed, still not sure if I can believe that- I'm thinking yellow lab....)

Her personality was 100% pit. Loved people, any people .....all people.
She even loved my other dog, Chloe, but it took LOTS of work/training to socialize Kiva with Chloe when I first brought Chloe home. It all paid off, though, and Kiva loved her a lot. She was aggressive towards any other adult dog, but never towards people. Kids could crawl all over her, grab her ears, etc., and she'd just lay there with a big enduring grin on her face. She was so sweet and incredibly intelligent.
Didn't expect to get emotional writing this- will close for now

Lucky Rescue
August 14th, 2004, 10:28 PM
Kiva was very beautiful, and had the most fantastic ears!:)

Cactus Flower
August 14th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Thank you, LuckyRescue.

Sorry about the abrupt ending. I thought I had pretty much recovered from losing her until I was in the middle of writing that post. The human psyche can be veeeery unpredictable at times.

But I'm better now, so I'd like to finish!:
Kiva was very intelligent, which is also typical of the breed. She trained SO quickly. Most pit bulls are so eager to please, it's really just a matter of communication- as soon as they understand what you are asking of them, they're more than happy to do it! She was very much that way. People were always complimenting me at how well-trained she was, but I used to confess that this was mostly due to HER disposition and intelligence. It was no chore training her.

Whew! Ok I got through that with dry eyes this time!

Luba
August 14th, 2004, 11:59 PM
LR, that poor dog is loaded with scars!! From fights, so very sad sad sad.
How can that dog after being forced to fight not be dog aggressive with this other dog in the picture? I'm confused on that one!

The pic with the little girl is very sweet, looks like the dogs saying 'ya well twist my ears see if I care' lol

Cactus F, You must miss your baby so much. I love that picture. Kiva has a very intelligent look to her eyes.

Cactus Flower
August 15th, 2004, 12:51 AM
Thanks, Luba. Yes, I miss her very much.

I was also amazed by the picture of the formerly-fighting pit with the other dog. But I know it can be done, getting them to get along, as it worked with my Kiva!
Also I didn't see a spout on the other dog, so I'm assuming it is female. Maybe they fell in love! :D

Luba
August 15th, 2004, 12:57 AM
See how durable in spirit these wonderful dogs are! To retrust us, the hands that beat, torture, neglect and inflict harm to them.....we aren't worthy sometimes :(

glasslass
August 15th, 2004, 09:06 AM
Kiva was beautiful! Glad I'm not the only one who gets teary when I'm on this board! Those scars were horrible! When you think what that pup went through and no doubt people standing around enjoying it! I'm ashamed to be human sometimes, but so fortunate that I am. Shows you what good training can do - in dogs, and in humans!

Lucky Rescue
August 15th, 2004, 09:52 AM
so I'm assuming it is female. Maybe they fell in love!

Yes, and yes! :D

And also, he was a "failure" as a fighter, otherwise he would still be in the basement or on the chain of whatever hellhole he came from, and being fought until he either died of his injuries (these dogs are NOT taken to vets, no matter how seriously they are hurt) or started losing and was thrown out or killed.

EmmaJean
August 15th, 2004, 10:21 AM
I have a pit mix and I absolutely LOVE the breed. They are bred to be so sweet to humans and kids, though it's sometimes hard to socialize the dog-aggression out of them. There are plenty of exceptions and many PBs aren't dog-aggressive. But the number one rule for pit owners is "Never trust a Pit not to fight" (other dogs).

They just can't help it. Just like Labs can't help but retrieve or swim. And just like all breeds can "go after" humans, sometimes Pits will, too. And it's true that the breed attracts less than good people as owners. They can be weapons in the wrong hands.

They are bred to NEVER give up in a fight, so that's why a pit bred to fight and who is poorly socialized and encouarged to be aggressive will be more likely than a Lab to kill a human it goes after.

That's what scares people.

I disagree with BSL completely and I think that if Pits become extinct (!) there will just be other breeds that bad folk will own to do the same things. Bigger breeds who aren't so sweet to humans and kids like a PB is.

Cactus Flower
August 15th, 2004, 10:29 AM
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOAH! :eek: :eek:
I think that if Pits become extinct (!) there will just be other breeds that bad folk will own to do the same things. Bigger breeds who aren't so sweet to humans and kids like a PB is.
I never thought of that before!! EXCELLENT point! You should post this on the BSL thread.
My head is spinning, that comment blew my mind. Can you imagine?

Lucky Rescue
August 15th, 2004, 10:57 AM
I think that if Pits become extinct (!) there will just be other breeds that bad folk will own to do the same things

This is already happening with breeds like the Cane Corso,and the truly terrifying Fila Brasiliero, whose breed standard calls for them to have a "distrust or hatred of strangers" and will attack anyone who touches them, other than their own family.

This breed trait was fine when they were found only on remote ranches in South America, but not so great in crowded urban areas.

Cactus Flower
August 15th, 2004, 11:19 AM
Oh Lord. How terrible.

You've piqued my interest. I'm going to have to look up those breeds. Or do you have one of your infamous links to post? LOL. You're always quick with a great link....

Luba
August 15th, 2004, 11:49 AM
Fila Brasiliero, haven't heard of that breed but had to go find a picture.

http://www.dogpage.us/images/fila.jpg

Known for it's working ability, loyalty and courage, the Fila is a large, heavy-boned dog with pendulous hips. This breed is native to Brazil, but it's origins trace back to Portugese herding dogs, English Mastiffs, Bulldogs and Bloodhounds. Filas excel as guard dogs, cattle herding dogs, police dogs and hunting dogs, and are very loyal and eager to please their owners. They have a short coat and love to swim, and do well in extreme climates - both hot and cold. These dogs are highly territorial and possess a natural aversion to strangers, so a strong hand and early obedience training is essential.

Cactus Flower
August 15th, 2004, 11:56 AM
Thank you Luba!

What a beautiful dog. Can't believe they're fighting them.....especially with those jowls- they'd be shredded! No dog of ANY breed deserves this, of course

Lucky Rescue
August 15th, 2004, 01:29 PM
Filas are not used for fighting. They are guarding dogs and hunters of big game like jaguars. Their hatred of strangers is so great that this is the ONLY breed that is NOT touched even by a judge in the show ring. A breeder of the original type has this to say:

"At anywhere from 2 - 5 months of age, you will notice that your Fila does not like strangers. You do NOT teach him this - it is bred into him.

You cannot socialize a Fila to like people. You can obedience train them so that you are in control, but not to like people. A Fila WILL attack a stranger. Period. If they have the proper temperament, they WILL. "OJERIZA" translates to "hatred and loathing of strangers." YOU do not make them mean and vicious - they ARE - and there is no doubt about it. They are not a dog for a person who has an active social life.....the Fila is not a breed for the average pet owner."

Now, imagine these dogs in the hands of the scumbags who are being forced to get rid of their pit bulls?

So ferocious are these dogs that a well-known pit bull rescue has them to GUARD the pit bulls - since pit bulls love people so much that they were being stolen from this rescue.

Cactus Flower
August 15th, 2004, 01:35 PM
Oh, ok....I guess I got confused, thought they were fighting them because of this:

I think that if Pits become extinct (!) there will just be other breeds that bad folk will own to do the same things
....................................

This is already happening with breeds like the Cane Corso,and the truly terrifying Fila Brasiliero

At any rate, I suppose these dogs can NEVER be rehomed if they are aggressive towards all strangers? That would be very sad, if true.

Luba
August 15th, 2004, 01:38 PM
Now what use is a dog like that? Realistically speaking it's a ticking time bomb I wouldnt want that worry on my shoulders.

goldenblaze
August 15th, 2004, 02:05 PM
I also thankyou for the education, I do admit I am one that is afraid of pitbulls. A friend of mine bought a puppy and I was not sure about her bringing him the meet my boys, well I sure am glad we did all the kids had a ball playing and he is welcome at our house anytime. My friend took the time to train her pup and learned all she could before buying one.

As most of you I now believe that it is all in the training as with any bred. I took Blaze to the Dr on tuesday for his neuter and when I was leaving I told him mommy loves you and use your manners!

;)


Six months old and he does know his manners very well I must add, Dr Judy is very impressed with him and his training and I do that myself.

Again thanks and lets all enjoy our pets, no matter what bred they are.

Lucky Rescue
August 15th, 2004, 02:06 PM
Now what use is a dog like that?

They were very useful for the purpose for which they were originally bred - to guard remote plantations in Brazil and drive off poachers and predators. They were also used for the unsavory job of catching runaway slaves.:(

They do NOT belong in any urban or suburban areas, or any place where there is a human population of strangers around. Just thinking of the liability makes me shudder.

Cactus Flower, these dogs will take the place of the pit bulls who have been perverted into being human aggressive by pathetic scumbags, druggies, dogfighters and wannabes. You know - the type who needs a "mean dog" to make him feel like a man.

With Filas, they won't have to abuse, chain, or use any methods at all to make them mean. :mad:

Luba
August 15th, 2004, 02:12 PM
mommy loves you and use your manners!
Thats too much hahah! love it!

LR I've never seen this breed in my area. I assume it's still quite rare but growing in popularity. The dif with this breed seems to be how could you rehabilitate it, if the human aggression of such strength is more genetic?

Which breed does it get that aggression from? Do you know? WHY the bloodhound for this purpose?

Lucky Rescue
August 15th, 2004, 02:24 PM
Yeah, they are still a rare breed, but I heard from someone that there was a Fila puppy in a PETSTORE!! :eek:

The aggression is genetic. They can no more be "rehabilitated" from this aggression than a greyhound could be rehabilitated from wanting to chase rabbits.

Apparently, some breeders are trying for more "tame" dogs, but it's all relative, and that would not mean they would be safe around strangers.

These dogs are actually mastiffs (molossers), and I guess the human aggression was bred the way any other trait is bred into a dog breed. The bloodhound part made it useful for tracking slaves or big game down.

Luba
August 15th, 2004, 02:33 PM
SMH

A fila in a petstore? Great news! OR a 'pretend' fila!

People really haven't a clue what they do with these designer breeds and how it affects the population. So the bloodhound was for tracking. You think that would have been enough. But I guess they wanted dogs to kill on site?
Thats very scarey stuff! Esp if you were a wilderness adventure type coming across a dog like that OMG climb a tree and stay there!

Lucky Rescue
August 15th, 2004, 05:54 PM
From what I understand from people I have talked to, Filas will attack if a stranger lays their hands on them, or if THEY judge there is danger to their territory or family, since they were bred to work independantly on very large properties.

Needless to say, in an urban area, this could have tragic results - neighbours popping in, kids and their friends running in and out and a door or gate left open.. :eek:

The "designer breed" thing...this is opening the door to mayhem, as yuppies get the latest "in" breed - Akbash dog, Caucasian Ovcharka, Fila or whatever.:(