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help please - GSD puppy - 13 weeks

mendes
April 22nd, 2009, 07:51 AM
hi to all, my first gsd puppy, but i was bought up with dogs, 3 white gsd and a labradour and sheep dog

so on sunday went to see simba who is a long haired puppy male black and tan.

there were 3 other pupps there all rowdy and jumping all over the place!!

but simba would jus sit on his own, a couple of times he got up after i kinda forced him to... he showed character so i end buying him..

on the contract its says i can get a vet check him and have 7 days to return him full refund.

so its been 3 days now all he does is sit down once or twice a day he'll get up and play..


the vet checked said he was fine, jus needs drops in his eyes...

hes not eating much just alittle, took him to obedience class went fairly well would only interact with a puppy 1on1 not in a group..

but what is bothering me he is constaly sitting, on walks indoors.....im scared they maybe something wrong with his back legs... or maybe this is normal behavior.. many thanks..

i dont want to take him back coz im attached to him:sad:

Masha
April 22nd, 2009, 09:20 AM
Can you do an x-ray so that your vet can look at his hips? (I am not sure if they can do that at such a young age.... vet would be able to advise)

Also, i would get a second opinion from another vet, see what they say....

It does sound like odd puppy behaviour, but it may not be a physical thing, maybe a personality or character issue... he may be shy or timid, there are many possibilities..... I am sure some of the more experienced members here will have more info.

Where did you get the puppy from?

mendes
April 22nd, 2009, 10:02 AM
hey thanks masha, was thinking of getting a 2nd opinion...

it was off an add from pets from you, up in cabridgeshire, i got a contract, certificate of pedigree, 4weeks insurance... hes adorable, would hate to take him back... hoping hes jus shy and getting used me and his surroundings.

Masha
April 22nd, 2009, 10:05 AM
IMG he is too cute.... :lovestruck:

I really hope its nothing serious... maybe he is just a chilled out kind of dog :)

mendes
April 22nd, 2009, 10:14 AM
yeah thats what im really hoping :thumbs up but like u say maybe somone else whos experinced the same thing will be able to shed some light.:)

hazelrunpack
April 22nd, 2009, 10:24 AM
Oh, he is a little doll!! :flirt:

He might just be mellow, but at 13 weeks, even a mellow fellow should be playing more. Definitely get that second opinion. Did the first vet run any bloodwork? Has he been tested for parasites? And if there's any question at all about the integrity of his joints, don't be afraid to talk to the vet about options.

Best wishes for Simba, mendes! :goodvibes:

Did I mention I love his ears!?!? :lovestruck: :D

LavenderRott
April 22nd, 2009, 10:37 AM
Did you meet the breeder at a neutral location or at his/her home? Did you get to meet the parents?

IMHO - you picked the wrong puppy. The puppy who is shy, doesn't want to interact with others or meet new people is generally either ill or has some temperment issues.

This isn't to say that you and this pup won't be fine together. But it may require either a TON of work or a TON of money.

I would get x-rays of those hips done immediately. If, at 13 weeks, hip pain is the reason he is so mellow and doesn't want to play then you are probably going to have a dog that can't walk without major surgery well before he is a year old.

Bailey_
April 22nd, 2009, 10:40 AM
Mendes,

Your GSD is very adorable, but I'm quite concerned that there is something very wrong with him.

Your puppy is reminding me of something we went through a few years ago.

My husband and I purchased an apricot toy poodle female from someone we were quite sure was a reputable, liscenced breeder. Hindsight is 20-20, and I should have done more research about this woman - contacted more references.
In any case, we went to her home to look at the available females, (two left). (She kept us at the front entrance, we did not see the parents, or the rest of her house - all warning signs which to this day I beat myself up for.) One was extremley happy and friendly, and the second seemed really tired. The breeder told us that the pups had just had a bath, so that was probably why the one puppy seemed tired.
We did however decide on the 'tired puppy' as she appealed to my husband the most. She reminded us all of a teddy bear - very cute indeed!

A few weeks passed until she was ready to come home, and the breeder drove out to our city to drop her off.
It was a Saturday - and instantly, we knew that something was wrong. She seemed very uninterested in playing, would only really get 'up' with encouragement and lots of praise.
Our gut instinct told us that something was not quite right with this puppy, and we started to wonder if we had in fact adopted from a puppy mill. Our suspicions at first was that our new puppy, Suki, did not know how to walk properly if she had in fact been kept in a kennel for most of her life.
Not wanting to jump to any conclusions, we took her to the vet the following day. (Sunday).
The vet told us that he thought Suki looked very healthy, assumed that she was probably constipated and told us to put a little bit of metamucil on some wet food.
We were quite relieved, took her home, and started to follow his instructions.

But Suki did not seem to get better.

Over the next day and a half we watched her progress with heavy hearts. I contacted the breeder, trying to get to the bottom of what was going on. Hadn't she noticed anything, etc?
Essentially, we took her to a wonderful vet clinic for another opinion - where they immediatley informed us that our little Suki's neck vertebrae was not fused with the rest of her spine. Her head, was literally not attached to her body.

I'm not relaying this story to scare you, and I honestly hope this situation is NOTHING like what you may be going through with your beautiful puppy. But I want to stress the importance of getting a second opinion; and not only that - trust your instinct. Often times if we think something is wrong, it is.

Good luck with your puppy, and I really hope everything works out for the best.

Blackdog22
April 22nd, 2009, 10:50 AM
As you know Mendes, GSD are ridddled with health issues.
I own 2 of them and found it's better to assume the worst and get them thoroughly tested then to 'leave it be', perse.

I agree with hazel, even a very chilled puppy should be somewhat rambunctious at that age, especially gsd pups!

My GSD went through a phase when they were very young. They would stare. It was the craziest thing. All of a sudden I would feel eyes burning into me, only to find my cute little puppy sitting in the middle of the room, eyes glued to mine. Like one of those creepy little girls in the horror movies. I would ask them to come, nope rather stare. I would throw a toy, they wouldn't even flinch. Offer a cookie.....nah, they would rather stare.
Which brings me to my question, does he focus on things when he is sitting or does he just mindlessly sit, not really paying attention to anything?

It could be that he is just developing that trademark GSD focus and alertness. They are very observant dogs, even as young pups.

Maybe he thinks your boring. I know that sounds rude, but many GSD are not amused with typical human-to-puppy interaction. Have you tried to find what motivates him? (balls, tug, treats?) Start doing OB with him. GSD catch onto things very fast. By 13 weeks I had my boy doing sit stays and repetitions of sit and down, he wasn't very reliable of course, but it was such fun and he really loved it.

All of that being said, if your pup is lethargic and your contract is only for 7 days, get him thoroughly checked by a different vet. Bloodwork, fecal, urine and xrays.
It's far better to be safe then sorry.

You also mentioned that he would just sit by himself when with his littermates. This can be a sign of many different tempermant traits in the GSD, including lack of confidence, independance and others. You may want to do some research on choosing 'the lone gsd pup' .

What are his bloodlines, if you don't mind me asking.....

mendes
April 22nd, 2009, 10:58 AM
yeah thanks all for your reply's. when i took him to puppy class he did jump and play fight with the other puppys, even today when i went to the park he was play fight with a staff bull teri, its jus when were in doors always floping and sitting... but like you say i may get the second opinion coz i have till sunday to take him back....

Bailey_
April 22nd, 2009, 11:04 AM
GREAT NEWS, Mendes! :D Yeah, I agree, getting a second opinion is always a good idea. Glad to hear he was having fun!

mendes
April 22nd, 2009, 11:15 AM
the line he comes from is kyshall luken, if im in the room and hes sitting he'll kreep his eyes open and look where i am, also when i tell him to get out the car he doesnt so i jus leave him and run off and hide, he'll turn his head to look for me, then i went back to try and call him nothing, so left him again and the cheeky bugger got out by himself, after all its the 4th day ive had him..

also the other night i took him out side and all of sudden he stands still lookin attentive and 15seconds later across the road i see a guy arriving home opening the door to his house, so hes intune with his senses...

Blackdog22
April 22nd, 2009, 11:37 AM
He's a smart little fellow then!

I'm not familiar with that name or line and google yielded no results for me.
Correct me if I'm wrong please, but he looks like he is german highline to me, or perhaps american.

So now that you have a GSD, do you plan on doing any doggy sports with him? You could have a champ on your hands, gsd are so very capable at whatever you train them for. I highly suggest tracking, it's really fun, you can start teaching it right away and it's very rewarding for you and the dog.

Good luck with your pup.

mendes
April 22nd, 2009, 11:44 AM
hey if you google kyshall it comes up on google.. also not given much thought about what im gonna do with him but i intend to go to a dog show and see what its all about, also not fimiliar with differnt types of gsd... also what is trackin and would i need to go lessons or is it something i can teach him? thanks.

Blackdog22
April 22nd, 2009, 12:18 PM
As far as conformation goes, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Longhairs are a fault within the breed and they go against the standard. The SV is changing there standard in 2010 to allow longhairs to compete, so if you are able to register you GSD with the SV, in the future you may be able to show. That being said, SV sanctioned shows are not too common in Canada, and the CKC may never allow longcoats.

Trackng is very easy to teach and great fun for you and your dog. I will find you some good links and articles on how to start foundation training your little guy, so check back on this thread in the next few days. You do not need to go to formal traning classes for some time when teaching to track. Many people do what they can at home then start classes at about a year of age. You can go to classes at any point though. It's simple and they catch on right away, I'm sure you'll love it. It's super cool when they are older and understand the "seek" command. Very neat to watch.

As far as types go...It really doesn't matter what kind you have unless you are wanting to do some type of doggy sport. Some lines are for more experienced folk and can take much longer to train and require more skill. These dogs are generally exclusive to the various working line GSD. If you want to research type(it's really neat to see all how different they all are) try googling; American, German Showline(highline), Czech, DDR and West German working. That should get you started. Just remember, don't believe everything you hear. The GSD community is loaded with diehards, whom believe there type is better then all the rest and all other types are crap. I think they are easy to spot, but just remember these are peoples opinions, not concrete facts.

mendes
April 22nd, 2009, 12:31 PM
hey blackdog thanks will check back in a few days for those links, i live in the uk so not sure about the shows here but even jus to watch would be cool, also how would i find what type of gsd simba is?

Blackdog22
April 22nd, 2009, 12:48 PM
If you live in the UK you will need to go to the KC website and look at the standard. There will be a section for coat and 'faults". You will be able to tell from that whether he is eiligable to be shown or not .If you are committed to showing, and your dog is a good representitive of the breed, you can still wait until 2010 and show under the SV. Look into the SV registry, it's one of the most important things in GSD history. Created for the GSD by the breed founder himself.

I did a search on your breeder and found an add saying the dogs were of german breeding and all showlines. This would mean that particular litter would be likely be classified as a german showline (everything depends on the pedigree though, where the dog was born has no bearing on type). The only way anyone would be able to tell you the type of GSD you have would be if you posted the dogs pedigree.

mendes
April 24th, 2009, 04:05 AM
hey guys i got a 2nd opinion!!! the 1st thing the vet made me do was walk the dog outside, she said he was walking fine, he never puts the whole back paw flat on the ground he only uses his pads of the back poor which what hes supossed todo. she then got him on a table to check his range of movement of his back legs she said they were fine.

she checked his tempreture and said it was fine, heart was normal and she said that if he had a heart problem theres no way he would be as big as he is.
also his testes have fallen into the sac!!
all good news!!! all she said he really needs todo is eat coz she feel his ribs rather easy...


since then ive managed to find the food the breeder was feeding him which was royal canin maxi baby dog and know hes eating fine!!

he acts like a different dog, always chewing his bone or playing with the ball,
also when were in the park most of the time he'll walk fast and sometimes run with his nose to the ground sniffing which i find funny...

i find hes testing me when were walkin with the lead, hes sometimes lays down so i jus leave him walk away and he follows me.. but when im next to a busy road im scared to do this and i dont want to drag him any suggestions?

so blackdog sorry could you explain again how i find what type of german shep he is?

last thing also should i castrate him? i saw wild 1yr old male gsd and he seemed like a hand full!!

thanks again to everyone.. Simba is due 5 more puppy classes then im gonna take hin on the next level course of classes.

I think me and Simba are going todo just fine!!!:thumbs up

Sylvie
April 24th, 2009, 07:18 AM
I have been following your thread and I am so glad everything is going well. :thumbs up

OMG, he is a beauty:lovestruck:. Always wanted a long coat, even knowing it is considered a flaw in the GSD show world.

Please keep us updated on his progress.

Blackdog22
April 24th, 2009, 11:54 AM
Glad to hear everything is going well with your new baby!

The only way you can tell the type of gsd you have is by looking at the pedigree.
I highly suggest that you register the dog on the pedigree database. It will be a great refference for you when researching your dogs pedigree. Plus, if your pups ancestors are registered and have photos, you will be able to see them. It's really neat.
If you decide to go this route and need any help, I would be more then happy to assist.


I found a few links for you to look at involving various aspects of the GSD:

This is a very interesting chart, it really shows how the GSD has transformed through the years
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/siegershow_winners.html


Manfred Heyne (very cool story)
http://www.german-shepherdherding.com/manfred-english/index.html

Very general information on the different 'types' within the breed...including dogs commonly mistaken as a 'german shepherd'.
http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html


Basic information, lots of topics.
http://www.cluebus.com/holly/gsdfaq.html#New%20GSD


A great tracking resource
http://www.schutzhundtracking.com

Please remember when reading these links to verify everything for yourself. Do not believe everything that is written. Many people in this breed are very ignorant towards other types. If something sounds fishy to you, just investigate further.


Castration has many many postive points to it, including elimination of many health problems specific to intact dogs. The only negative(if you can even call it that) is that your dog will no longer be eligable to be shown in conformation. This does not mean he can't be titled in other events. If you are not really wanting to show your dog, I highly suggest castrating him and competing in other doggy sports.

mendes
April 24th, 2009, 12:21 PM
hey balckdog thanks for all those links, i went to http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/...w_winners.html
and typed in the the 1st two name on the certificate of pedigree which were natz dell alto pino and tramella ghita and got to see what all the dogs look like really cool, so i guess there the german type gsd?

Blackdog22
April 24th, 2009, 04:31 PM
I just looked at the pedigree of your dog. If everything is correct on the information then your dog is without a doubt, german showline. He is also line bred on VA1 Ursus von Batu as well as 2 other dogs in 5 generations. I highly suggest you research Ursus as he is one of the most popular german showline dogs and many consider him legend. Many things, good and bad are said to come from Ursus. But that is for you to find out......

Be sure to post more pictures of your pup as he ages, I'm very excited for you both!

hunnybunny
April 26th, 2009, 07:52 AM
I am glad all is well with your pup, when i first read your post i was concerned too as my dog was the same when i got him as a puppy, very quiet for a pup and we have gone on to have lots of health issues, so i.m pleased your boy is doing okay:thumbs up
Simba is beautiful:lovestruck: hope to see more pics as he grows up:dog: