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Couple loves cloned best friend

badger
February 6th, 2009, 05:27 PM
All I can say is, keep those prices in the stratosphere. I'd like to ask the Dalai Lama about cloning, he'd probably laugh his head off.

They do sound like a lovely couple.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/02/06/cloned.puppy/index.html

Dekka
February 6th, 2009, 09:16 PM
I think its dumb and cruel. Dumb because so much of an animal's personality comes from his/her experiences. Heck even markings won't be identical on cloned animals (if they have markings)

Cruel because the dog will be guaranteed to age before its time. If you take a cell from a 9 year old dog to use that DNA to create a new dog then the new dog will be starting off with cells that think they are 9 years old (the telomeres are shortened every time a cell divides.. this is one of the major factors in aging) This is why cloned animals don't live very long.. why they have health problems/

Why bring an animal into this world that is doomed to a foreshortened life. Why not just treasure the memories and get a new dog (heck go to a rescue and save one)

TeriM
February 6th, 2009, 10:16 PM
:eek: I'm really not sure what I think about all of this :shrug:.:shrug: I do definately agree that dogs are more a product of their environments then cloning seems to give credit to. For example they have stated the pup is a singleton birth so that alone can/will affect many of the development stages. That will likely be minimized in this particular case due to the large amount of animals that the pup lives with but in many other cases it can be very problematic.

Dracko
February 6th, 2009, 11:53 PM
I have to give what is probably a very unpopular response here.

In my past I would have said things like this were selfish but even the thought of losing my Mochie is impossible to think about. I am more attached to her than any human even.

I've had to put down 2 senior cats who I had for almost 20 years and I adored but when it comes Mochie's time I don't know that I can bare it.

I'm all for adopting animals that need a home (all 6 of mine are rescues as were my older 2 that are no longer with me) but I have to tell you that if I were given the chance I would clone Mochie. There is something very specials about her that makes her the perfect cat for me. If I could have a 2nd chance to experience that I would do it. :o

Dekka
February 7th, 2009, 03:14 PM
but I have to tell you that if I were given the chance I would clone Mochie. There is something very specials about her that makes her the perfect cat for me. If I could have a 2nd chance to experience that I would do it. :o


How could you do that to an animal? Articles where people have cloned animals say the personality is NOT the same. You are in all intents an purposes knowingly creating an animal that will have a shorter life span and health issues. If you truely loved your friend.. how could you do that to them?

I can bring myself to tears just thinking about life after Dekka (and she is only 4) I do get how it would be nice to think I could always have her with me. But a clone would not be her.. just eerily similar. And if I did fall in love with that dog how could I wish upon her a short and sickly life?

krdahmer
February 7th, 2009, 04:16 PM
I do think that this is ridiculous and cruel.... although scientifically cool. You may get an animal that looks like the one you've lost, but it is indeed nothing like the one you've lost, the one gone had a soul and unique personality that cannot be replicated by science in a petrie dish!

Love4himies
February 7th, 2009, 05:22 PM
I don't know all the science behind cloning, but I, like dracko, would love to have cloned my Snowball. He was special to me and my heart breaks everytime I think of him.

Dekka: I feel the same way about breeding as you do about cloning. How can somebody allow their dog to breed when there are dogs that are being euthanised because they can't find homes.

Just my :2cents:

Dekka
February 7th, 2009, 06:03 PM
But with cloning you CAN'T have a healthy clone. Its just not possible if the DNA used for cloning was from a middle aged to older dog. You can breed healthy dogs.

How would you feel if I said I was going to produce dogs who would all live very shortened lives and get old age sicknesses early in life?

I will explain. My education is in DNA forensics and genetics...
A telomere is a region of repetitive DNA at the end of chromosomes, which protects the end of the chromosome from destruction. Its name is derived from the Greek nouns telos (τἐλος) "end" and merοs (μέρος, root: μερεσ-) "part".

every time a cell divides a little piece of the telomere is lost. We (and dogs and cats and mice etc) have long telomeres when we are young. By the time we are old these are very short. If cells with no telomeres try dividing they actually loose the ends of the chromosomes themselves. (bad bad news for the organism)

The telomerase shortening mechanism normally limits cells to a fixed number of divisions, and animal studies suggest that this is responsible for aging on the cellular level and sets a limit on lifespans. Telomeres protect a cell's chromosomes from fusing with each other or rearranging - abnormalities which can lead to cancer - and so cells are normally destroyed when their telomeres are consumed. Biologists speculate that this programmed death of potentially damaged cells reduces the likelihood of cancer but makes aging (and thus death) inevitable. Most cancers are the result of "immortal" cells which have ways of evading this programmed destruction.[1]

When you take the DNA from an older dog, say 10 years old, and use it to clone a new dog you are essentially creating a dog that's DNA thinks it is 10 when it is born. On the outside you have a normal puppy. But this puppy is at a high risk of cancer and other age factored DNA related issues. This is why clones live such shortened lives.

Now if you were to take the DNA from a young dog (say under 2) then this isn't as large an issue. But people don't tend to think that way. Most of the DNA gathered from cloning is taken from sick or elderly animals.

For people who are so against breeding.. which at least when done properly brings into the world healthy dogs who barring accident or freak occurance, will be able to live out long and normal lives.. I can't believe you would be all for producing a life that is doomed to be short and full of suffering.

(and I am not going to get into the whole don't breed till every dog has a home debate.. that has been hashed out on other threads)

Love4himies
February 7th, 2009, 06:24 PM
Like I said before, I don't know anything about cloning, but would think that the personalities would be quite similar due to the genetics. If you take twins that have been separated at birth and adopted to very different families at birth, they end up being very similar in adulthood. That would be due to genetics.

What about personality traits of certain breeds? That has to be genetic as they have very different life experiences?

Dekka
February 7th, 2009, 06:27 PM
Like I said before, I don't know anything about cloning, but would think that the personalities would be quite similar due to the genetics. If you take twins that have been separated at birth and adopted to very different families at birth, they end up being very similar in adulthood. That would be due to genetics.

What about personality traits of certain breeds? That has to be genetic as they have very different life experiences?

That is why I posted about cloning. AND why it would be mean. They are similar. But not the same. Do you know any twins (identical ones)? They are similar but each are their own people. Clones would be like that too. And with pets it means they won't necessarily even have the same markings.

Love4himies
February 7th, 2009, 06:35 PM
Well, maybe it is very selfish of the owners to clone. I would hate to see any animal brought into the world that was doomed to have poor health.