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Small, Dry, Crumbly Poops - is this normal?

Stacer
March 21st, 2009, 05:35 PM
A few weeks ago we started Skylar on prepared raw patties (Nature's Variety), this week I've noticed that her poops are very dry and crumbly. I actually watched it fall from her bum as a powder yesterday.

Also, her poops are very small compared to when she was on kibble, more like bunny turds than a full "log" of poop. She also appears to be straining slightly to get them out, not alot, but it's taking her longer to get out what used to take her a quick squat, badda bing badda boom she was done.

Is this normal or am I missing something here? Aren't the patties supposed to be a complete diet? I add a few tablespoons of plain yogurt to each meal and add tripe once or twice a week. I also squeeze a gel cap of Omega 3 fish oil into her meals.

Nature's variety may not be the best prepared raw for her, but there's a new pet food store opening up this April and the owners are raw feeders, they've assured me that they will have approx. 5-6 different brands of raw in store, so Skylar's food may change in the next month or so.

Melinda
March 21st, 2009, 05:55 PM
I had asked the vet here at the animal hospital about putting Skylar on raw feed because of all she'd been through , thinking to give her the best start and he told me because of what her system went through that she should never be put on a full raw diet, that her stomach wouldnt' be able to tolerate it. Don't ask why, I have no idea, maybe someone here could answer it?

Stacer
March 21st, 2009, 06:09 PM
Other than the poops being weird (but for all I know it may be completely normal), she has taken to raw like a champion. There have been no negative side effects so far; no vomiting, no allergic reactions. Her fur has improved over the last few weeks (it was really dry and flaky and she was shedding like crazy, her beautiful feathery tail was not feathery anymore).

And the best part are her reactions as we're preparing her food, she is so damn excited when she sees those patties. She hops around like a rabbit and can barely contain herself as the dish is being put down. She really loves it.

I would think that based on what she'd eaten during her days as a drifter, she'd have a stomach of steel. And most vets are against raw for the most part anyways right, so they'll never recommend it.

ancientgirl
March 21st, 2009, 06:19 PM
Stacer, I think L4H uses Nature's Variety. Maybe PM her and see if she's online.:shrug:

Winston
March 21st, 2009, 06:23 PM
Stacer there are lots who feed raw on here but I thought that type of poop was fairly normal with RAW? maybe not so much the straining but the poop itself. I thought someone posted that it is like that because of the bone content? not sure though?

Glad she likes it! :thumbs up

sugarcatmom
March 21st, 2009, 06:58 PM
Dryer, smaller poops are usually the norm on a raw diet. Sometimes constipation can occur when the bone content is higher than the dog needs. Couple things you could do is add some extra muscle meat to dilute the amount of bone a touch in the Nature's Variety (I think that might be what L4H does). Some people also have success feeding extra veggies or some canned pumpkin.

Melinda
March 22nd, 2009, 07:30 AM
my vet is all for a raw diet, he researched it on his own, maybe she's not getting enough moisture in it?? although if its patties then there is moisture holding it together right? *L* I can just see her hoping around waiting for her food...what a corker.

pitgrrl
March 22nd, 2009, 09:18 AM
I have no cat experience, but for my dogs, I've found that pretty much every pre-made raw food I've tried (incl. NV) has been too bone heavy. I still use pre-made stuff, but I toss in extras as well, muscle meat, organs, etc.

That said, poop from a raw diet is going to be firmer and smaller. They should NOT be white, totally lacking in any moisture and/or difficult to pass though.

erykah1310
March 22nd, 2009, 10:26 AM
I have no cat experience, but for my dogs, I've found that pretty much every pre-made raw food I've tried (incl. NV) has been too bone heavy. I still use pre-made stuff, but I toss in extras as well, muscle meat, organs, etc.

That said, poop from a raw diet is going to be firmer and smaller. They should NOT be white, totally lacking in any moisture and/or difficult to pass though.

Ditto
I would recommend adding in a bit more meat and a little touch more organ, alot of premade mixes are a little too high in bone I have found.

Melinda I had asked the vet here at the animal hospital about putting Skylar on raw feed because of all she'd been through , thinking to give her the best start and he told me because of what her system went through that she should never be put on a full raw diet, that her stomach wouldnt' be able to tolerate it. Don't ask why, I have no idea, maybe someone here could answer it?

Did you ask them exactly why not? Vets really are the last people I would talk raw diets with, unless we're talking vets who support it 100%.
What are they recommending you feed? A prescription diet?
If there has been some trauma to the digestive tract at some point I would definitely go slow on the introduction to raw, but I don't see how natures diet would be a no go because of a previous health condition especially if its been treated???
* I also am not familiar with what Skylar went through though*

Tommysmom
March 22nd, 2009, 11:20 AM
I had asked the vet here at the animal hospital about putting Skylar on raw feed because of all she'd been through , thinking to give her the best start and he told me because of what her system went through that she should never be put on a full raw diet, that her stomach wouldnt' be able to tolerate it. Don't ask why, I have no idea, maybe someone here could answer it?

My holistic vet said that about my pup - she's a huge fan of raw diets, but recommended that we stick to home-cooked for Tommy instead as his digestive tract would not be strong enough to handle raw. His digestive issues have been there since birth though, and will probably never be totally cured, only managed - he has recurring issues every season. Maybe that's what the vet was thinking? I'm not sure what Skylar's issues were, perhaps she seemed a bit too weak at the time but it sounds as though she's handling it like a champ now.

Melinda
March 22nd, 2009, 11:48 AM
:sorry::offtopic:just to clear up a bit, and to rush to my vets rescue *L* I really love this man, he has his yellow lab on a raw diet. This is why he's researched it on his own, he also tells you to avoid science diet even though its sold at his practice, he's one of 3 owners and of course doesn't have complete say over all. He also does't believe in yearly vacinations....although Brina's papers state she has it done yearly ;) (I work for the city with children and have to show proof)

oh and that said, I really know nothing about feeding raw except what I've read in this forum, so I really can't add anything or help.

Stacer
March 22nd, 2009, 11:52 AM
Thanks for the responses. I will defintely add some muscle meat to her diet, and the pumpkin. Her poops still have lots of colour, so that's good, but the minor straining bothers me, so I'll be sure to note how it changes as I add more muscle.

I really should get video of her hopping aroudnat dinner time, maybe this evening I'll do that :D

For those of you that don't know Skylar's story: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=50551&highlight=whisper

Love4himies
March 22nd, 2009, 12:33 PM
Yes, I find most prepared raw diets have much too much bone in it so I did end up giving my fosters some plain muscle meat. I also find that it has too much liver in it too.:frustrated:

I now do my own raw, measuring out bone, muscle meat, and liver and know for sure that they contain more than the recommended 10%. Poops are much better now. It is sooooo much cheaper too. :thumbs up

Love4himies
March 22nd, 2009, 12:35 PM
BTW, I find raw much easier on cat's tummies than processed. I can't believe the difference in Jasper and Sweet Pea's poops.

Melinda
March 22nd, 2009, 03:23 PM
*smacks Stacer for posting that memory* *LOL* I only got through the first page and I was crying remembering the love Skylar gives....you better be coming through this way in the summer girly...ahem, was that not part of the contract?? a yearly visit to Cornwall *runs to add it to the paper she signed*

Stacer
March 22nd, 2009, 04:33 PM
We've got our vacation booked for the week overlapping June/July. We're undecided where we're going to go. Nova Scotia was on our list, but I think we want to go somewhere a little closer so we can enjoy more of our week. I'm sure we could still go east, and make a pitstop in Cornwall ;) Are there good cottage rentals anywhere in eastern ontario?

Stacer
March 22nd, 2009, 04:34 PM
Are you and hubs still making the journey to Port Dover this summer? Our invite still stands.

angeldogs
March 22nd, 2009, 08:34 PM
Jags poop was some what like that when he got to much bone.and poops were smaller when on a raw diet.

Melinda
March 23rd, 2009, 04:31 AM
Are you and hubs still making the journey to Port Dover this summer? Our invite still stands.


thats still up in the air also, Brockville/thousand island has cottage rentals...L4H would probably be able to tell you more about them, its all around her area if I'm not mistaken.

Love4himies
March 23rd, 2009, 07:12 AM
There are some cottage rentals in our area right on the water. Drive by them everyday, but do you think I can remember their names. If you want I can get some info for you.

MerlinsHope
March 23rd, 2009, 10:33 AM
A few weeks ago we started Skylar on prepared raw patties (Nature's Variety), this week I've noticed that her poops are very dry and crumbly. I actually watched it fall from her bum as a powder yesterday.

Hi Stacer

Dry, powdery or crumbly poops mean there is not enough meat in your dog's diet and too much bone. You have to "up" the content of meat.

I really hope to encourage you to simply purchase meat at a food store or butcher. It's cheaper, doesn't contain any unwanted additives like commercial raw does, is not as balanced as most people think they are, and also you have full control over what goes into your dog. Patronizing commercial raw is no different than buying commercial kibble. Most serious raw feeders try to offer a natural diet as much as possible.

Simply ad more meat to your dog or cat's diet.
Cheers
MM

lia12
March 23rd, 2009, 12:29 PM
I'm a raw feeder and the thing I love about it is the nice hard dry poop the dog has. Mostly white because of the bones. Only one poop a day or every second day so it makes cleanup faster and easier. Also no soft smelly poop, raw fed dogs don't have stinky poops.

MerlinsHope
March 23rd, 2009, 02:03 PM
The fact that you like it is wonderful, but unfortunately, it is a sign of too much bone. Raw fed dog stool should be brown, not grey, yellow or white and it shouldn't be crumbly either.

It is a very significant sign that your diet is lacking in merit, so much more meat must be added to the diet .

Cheers
MM

MerlinsHope
March 23rd, 2009, 04:33 PM
I'm just adding a "PS", here for lia.

You mention that your dogs "go" once a day or every other day.
This is a perilous, perilous thing you are saying, and your dog is well on his/her way towards an impaction.

Your dog should "go" about 4-5 hours after any meal, because that is how long it takes for the intestines to process raw food.
Assuming that you feed your dog twice a day, it should 'go', twice a day.
The fact that your dog is going every other day is not at all a good thing and you shouldn't interpret it as being positive, it is not.

Stools should be normal, not hard, not soft, they should be brown, and essentially whenever your dog eats, it should "go".

Please be very wary of this.

Cheers
MM

Stacer
March 24th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Thanks for the advice Merlinshope.

We've added the pumpkin and it has made quite the difference. Her poops are not as crumbly and they actually look moist. We still need to get some muscle meat to add to the mix, I'll get on that this week.

The good thing is that her poops were never white or pale, they remained brown even though they were very dry. She has as least two per day unless she gets a really long walk and she'll give us an extra one ;)

Her poops are quite small compared to her kibble poops, is this OK?

angeldogs
March 24th, 2009, 08:31 PM
Her poops should be smaller.one thing i noticed right away was the size difference.

MerlinsHope
March 25th, 2009, 06:22 AM
We've added the pumpkin and it has made quite the difference

Hi Stacer:

Oh yes, smaller poops are normal. This means more nutrition is staying inside the body, rather than be tossed outside.

Adding pumpkin is not the correct approach towards the diet. You have to see how wrong that is.

Adding a "stool softener" is fine if you actually have an odd or rare temporary problem, but the correct solution is to improve the quality of the diet, rather than placating it.

If you feed raw appropriately, there is no need for pumpkin or any other type of device to help your pet defecate properly.

Cheers
MM

subie59
May 25th, 2009, 06:17 AM
All good points so far but I have found that there is no question that a dog's poop on Raw is going to be drier, smaller and harder than a dog on commercial food. And, as a result, I think they sometimes strain a little to relieve themselves. This plays an important role in clearing out their anal glands, which is a very good thing.

MerlinsHope
May 26th, 2009, 06:13 AM
Then again, you are feeding too much bone and there is not enough water in the gut.
Poop should be "normal", firm, but not hard, not necessarily smaller, and definitely should be wonderful shades of brown.

Cheers
MM

lia12
May 27th, 2009, 01:26 PM
My dogs are 14 , 9 and 5 yrs old. So far they have never had to go to the vets because of an impaction or any other problem with firmer stools. So your theory on too much bone is a bit off. All my dogs get an annual check and have never had a problem. The bonus is no vet bills for me. If the bone meat ratio is a bit off one day they will just drink more water. Straining a bit to pass the poop is very normal in raw fed dogs and as was pointed out this is what keeps them from impacted anal galnds. Meanwhile I have lees stool to dispose of and a cleaner yard. Also vey healthy dogs with shiny gleaming coats. My vet knows my feeding program and approves 100%.

MerlinsHope
May 27th, 2009, 03:28 PM
Listen, not every dog who has hard stools is going to end up impacted, some certainly could, and certainly others will not, but irregardless, a raw regime isn't about a clean yard, and less stool to clean up, it's about quality nutrition.

Say what you want, if the stools are overtly hard then you are not offering your dog as much quality nutrition as you could be, and it is, "The General indicator", that you need to add more meat to the diet, and no, straining is not a natural tendency, I don't know where you heard that from. Just having roughage pass down the colon is enough to stimulate the anal glands, it certainly doesn't have to be due to hard stools which, if occured every day, would be an anomaly.

Do you strain every time you go to the bathroom? Would you consider that normal if you did? Would you base your own eating habits on you having to run to the bathroom less each day so that you use less toilet paper? - because that seems to be what you are saying here.

I tend to disagree with you whole heatedly if that's what you're saying, but naturally that's my own prerogative. Stools should be firm, but not hard and dry day in and day out..

Cheers
MM

puppypie
May 27th, 2009, 11:53 PM
Great thread - Glad to be here.

First I started with the raw medalions and her poop turned scary white and looked like it was almost encased in some sort of clear rubber or wrapping or mucus.

Got scared

Started raw Prey model - meaty bones meaty meat - slowly starting with organs and just ordered tripe. So I am all in here---

Here pools have been a lovely golden color odorles, and a bit crumbly--some one gave her a cookie yesterday and she had a diareah today--I am very much again wheat germ or what ever thing they used.

So is this golden mean to much bone? :shrug: Do I need more meaty meat to get it browner?

some on sliped in a patty the other day two and she has a white poo

I am off patty's for good now and not letting anyone give her anything I don't want her to have:evil:

I love this deit for her--she loves it--even eats her organ meat with no problem and ate fish when she saw she had no choice. she just loves chicken thighs and goat bones etc.

I know this is LONG--- thanks for reading and all comments welcome and looked forword to.

Mel

MerlinsHope
May 28th, 2009, 06:37 AM
Hey PuppiePie

I'm happy to hear you got off the commercial raw. I hope that many people read your post and digest, ( pardon the pun), what you are saying.

Generally speaking without getting gross, feces should be a varying range of browns. Not white..... and golden means borderline too much bone....... and certainly any signs of straining should be taken seriously enough to indicate that more water is needed in the gut and more meat is needed in the diet.'''

I'm always excited when I hear about someone making the 'switch'

Cheers and best of luck
MM

lia12
May 28th, 2009, 12:02 PM
Great thread - Glad to be here.

First I started with the raw medalions and her poop turned scary white and looked like it was almost encased in some sort of clear rubber or wrapping or mucus.

Got scared

Started raw Prey model - meaty bones meaty meat - slowly starting with organs and just ordered tripe. So I am all in here---

Here pools have been a lovely golden color odorles, and a bit crumbly--some one gave her a cookie yesterday and she had a diareah today--I am very much again wheat germ or what ever thing they used.

So is this golden mean to much bone? :shrug: Do I need more meaty meat to get it browner?

some on sliped in a patty the other day two and she has a white poo

I am off patty's for good now and not letting anyone give her anything I don't want her to have:evil:

I love this deit for her--she loves it--even eats her organ meat with no problem and ate fish when she saw she had no choice. she just loves chicken thighs and goat bones etc.

I know this is LONG--- thanks for reading and all comments welcome and looked forword to.

Mel




I think you've already figured out that commercial food is not what you are looking for. the best you can offer your dog is the Barf diet. I've always made my own , my vet knows what goes in it and most of all so do I so I know how well balanced the meals I feed are. No poop should be encased in mucus. I prefer making my own dog treats for the reason you mention above. I would never go back to any kind of commercial dog food again, especially at the rate it's being pulled off the shelves. When you serve your dog a meal think of a rabbit. In the wild, if your dog was to catch and eat a rabbit he would have consumed the best meal possible. The ratio of bone to meat is perfect and surprisingly enough the dogs will eat most of the fur as roughage. They get liver, intestines and contents, everything well balanced . I always keep this little gem in mind when preparing a meal, a trick my vet taught me.

MerlinsHope
May 28th, 2009, 01:28 PM
When you serve your dog a meal think of a rabbit. In the wild, if your dog was to catch and eat a rabbit he would have consumed the best meal possible

Too true. I always tell people that as well.
No matter how big or small the game, it only has one heart, two kidneys, one liver and heaps of meat.

MM
:)

puppypie
May 28th, 2009, 03:42 PM
God my spelling in the last one was pathetic--anyway:)

Feed less bone and it got browner and not powdery--a part a little rasperry color, does not look like blood though--maybe marrow?

I am doing prey with an ounce of veg just to be sure--Is any one doing prey or or most people on BARF---???

puppypie
May 28th, 2009, 03:48 PM
is it up? I tried looking at it--no luck

MerlinsHope
May 29th, 2009, 05:58 AM
I am doing prey with an ounce of veg just to be sure--Is any one doing prey or or most people on BARF---???

Just to be sure of what??? :rolleyes:

The raspberry colour could be coming from vegetable matter. The key is that feces shouldn't be dry and powdery or white. It's also normal that the consistency will change or vary depending on type of meat fed.
We do prey model here by the way. The info on my page is working don't know why you can access it. Here's the link again
http://www.clubequestre.com/merlinshope/index.php?categoryid=9&p2_articleid=66

lia12
May 29th, 2009, 09:20 PM
Don't exactly know what you mean by prey but if we get rabbits from a hunter my dogs get that. When hunting season is on us they get venison. If you used beets in your veggie mix that's probably where the rasberry colour comes from. Another handy and readily available meal are chicken leg quarters that I get on sale. A variety keeps them happy.