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vet says there isnt much that can be done.

dhassay
January 8th, 2009, 04:41 PM
our malamute mystic is 12-13 years old. 6 days ago he laid down and hasnt gotten up since then. its like his front legs are paralyzed. everything about him is great. i have to carry him and he is heavy, outside to go to the bathroom. i just have to lay him down, clean him up and take him back in. we have him on pain killers that help alot.
we took him to our vet today and she and a assistant held him up with towels to see if he could stand or put weight on his front legs. she moved his head side to side/ up and down but he didnt fight it or have any pain. vet was hoping for a pinched nerve etc. she believes its a neurological problem either in the brain or spine. she gave him a shot of pregnasone (sp?) and several weeks worth of pregnesone pills.
he stopped eating normal dog food two days ago but still loves bones and drinking water. we will try out some canned food and any other options to get him to eat. we will try to keep him as comfortable as we can until the day comes that HE says no more. sad day for my wife and I. he is a wonderful dog. i figure alot of people here can understand what we are going through.

14+kitties
January 8th, 2009, 04:47 PM
Making that decision is never easy. :sad: There comes a time when we have to decide if we are keeping our pals alive for their sake or ours. My heart is bleeding for you at this difficult time. It sounds like you have a firm hold on things.
Here is a poem which may help you make the final decision when you need to. It is one that has given me much comfort. :grouphug:

MAY I GO

by Susan A. Jackson

May I go now?
Do you think the time is right?
May I say goodbye to pain filled days
and endless lonely nights?

I've lived my life and done my best,
an example tried to be.
So can I take that step beyond
and set my spirit free?

I didn't want to go at first,
I fought with all my might.
But something seems to draw me now
to a warm and loving light.

I want to go. I really do.
It's difficult to stay.
But I will try as best I can
to live just one more day.

To give you time to care for me
and share your love and fears.
I know you're sad and afraid,
because I see your tears.

I'll not be far, I promise that,
and hope you'll always know
that my spirit will be close to you
wherever you may go.

Thank you so for loving me.
You know I love you, too.
That's why it's hard to say goodbye
and end this life with you.

So hold me now just one more time
and let me hear you say,
because you care so much for me,
you'll let me go today.

Dedicated to everyone who has ever had to put down a beloved dog.

Author: Susan A. Jackson

AmericanBullMom
January 8th, 2009, 04:47 PM
I'm so very sorry that you are going through this. And I hope that a miracle comes your way!
I just wanted to say that with him being on the Prednisone you'll want to take him out to go potty about twice as often, as it makes them have to pee a lot more.
Just be sure that your beloved pet is still happy and comfortable... and that he continues to not be in any pain.
I hope that things improve for him! I'll keep you in my :pray:!
:grouphug::grouphug: To you and your wife, I know this is such a hard thing to go through. keep us updated!!

JanM
January 8th, 2009, 05:03 PM
My prayers are with you - it's never easy but you know you are doing the best possible for your friend.

BusterBoo
January 8th, 2009, 05:36 PM
:pray: I am so sorry to hear Mystic is not doing well.....Keep him comfortable and pain free, he will let you know if he needs to run to the Bridge. It's never easy to say goodbye....

Please let us know how he (and you) are doing....Can you post a picture of him? :pray:

cpietra16
January 8th, 2009, 07:18 PM
I'm so sorry to hear about Mystic....It's always so sad to lose a loved pet. You did so much for him already. Just know that you have done a remarkable job with Mystic, when you consider that an average life span for malamutes is 12-14 years.

dhassay
January 9th, 2009, 01:32 PM
thanks for the kind thoughts and prayers. at least he is still eating and drinking. he doesnt seem to urinate very often. maybe with the prednisone he will go more often. we are giving him tremadil sp? two pills every 8 hours or so for pain. yesterday he seemed to be in more pain. breathing heavy and a little panting but he calmed down after a while. it seems to hurt him more when i pick him up to go outside. i dont want to hurt him but he is a heavy dog and doesnt really have the strength to help me while lifting him. maybe i can figure out some kind of stretcher to help carry him.
luckily he still seems happy and barks with the other dogs. its hard to watch him lay there not able to get up so we try to sit with him and pet him as much as we can. i will try to get a picture posted cause he is a great looking dog. dont know if this will go on for days or weeks or what. we will just continue doing whatever we can for him until that day comes.
we did all of this about 5 years ago with my beagle shasta, my hound dog. i even named my recording studio after her. so hard to lose a pet.

kandy
January 9th, 2009, 01:37 PM
I am so sorry you are going through this. It's never easy. :sad::grouphug:

If it's only the front end that's paralyzed, you can use a sling specially made for lifting dogs, or you can use a bath towel as a sling. I've found that using a sling gives you a bit more leverage and balance.

hazelrunpack
January 9th, 2009, 03:01 PM
It's so hard when they're ill. And we never have enough time with them. :grouphug:

How is Mystic doing today, dhassey? Is the pred helping at all? :fingerscr

dhassay
January 9th, 2009, 03:13 PM
unfortunately i work in downtown houston so no one is home during day but the pets. when i left today i gave him the pred and the pain killers. should be home in 2-3 hours to check on him. hopefully he will have some relief. at least today is friday so we have the weekend to spend with him.

i will try to use towels to hold him up the next time we move him to the yard.

thanks again for the thoughts and prayers. i will keep ya posted

hazelrunpack
January 9th, 2009, 03:41 PM
Beach towels often work best--they're longer :thumbs up

:goodvibes: for all of you

dhassay
January 9th, 2009, 06:54 PM
he was really breathing hard when i got home but otherwise doing ok. i still think he should be urinating more. bladder being uncomfortable might be causing the breathing. he is drinking alot of water. is there a way to get a dog to pee? i gave him two more tremidils sp? when i moved him outside he was much more cofortable than yesterday. didnt seem to hurt him much. he peed a little bit but nothing like the usual race horse stream. i rubbed him really good he even got excited enough to start barking with another one of our dogs. is was a nice day so i filmed him for a while with the camcorder. its dark now and my wife is home so its time to bring him back in, feed him and have time together with him. thanks for listening to me. it helps

kandy
January 9th, 2009, 06:58 PM
He could be avoiding peeing if it's uncomfortable for him, just like if you know something is going to hurt - you try to avoid doing that. Not that the act of urinating hurts, but maybe the posture that he stands in while peeing does cause pain. Try giving him some ice cubes - when Hazel had surgery and didn't pee for almost 48 hours - that was the thing that got her to go. :)

Longblades
January 9th, 2009, 08:28 PM
I'm just wondering, did your Vet say what the problem was? I don't want to upset the apple cart or try to change your mind. But some of what you have described sounds familiar. Did the Vet mention vestibular disease?

You can find out a lot about it on the internet. Here is one link:

http://members.tripod.com/dachshealth/canine_vestibular_disease.htm

My sister's old dog had the classic symptoms noted in the link for about 6 hours but then he acted like your dog. That was over two years ago when he was 14. He's 16 and a half now.

dhassay
January 10th, 2009, 12:08 PM
doing ok today. as soon as i put him outside he peed, finally. unfortunately he has not stood up since this started. he can only lay down. i pick him up to move him from inside to outside but otherwise he is always laying down. still eating good too.

the vet really didnt say much. she said neurological, maybe spine or brain. we dont have the money to go further with any testing. she didnt think it would do any good anyway.

scooter1
January 10th, 2009, 04:32 PM
I had to say goodbye to my buddy just a month ago, he was fifteen.
he was eating. drinking and other than something wrong with him that
was causing seizures he was fine. I tried what I could but in the end
he had a seizure that he did not come out of. They get old early and
they have to go. It really sucks but sometimes there is nothing you can
do. I am still missing him, there are very lonely moments where he filled
the space. In the time you have left find and cherish those moments.

dhassay
January 11th, 2009, 05:27 PM
hey scooter1, sorry that you lost your buddy last month. i miss my hound dog often and its been about 5 years. we have him here in the living room with us. we spend as much time as we can with him, cooking him special meals. he even lets us know now when he needs to urinate. we wife is feeding him some yogurt right now and he is loving it. he eats while laying down somehow. as least he hasnt gone downhill.

dhassay
January 11th, 2009, 07:52 PM
i have read alot about this vestibular disease. amazing stories that the dogs can seem like mystic, unable to stand and then a few weeks or a month later the dog starts walking again.
mystic has had very bad ear infections for years. both of his ears in the past few years have ballooned out. it would last about a week. they were huge and filled with something. basically his ears went from flaps to large, almost ball like. vet said they will go down by themselves which they did, but both of his ears are rigid with pockets of really tough masses. hard to explain but his ears flaps have never been the same. i have a bottle of otomax leftover so today i started to put a few drops in his ears. dont think it can hurt him and if there is any possibility of a inner/middle ear infection maybe this would help. i left a message for the vet to see what she thinks about this vestibular disease. and there is nothing wrong with having hope.

bds1960to
January 12th, 2009, 02:58 PM
I was in a similar, albeit not identical, position Dec. 2-3. My 18-year-old cat had slowly been losing weight in stages for mysterious reasons over two years. In very late November, the weight drop started again and she was now down to really nothing, but still purring, happy to see me, etc.

On Nov. 29, she started turning her nose up at water and wouldn't drink it no matter what I did. On Dec. 2, she greeted me with her usual happy meow and purring when I came home from work. But she did not touch her dinner.
By 7 pm, she developed a limp in one hind quarter. By mid-evening, it was a full blown 4-legged stagger. I gave her some milk (yes, I know about milk) just to get some liquid into her. She lapped it up fast. I stayed up until 11 pm and went to bed knowing the next morning we'd be making a last trip to the vet. My expectation was confirmed at about 3 a.m. when a sound from the kitchen woke me. She was lying on her side, sprawled out and not even trying to get up, or even raise her head. She must have fallen while getting in or out of her box. She was now too weak to squat in her box. She just fell over. I held her up so she could toilet. She would stagger over to a spot in the dining room and collapse, trying to get up occasionally to head back to her box or the dish of milk in the kitchen. But she had no musculature left and had a hard time shifting her hind quarters under her to stand.

There was no question that it was time to let her go. She was in such distress that it wasn't fair to keep her going. And I couldn't possibly leave her alone in the apartment safely.

If I'd seen an animal in the wild in that kind of distress, I hope I'd have the decency to shoot it.

Malahoot
January 12th, 2009, 02:59 PM
i have read alot about this vestibular disease. amazing stories that the dogs can seem like mystic, unable to stand and then a few weeks or a month later the dog starts walking again.
mystic has had very bad ear infections for years. both of his ears in the past few years have ballooned out. it would last about a week. they were huge and filled with something. basically his ears went from flaps to large, almost ball like. vet said they will go down by themselves which they did, but both of his ears are rigid with pockets of really tough masses. hard to explain but his ears flaps have never been the same. i have a bottle of otomax leftover so today i started to put a few drops in his ears. dont think it can hurt him and if there is any possibility of a inner/middle ear infection maybe this would help. i left a message for the vet to see what she thinks about this vestibular disease. and there is nothing wrong with having hope.


In Malamutes vestibular issue symptoms are walking in circles, unbalanced, falling over...they don't just lose front leg function. Did you have a urine sample done? (it's fairly cheap!)...the panting symptom, having had a diabetic Mal makes me wonder if that may be part of the problem. I'm stumped on the loss of mobility but generally long backed malamutes end up with degenerative disk issues in old age.

dhassay
January 13th, 2009, 09:52 AM
bds1960to - sorry you had to go through that. it is very painful i know. i talked to the vet yesterday and she didnt think this was the vestibular disease either. i think he is going downhill. he has started to tremble while breathing really hard and fast. luckily the medicine calms him down but i am not the type to let him suffer. we are watching him very close and love having this time with him. you dont want to do anything too soon but more importantly i dont want to do something too late.
I have a picture of our boy mystic. does this site allow pictures to be uploaded? if not, how can i let everyone see it?

malahoot- he has had back problems for a long time. he kinda twisted his lower back to one side when he walked. we have had him on rymadil for a while. the vet didnt take a urine sample. she knows we are broke and didnt seem to think anything could be done. glad to hear you love malamutes. wonderful dogs. he has always been the nicest dog. he gets along with all of our cats too.

dhassay
January 13th, 2009, 09:54 AM
found out where to post to picture. hope this works.

hazelrunpack
January 13th, 2009, 10:40 AM
He's sure a grand old boy, dhassey. I'm sorry to hear that he seems to be declining again. :grouphug: Give him a kissie in that special spot between the eyes for me? :cloud9:

Malahoot
January 13th, 2009, 11:45 AM
Ah what a handsome old man! Is he taking Rymadil now with Tramadol? (and if so does the vet know that???? I can't recall if they can be taken together) I'm going to copy some info below that I wrote for someone else but possibly you might find some of it useful:

__________________________________________________ _____

I foster old malamutes :) Blind / gimpy / deaf/ pallitive care medical issues

Here is a list of info that helps lots:

-Keep feet hair trimmed to avoid slipping. Rub an ointment into the pads on at least a weekly basis to keep them from drying out which contributes to slipping.

-Give them high quality glucosamine HCI not the cheap sulfate (which is not easily absorbed and needs 10 x as much for any results. Give Glucosamine HCI twice a day because it is water soluble and gone in about 4 hrs via urine. I simply sprinkle it in the soaked kibble.

-Talk to a compounding pharmacy regarding old age supplements as they can whip up a batch of exactly what you need for the dog. (like a glucosamine / chondroitin/ msm mixture) this is often much more economical and convenient than even buying bottles yourself.

-Have a routine. Routine is GOOD lol!

-Keep even the oldest of them active even if just a short walk a day helps.

-Towels and sheets are great helpers for old mals having issues with stairs. Better yet replace small sections of stairs with no slip ramps.

-Signs of pain include the obvious...whining, yelping/crying, loss of appetite, increased sleeping, decreased sleeping, inability to settle, irritability, loss of interest/interaction with their surroundings. Sublte things: increased neediness, increasing confusion/dementia, night time howling, night time restlessness, pacing, standing in corners staring off into space, eating weird objects, sudden unexplained biting, snarling, growling, snapping. Falling, tripping, getting stuck in odd places, increased and obsessive thirst, destructive behavior, self mutilation, running away/hiding/cowering/acting afraid.

-One of the kindest things you can do for an old friend is to provide them good pain control. We as humans have needs for sore muscles, backs, hips, arthritis....so do our old Malamutes.

-Comfy thick beds

-High quality foods. You are what you eat!

-Digestive enzymes also help the oldies absorb more nutrients from food

-for mental stimulation try playing laser pointer with them.

-swimming is excellent for regaining strength in legs without the impact stress other activities have.

Quality of life: That's a biggy and different for all of them. For the most part I find the oldies do normally sleep a lot. In between snoozing they have 10 minute bouts of acting like a teen then back to snoozing :) Yes a major indicator is FOOD...if they are still coming for treats and telling you it's past feeding time you are still in good shape. If they don't want to eat that's never a good sign for a Mal at any age. Look at your Mal...do they still have some sparkle in their eye? Do they still seem to have more good days than bad? It's when the bad days start to outweigh the good that one needs to watch & think about quality of life questions.

As they age so does their digestive system and some tend not to absorb nutrients from food as well as they once did which is why I mentioned high quality food plus digestive enzymes.

One of the oldest mal I've had here missed her 15th birthday by a month. She was standard size tho and the larger they are the shorter the lifespan seems unfortunately. Mals are better off with the least amount of extra weight at his age. Many people allow their mals to get fat in old age which is so very hard on them to carry those extra pounds around. When they become a lot less active yes they do lose muscle mass which can account for much weight loss.

I have one Mal x here now that is ANCIENT...I'm sure he is at least 15+ years old. When he came to me the shelter said they figured he had 4-6 mths. He had an ulcerated tumor in his right paw, a large mass on his left hip, an anal prolaspe someone had never fixed plus being real crippled up. That was nearly 2 years ago. He has very limited mobility in his rear end, takes a good long while to get up at times, leaks like crazy...but he takes pain meds 2 x a day, gets his arthritis supplements and just keeps on going lol! Just when I think it is nearing time to let him go he shows me different. They can go on quite happily with good quality of life for a long while even tho they are old.

When a Mal is ready to leave this world there is no stopping them....they let you know in no uncertain terms that it's time. Those that I have had to let go went from leading a happy quality of life to definitely leaving this world in like less than 24hrs. Just BANG I'm outta here, I'm not eating anymore, no I'm not getting up anymore, please let me go in peace my way. Fortunately we are owners of one of the most animated, easy to read, tell it like it is breeds.

Like old people they sometimes start to get dementia plus lose bladder/bowel control. They don't actually seem to realize they pooped :)
http://www.jjdiapers.ca makes a Mal-sized diaper (it's the largest size plus they will custom make them) , they fit well and are quite cheap. I also use human disposable bed pads for Mals to lay on if they are losing control. They are about 3 foot x 3 foot so good size and not very expensive either.

Straining to get up....Is he on any pain control meds? Where he likes to lay around is the floor slippery at all? Rubber backed mats & runners help if they are prone to lying in a slippery area like laminate. With the loss of poops on rising it sounds like he is starting to have some type of degenerative back issues (this is common in old Mals that are larger / longer backed). Are you giving him any supplements like glucosamine? The better he "feels" the nicer he will be. If he is feeling crummy he will show it by being a grumpy boy.

Malamutes are pretty notorious for not always getting along with other dogs very well and can be worse when they do not feel good. At my place I've had up to 10 Malamutes at one time (my 2 plus fosters) For the last 3-4 years I've lived with a min of 5 old farts...most of which HATE one another. I have a couple very comfy kennel runs (good insulated dog houses / padded anti-fatigue floors / covered top & sides) I juggle them between kennels / house. In the house I have gates up so they can all live in peace.

dhassay
January 13th, 2009, 12:23 PM
wow, thats alot of great info about malamutes. we took him off the rymadil for two days then started the tremadol. 2-3 pills every 8 hours. we have gone more than 8 hours and it shows. he starts to tremble, pant and breath hard and fast. we will get some of the good glu hci tonight. thanks again.

BusterBoo
January 13th, 2009, 05:04 PM
What a beautiful face....:lovestruck:

My :pray: are going your way......hope you have more happy days with your Mystic :grouphug:

BenMax
January 13th, 2009, 05:07 PM
What a beauty.

Many thoughts your way. Luv him up.

doggy lover
January 13th, 2009, 05:33 PM
Sorry to hear about your dog he looks like a beautiful soul. I lost one of my friends to bone cancer 5 years ago on Jan 10. It just came down to quality of life for him.They said they could try to amputate his front leg at the shoulder but he was 9 and a half and he was starting to get weak in the back legs already. As most big dogs life span is about 10 and the vet said that cancer could be somewhere else and that he probably would have problems getting up our stairs we decided it was time to let him go. I had a friend that her dog lost her use of her back legs at age 13 and she helped her with a towel to get around but after about a week she decided to have her put to sleep as well. Its a hard thing to do but its harder to see them unable to walk or run. I know my dog was in pain even with the meds and I couldn't stand to see him this way. He just went peacefully to sleep.
I hope you find a some way to make your dog well again, but if there is nothing else you can do, you will know when its time to say goodbye. My thoughts are with you

ScottieDog
January 13th, 2009, 07:06 PM
Mystic is very handsome. He has deep, loving eyes. Cherish your time together. Whatever the outcome, it is never enough time. I will keep you in my thoughts.

It is rough. I lost a beloved dog last fall. I understand what you mean about not doing something too soon, or too late. I hope that Mystic can let you know when he feels it is time. You truly can see it in their eyes. They live and love for us. Sometimes we have to help them pass. It is our ultimate gift of love for them.

Malahoot
January 13th, 2009, 08:18 PM
Was just thinking about your boy...I hope he is still doing well today.

The real positive thing is that he is still interested in food! :thumbs up Food is a tell all indicator for how most Mals are feeling or if they are giving up. If they won't eat even their fav foods for an extended period, it's pretty much as bad as it gets for a Mal.

I wanted to mention that what we do to move immobile Mals with 2 persons is use a large bed sheet (vs a blanket which is bulkier to hold onto) folded in half lengthwise so it's the width from behind front legs to in front of back legs. We each then carry our own side and walk them (or carry them) together. I like this method as it is fairly easy to get the sheet under them while they are laying down without causing too much fuss.

If I am alone (and I am just a 125# gal with huge old Mals lol) I use large towels (or single small sheets) one just behind the front legs, other just infront of the rear legs. I can use the this method alone on a mal with limited mobility in front or back but I dont think I could do it if they could not support a bit of their own weight.

Most of the time if supported as explained than can actually do their "business" standing up too (ya gotta adjust the rear of towel or sheet on the male though to give access :laughing:)

In a real pinch I have also been able to get a half sheet of light plywood under them and drag them slowly as not to freak them out...or shimmy them into the bottom half of a big crate. I have one blind Mal here now that is afraid to come in the house due to the old fart Mal ramp / deck but he will allow me to get him in a crate, push him very noisily over the cement / up the ramp and then accross the deck to get inside (GO FIGURE!)

:fingerscr

dhassay
January 13th, 2009, 09:44 PM
when i got home tonight he was asleep and seemed comfortable. i picked him up and took him outside and he peed. when i brought him in he started the hard breathing and panting. we gave him the 100mg of the tramadol and two hours later another 50mg. it just doesnt seem to be working. he is really breathing fast and hard for hours now. are we at the max dose of the tramadol? i read that panting is a side effect of the drug so i dont know what to think. he is trembling alot too. we might be getting close to that time. hopefully he will calm down tonight and get some sleep and we will look at this again tomorrow. he is still eating well and drinking lots. i want to assure everyone that we will show our greatest love to him by doing the right thing when its time. sooooooo hard.

but isnt he a great looking boy?

zomo
January 13th, 2009, 10:28 PM
He is beautiful! Prayers for him and your family.

14+kitties
January 13th, 2009, 10:29 PM
Mystic is a very handsome boy. :cloud9:
I know how hard it is to make that decision. I know you will do the right thing. :grouphug:

Malahoot
January 13th, 2009, 11:02 PM
when i got home tonight he was asleep and seemed comfortable. i picked him up and took him outside and he peed. when i brought him in he started the hard breathing and panting. we gave him the 100mg of the tramadol and two hours later another 50mg. it just doesnt seem to be working. he is really breathing fast and hard for hours now. are we at the max dose of the tramadol? i read that panting is a side effect of the drug so i dont know what to think. he is trembling alot too. we might be getting close to that time. hopefully he will calm down tonight and get some sleep and we will look at this again tomorrow. he is still eating well and drinking lots. i want to assure everyone that we will show our greatest love to him by doing the right thing when its time. sooooooo hard.

but isnt he a great looking boy?


Max dose would depend on weight... you'd have to check that.
It's quite normal, in the end of life for them to pant lots and drink lots. I have found it is worse in that period between giving a dose of pain meds and the meds kicking in....then they eventually rest peacefully again. It's also stressful for them to be moved while oh so wanting to do it for themselves.

I feel for you and your family. I had my diabetic old gal go down on me just this way (but her rear end) back in Sept.... since she was diabetic tho plus had ulcerated mammary cancer and no longer eating or walking I had to let her go after just a couple days. Like you tho I hung in there with her as long as she had the will.....it's a VERY hard time. We will keep all the Malamute paws here crossed for you and your good buddy.

dhassay
January 14th, 2009, 10:03 AM
mystic slept all night and was calm when i checked on him at 1:00am and when i got up at 6:30am. he seems to be getting real weak but i expect that since he hasnt had any exercise in a while. he weighs about 65 pounds. i gave him 100mg of the tramadol and then another 50mg an hour later. hopefully he wont be panting so hard when i get home tonight. its hard going to work all day and leaving him there. but he has lots of animals to keep him company. everyone here has really helped me and my wife get through this. thanks to all.

Malahoot
January 14th, 2009, 04:56 PM
If he will allow it you can do massage all over plus move his legs (swimming like ) to help keep him from losing mass.

dhassay
January 14th, 2009, 06:36 PM
i have been giving him good rub downs. he was really calm late last night and when i came home today. then the same thing- took him out and after carrying him back in he has started the heavy breathing, panting and whining some. i guess the pain killers just dont last until i get home. or maybe its just the commotion once i get home. otherwise doing ok.

angeldogs
January 14th, 2009, 06:39 PM
Mystic is a handome boy.with a sweet old face.

Malahoot
January 18th, 2009, 08:36 PM
I'm afraid to ask but also still hopeful!....how are things going?

bds1960to
January 18th, 2009, 09:08 PM
Forgive me for asking this question, especially if you've given an indication in a post and I've just missed it.

I appreciate that you assured everyone you'd do right by mystic and put him out of his misery "when the time comes". Exactly what is it you're waiting for? You've got pain, laboured breathing, weakness, immobility and so much more. You seem clear that this is terminal. How much more are you going to put him through, and for what purpose? I don't understand what benefit there is for him to have his state prolonged.

Malahoot
January 18th, 2009, 09:28 PM
:censored: Ummm... wow.

dhassay & family.... remember it takes all kinds and there are some people in this world unfortunately that make it go around even tho we could easily do without the judgements.

Trying your best to make sure one is NOT making mistakes or incorrect judgements with our animal friends is a very hard call. Quite often old Malamutes can go from walking to immobile then to walking perfectly fine again in a week or so because they simply needed that time to recover from inflammation/pinch nerve/whatever. Malamutes as light in weight as yours can live to 15+ years. Many of them will be on pain meds for bad backs / arthritis pain for MANY MANY YEARS...COMFORTABLY! I see nothing wrong with giving your buddy some extra time to try and get his feet back under him.

Only YOU know your pet best & all that is involved with that pets quality of life...so ignore those who feel the need to be critical.

lUvMyLaB<3
January 18th, 2009, 10:28 PM
I agree with you malahoot, no one knows that dog as well as they do. them and only them know when his quality of life is too poor to continue, just because he is not moving right now does not mean the end has come. They are giving him everything so they can have a shot at him recovering! Good luck to you guys and your very beautiful dog! I hope he picks up soon!! He sounds like he is happy and cozy, you are doing all the right things!

bds1960to
January 18th, 2009, 10:59 PM
I said specifically in my question post that I understood the situation to be terminal. The thread title is "nothing can be done" and the owners have said they will be putting him out of his misery at the right time. If that's not the case now, then correcting me rather than attacking me would have been an appropriate response. Or better yet, since the question wasn't addressed to either of you, perhaps you should have kept your opinions on another poster's question to yourselves rather than using this thread to try to pick a fight or criticize someone. Shame on you.

Love4himies
January 19th, 2009, 08:21 AM
I have to agree with bds1960to, if there is NOTHING more that can be done and the dog is in pain, then it is time to let your beloved pet pass peacefully. The most selfless, which is also the hardest is to let them go.

My heart goes out to you dhassay :grouphug:, I can see you love your dog like a child.

dhassay
January 19th, 2009, 11:40 AM
what a way to start my monday morning. i have had several dogs put down due to old age or heath problems. i feel that as long as he is eating/drinking and has that "look" in his eye that he still wants to be here then i will do everything i can to make him comfortable. i know there are people out there that think that as soon as a animal is terminal that it is time to put them down. I DISAGREE.
when he starts showing the signs of pain i give him the pain killers and it passes.
Alot of people believe that a dog will tell you when he or she is ready to go and i believe this. my 15 year old beagle was on IV fluids that i administered plus pain killers. one day she had a look in her eye and in her behavior that said she was done so we put her down.
I dont care if i have to pick him up and lay him down in the yard to go to the bathroom for days, weeks or months. there is no inconvenience for me to take care of my pet. sure it is a very hard job physically and emotionally but as long as he lifts his head and give me that smile when i walk in the door i will continue caring for him. I am in constant communication with my vet who has been my vet for over 10 years. I trust what she says, I trust what my heart says, and i trust that my dog will tell me when its time.


"...Portion deleted by Admin"

BenMax
January 19th, 2009, 12:23 PM
I can safely say that EVERYONE feels for you and your situation. I do not think that anyone was trying to judge you nor your situation.

It is a difficult time for you I can appreciate. I think we have all been there at one time or another.

Dogs cannot tell you when they are uncomfortable or in pain. Malamutes have a very high pain threshold so it may be difficult to know exactly what is going on with him. Indeed it is up to you to decide when it is the right time.

I think I can let you know that it is very important that the dogs remains hydrated and his blood is freely flowing. I only say this because if this is not the case when it does come time, a simple needle will not work effectively. I do not want to get into detail - but please take it from someone who has seen ALOT.

I wish your dog well as well as you. We do have compassion here and everyone is just trying to help you to be at peace.

Best to you and your gorgeous pup.

dhassay
January 19th, 2009, 01:37 PM
thanks benmax. i do understand what was trying to be said but my wife is also reading these posts about him and the way that one post was worded sucked and will upset my wife.

"How much more are you going to put him through, and for what purpose?"

:censored:

I do believe there could of been a much better way to word that sentence. and that is why i said screw you to that person.

dhassay
January 19th, 2009, 01:47 PM
here is something i found on the internet. it answers the question, when do i put my dog down? I still feel that i am doing the right thing.




There's no Idiot's Guide for this question, no handbook. The many points of view are strongly held. One vet I know says a dog should be euthanized "when it can no longer live the life of a dog—and only the owner knows when that really is." A breeder says she puts her dogs down when "their suffering exceeds their ability to take pleasure in life." A trainer I respect believes her dog should live as long as it can eat.

Another friend and dog lover says she always knows when it's time: "when the soul goes out of their eyes."

I'm not among those who believe dogs have souls, but I know what she means. There is a certain visceral "dogness" about dogs, an interest in people, food, squirrels, passing trucks—whatever—that's part of their individual spirits. When that disappears, it does seem the "soul" of the dog is gone.

BenMax
January 19th, 2009, 02:23 PM
All I can tell you is do what you think is right. I can also tell you that I loved my rott more than words could ever express. His eyes were still sparkling when I had him put down - the cancer that ate away at his body did not eat his spirit nor soul however it left him immobile.

He ate and ate. Nothing could stop him from that. Infact his last breakfast was fresh meat, dog food, cheerie Os and marshmellows and sprinkles of liver treats.

So in saying one can say that what is the right time for one, may not be for another.

The most important thing in all this remains to be the dog. It is not about how we 'feel' but more about how he does. You do know when it is time....for some however it is about when it is OUR right time to say good bye.

No one can tell you over the internet what to do. You are seeing and living it now. Whenever I was not sure I would ask my vet one simple question: "if this was your dog (or cat) what would you do?". Based on his answer - I would put my own feelings aside and follow his words. It never failed me.

BTW - dogs do have souls. Just to let you know so that when you do say good-bye, please remain with him for 20 minutes as he is still with you.

Malahoot
January 19th, 2009, 02:41 PM
here is something i found on the internet. it answers the question, when do i put my dog down? I still feel that i am doing the right thing.
.

The only ones you need answer to are yourself & Mystic. He's YOUR buddy

How is he doing anyway?

ashtoreth
January 19th, 2009, 04:34 PM
bds1960to, :censored:off seriously....

dhassay

I'm so sorry about your dog, I'll burn a candle for you and your dog.
only you know when the time is right, noone here know your dog and how he feels other than you at best. It's an hard time and I know how you feel.

good vibes!!! :goodvibes: :grouphug:

dhassay
January 19th, 2009, 04:46 PM
just talked to our vet and she calmed me down and made me feel better.

He is about the same.

BenMax
January 19th, 2009, 04:48 PM
Your vet knows so just enjoy your dog. If the vet says everything is fine then just go by that.

You do not need our approval nor disapproval here. You are living it so all we can do is support you.

Now go give your baby a big hug.

ScottieDog
January 19th, 2009, 06:28 PM
To Mystic's Daddy,

It is so hard to know what to do. When we made our decision with our little Tipper, I called my family vet--Tipper was so ill she was in the ICU hospital with her internal medicine vet. I told him everything that was wrong (he already had gotten a report from the other vet, so he knew), I asked him if we were doing the right thing. Our vet went into detail what was going to happen to her if we didn't make our choice. He then told us that we were making the right choice. A few days later, I went to his office to pick up food for my other dog. He came out and spent so much time with me. He told me that everyone struggles with euthanasia. He said he could give the medical facts and council, but it is up to the owners. He said that you really need to find "the time" and it is difficult. Owners don't want to do it too soon. It is equally painful to do it too late. He said many families end up erring on the too late side.

I told him that I felt that with Tipper's illness we were on a child's sliding board. We would go up the steps, then down a step, then back up, then back down. I told him that I felt that as long as we were able to come back down, things would be OK. But, when we made our decision, we felt that Tipper was sitting at the top of the slide ready to go down the ramp. I told him that I couldn't let her go down that way. We had exhausted all medical hope. My vet said that he felt that we had found Tipper's "right time". I found tremendous comfort in this; my vet is wonderful and I have the utmost respect for him.

I know this analogy to a sliding board may sound silly, but it is how I felt. As long as you and Mystic have hope, hold on to this for dear life. But at the same time, cherish every day, moment and second you can share. It sounds like you have a good relationship with your vet. Vet's give our pets medical treatment, but they also minister to our souls as well. Only your family can judge Mystic's quality of life, not those of us on a message board. As pet lovers, we are all concerned for the well-being of Mystic, but as compassionate humans, we are also care about you and your family. Sorry to ramble, but know your whole family is in my thoughts.

-Sandra

lUvMyLaB<3
January 19th, 2009, 06:52 PM
I can see how much you love that dog, I understand that this is not something that you can just decide on a whim, You love that dog, and he loves you, I know you both have a true connection, and when he is ready to go, you will know without a doubt and you wont have to question it. If you were someone that was letting him suffer I would understand, but you are not. I have seen many dogs come back after conditions that they were not to survive from, and people were told to let them go, you see a lot in a short time at a vet clinic. You will know, trust yourself. Best wishes.

marko
January 20th, 2009, 12:05 AM
Please let's keep this thread civil. We all want what's best for the dog and there is no reason for rudeness. To me this thread calls more for compassion (To both the OP and dog) than anything else. Let's move on please.

Karin
January 20th, 2009, 12:58 AM
just talked to our vet and she calmed me down and made me feel better.

He is about the same.

When I first came to this board I was in dire need of information, my Ciara was going through another crisis. I will not go into details because they are on record.
Of course this was a much different situation, but only the owner really knows for sure what is going on with their end. Ciara would rally and life was grand again. Then she would crash... new medication and she would rally, again. I spared no expense on her health care. She was my $12,000. roommate, buddy.
But when she did not rally after trying new things and old, "pulled all tricks in the book so to speak"..she had lost so much weight and was no longer happy with her favorite things in life. (I know I was one of those, right up there with food) It was time.
Only YOU know when is right. I support you, you will know yourself. I had many appointments set over a two year period with my vet, sometimes she canceled after talking to me, most times I canceled.
I got five years more with her than expected. But I am a vet tech and this is a different case. I was able to do most things at home to keep costs down and all medications she needed were at cost from various vet's I knew, and I applaud their help.
Go with your gut.

dhassay
January 20th, 2009, 09:27 AM
i will make this short because it is very hard to type this but my wife and i think today is the day. he didnt have that zest in his eyes last night and we can tell he is in pain. we are going to take off from work a little early. i think we will have to go to the houston spca because they do it for free but accept donations which i will be giving. my vets office charges about 200 and we just cant afford that. my mom took one of our pets years ago there and said it was a good experience considering. does anyone disagree about going to the spca?
we love that dog so much that for us to show more love is to do him a favor and let him go. i think its time.

thanks to everyone for everything. i will write again soon and let you know how we and our other pets are. time for the tears now.

BenMax
January 20th, 2009, 09:50 AM
I am so sorry to hear this.

As far the SPCA and euthansia I can tell you first hand. Daily I was in the euthansia room to help animals over the bridge. I tried very hard to remain strong but it was very difficult.

In my opinion and from what I saw, this is not a good place to do this procedure. The animals react very negatively as I truly think that they can sense that something is horribly wrong. It really depends on where the bodies are disposed of as well. If the disposal area is in the same place where the euthanasia is done - then please do not have him put down there. If you have no other option then stay with him.

I would seriously be borrowing some money or I would ask the vet for a payment plan. The SPCA is not an ideal place to do this - it is very stressful for the animals.

I wish you strength and peace.

Love4himies
January 20th, 2009, 10:10 AM
I am sorry to hear about Mystic. I agree with BenMax, be with him when he passes, and take him to the place that would be the least stressful for him. :grouphug: to you and your family.

ScottieDog
January 20th, 2009, 12:06 PM
dhassay,

I am sorry to hear your news today. You, Mystic and your family will be in my thoughts and prayers today. It will be so hard. Know that you are giving Mystic the ultimate gift you can give. His suffering is ending, but yours continues. We bear this pain because we love them.

May Mystic have a gentle, safe passage to the bridge. Remember, he lives forever in your heart.

When you are able, visit www.petloss.com. It is a comforting place.

dhassay
January 20th, 2009, 12:32 PM
thanks everyone. we will be with him for sure. i would never let this procedure be done without us there for him. our two other dogs have been laying close to him. they must know too.

BenMax
January 20th, 2009, 12:37 PM
They can definately sense that he is slipping. If at all possible, go to a vet and not the SPCA...please. I am certain your vet will allow for a payment plan. If you can come up with half the amount up front I am certain they will help you.

I certainly do not want to add pressure on this already difficult situation however the question was asked and I really need to emphasize it. I do not want to get graphic, but please do this in a clinic.

Also, I do recall that you did not believe that dogs have souls. They absolutely do. It is important to spend 20 minutes with him after helping him to the bridge - he will be with you until he gets there. (I know I sound crazy....)

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family. Special prayers for a safe journey to your beautiful boy.:grouphug:

dhassay
January 20th, 2009, 12:49 PM
it wasnt me who said they dont have souls. i could never think that. we will be with him and stay with him.

BenMax
January 20th, 2009, 12:55 PM
it wasnt me who said they dont have souls. i could never think that. we will be with him and stay with him.

My apologies - I am pretty sure I read that in one of your posts. Again, safe journey to your pup.

Malahoot
January 20th, 2009, 01:20 PM
May you & your wife be at peace knowing you are giving your friend the hardest but kindest gift of love. :sorry:

I've never had to say goodbye to a friend in a shelter situation so have no experience to share on that one. I have my vet come to our home because it's the most comfortable place for both my pets & I. It's always been quiet, peaceful and without any stress.

Karin
January 20th, 2009, 02:04 PM
You and your family are in my prayers.

I believe the shelter would be a good place to take him. I myself was on the other end for a while. I was the one who took great care when a pet had to be put down. People who work in shelters are caring people. He will be in good hands for his final journey.

dhassay
January 20th, 2009, 08:19 PM
he went to sleep very peacefully. my wife and i rubbed his head and he was looking at us in the eyes. his head lowered a little bit and we knew he was out of any suffering. i buried my head into his fur around his neck and let myself go. a little while later they said he was gone. the houston spca did a great job so those of you that really really tried to get us to go to the vets office must of had a bad experience or maybe we got lucky but i cant say anything negitive about the houston spca. i donated some money to help other pets. mystic is in peace now and hopefully running around with our other pets that have passed. we will never forget him.

Melanie1010
January 20th, 2009, 08:44 PM
I am so sorry for your loss, I have just read this whole thread and thank you for all you did for Mystic, it sounds like he was very loved! I am glad you were with him when he crossed rainbow bridge, one day you will meet up with him again!

Rest in peace Mystic:candle:

joeysmama
January 20th, 2009, 09:47 PM
I am so sorry for your loss. I know that is an intense moment. Even though you were doing what you knew was the right thing you can't help but wish in your heart that you didn't have to. I know with Joey I just wished he had a chance to get well but he didn't so there was nothing left to do but take on the pain myself so that he could be free of his.

My thoughts and prayers are with you !!

14+kitties
January 20th, 2009, 10:45 PM
:candle::rip: Mystic :candle: You will be very much missed. :sad:

marko
January 21st, 2009, 09:55 AM
I am so sorry for your loss and would like to offer my sincere condolences as well.
:rip:sweet mystic :candle:

dhassay
January 21st, 2009, 10:23 AM
thanks everyone. its been a tough three weeks. i am relieved that he isnt feeling any pain even though we do. i wish i could explain what a wonderful dog he was. i was working on a computer at a customers office which happened to be a vets office. she had a huge malamute lying on the floor. she saw how much i like him and i told how much i liked the breed. she said she had another malamute that is up for adoption. she brought him into the room and i instantly knew i was taking him home to care for him for life. my wife and i did just that. good bye mystic. you are loved.:rip:

hazelrunpack
January 21st, 2009, 10:42 AM
I'm so sorry for your loss of Mystic, dhassey :grouphug: It's been a long hard journey for you. He was well-loved.

:candle: Mystic

bds1960to
January 21st, 2009, 07:39 PM
I know you asked me not to post on your thread again, but please let me extend my sympathies. I meant no harm or disrespect in the questions I asked. I was not passing judgement. I was asking questions about your decision-making process. And you answered my questions when you went on to explain about how you'd make your decisions based on when you saw the light go out in your dog's eyes.

The peril of internet posting is that people can read intentions into a post that never were there.

I am, in fact, perfectly in-turn with the situation you were in, as I had to take my 18 year old cat for a last visit to the vet just 6 weeks ago.

growler~GateKeeper
January 21st, 2009, 11:14 PM
:grouphug:

:rip: sweet :angel2: Mystic run free at the Rainbow Bridge (http://www.indigo.org/rainbowbridge_ver2.html) :candle:

Shaykeija
January 21st, 2009, 11:33 PM
I am so sorry for your loss. Mystic knew love right to the end....:rip::pray::angel2:

Kirby's Mom
January 22nd, 2009, 03:26 AM
Beautiful Dog! Sorry for you're Loss.:*(

dhassay
January 22nd, 2009, 09:59 AM
thanks bsd1960to. i was in a bad frame of mind for weeks dealing with this and i think your wording just set me off.

I wanted to post another picture of mystic. take a look and tell me just how awesome this dog was. the one next to him is our bailey. she is 15 and still doing good but missing her mystic like us.

diandpat
January 22nd, 2009, 10:12 AM
dhassay, of course Mystic is simply gorgeous and it is no wonder you loved him enough to do everything you had to in the end...even the most loving thing possible-sending him to the Bridge :rip:

Bailey looks to be in good shape for 15. Obiviously, dogs have a great life with you ;)

All my sympathies at the loss of your Mystic and I wish Bailey good health for a long long time.

Malahoot
January 23rd, 2009, 01:22 PM
Ah old handsome Malamute he was!
Looks like he's about to blow coat in the picture :)

MushkosMom
January 28th, 2009, 12:31 AM
I just read your thread/story and I'm sooo sorry! Your story brought tears to my eyes. I have a malamute and can't imagine what you're going through. Your mal was a very handsome dog and it sounds as though he was well taken care of. :angel2: