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Confused and Sad

July 28th, 2004, 10:54 PM
I have an 8 month old border collie X and he is turning into a bad dog.. i do everything, i train him right... but my parents are starting to scream at me because of some of the things the dog is doing... i can't take it... i'm so frustrated cause i keep on training and its not working

i'm so confused and frustrated :(

Lucky Rescue
July 28th, 2004, 10:58 PM
Can you tell us what this dog is doing that is "bad", and how you are training him, how much exercise he gets and so on. Has he been to obedience school?

Some things dogs do may seem bad, but is actually just a breed trait. For example,border collies can be nippy but that is just because of how they herd sheep.

Give us some details and I'm sure someone can help you.

alpha sheltie
July 28th, 2004, 11:00 PM
What are some of the bad things he's doing?

Sometimes, the best trained dogs will still behave badly when they're bored. Border Collies are smart, smart dogs. When they don't have a job, they'll find one themselves.

July 28th, 2004, 11:02 PM
NO, my dog hasn't been to school... but i have read all the good books and site about training. For example, my parents are watching tv ( when i'm not home) and he gets a kneelex box from the table and rips it apart... i walk him everyday.. another bad thing he does is jump up on the counter and takes food ( why does he do this when he knows its wrong ?)

alpha sheltie
July 28th, 2004, 11:07 PM
Don't know why he does it when he knows it's wrong but.. maybe you can use this trick that I used on one of my dogs.

Kaedyn would always jump up on the window ledge and bark at people passing by. I heard this could cause territorial issues so I put a stop to it.

I put a piece of cardboard along the window ledge. Part of it leaned off the ledge. I put a can filled with rocks on the cardboard. Everytime he jumped up, it would fall down and startle him. It took him about 3 tries before he fully understood not to. He hasn't jumped since.

July 28th, 2004, 11:11 PM
is there hope for my dog ?! or is he going to be bad forever ?

Kona Dawg
July 28th, 2004, 11:22 PM
Border Collie's are extremely smart dogs, by some standards the smartest in the dog world. Physical exercise alone is not nearly enough for these dog's. The dog also has to be exercised mentally. Have you considered training for flyball, agility, or any of the other multiple disciplines out there? When my dog get's bored, she act's out along the same lines. It's definately a nesesity to train your dog to have manner's, but you must also train him in at least one type of
mentally stimulating game. A great first one is frisby or to retrieve. A neighbor of mine has 2 BC's who are great at retrieving. (The only 2 dog's I've met who can keep up with Kona) I gaurentee you that if you keep this dogs mind stimulated that the un wanted behaviour will go away. If you do not get this dog mentally stimulated he will turn neurotic. Please do this for him as neurotic BC's are often given up and need a ton of work from very experienced handler's to break them from it. Sometimes it is just not possible and they are put down.

alpha sheltie
July 28th, 2004, 11:24 PM
Oh, of course there is hope! :D

I've seen horrible acting dogs turn into angels (I myself own of those ex-devil dogs). Remember, he's still young. Some mature emotionally faster, some slower. It just takes patience from you, determination and consistancy.

July 28th, 2004, 11:28 PM
okay, i already play frisbee and i throw the ball to him and he retrieves it.. how long per day should i do that with him ?! what if its raining outside ?!
how do you know when a dog becomes nuerotic ?!

thanks for the help everyone.. i'm learning a lot

alpha sheltie
July 28th, 2004, 11:37 PM
How ever long it takes for him to be ready to kneel over and take a long nap. ;) Retrieving and playing frisbee may not be enough though. If you were to train him for 30 minutes instead of playing frisbee for 30 minutes, I'm sure you'd get him more tired with training. When my dogs start acting naughty and it's yucky outside, I play hide and seek with them. Kai especially loves it. It helps with his recall and it makes him think. I hide all over the house and he has to search for me. He loves it and is ready to take a nap after 15 minutes of playing.

July 28th, 2004, 11:38 PM
wow... i never thought of playing a seeking game!! thanks... i fyou have any other ideas... please post them up :)

Cactus Flower
July 29th, 2004, 12:36 AM
Alpha you are very clever! I was impressed with the can of rocks on cardboard trick!

July 29th, 2004, 07:16 AM
I agree with the hide and seek... my Rosie loved that game when she was younger... however in her older age she's only up for one seek... then she's done :D But it is great fun to see how smart they are... the smart ones will check every place you've ever hidden one after the other... really neat to watch.

As for when it's raining... other than house games to play - neither of you will melt... just be sure to dress for the weather (more for you than the dog) The dog will be fine - just dry him off when you get home.

You really should look into a local agility or flyball club. Both those activities are great for high energy dogs and extra good for the smart ones (I've also done agility with mine). Even teaching "dumb dog tricks" you know the ones we all show off to visitors ;) are great for keeping a dog's mind occupied. Also i would recommend going to an obedience class, I found I liked the atmosphere and the energy and both me and my dog enjoyed the weekly classes ( I went from puppy classes through to advanced obedience) - even though I already knew what to do to train my dog it seemed more fun and worked better when we went to classes.

I've never had a BC - but my Rottie was quite high energy when she was younger and all of the above helped to keep her occupied.

July 29th, 2004, 07:59 AM
Since I don't know much about dog-training,I just wanted to add,your puppy is beautiful and what your parents consider a"bad"dog seems to me to be just"give me some attention" puppy-behaviour.
One of my cats loves tearing apart,Kleenex boxes,toilettpaper does not make him a bad cat.
I take it you are young and fully dependant on your parents,do they have any experience with puppies,are they willing to help?
I have never heard of a dog jumping up on a counter,but Border collies are very agile,I suppose..
I am sure with help from knowledgable people in this Forum,you'll do fine with your pup,they'll stick with you.
Maybe if your parents could be a little more patient,after all it is a puppy,you could ask them to read some of the posts here and get a little more understanding as to what the puppies needs and wants are. Good Luck!

July 29th, 2004, 09:11 AM
Your puppy is beautiful! When I play hide/seek with Den-Den, we call it "playing monster"! When he finds me, I roar and jump at him and he takes off flying through the house, racing around in circles. He loves it. You have to put your hands up to your mouth like teeth and wiggle your fingers wildly too. :D

July 29th, 2004, 09:31 AM
Everything your dog is experiencing is normal for a pup. What you need to do is confine him more to where he cannot get into trouble.

Some pups are more of a handful than others, however, they turn into great dogs! Have patience, tell your parents to have patience, and go get some good books to read on puppy raising.

There is a good book also called "Puppies for Dummies" See if your library has one.


July 29th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Do you put him in a crate when you're not home? It sounds like your parents don't want to deal with his puppy behaviors when you're not around nor should they. Yep play and walk him alot to tire him out. Good luck. :)

July 29th, 2004, 08:28 PM
Your puppy is beautiful! When I play hide/seek with Den-Den, we call it "playing monster"! When he finds me, I roar and jump at him and he takes off flying through the house, racing around in circles. He loves it. You have to put your hands up to your mouth like teeth and wiggle your fingers wildly too. :D

LOL.... I got a mental picture :D

The things we will do to amuze our pets... LOL I run around the house like a fool to get Rosie going... usually lasts for about 5 min now (as she gets older - she just doesn't get into much any more)... then I'm left running around like a nut trying to get her to play while she looks at me like a teenager saying... "Moooommm you're such a dweeb" :rolleyes:

July 29th, 2004, 09:24 PM
Thank You all for the great advice, but i have one question,

how do I hide, cause my pup follows me everywhere!! haha.. it will be hard to hide.

And this might seem like a silly question-- but what is agility ?!

I had a long discussion with my parents, and they will be more understanding, although they are very good in that area already.

i have been taking him out for a rollerblade and playing catch with him everyday before i go to work, and walk him after work. Is it okay if i don't wlak him twice a day- EVERYDAY? say, if i have to stay later at school

alpha sheltie
July 29th, 2004, 11:32 PM
how do I hide, cause my pup follows me everywhere!! haha.. it will be hard to hide.
I hide by putting Kai in a stay. Then I let him watch me walk about 5 feet away and hide behind something. Then I yell "Kai! Come!" and he comes to me. They get it after a couple games. In no time, I was able to put him in a stay downstairs and I'd run upstairs to hide. They catch on really fast.

And this might seem like a silly question-- but what is agility ?!
Agility is a dogsport that involves jumps, aframes (ramps), tunnels, weave poles, chutes, and such. The obstacles are set according to the height of the dog. Basically, it's just an obstacle course that the dogs go through. Tons of dogs love it. I'm planning on taking Kai and Kaedyn to boost their self confidence soon.

i have been taking him out for a rollerblade and playing catch with him everyday before i go to work, and walk him after work. Is it okay if i don't wlak him twice a day- EVERYDAY? say, if i have to stay later at school
It should be fine! It's not so much the physical exercise as it is the mental exercise. Sometimes I can't walk the dogs every day so instead of taking them for a run/walk, they just get some games that require them to think. I have a cousin who has two Border Collies. You could run with them all day and they'd never tire. Take them home and make them think... and they're pooped within half an hour. :p

July 29th, 2004, 11:47 PM
This site is great! I just read this thread, and at first I was so concerned for this poor pet owner who seemed so lost. Then I read on and so many people have great advice and are excellent cheerleaders! And your puppy is sooooo adorable, and I too think that with some love and patience, along with all the wonderful suggestions you've got, that puppy will turn out to be a great companion and maybe even quite talented! :D

July 30th, 2004, 12:57 AM
how do I hide, cause my pup follows me everywhere!! haha.. it will be hard to hide.

When Den-Den takes off running in circles, I scoot to the next hiding place. Laying on the floor behind the guest bed, standing behind the door, laying in the bathtub, flat against the wall around the corner, anyplace where "the monster" can jump out and startle him again.

July 30th, 2004, 01:11 AM
1st off, your parents need to STOP screaming at you and you need not be so frustrated. You know what your pups problem is don't you? HE"S A PUP!
Thats it. Completely normal behavior for a puppy. If he were laid back and lethargic, then you worry! Screaming won't do an ounce of good, trust me. And of course NEVER EVER EVER strike your pet.
Of course, you can't accept this naughty behavior too. He need to ne put in puppy classes asap to curb the problem. I'm sure you have tried and have read books and checked out sites but smetimes the animals owner needs training in how to properly train him and learn how to deal with the behavior and what to do when he is being naughty. You says he knows when he's bad......but you don't that for sure. He's learning his boundaries.
Is he left at home alone very much? Pups have a ton of energy (as you already know I am sure) and get bored and lonely very quickly. He needs toys and an idea if you are going out, put on the TV for him or a video with (NOW DONT LAUGH) animals in it. My dogs LOVE shows where there is barking or cats scrapping,etc. So funny to watch! I left a video cam on once to catch their reaction while I was out. My peke did not leave the tv set the entire time until she heard the door unlock! *LOL* If you are gone for extended periods, hire someone...a friend or an experienced pet sitter to come over and walk him and just play for short periods of time. Its well worth the money if it curbs the destructive behavior . But the most important thing for eveyone involved is puppy training! It will make him a nicer dog! You'll be happy b/c your parents are no longer screaming, so you wont be stressed and they'll be happy b/c they dont have tissue boxes shredded any longer and no stealing food off countertops,etc. It's well worth the money for qualified puppy training, Trust Me! Ask your veterinarian if they have someone they reccomend. We usually have favorites that we'll tell clients about if they ask. Good Luck!

July 30th, 2004, 01:15 AM
Oh, one more thing.....I'd get him a "Kong" Pet ssupply tores have them and so do most veterinarian offices. Put his favorite cookie/ treat inside or my dogs favorite....peanut butter. He bounce the kong and try to lick the peanut butter out. My little dog licked and licked at hers for over an hour in the frustrated and gave it a shove with her nose and it rebounded off the tree and bounced along the ground....well, that was it......the game was ON! She loves her kong....its her fav. She knows it's peanutbutter time! At least it keeps them busy and occupied!