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New owner to a baby yorkie

Urahkai
August 4th, 2004, 12:43 PM
Hello. I am new to these forums, and i am also new to my babyYorkshire Terrier.
I just want to share some general facts and get some information from others to guide me and answere some questions.

first of all... I got this Yorkie for 800 dollars at a puppy store. the woman said it was a "tea-cup" yorkie, But i knew that yorkies cant have tea cups. Generally, it is a smaller dog. The mom is 3 pounds I think? The dad is a normal yorkie becuase she said if you breed 2 SMALL dogs, youll get an unhealthy SMALLER dog. I want to know, is the 800 dollars worth this puppy? Becuase ive heard they sell those puppies for 1,200-1,400.

Second of all, my vet said the yorkie might have symptoms of kennel cough. of ALL of the symptoms there is from kennel cough, she only suffers from one. She coughs, but RARELY. maybe every evening, for about 10 seconds. They gave her an injection, and some little pills i have to give her every 12 hours, and shes showing great improvement.

Finally, I want to know any facts, hints, or suggestions any one can give me on how to raise my yorkie into a healthy adult. If anyone can give me any house training tips, PLEASE DO SO! I will very much apreciate it.

Thank you very much, Juan.

daisy18216
August 4th, 2004, 01:07 PM
First I want to say Welcome to the group!!! :D

That is a cute little pupper you have there.


I want to know, is the 800 dollars worth this puppy? Becuase ive heard they sell those puppies for 1,200-1,400. :eek: I honestly don't think a puppy is worth that much especially coming from a pet store. The reason I say that is b/c look at the problems you have.

Secondly, why didn't you go to a rescue, SPCA or shelter for a yorkie?? :confused: I bought my first dog (Sib. Husky) from a Pet store that was before I knew about the BYB and puppy mills. If anyone I know is ever looking for a pet i suggest on adopting from a rescue, SPCA, or shelter.

As far as your dog being small due to the person (BYB or puppy mill) who bred them, I don't know if there is anything else you can do.

Sorry I wasn't more helpful to you.

sammiec
August 4th, 2004, 01:10 PM
first of all... I got this Yorkie for 800 dollars at a puppy store. the woman said it was a "tea-cup" yorkie, But i knew that yorkies cant have tea cups. Generally, it is a smaller dog. The mom is 3 pounds I think? The dad is a normal yorkie becuase she said if you breed 2 SMALL dogs, youll get an unhealthy SMALLER dog. I want to know, is the 800 dollars worth this puppy? Becuase ive heard they sell those puppies for 1,200-1,400.

Second of all, my vet said the yorkie might have symptoms of kennel cough. of ALL of the symptoms there is from kennel cough, she only suffers from one. She coughs, but RARELY. maybe every evening, for about 10 seconds. They gave her an injection, and some little pills i have to give her every 12 hours, and shes showing great improvement.

Welcome to the board!! Your puppy is VERY cute!!! I would not be surprised if your pup did have kennel cough though. That's one alment that usually comes from store bought pets. :( Please have a good visit with your vet and express any and all questions and concerns you might have! Unfortunately, the 800 dollars you spent on your adorable pooch just went towards funding another puppy mill!! There are a few recent threads located here about people having difficulties with store bought pets!

I hope everything works out for you guys!! Sadly enough, you might have been able to adopt a Yorie from a rescue and help a homeless animal, for a much smaller fee than 800 dollars!! - mind you I would have paid 800 to a rescue for a dog, at least I would know it was going to a good place!! But the deed is done!!

Again, welcome and she is VERY adorable!!!

Urahkai
August 4th, 2004, 01:18 PM
I have tried looing for small dogs with soft hair in shelters, and the humane society, but all of the small dogs are taken the minute they get there, And not only that, but the dogs are all reserved!!!

The reason I want a small dog is because we had big dogs before and they are a HUGE problem! They get angry when a storm comes and they destory everything. Also, when they evacuate... Wow. That is all i have to say lol. Another thing, im really allergic to animals, but im not allergic to dogs with soft hair, such as the hair on my familys pomeranian, or the hair on my new pup.

It seemed the only place i could find a pup with the things i was looking for was a puppy store. Ive seen puppys go for 1,300... And the tea cups were near 1500. Anyways, when i bought my new yorkie for 800, it came with legal papers ( which shows that she has ALL of her shots), it also came with a 1 year warranty to cover illness or hereditery problems, and it also came with a 1 time free visit to her vet (which i didnt take becuase i have a trusted vet).

Urahkai
August 4th, 2004, 01:24 PM
I was very aware of the puppy mills. This woman owns a private store with her husband, and she was recommended by a family friend. I saw the yorkie mother and father, and the woman does it for her profit only. She doesnt buy them from puppy mills or any other place. Its kind of like a family buissness thing. the mother and father looked very healthy, and the puppies werent really in kennels. They were in corral with their brothers and sisters, and the mother was in the next corral, giving milk to some puppies that the woman told me werent ready to be sold. the father was seperated from the family, in a room of all males.

glasslass
August 4th, 2004, 02:19 PM
In answer to your original question, every puppy is worth it! What do you spend when you go out to dinner and a movie? How long does the pleasure last? The real question is how much are you willing to spend in time, love, and commitment? This is what determines how good a pet it will be. And the pleasure will last years and years, even after they've gone. He's a little cutie! Take good care of him. Enjoy!

Luba
August 4th, 2004, 02:26 PM
So you know about puppy mills and yet you STILL bought from a pet store selling puppies. How completely and utterly irresponsible. THANK YOU for making our jobs harder trying to stop the mills and congratulations for putting more money into these Aholes pockets to encourage them to irresponsibly and cruely breed more genetically faulty and sick puppies. :mad:

Shameful and disgusting. So what it's a private store? Does that make a difference to where the dogs come from? It's a load of B.S that you couldn't get a small breed dog from a rescue/shelter, that's the largest load of manure I've ever heard. How do YOU know they dont get the pups from mills or backyard breeders?? HOW? DId you see where the pups were raised? Did you see the parentage? Did you meet the breeders? Did you get a health certificate? IS the puppy registered?

Give me a break!!


A puppy's story from a mill:

From a puppy's point of view
I don't remember much from the place I was born. It was cramped and dark and we were never played with by humans. I remember Mom and her soft fur, but she was often sick, and very thin. She had hardly any milk for me and my brothers and sisters. I remember many of them dying, and I missed them so.
I do remember the day I was taken from Mom. I was so sad and scared, my milk teeth had only just come in, and I really should have been with Mom still, but she was so sick, and the humans kept saying that they wanted money and were sick of the "mess" that my sister and I made. So we were crated up and taken to a strange place. Just the two of us. We huddled together and were scared, still no human hands came to pet us or to love us.
So many sights and sounds, and smells!! We are in a store where there are many different animals! Some that squawk! Some that meow! Some that peep! My sister and I are jammed into a small cage, I hear other puppies whine. I see humans looking at me, I like the "little humans", they look like they'd be fun, like they would play with me!
All day we are kept in the small cage, sometimes mean people will hit the glass and frighten us, every once in a while we are taken out to be held or shown to humans. Some are gentle, some hurt us, we always hear "AW they are so cute! I want one!" but we never get to go with any.
My sister died last night, when the store was dark. I lay my head on her soft fur and felt the life leave her small thin body. I had heard them say she was sick, and that I should be sold at a "discount price" so that I would quickly leave the store. I softly whined to mourn for her as they took her body out of the cage in the morning, I wondered where they put her?
Today, a family came and bought me! Oh happy day!! They are a nice family, they really, really wanted me! They had bought a dish and food and the little girl held me so tenderly in her arms. I love her so much! The mom and dad say what a sweet and good puppy I am! I am named Angel. I love to lick my new humans!
The family takes such good care of me, they are loving and tender and sweet. They gently teach me right from wrong, give me good food and lots of "LOVE". I want only to please these wonderful people! I love the little girl and I enjoy running and playing with her.
Today I went to the Veterinarian. It was a strange place and I was frightened. I got some shots, but my best friend (the little girl) held me softly and said it would be OK. So I relaxed. The Vet must have said sad words to my beloved family, because they looked awfully sad. I heard severe hip dysplacia, and something about my heart... I heard the vet say something about, back yard breeders and my parents not being tested. I didn't know what any of this meant, just that it hurt me to see my family so sad. But they still loved me, and I still loved them very much!!!
I am now 6 months old. Where most of the other puppies are robust and rowdy, it hurts me terribly just to move. The pain never lets up. It hurts to run and play with my beloved little girl, and I find it hard to breathe. I keep trying my best to be the strong pup I know I am supposed to be, but it is so hard. It breaks my heart to see the little girl so sad, and to hear her mom and dad talk about, it might now be the time. Several times I have gone to the Veterinarians place. I just wanted to feel the warm sunshine and run, and play and nuzzle with my family.
Last night was the worst. Pain has been my constant companion now, it hurts even to get up and get a drink. I try to get up but can only whine in pain. I am taken in the car one last time. Everyone is so sad, and I don't know why. Have I been bad? I try to be good and loving, what have I done wrong? Oh if only this pain would be gone! If only I could soothe the tears of the little girl. I reach out my muzzle to lick her hand, but have to stop because of the pain.
&nsp; The Veterinarian's table is so cold. I am so frightened. My humans hug and love me, they cry into my soft fur. I can feel their love and sadness. I manage to lick their hands softly. Even the vet doesn't seem so scary today. He is gentle and I sense some kind of relief for my pain. The little girl holds me softly and I thank her, for giving me all her love. I feel a soft pinch in my foreleg. The pain is beginning to lift. I am beginning to feel a peace descend upon me. I can now softly lick her hand. My vision is becoming dream like now, and I see my Mother, my brothers and sisters, in a far off green place. They tell me there is no pain there only peace and happiness. I tell the family, good-bye in the only way I know how, a soft wag of my tail and nuzzle of my nose. I had hoped to spend many, many happy years with them, but it was not meant to be. The pain ends now and, I know it will be many years until I see my beloved family again. If only things could have been different.

"I am sorry," said the Vet. "Pet shop puppies do not come from ethical breeders. I am so tired of putting so many of these kind of puppies to sleep."



This story may be published or reprinted in the hopes that it will stop unethical breeders and those who breed only for money and not for the betterment of the breed.




GRAPHIC PUPPY MILL PICS COMING UP.....................
Oh and I guess you had no idea that Yorkies are one of the TOP mill dogs huh!








http://www.darkrose-bds.com/kennel/mill6.gif

http://www.darkrose-bds.com/kennel/Mill2.gif

http://www.darkrose-bds.com/kennel/Mill3.gif

http://www.critterhaven.us/images/millpups.jpg

http://www.critterhaven.us/images/wirecages.jpg

http://www.petitblancmaltese.com/mydogfilth2.jpg

sammiec
August 4th, 2004, 02:26 PM
In answer to your original question, every puppy is worth it! What do you spend when you go out to dinner and a movie? How long does the pleasure last? The real question is how much are you willing to spend in time, love, and commitment? This is what determines how good a pet it will be. And the pleasure will last years and years, even after they've gone. He's a little cutie! Take good care of him. Enjoy!

Very nice Lass, well spoken as usual!!!

sammiec
August 4th, 2004, 02:33 PM
Our posts came up at the same time Lube, I am crying as I type this. That story was SOO sad. I hope everyone has a chance to read this, and takes the times. Thanks Luba.

daisy18216
August 4th, 2004, 02:45 PM
Luba, that story was sad, I cried as I read that. But it is also the truth. I'm looking into going to be a vet tech and I'm sure I'm going to have to help in situations like this. I have a big heart, and want to help the animals, as I know that my heart will be breaking at times. As I don't like seeing animals in pain and senseless pain only b/c the byb and puppy mills want $$$$$ that's all it is to them, they can careless about the dogs, and that breaks my heart.

I'm going to copy that and put it on my site. Thank you for that story. I hope that will help stop the BYB and puppy mills.

Luba
August 4th, 2004, 02:58 PM
There are currently (502) small breed dogs in rescues/shelters in Florida right now.
Doesn't seem like you did much looking at all! Here are some of them! Lets hope u don't DUMP the dog you got now to go looking for another one since u made a mistake by buying from a pet store/byb/mill.

Any other stretch of the truth stories you want to share???


http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/FL280/FL280.2601139-1-x.jpg

http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/FL280/FL280.2601092-1-x.jpg

http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/FL399/FL399.3124038-1-x.jpg

http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/FL343/FL343.3068602-1-x.jpg


http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/FL206/FL206.3210254-1-x.jpg

http://www.petfinder.com/fotos/FL143/FL143.2917972-1-x.jpg

Urahkai
August 4th, 2004, 02:59 PM
I saw both the parents, they were both healthy animals. The owner specialized ONLY in yorkies, and she was strict. I wanted the one of the smaller ones, but she wouldnt let me have one becuase they were still too youngeto be sold (they were drinking from the mothers nipples). In the corral oppisite of that there were the older brothers and sisters who were allowed to be sold.

She also got very personal. She asked me if there were any small children in our house that could hurt the dog, she asked me if we had any other animals and asked me the breed, and if they were capalble of harming her, she made sure i understood all of the legal papers, and gave me a list that shows the vaccinations she will need when she is older. She has a blue legal paper hat has a state of florida seal on it, and it has all of her shots, it sais some things about being tested negative for worms, and stuff of the sort.

Our family friend is good friends with the lady that sold us the yorkie, and she told us that she breeds her own yorkies. The lady only has yorkies, no other dogs. And she tok really good care of them.

I doubt this dog is from a puppy mill if i saw both the mother and father. And judging by how the lady was getting into my personal life, I think she wanted to make sure i was right for the dog.

I just really dont think this dog is from a puppy mill. Shes only known us 2 days and she loves us to peices. She waits for me outside of the shower, and forces me to clean my face after drowning me in dog saliva from all of the kisses she gives me. I heard puppies from puppy mills look sickly, and they distrust humans.

Luba
August 4th, 2004, 03:00 PM
So where is your registration and health certificate then?
Don't u know backyard breeders are just as bad they're only in it for the money and know NOTHING about breeding!

shan
August 4th, 2004, 03:14 PM
I also cried reading that. It truly hit home for me. Annie came from a puppy mill... I was just completely unaware and uneducated at the time I bought her. I feel SO bad for supporting them, and even worse to think that my baby's first 8 weeks were so sad. I am forever greatful that I saved her. In fact she developed a cherry eye within a week and a half of me buying her, and I am sure had she still been at that horrid place she would not be here anymore.... thank god I got her, because she is such a smart wonderful dog. In the future, if I ever go to get a dog again I will do my research. I WILL NOT support animal abuse. And I have a knot in my stomach knowing that I accidentaly did....

daisy18216
August 4th, 2004, 03:20 PM
shan, I too was uneducated when I bought my Husky from the Pet store, Never again will I buy a dog. If we ever want another dog in the future I will go to rescue, shelter and pay them the fee.

My hubby got his GSD from a pet store and this was before I met him he agrees that no more buying from pet store or byb or puppymill.

I'm glad I know the things I know now, now I'm able to help other people when they talk about wanting to get a pet.

Luba
August 4th, 2004, 03:23 PM
She has a blue legal paper hat has a state of florida seal on it, and it has all of her shots, it sais some things about being tested negative for worms, and stuff of the sort.


Any health certificate when used in registering/breeding dogs must have the name of the vet clinic and vet that signed it!

So the pup you are talking about IS ACK certified? OR you got a phony paper?? WHich one?

Urahkai
August 4th, 2004, 03:28 PM
I have the papers here with me. I have the health certificate. Its blue, it has the state of florida seal on it, it shows ALL of the vaccinations shes every had, it shows tests she has had, her birthday, her sex, her breed, her color,her species, and her tattoo or microchip number. It also has the vet that gave it all of the shots, the vets adress, phone number and the name of the vets buissness.

Lucky Rescue
August 4th, 2004, 03:36 PM
Your puppy is, of course, adorable. One thing with very small puppies is to make sure they eat at least 4 meals a day. If they don't eat often enough, they can become hypoglecemic, and this can be fatal if not taken care of right away.

Yorkies can also be difficult to housetrain, so be patient. Get her on good quality food - no Purina, Pedigree or Iams.

She doesnt buy them from puppy mills or any other place. Its kind of like a family buissness thing. the mother and father looked very healthy, and the puppies werent really in kennels.

Sorry, but your puppy is from a backyard breeder. NO reputable breeders would put their puppies in "puppy stores" OR breed a bitch under 5 pounds.

They would NOT breed dogs who are not show champions and who have NOT been tested against any genetic defects common to the breed.

They would NOT just breed for "profit"

"Looking healthy" means nothing. You can't see a genetic disposition for something like luxating patellas - a very common ailment of small, badly bred dogs and very expensive to fix.

That is a large pricetag for a puppy from unhealth tested and untitled parents. In fact it's way too high.

I hope your little puppy is going to be healthy, after it gets over the kennel cough!!

GsdDiamond
August 4th, 2004, 03:47 PM
There's a huge difference between buying a puppy from a pet store and buying one from a registered breeder.

I too could have bought my dog from a pet store (I wanted a purebred GSD) but instead chose to go with a VERY well known breeder, who breeds only champions. I lucked out and got my little girl for a very cheap $800, but only because she can't be shown.

Is your dog registered with the ACK and guaranteed? My dog is guaranteed (the whole life) for hip/elbow displaysia (sp?) and is registered with the CKC. Her mom and dad are Canadian champions (both born in Germany), as are many of her brothers and sisters from previous litters.

Of course I bought a dog that couldn't be a show dog....cause I wanted a pet, not a prize. (she's full coated)

Sneaky2006
August 4th, 2004, 03:51 PM
Let me first say that I haven't ever bought a pup from a breeder or store or BYB etc. I do not agree with what they do, and how they do things for obvious reasons.
Now please don't jump on me for this question. If we don't buy these pups from these places that have probs, who will? You probably think that if we don't buy them they'll be shut down cause lack of sales, but that probably just adds to the lack of care and food to these puppies because there's no money coming in. Meaning, they WILL find a way to keep doing it and experimenting.
I 100% agree that these places be shut down (all of em) and the owners of the stores/mills shouldn't even be allowed to have any animal for a pet. But how would that happen without further neglecting the animals if no one bought any?

lauriem
August 4th, 2004, 03:56 PM
Hi Juan, and a huge welcome to the site!
You'll find a wealth of info here as well as people who care about their pets. I understand your worries about you sweet little puppy, as I bought two from abackyard breeder and one from a pet shop, another was given to me by an elderly lady who could not care for him. The one I bought from the pet shop was almost 400.00 for a cross chihuahua breed. They could not tell me what she was crossed with? but I bought her anyway. Why? you might ask,,,, simple, I was uneducated on puppy mills, breeders pet stores, and the likes! All I saw was this sweet, cute loving little animal stuck in a cage. She was so small her feet were faling through the bottom of the shop cage.

I went home after holding the dog at the pet shop and could not sleep thinking of her stuck there in that cage. I took the day off and went back to the store to buy her.

From what you say your pup seems to be in good health, the kennel cough will go away, mine had it too.

Oh and Luba, thanks for the tear jerker!
Laurie

Lucky Rescue
August 4th, 2004, 03:56 PM
If we don't buy these pups from these places that have probs, who will? You probably think that if we don't buy them they'll be shut down cause lack of sales,

I know they would shut down. This is a BUSINESS to the millers and the puppies are a product. They have no love for dogs, and merely and only breed them to make money. Supply and demand is what keeps this disgusting business going.

If you had a store that sold fur coats, and no one ever bought one, would you keep your business open? Of course not.

Everyone who thinks they are "rescuing" a puppy by buying it a petstore is actually helping to perpetuate the abuse against these animals, and putting money directly into the pockets of the millers.

It's only when people stop financially supporting the millers and bybers will it stop.

shan
August 4th, 2004, 04:01 PM
I understand that you are so excited about the puppy! I was too. I also didnt want to believe that I had purchased from a puppy mill. But I did. The "Breeders" also seemed very interested in my life telling me what to do what not to do etc., Asking questions. They also seemed to care about the animals as well. I guess they just cared about profit more... Now, I eventually determined that I had purchased from a puppy mill, and here is why ( and I could be wrong on this, so please correct me if I am!) from what I hear, most good breeders will have only one litter at a time. Most good breeders also have a waiting list as well, and you cant just immediately get a dog from them. Also they will offer a lifetime health gaurantee on genetic defects. And they will always take the dog back if you cant keep it. Maybe this person isnt one of the worst puppy mills ever, but they obviously care a little to much about profit. I do not mean to look down on you, as I was sucked into a puppy mill purchase also, and it sounds like you truly thought they were a good place to buy from. I am also not saying your dog is not "good". My Annie is wonderful. I just think that we all need to be educated a bit more, and in the future, buy with more reasearch as well as helping opthers to do the same! Good luck with your baby!

Urahkai
August 4th, 2004, 04:02 PM
This health paper i have shows all of the immunizations, and all of the tests shes had. she has a 5 digit number assinged to her "microchip tag or tattoo". In the bottom it has a thing that sais "under florida law all egistered breeders are to have a veteranary screening before the sale of this animal" And then it has the vets name, the vets adress, phone number, information.

there is also many seals over the paper. The one that stands out the most is the state of florida seal and under it it sais florida department of agriculture and consumer services. then the line under it sais division of animal industry, bureau of animal disease control.

Sneaky2006
August 4th, 2004, 04:15 PM
Lucky, I am glad you responded to my post.
And I don't know what to say. I'm sure if they had no sales for months and months, even a year that they would be shut down, but what's happening to those animals in the mean time especially if they (owners) knew they were going down, that's what I can't bear to think about. That's why maybe I'm glad sometimes ppl buy these dogs, but then it would add to profit and being able to stay open. I'm at a loss for words here (which doesn't happen often :o )

GsdDiamond
August 4th, 2004, 04:58 PM
Hindsight is 20/20 when it comes to buying animals. Word of mouth usually comes within ear shot AFTER you've got your loved one home.

The most important thing is that your little doggy is happy & healthy. I for one wish you well with the newest member of your family.

FYI: the paper you have says your dog is healthy, not registered with the AKC. One thing I would do though, is bring your little girl to a vet that YOU know and trust.

Luba
August 4th, 2004, 08:07 PM
Backyard breeders are JUST as bad as mills, there is NO difference.

AKC Registration is automatic if you buy from a reputable breeder - they will provide all necessary paperwork when you buy a puppy. It is not a selling point, and shouldn't be treated as one


10 Rules of Ethical Breeding
http://www.phouka.com/puppy/bdr_ethics.html
The only reason to be breeding purebred dogs is to preserve the best qualities of the breed. Breeding to supply any market is not a justification.

You need to do all of your breeding with the best interests of the breed in mind. Never your pocket book.

For this you need to be a serious student of the breed and devote years of your life to it. No "in one day, out the other".

As a beginner you need to engross yourself in the breed as much as possible and ideally find a suitable mentor.

In order to be a serious breeder, you must show and compete.

You need to keep track of all puppies you produce, whether pet or show, to know how your breeding program is working.

All pet dogs need to go on a spay/neuter contract.

All show puppies need to go on a contract that will not allow breeding unless the dog lives up to the quality intended and passes all health checks and certification necessary for that breed. If a prospective breeder does not want to do this, then I am sorry but they will have to mess with someone else's dogs not mine!!
Co-ownerships allow you a certain amount of control in this regard because they require your signature in order that puppies be registered. The latest news from the AKC is that there is a pending change to the rules that will not allow registration unless all papers are properly signed. If you have a difference with your co-owner it will need to be settled in court before the AKC will register litters or puppies. This is new and still pending, but a step in the right direction.


Every breeder owes to the breed and to themselves to be involved with rescue.

Every breeder should be prepared to take any dog back for whatever reason. If they do not have the space, then they need to be prepared to make other arrangements. But take back they must!

Urahkai
August 4th, 2004, 10:36 PM
I took her to my vet the first day i got her. Everything was in working order with the pup. She checked for heart conditions, hernias, gave her a vaccine and weighed her and stuff. I wanna ask her about the whole AKC and paper things next time I go.
By the way, i wanna ask a question. Is an indoors place with larger kennels, 24 hour vet care, and a good sanitary conditions still considered a puppy mill? I was talking with my friend today, and she said she was POSITIVE she volunteered in a puppy mill, but she told me there were vets there, they cleaned the cages every morning and night, And that it was indoors and the temperature was also kept around 75 (from what she guessed) in summer, and the AC was turned off in winter. However, they bred the dogs to be sold. And any dogs that showed signs of sickness were moved to a "sick" room were they would spend the night and be treated. I wanna know if thats a puppy mill. Becuase allthough they treat them with care, they still sell them for profit.


Another question i have is... the pomeranian we have has been with us for 2 and a half years now, and she was bought from a man who posted in the local paper in the pets section "selling pomeranian puppys all 3 months old" We bought her for about 250 dollars, and shes EXTREMELY healthy. She has grown an outstanding coat, and very beautiful colors. What i want to know is, is that person considered a back yard breeder?

Im sorry for any inconveniances, im just very new to all of these terms and didnt know much about any of this until i registered today.

Lucky Rescue
August 4th, 2004, 11:12 PM
It doesn't matter if the dogs have velvet couches to lie on. Any place that breeds large numbers of unhealth tested and untitled dogs purely for profit is a puppy mill.

Anyone who breeds their own two (or more) dogs in their home, and the dogs are also not titled or tested are backyard breeders.

Reputable breeders breed ONLY champion dogs who are tested and cleared of any and all genetic defects, and they breed ONLY when they themselves want a dog for showing and only if they can improve the breed. They do not breed for profit, since the money spent on testing and titling dogs is considerable.

Reputable breeders have waiting lists (often for years) for their puppies and do not peddle them on the internet, newspapers or puppy stores. They have strict contracts with buyers, and will take back a dog at any time in it's life.

There are now 102,000 homeless dogs on Petfinder and MANY are purebreds who came from mills and backyard breeders who couldn't care less if dogs they bred end up dumped or dead.

It is unconscionable to be pumping out badly bred puppies for $$$$ when so many dogs are dying and left homeless every hour of the day.

Luba
August 4th, 2004, 11:20 PM
Guess you didn't read what I posted just above about ethical breeding.

Urahkai
August 5th, 2004, 09:38 AM
My family got their pomeranian from a backyard breeder ( i guess?) for 250 dollars in the pets section of the news paper. She is extremely healthy.

Lucky rescue and luba, i always knew never to buy from a pet store, becuase they get them from puppy mills. But I had a diffrent view on backyard breeders. A lot of them are bad, from what i learned from you guys today. But what about some backyard breeders who Arent registered, but breed the dogs with knowledge of what they are doing?

Im sorry im being so... hard headed. I just want to get EVERYTHING clear, just incase I ever make future purchases.

And even if my dog IS from a puppy mill, or a backyard breeder, I still love her to peices, and always will. That doesnt stop me from feeding her, comforting her, paying her vet bills, or her being my best friend. For the size of this little dog, its hard to beleive she can pack SO MUCH love, attention, and beauty. I love my little dog no matter were she came from.

By the way, here is a pic of the pomeranian we got from a back yard breeder. (This was before i knew what the word puppy mill was... i beleive i was 14?)

meggie1425
August 5th, 2004, 12:15 PM
I really admire everyone here who is against puppy mills and byb. I had heard of them before but had no idea thats were the puppys at pet stores came from. Ive never had a dog before but when i do get one i'll definitly adopt one from a humane society or dog rescue. Does anyone know were it is the other animals at the pets store comes from (such as the cats, the rabbits, birds etc.)

sammiec
August 5th, 2004, 12:18 PM
I really admire everyone here who is against puppy mills and byb. I had heard of them before but had no idea thats were the puppys at pet stores came from. Ive never had a dog before but when i do get one i'll definitly adopt one from a humane society or dog rescue. Does anyone know were it is the other animals at the pets store comes from (such as the cats, the rabbits, birds etc.)

I know that when large parrots, Macaugh (sp) are captured and wrapped in paper; they are then put into large bags and shipped, only a very few make it, that's why they are so expensive! I saw it on Discovery Channel a long while back, not sure if they've found a more humane way to mistreat these beautiful birds... :mad: :(

Urahkai
August 5th, 2004, 07:06 PM
If you have purchased a dog from Wizard of Claws in Florida, the following press release may be helpful to you


Media Release

CONTACTS:

MI K. KIM, ESQ. MARCY I. LAHART, ESQ
Feldman & Getz, LLP Marcy I. LaHart, PA.
155 NW 167th Street 711 Talladega Street
Penthouse West Palm Beach, FL 33405
(305) 770-0003 (561) 655-9537
mikim12345@yahoo.com milahart@bellsouth.net




December 12, 2003

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

PUPPY STORE SUED FOR MISLEADING CUSTOMERS, SELLING SICK PUPPIES

(Pembroke Pines, FL) Two South Florida attorneys have filed a lawsuit on behalf of customers that bought puppies from Wizard of Claws Inc., alleging that the Pembroke Pines pet store defrauds customers by intentionally misrepresenting the origin of the puppies sold, and by selling puppies that suffer from a wide array of health problems, including contagious diseases and genetic disorders.

Although Wizard of Claws has told customers that their puppies were imported from "reputable" breeders in South America, according to the complaint filed yesterday Broward County Circuit Court, in reality the puppies were obtained from large scale commercial breeding facilities in Missouri, commonly known as a "puppy mills", where animal welfare concerns are wholly secondary to profits.

Plaintiff Shannah Diaz of Miami purchased a Maltese puppy, �Prince,� from Wizard of Claws on September 6, 2002 for $950.00. Prince suffered from a congenital bleeding disorder, and died from internal hemorrhaging when he was less than a year old. After Prince died, Diaz began to suspect that Prince had come from a puppy mill, and asked a Wizard of Claws. "They assured me that my puppy had come from a reputable private breeder " Diaz .said, "but I later discovered that my puppy had been shipped to Florida from a commercial breeder in Missouri. " Wizard of Claws refused to reimburse any of Diaz's vet bills.

According to the Humane Society of the United States, the documented problems of puppy mills include overbreeding, inbreeding, minimal veterinary care, poor quality of food and shelter, lack of socialization with humans, overcrowded cages, and the killing of unwanted animals. To the unsuspecting consumer, this often means buying a puppy facing an array of immediate veterinary problems or harboring genetically borne diseases that may not be detected until much later.

Wizard of Claws, which claims to specialize in "tiny, tea-cup size puppies" sells puppies from its Pembroke Pines store and over the Internet. Plaintiff Mary Ibarra of San Antonio, Texas ordered an English Bulldog from Wizard of Claws, and knew that something was very wrong with her new puppy moments after "Gracie" arrived from at the San Antonio International Airport. Gracie, who had received a clean bill of health from Wizard of Claws veterinarian of choice Dr. Jan Bellows, walked on her wrists and she kept falling down on her back legs. Gracie was soon diagnosed as suffering from severe hip dysplasia with early onset arthritis. Gracie�s hip sockets are so bad that they do not have a cup to hold the ball of the joint, and she needs at least two surgeries. If the surgeries are not successful Gracie will have to be euthanized. Wizard of Claws refuses to assist with the costs of the surgeries, or to even reimburse the $1200.00 Ibarra paid for the pup.


The lawsuit, which alleges fraud, breach of warranty and multiple counts of violating the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act, asks that the plaintiffs be reimbursed for the purchase price of their puppies as well as the veterinary expenses incurred as a result of the purchase an unhealthy pup.


NOTE: Some of the victims of Wizard of Claws and other animal lovers will be demonstrating outside the store at 9101Taft Street, Pembroke Pines
tommorow, Saturday, December 13th starting at 11:00 am. Attorneys Mi Kim and Marcy LaHart will be present to answer any questions concerning the case.


(( It appears that alot of famous people bought from them too, and this famous nascar racer, jeff gordon? was supporting them. the one in the white with the tie is the owner.))

Luba
August 5th, 2004, 08:00 PM
Meggie the answer about the other animals in pet stores...they all come from mills! ALL OF THEM! Unprofessionally bred by byb/mills and people out to make money. :( Is very sad but true!

Lucky Rescue
August 5th, 2004, 08:23 PM
The Wizard of Claws is a very well known miller, and there are tons of complaints and lawsuits against them.

Anyone saying "They told me the puppies come from private breeders" should educate themselves first.

NO breeder who has the least shred of decency or concern for the puppies they breed would EVER put their puppies in a pet store. Why? Because they want to know exactly where the puppies are going, how they will be treated, what kind of home they will have, and be sure they won't be bred, sold or dumped.

As for birds, many countries have banned the capture and export of wild birds for the pet trade. If anyone wishes to buy a bird, make sure it's captive bred and handraised. Trapping and taking birds from the wild, clipping their wings and putting them in small cages is nothing short of barbaric.

dreaminrainbows
August 5th, 2004, 10:12 PM
:(
Luba...you had me in tears with that story, I'm just beside myself now.

I am so glad I didn't buy the puppy I saw in the pet store. :(

Luba
August 5th, 2004, 10:36 PM
I'm glad you didn't as well :D

It's easy to see them and think 'I can give them a better life'
and Yes you can give 'that' one a better life but you are making it harder on every other puppy they bring into this world.

Aside from the general puppy mill pet store mentality. They don't screen adoptive parents, they just hand over the pup to anyone with the money.

Lots of these pups end up dumped at shelters and humane societies because they have health/personality problems and nobody spoke to them about obedience training and specific breed problems.

Sorry to have put a sad mood on so many people with that story but it's required to get the point across.

rexdoggieowner
August 6th, 2004, 09:18 AM
hi everyone :)


i just wanna say that luba you are right in the sense that mills are HORRIBLE... oof course they are, but many people are not aware of them.. they do not think that puppy mills exist.. especially not from a local pet store. and you can't really blame them-- cause not everyone knows!! i'm not saying its right... but you have been involved with dogs a LONG time, and people that haven't do not know as much... how can we help them know about puppy mills-- what is the government doing about this ?!

that " puppy point of view" was breath taking... everyone should read it .. EVERYONE!!

but i agree with you luba.. your an expert on these things :)

Urahkai
August 6th, 2004, 09:49 AM
Hey luba, I was thinking about that people said on this forum about people not "knowing" about the existence of puppy mills. Well, my uncle works for the news paper as a photographer, and I was wondering if he could go take pictures of puppy mills ( theres one in melbourne, florida) and publish that story along with a small little paragraph advising readers of pet stores and the puppy mills.

sammiec
August 6th, 2004, 09:51 AM
That cold be potentially dangerous for your uncle; these type of people don't take kindly to others exploting their illegal actions. I would proceed with caution.

Luba
August 7th, 2004, 12:09 AM
.
Trust me I am no expert but I do share the information that I do know and try to educate people. Yes it's hard to not buy that puppy or kitten and give it a good loving home. I for one never go to pet stores for that very reason, it's just too hard. BUT in my mind I know that there are so many that suffer needlessly.

I"d say people know about puppy mills in general, well atleast a lot of people do and they turn a blind eye to it....because they feel they are doing good by buying that 'one' pet.

There are lots of organizations which go undercover into mills, many humane societies, rescues and spca, peta etc... have posted on the net hundreds of pictures and videos of puppy mills.

However, it never hurts to spread the word more through the media. Pictures are very telling!! They are what people remember.

I bet there is more then one mill in Australia and Florida...for every one that you think there is there are probably atleast a dozen more. :(

rexdoggieowner
August 9th, 2004, 12:24 AM
what can i do to help stop puppy mills... instead of telling people that they exist... or not buying pets from pet stores?!

Luba
August 9th, 2004, 02:52 PM
Just keep spreading the word.

Don't buy ANYTHING from a pet store that sells animals! Educate people, just though discussion. Find petitions on line, volunteer with rescues to do 'transports' for dogs they are pulling from puppy mills to get them to vets or foster homes. Volunteer to be a foster parent to a dog rescued from a mill.

If you know of ANY mill type activity or advertisement follow up on it with complaints to your local humane society/ spca. Document it all in writing.

Words are worth a LOT :D