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oh Mr. President

NoahGrey
April 14th, 2009, 12:30 PM
So, I think by now everyone knows that the president has chosen to go through a breeder, rather then adopt a dog from a shelter or breed rescue. Yes, Mr. President contribute to the pet overpopulation, instead of giving a homeless animal a home. I thought at least he was going to adopt an animal from a shelter, even if it is was only for a PR issue, but no he didn't even do that.

Lost a little respect for him because of it.

ACO22

ancientgirl
April 14th, 2009, 12:49 PM
I share in your disappointment, but I am hopefully he will think about getting another dog which will be from a shelter.

kiara
April 14th, 2009, 01:05 PM
ACO22 I totally agree and I am very disappointed too.

Bina
April 14th, 2009, 01:08 PM
I heard that the dog was a gift. He had already decided on a Portie pup.

BenMax
April 14th, 2009, 01:14 PM
Sometimes we cannot even persuade a family friend or family member to adopt an animal in need.

Chin up everyone. Even though we are all disappointed, this will blow over as all other things in life do.

Hope this 'gift' is a good fit.

Melinda
April 14th, 2009, 01:45 PM
when they deem it time to spay their pup as responsible pet owners do, then hopefully it will teach others to follow their example, I think so far they have done wonders (from a canadian stand point) their organic garden, having kids help with it, I think you'll see that with them owning a pup and being in the public eye will help change the attitude of fly by night pet owners. But I was dissapointed they didn't go to a shelter.

clm
April 14th, 2009, 02:33 PM
I'm happy his family has gotten a dog, I'm happy he didn't get a designer breed, and it's a decision that's been a long time in the making for them. If they chose to get a dog from a breeder then that's a decision they have every right to make.
Until laws are changed regarding spaying, neutering, byb's and puppy mills, there are always going to be dogs and cats in shelters. There is NOTHING wrong with supporting responsible breeders.

That's my feeling on the matter.

Cindy

LavenderRott
April 14th, 2009, 02:36 PM
when they deem it time to spay their pup as responsible pet owners do, then hopefully it will teach others to follow their example, I think so far they have done wonders (from a canadian stand point) their organic garden, having kids help with it, I think you'll see that with them owning a pup and being in the public eye will help change the attitude of fly by night pet owners. But I was dissapointed they didn't go to a shelter.

Bo is reportedly already neutered.

NoahGrey
April 14th, 2009, 02:48 PM
If they chose to get a dog from a breeder then that's a decision they have every right to make.
Until laws are changed regarding spaying, neutering, byb's and puppy mills, there are always going to be dogs and cats in shelters. There is NOTHING wrong with supporting responsible breeders.


Irresponsible or responsible breeders, they have one goal and that is too make a profit. At least spca's spay and neuter their adoption animals before going home. In hopes that it will curb the pet overpopulation and have less unwanted animals. Most responsible breeders have it in their contact yes,if they owner can no longer take care of the dog, they ask that you contact them and give the dog back. However, also have in the contract not to spay or neuter. Why, one of the reasons, I am assuming is that just in case that dog is given back, the breeders still have an opportunity to breed that dog.

And also, you know how many pure-breds actually end up at shelters throughout the world. Many, many many.

Another thing. Responsible breeders are almost nil. Even the ones that you think are responsible are not. Trust me, even ones that are part of offical world wide reputable clubs, etc. It's scary...you never know what is out there.


ACO22

Melinda
April 14th, 2009, 03:09 PM
oh thanks lavender rott, I hadn't seen that...well good!! *L*

Sylvie
April 14th, 2009, 03:13 PM
I hear you ACO. What can we do about it? My last Shep was from a small responsible breeder. She did not breed all the time. She loves the breed and stays in touch with all the dogs from her litters. She has not had any litters in 2008 and will have one in 2009. Her contract does hold a neutering, spaying clause and she will give you $100 back when you show proof of same. :thumbs up What I love about her is that she does not take your money and run. She is in our lives even though we do not have any of her pups anymore. She also donated to the GSRT. Very rare for a breeder to give to a Rescue. Especially German Shepherd breeders.

Even so, having been in Rescue for approx 6 years now, any pets tht I have will come from a Rescue.

What about Animal Control, when they get rid of animals, they do not have them fixed? :eek:

Blackdog22
April 14th, 2009, 03:18 PM
ACO22, I sincerely disagree with this statement:

Irresponsible or responsible breeders, they have one goal and that is too make a profit

It's simply not true. Infact I would not even begin to put someone who breeds for profit in the same class as a reputable breeder. Good breeders are out there, they are just not easy to find. Stating that all breeders have the common goal of money is an outright lie and a horrible stereotype....It certainly does no service for the current state of dogs.

BenMax
April 14th, 2009, 03:24 PM
Irresponsible or responsible breeders, they have one goal and that is too make a profit. At least spca's spay and neuter their adoption animals before going home. In hopes that it will curb the pet overpopulation and have less unwanted animals. Most responsible breeders have it in their contact yes,if they owner can no longer take care of the dog, they ask that you contact them and give the dog back. However, also have in the contract not to spay or neuter. Why, one of the reasons, I am assuming is that just in case that dog is given back, the breeders still have an opportunity to breed that dog.

And also, you know how many pure-breds actually end up at shelters throughout the world. Many, many many.

Another thing. Responsible breeders are almost nil. Even the ones that you think are responsible are not. Trust me, even ones that are part of offical world wide reputable clubs, etc. It's scary...you never know what is out there.


ACO22

I hear you and you are correct on many counts. I also know that there are still responsible breeders out there and again they are put into one lump pile just as rescues are or shelters for that matter. One can ruin it for everyone, but we must not loose sight that even though you nor I would go to a breeder, we cannot say that all breeders are bad either.

Personally - I would always go to a shelter or rescue for my companions...always did and always will.

My concern goes beyond this dog (I seriously wished he got a mix breed) - is this going to boost the popularity of this breed and thus entice someone to start milling these dogs???? I venture not to even imagine.

cell
April 14th, 2009, 03:48 PM
I was disappointed that they didn't pick somthing out from a city shelter but essentially they wanted a breed that is not common and there aren't really any in shelters (on petfinder at least). Whats done is done, no point in fretting about it. I just hope it doesn't ruin the breed, thats the only thing I'm worried about, should have got a hienz57 so no one knew what was in it. But with the concerns of the daughters allergies picking somthing not known to be allergy friendly could have gotten dicey because the President isn't allowed to give his dog up for adoption.

luckypenny
April 14th, 2009, 05:27 PM
Bo was given up by his first family and returned to the breeder. Makes me feel the breeder is at least responsible enough to ensure one of his/her pups didn't end up at a shelter/rescue :shrug:.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iuK4RrdQYakZgAF3_iK0WphHFmPwD97HSRD01

chico2
April 14th, 2009, 05:35 PM
What I heard on the news,the pup was given as a gift from senator Kennedy,who owns several Portugese Waterdogs.
I can't see him being a breeder,but who knows:confused:

NoahGrey
April 14th, 2009, 05:56 PM
What about Animal Control, when they get rid of animals, they do not have them fixed? :eek:

I work for a Humane Society and yes all of our animals are fixed before they go home.


I work for one of the best Humane Societies in the province. And I am not just saying that because I work there. Our shelter goes beyond for every animal that comes through our doors. Whether domestic, wildlife, live stock, exotic. We work with Toronto Wildlife center, the Owl Foundation, a rehab center in Welland, as well as brees rescue groups. Even ferals are given a chance and aggressive animals are worked with. We go great lengths to hopefully save and give them a second chance. I knew that this was the HS that I wanted to work at. Took me 5 years to get into here.

And we don't euth for cage space.

ACO22



ACO22

BusterBoo
April 14th, 2009, 06:36 PM
From what I got....Bo is the brother to one of the Kennedy dogs. He was owned by one family who couldn't handle him, given back to the breeder and Kennedy stepped in and thought he would be a good fit for the White House. Also, according to the news....Obama has given a "very good" donation to his local SPCA. Also....our own MP Baird has given a donation to a HS in Toronto area????? So, it's not ALL bad....

Bo is neutered, Bo has a loving family..... :lovestruck: and he is one GORGEOUS puppy!!!!

coppperbelle
April 14th, 2009, 07:09 PM
One of his kids is allergic so they wanted a Portugese Water Dog. While I am sure PWD are sometimes dumped at the shelter I would imagine it doesn't happen all that often and when they are dumped there is probably no history on the dog so there is always the possibility of it being mixed. The only way to guarantee a purebred PWD is to get it from a breeder. It is my understanding that this dog was returned by its original adopter and then purchased by Ted Kennedy as a gift for the Obama children.
I am very happy for those children. They are going to need a companion they can talk to when thing get difficult.

Frenchy
April 14th, 2009, 08:27 PM
Kennedy stepped in and thought he would be a good fit for the White House. Also, according to the news....Obama has given a "very good" donation to his local SPCA.

Ditto on both counts BusterBoo. And Coppperbelle is right , this breed must be hard to find in shelters and rescues.

At least he considered it and made a donation.

Jim Hall
April 14th, 2009, 09:07 PM
yeah yeah
rich relations may give a crust of bread or such
you can help yourself, but dont take to much
mama may have
and papa may have
but god bless the child that's got his own
that's got his own bread

billie holiday

MommaKat
April 14th, 2009, 09:15 PM
I agree with Frenchy and others, I hope their happy with the new addition.

clm
April 15th, 2009, 07:13 AM
Irresponsible or responsible breeders, they have one goal and that is too make a profit. Most responsible breeders have it in their contact yes,if they owner can no longer take care of the dog, they ask that you contact them and give the dog back. However, also have in the contract not to spay or neuter. Why, one of the reasons, I am assuming is that just in case that dog is given back, the breeders still have an opportunity to breed that dog.


Another thing. Responsible breeders are almost nil. Even the ones that you think are responsible are not. Trust me, even ones that are part of offical world wide reputable clubs, etc. It's scary...you never know what is out there.


ACO22

I can understand why in your line of work you feel the way you do, but you have obviously some grave misconceptions about a lot of the responsible breeders out there and you've never met the 3 I've got my dogs from over the years. These people don't make money at breeding, they live like paupers, slaves to their dogs and loving it.
They all rescue kees and take back dogs they have sold regardless of whether they have been spayed or neutered. Most are sold as pet quality puppies initially, so why on earth would they not expect them to be spayed or neutered if returned? There are an awful lot of great breeders out there, so to say that most are bad or irresponsible is in itself irresponsible. You see the millers and the byb's and the results of their activities, not the people who truly love their breeds and live for them.
You can't force people to get their pets from shelters, but if they make educated choices to begin with, at least their pets aren't going to end up in one either.
I applaud the first families choice and I hope they get to enjoy their little bundle of fur for many years to come.
I saw him on TV last night, he really is an adorable bundle of curls. :laughing:

Cindy

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 09:39 AM
CLM - she feels the way she does because she is exposed to alot of garbage. Seeing the worst becomes routine. ACO22 will find balance when she is ready - but for now she deals with more than you can imagine I gather.

Give her some slack as she is entitled to her opinion as well.:)

Jim Hall
April 15th, 2009, 09:44 AM
well sorry they could have found a pound dog if the looked hard enough i am sure


i do hope they enjoy bo and i am sure they will love him

Sylvie
April 15th, 2009, 10:13 AM
ACO22

I am so happy to hear about your Humane Society. I wish they were all like yours.

There are so many good things that go on,:eek: but we only here about the bad things.:frustrated: Thank goodness there are wonderful people like yourself working for the animals.

Keep up the good work :thumbs up

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 10:21 AM
ACO22

I am so happy to hear about your Humane Society. I wish they were all like yours.

There are so many good things that go on,:eek: but we only here about the bad things.:frustrated: Thank goodness there are wonderful people like yourself working for the animals.

Keep up the good work :thumbs up

I second this sentiment.:thumbs up:)

clm
April 15th, 2009, 10:51 AM
CLM - she feels the way she does because she is exposed to alot of garbage. Seeing the worst becomes routine. ACO22 will find balance when she is ready - but for now she deals with more than you can imagine I gather.

Give her some slack as she is entitled to her opinion as well.:)

If she quotes me then my opinions will be heard too. ;)

Cindy

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 11:13 AM
If she quotes me then my opinions will be heard too. ;)

Cindy

Indeed but she was polite and non confrontational. Now I rather just stick to this topic but since you posted, I will respond.;)

Back on topic with my thoughts....hopefully this breed will not be bastersized by BYB's, millers and such. I keep thinking about the 101 dalmations, Hooch, and of course the American Bulldog in one of those shows.

I think Jim Hall summed it up well...had they searched long enough they would have gotten a little one that NEEDED the help.

clm
April 15th, 2009, 11:30 AM
Indeed but she was polite and non confrontational. Now I rather just stick to this topic but since you posted, I will respond.;)

Back on topic with my thoughts....hopefully this breed will not be bastersized by BYB's, millers and such. I keep thinking about the 101 dalmations, Hooch, and of course the American Bulldog in one of those shows.

I think Jim Hall summed it up well...had they searched long enough they would have gotten a little one that NEEDED the help.

I was no more confrontational than she, difference to you being that I am not of the same opinon on the subject as you. ;)

I understand unfortunately that there have been a lot more inquiries about the breed since they have got this pup. It is bound to inspire some byb's into action and maybe even a few new designer breed spin offs. That's one thing I like about the breed I have, relatively obscure. Even during the dog shows on TV you might just get a brief glimpse of one. :laughing:

Cindy

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 11:34 AM
[QUOTE=BenMax;768863] I also know that there are still responsible breeders out there and again they are put into one lump pile just as rescues are or shelters for that matter. One can ruin it for everyone, but we must not loose sight that even though you nor I would go to a breeder, we cannot say that all breeders are bad either.
QUOTE]

CLM - I guess you missed a portion of my qoute above.:)

Infact I do share a 'portion' of your opinion.

aslan
April 15th, 2009, 11:37 AM
Indeed but she was polite and non confrontational. Now I rather just stick to this topic but since you posted, I will respond.;)

Back on topic with my thoughts....hopefully this breed will not be bastersized by BYB's, millers and such. I keep thinking about the 101 dalmations, Hooch, and of course the American Bulldog in one of those shows.

I think Jim Hall summed it up well...had they searched long enough they would have gotten a little one that NEEDED the help.

Having sat back and watched this thread, I personally not only didn`t find CLM confrontational, but i also tend to agree with a majority of what was said. Due to allergy issues the families breed choices are limited. We did a search lastnight on the breed they chose and hmmm not one purebred to be found. The puppy was a return so technically he is a rescue.

ACO22 it is very sad that your image of breeders has become sooo jaded. I find sometimes the way you force your thoughts akin to the thinking that created the BSL laws in Ontario. I invite you to come to my neck of the woods anytime to meet a totally ethical breeder. The woman i got my Qman from is the best of the best. A truly ethical breeder does it for the love of the breed, they either break even or lose money on each litter. In a perfect world it is the byb`s and puppymills that need to disappear and the ethical breeders be preserved.

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 11:40 AM
Having sat back and watched this thread, I personally not only didn`t find CLM confrontational, but i also tend to agree with a majority of what was said. Due to allergy issues the families breed choices are limited. We did a search lastnight on the breed they chose and hmmm not one purebred to be found. The puppy was a return so technically he is a rescue.

ACO22 it is very sad that your image of breeders has become sooo jaded. I find sometimes the way you force your thoughts akin to the thinking that created the BSL laws in Ontario. I invite you to come to my neck of the woods anytime to meet a totally ethical breeder. The woman i got my Qman from is the best of the best. A truly ethical breeder does it for the love of the breed, they either break even or lose money on each litter. In a perfect world it is the byb`s and puppymills that need to disappear and the ethical breeders be preserved.

That is very interesting Aslan that one would lump ACO22 opinion about breeders to that of the creation of the BSL laws in Ontario. Now that is a revelation!

aslan
April 15th, 2009, 11:42 AM
My point is that not everything is soooo cut and dry. There are grey areas in the world not just black and white. As in the BSL just because some bullies are to put it politely,, screwed... doesn`t meant they all are. Just like because there are byb`s and puppymills doesn`t mean all breeders are bad.

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 11:50 AM
My point is that not everything is soooo cut and dry. There are grey areas in the world not just black and white. As in the BSL just because some bullies are to put it politely,, screwed... doesn`t meant they all are. Just like because there are byb`s and puppymills doesn`t mean all breeders are bad.

The point of this thread was 'I think' the disappointment some may have had in regards to his decision. 'I think' that he did previously state that he was going to go to a shelter or rescue however was given a 'gift'. That 'gift' (and not to mention a word that everyone I hope wishes to avoid) is not a rescued pup. This little pup was a return. There is a difference between a return and a rescue.

In the end, the family will no doubt give this very lucky pup a good home...afterall eveyone is watching.

aslan
April 15th, 2009, 12:00 PM
The point of this thread was 'I think' the disappointment some may have had in regards to his decision. .

Yep, I 'think' so too but it seemed to switch topics by the op herself to bashing all breeders.

In the end, the family will no doubt give this very lucky pup a good home...afterall eveyone is watching.

Or maybe simply because they love this pup and are a loving home, regardless who's watching.

clm
April 15th, 2009, 12:16 PM
Or maybe simply because they love this pup and are a loving home, regardless who's watching.

I agree. :thumbs up

I can't think of another white house pet that has caught so much attention.

Cindy

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 12:16 PM
Yep, I 'think' so too but it seemed to switch topics by the op herself to bashing all breeders.



Or maybe simply because they love this pup and are a loving home, regardless who's watching.

Not to mention insinuating that ones opinion is related to the BSL. Just a thought, I think off topic.

Love4himies
April 15th, 2009, 12:17 PM
I can understand ACO22's views of breeders.

IMHO, anybody who has a love for dogs doesn't want any dogs to be euthanized, gassed or to sit in cages. That means, that until there are homes for all dogs and cats, nobody should be breeding. I could not in any way, shape or form allow my cat to breed no matter how "good" of a breed standard she/he was with all the cats that are homeless. I just don't have the morals to do so.

I hope this pup has a happy and loving life with the Obamas, every family should have a pet to love.

aslan
April 15th, 2009, 12:20 PM
Not to mention insinuating that ones opinion is related to the BSL. Just a thought, I think off topic.

If you go back and read what i said, I at no point said it was related to the BSL. I said,,"in my opion" the black and white thinking reminds me of the BSL thinking. Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion. What i disagree with is the " everyone is entitled to MY opinion thinking"

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 12:22 PM
If you go back and read what i said, I at no point said it was related to the BSL. I said,,"in my opion" the black and white thinking reminds me of the BSL thinking. Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion. What i disagree with is the " everyone is entitled to MY opinion thinking"

:thumbs up so well said Aslan. Not to mention the bullying of always the same person regardless of like opinions or not. But hey - that is off topic too now isn't it.

coppperbelle
April 15th, 2009, 12:25 PM
Honestly what does it matter if he bought this dog from an ethical breeder, received it as a gift or rescued it from a shelter. The Obama family researched the breed and made a choice based on their particular family situation.

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 12:26 PM
Honestly what does it matter if he bought this dog from an ethical breeder, received it as a gift or rescued it from a shelter. The Obama family researched the breed and made a choice based on their particular family situation.

In the end coppperbelle it doesn't matter at all. It's done.

clm
April 15th, 2009, 12:31 PM
Black and white thinking is truly a bad thing. Gotta have all those shades of grey in between.

Mind you I love my opinions. :laughing:

I can so understand how people in rescue can wonder at how people can breed cats and dogs when there are so many shelters and how people can want to get a dog or cat from a breeder.
I got my dogs from breeders. You can like it or not, but it was my choice to make and I'll defend that right and anyone elses right to do the same.
All 3 of my cats however are rescues and look after a number of strays. Same deal, my choice and I'll defend that right as strongly as the first.

Cindy

Brat
April 15th, 2009, 12:37 PM
I feel exactly the same way. And I'm sure there are very nice breeders out there but I feel like no one should be breeding until this overpopulation problem is taken care of.

I can understand ACO22's views of breeders.

IMHO, anybody who has a love for dogs doesn't want any dogs to be euthanized, gassed or to sit in cages. That means, that until there are homes for all dogs and cats, nobody should be breeding.

aslan
April 15th, 2009, 12:45 PM
The way i see it is, if all dogs are spay or neutered, and No one is breeding. Yes that would help with the overpopulation. But would that not cause the canine species to become extinct, since there would be no purebred or otherwise to breed?

If all ethical breeders(breeding to preserve the line) stopped breeding then only byb puppies or puppymill puppies would exist. Would this not damage the bloodlines and lead to medical or mental issues in the breeds?

BenMax
April 15th, 2009, 12:51 PM
If all ethical breeders(breeding to preserve the line) stopped breeding then only byb puppies or puppymill puppies would exist. Would this not damage the bloodlines and lead to medical or mental issues in the breeds?

Yes asking ethical breeders to stop breeding would entice puppmillers and BYBs to meet a demand. This is very true and infact would be disasterous.

Your statement about stopping the millers and BYBs is the only way to combat the overpopulation (along with everyone sterilizing their pets) is on the money. That is not a grey way of thinking. This is the only way to protect the integrity of breeds that are properly bred but this will not however alleviate all medical and mental issues unfortunately.

Love4himies
April 15th, 2009, 12:58 PM
The way i see it is, if all dogs are spay or neutered, and No one is breeding. Yes that would help with the overpopulation. But would that not cause the canine species to become extinct, since there would be no purebred or otherwise to breed?

If all ethical breeders(breeding to preserve the line) stopped breeding then only byb puppies or puppymill puppies would exist. Would this not damage the bloodlines and lead to medical or mental issues in the breeds?

I didn't state they should be altered, but I do believe they can stop breeding for a period of a couple of years.

As for puppymills, that wasn't brought up, so I didn't mention them, I wish they could just be banned for this earth :yell:.

Anywho, that was my opinion because my heart cries a tear for every pet who is homeless.

Blackdog22
April 15th, 2009, 01:06 PM
I think people have truly forgotten how much we owe to purebred dogs.
Some people need dogs. Not as pets, but as working dogs. Their lives and the safety of the public depend on it. They don't do this because they have to, or enjoy it....they do it so that you and your children can go about your day safely and with comfort. Mixed breeds are great, but even many purebreds, bred and trained specifically for that task, cannot measure up to the high demands of such serious work.....
K9s aside, what about all the other life saving careers purebreds excel at?

Mixed breeds are great, and are often better at alot of things then purbreds, but there is no consistancy. I would rather put my life in the hands of a dog who has inherent traits that make it suitable for the work.

I guess that is just my opinion.

aslan
April 15th, 2009, 01:07 PM
I didn't state they should be altered, but I do believe they can stop breeding for a period of a couple of years.

I wasn't directing my comment at your previous one and.... I'll agree, that's a great idea!

As for puppymills, that wasn't brought up, so I didn't mention them, I wish they could just be banned for this earth :yell:.

Anywho, that was my opinion because my heart cries a tear for every pet who is homeless.

As does mine and every other animal lover out there...and here.

NoahGrey
April 15th, 2009, 05:54 PM
Just like because there are byb`s and puppymills doesn`t mean all breeders are bad.

I understand the difference between byb's and puppy mills and responsible breeders.

What I am talking about is the breeders that are classifed as reputable and are not, yet the public doesn't know it. I am talking reputable breeders that are the highest rank, in clubs that are world wide known, etc.

I know there are people that are responsible, yet I still see them as contributing whole heartingly to the pet overpopuation. All for profit. While you walk the hall of a humane society and see all of the unwanted animals. When you live it everyday, you get a different preception of it. Now, don't mistake this as being rigide, close-minded, but when you look at it, it's fact. I wouldn't call my opinion/view...black and white. alot of people are just not fully aware what is going on around them, in the animal world. It's scary. In the animal welfare field that are many shades of gray...but at times, it is black and white and it needs to be. The fact is I love love love my job. It is my dream job you would say and because of it i see and view things differently then others at times.

ACO22

sugarcatmom
April 15th, 2009, 06:07 PM
All for profit.


But it's not "all for profit" for a number of great breeders. They are the ones who are breeding to improve or maintain healthy genetic bloodlines. Profit has nothing to do with it, especially since the quality of care and health testing that they provide their animals usually means losing money. If it wasn't for the responsible breeders, the good genes would get lost and the bad genes of the BYBers and millers would prevail (as Aslan pointed out).

14+kitties
April 15th, 2009, 06:23 PM
The fact is, times have changed. The majority of people do not look for a dog to be a "working" dog. They look for a dog to be a member of the family. In which case a "mutt" is "just as good" as a purebred dog.
I have a purebred. She has suffered from seizures since she was a year old. Bad breeder? Probably. Unfortunately I didn't know about BYB's when I got her almost 15 years ago. I love her to death.
I also have a mutt. As kr has told you she is the goofiest, friendliest dog you could ever hope to meet. She is our greeting committee. At almost 14 years old she gets so excited when she sees company coming. Her back end is a non stop motion machine. I love her to death too. She is from a shelter.

My point - Shelters have far too many dogs, both mutts and purebreeds, who are on their final chance. We need to find a way to put a stop to the BYB's and irresponsible owners who let their dogs mate willy nilly before anything will change. How are we going to do that? The only way I can see is education.
Which brings me back to the original point in this thread. As far as I can see Ohbama did his research before deciding, and being gifted with, this dog. He didn't rush out and get the first dog available. Could he have done better? Sure could. So could we all. :shrug:

Frenchy
April 15th, 2009, 07:18 PM
Some have commented : "If they had searched long enough ....."

Wow , this is the president of United States , I think he has more important issues to deal with , than to hang out in shelters ..... the president did NOT commit a crime by taking this dog , jeez , give him a break !!!! :rolleyes:

JennieV
April 15th, 2009, 10:50 PM
Frenchy, I agree with you. He does have more important issues to deal with.

aslan, I agree with you. Not every breeder should be treated the same.

BenMax, I agree with you. It doesn't matter, its done.

L4H, I agree with you. My heart breaks for each and every poor soul out there.

14+, I agree with you as well. We all could have done better.

Aco22, guess what, I agree with you as well...There are people out there, who present themselves as reputable, while in fact they are nowhere near that description.

Jim, I agree with you as well, I think they could have done better had they invested the time ..

Sugarcatmom, I agree with you very much, it is not all for $$ for alot of breeders out there.

Blackdog, you have an excellent point, but I don't really see how a labradoodle is going to be less trainable to work than a lab, or how a mixed-breed dog is less possible to be trained to work. I think that is all about a specific dog. Not every sheppard is a good guard dog and not every lab is a good "eye-seeing" dog. The general idea is there, but I don't discount the possibility that given a chance and a proper training the mix-breeds would do just as well.

clm, I agree with you: Black and white thinking is truly a bad thing. Gotta have all those shades of grey in between. And I think we gotta start with ourselves first, before pointing at others.

brat, I agree with you, breeding should be postponed until some of the situation has been resolved. and would like to add, that its not as simple as that, it has to come from the law as well as the public.

Copperbelle - yes, I agree with you. They did research the breed and made a clear and conscious decision about the breed they wanted. That is more than most people do.

Sylvie - I agree with you, kudos to Aco22 and to others involved in various rescues and shelters for all your hard work, don't lose hope and keep your spirits high! :thumbs up:thumbs up

And now: :grouphug: !!!

Have I missed anyone? :laughing:

Etown_Chick
April 15th, 2009, 11:30 PM
As one with allergies, like one of the Obama kids, the chances of finding an appropriate dog at a shelter is next to nil. It took me over a year to find Scruff and that was just dumb luck. Of course the Pres would have more contacts and pull than I do..but still.
How much worse would it have been for him to get a shelter dog only to have to give it up becuase a daughter was allergic.
I think his choice was very responsible.
My concern is also with the potential 'instant popularity'of a challenging breed.
I hope it doesn't happen, but I don't have much faith in humans.

Blackdog22
April 16th, 2009, 12:06 AM
Blackdog, you have an excellent point, but I don't really see how a labradoodle is going to be less trainable to work than a lab, or how a mixed-breed dog is less possible to be trained to work.

It's more about inherent ability and drive moreso then training. A good trainer can bring out the best in a dog and train it to do a task......whether the dog has the ability to do it well or not is entirely up to genetics. I'm not saying mixed breeds cannot be trained to excel in careers, many do and do it very well....as you said, it comes down to the individual dog and his or her drives. That being said, there is more consitancy in a purebred dogs tempermant. What I mean by that is, you are more likely to find a dog suitable to do the work in a litter of purebreds whos bloodline has been excelling at the said task for many generations. I'm not saying every shepherd can gaurd, and every GP will protect a flock from predators.....but you are more inclined to find an individual suitable for the job within breeds specifically designed for that task. Purebreds also have the advantage of recorded lineage, this is a great bonus for anyone looking for a working dog. Proper research of a pedigree only increase the odds that you will get what you are looking for.

All of that being said, even with extensive research on the bloodlines and the right "breed" there is still a huge possiblilty that the dog will not be suitable for the work..as ultimately it depends on the individual dog and his drives.

It comes down to the handler as well. I have not met many serious proffesionals willing to take on a mixed breed.....too many question marks about the dog. But of course, a serious proffesional is not going to turn down a good dog either, be it mixed or pure!

I guess it all comes down to personal choice, but I think a quick look at the dogs doing the real work prove that we still need purebreds, and they do their respective jobs very well.

Not every sheppard is a good guard dog and not every lab is a good "eye-seeing" dog. The general idea is there, but I don't discount the possibility that given a chance and a proper training the mix-breeds would do just as well.

It ultimately comes down to 3 things, genetics, training, enviorment. A good working dog cannot have one without the other. Plain and simple, mixed or pure. Being mixed makes it impossible to explore genetics, you basically have to 'hope for the best'. Training a mixed breed for certain specialized jobs is a crapshoot and not often done for obvious reasons

lUvMyLaB<3
April 16th, 2009, 08:51 PM
I heard this pup has been in several homes already...

I was hoping he would rescue.. but i did JUMP up and down when I dound out he was not getting a labradoodle.. Seriously.. that's all we need, more people believing that a 'oodle' anything is a 'breed' when it is a MUTT, and encourage more of that kind of irresponsible breeding..

If this is the breed they really wanted, if it came from an ethical breeder. And it really needed a home after being shuffled so many times already, then I am happy. It is ok to choose a purebred dog. Any ethical breeder I have dealt with does have it in the contract that the dog is to be spayed or neutered..

I don't think this will cause a portie population explosion, like I was worried about the doodle mutt possibility.. so all in all I am happy. I think his girls will be in love, and this dog will be their best friend, good match for all of them.

The reason I wanted him to rescue, was not for him, but hoping that it would encourage others to do the same. I guess it was unfair of us to put that job on him. That he would be picking a pet for his family for the reason of saving others. For me that is a prefect reason, but for him.. guess not.. I don't think he had a chance, no matter what he did people would have been outraged..

TeriM
April 17th, 2009, 03:26 AM
I am very glad they didn't pick a labradoodle :thumbs up. The labradoodle fad is already at full tilt and most people think they are "hypo allergenic" but really they don't get that way for generations which probably causes a lot of "returns" as people have to deal with regular coat issues :frustrated:. I''m sure this will make PWD a new target but hopefully one that is a bit harder for the BYB crowd as it is not a common dog.

I must admit I love PWD (my old neighbours had one and he totally made me love them) and have wanted one for quite some time. We looked for one when we were considering another dog and they are very difficult to find.

Bo is adorable and I think they were responsible. It is not the ideal situation that rescuing would be but I think this was a pretty good compromise.

BenMax
April 20th, 2009, 08:46 AM
Hate to say this but we had a PWD in rescue so they are in the system. Just had to say this.

joeysmama
April 21st, 2009, 10:59 AM
Yes the dog was a gift from Senator Kennedy who owns Porties but does not breed them. And he isn't a puppy but a dog that was returned to the breeder.

I was happy that they didn't go with the other "breed" that was talked about in connection with this. There was a lot of talk about a labradoodle. I'm not an expert but I don't think anyone can guarantee that a labradoodle wouldn't aggravate an allergy.

ancientgirl
April 21st, 2009, 11:08 AM
I just read Bo's half sister was found in Minnesota.

Geez, isn't that just like relatives to come out of the woodwork when you become famous?:laughing:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/20/bo-obamas-halfsister-ruby_n_189138.html

NoahGrey
April 21st, 2009, 06:25 PM
But it's not "all for profit"


Ok..but not to sound rude, but you keep telling yourself that. So you mean to tell me that when their dogs go to other homes, what they just give them the dog. No, expecially since they have put so much money into the breed. Now, it is just more money.

ACO22

Sujaki
April 21st, 2009, 07:20 PM
I think people are really beating up on Obama as well as breeders here...

first point:
If Bo was passed around from owner to owner so much, he counts as a rescue to me. He's an unwanted dog, same as the poor old mutt that gets handed around when a family member dies and no one wants the animal. Does Bo being purebred make him not count as an unwanted, homeless dog? No. He was technically homeless. Adopting him is the same as adopting the old unwanted mutt, except the family did research and decided this was the dog for them beforehand.

second:

I really don't get why people bash on breeders so much. Well, actually, I do, but all breeders are not bad. A reputable breeder making a profit? I doubt it. Most are lucky enough to break even.

Does it cost money to travel around the country or across borders to get to shows? Heck yes.
Does it cost money to pay for a good hotel that allows animals for a few nights, or even a week? Obviously.
Does it cost money to enter shows? Duh.
Does it cost money to feed the dogs a healthy, quality diet? Yes.
Do you make that much money when you sell a maximum of 10 puppies a year? Yeah, maybe, 5000-10000. But at the same time, you have to test those puppies, feed those puppies, feed that mom, and several other dogs, and with the shows and the this and the that.. Remember guys, it costs maybe a thousand a year to take care of a dog. Multiply that by seven, add some more money for the puppies and their needs, as well as the extra money for feeding a hungry bitch, her vet fees to make sure she's healthy for birth, and all of the money that goes into shows, as well as the time. .

Are all breeders like this? Obviously, no. But you can tell if they are by whether they have high standings dogs and whatnot. We all know the rules to identify a good breeder.

Blackdog22
April 21st, 2009, 07:22 PM
Off the top of my head I can think of more then a few breeders who GIVE most of there pups away for service and rehome the rest with an adoption fee no greater then any rescue or shelter. IMO it's ignorant to judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.

Etown_Chick
April 21st, 2009, 09:34 PM
@ Sujaki
well said. You've raised some excellent points about good breeders.