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New Boston Terrier Puppy

Mahealani770
January 1st, 2009, 02:00 PM
Hello everybody!! LTNS!!! Danita and I are about to add a new member to our "house of love". We're on our way to rescue a Boston Terrier from a BYB. Wish us luck!! I'll post pictures as soon as we get home with her.

Love,
Mahealani, Nita, Nicky and Minnie

BenMax
January 1st, 2009, 02:07 PM
Good luck with the pup.

angeldogs
January 1st, 2009, 02:53 PM
Good luck with getting the pup.and some pics when you get a chance.

Lukka'sma
January 1st, 2009, 05:45 PM
The pup will make a wonderful addition to you family. I know the four of you will be happy as can be.

hazelrunpack
January 1st, 2009, 05:53 PM
We're gonna hold you to those pics, Mahealani! :goodvibes: (<------that's hazel all excited, waiting for pics :D)

Mahealani770
January 1st, 2009, 06:29 PM
Hello! Well, the baby is snoring her tail off on my lap right now...lol She dove head first into a bowl of food as soon as we got her home. She was eating so ravenously, I wonder if they even bothered feeding her?

She was very lathargic and couldn't hardly keep her eyes open when we first saw her. We also noticed that one of her eyes seemed to have what looked like a bluish matter, but now that we are able to get a good look at it, it looks as if it might be inside her eye. I fought back the tears on the 2-hour ride back home. I hope she's ok.

Don't even get me started on the fact that she's between 6 and 7 weeks and has had NO shots, but we knew that ahead of time, hence the need to rescue her. So, I'm thinking that the lathargia is from worms. Any ideas? We had to force some de-wormer down her throat, which was awful, but it had to be done. So, I'm waiting for a flood of worms to come flying out any time now...lol I thought she'd poop them out right away but she's knocked out, asleep. I tell ya, this snoring is going to keep us all up at night! lol

Anyway, it's New Year's Day so no vets are opened. On Saturday, the traveling clinic will be here so I'm kind of holding my breath until then. It's the only clinic we can afford. We heard about this poor baby needing rescuing, so we scraped together every last dime we had to go get her out of "there". We went to the pet store and got her some Wellness Puppy food, a toy, the dewormer, and some food/water bowls. We maxed out every credit card we had to give her a good home. I just hope her health issues aren't too serious... we're already in love with her.

Enough of that stuff..... onto some pictures! Yay!!! Oh, we do not have a name for her yet. A solid Hawaiian name will come to me as her personality develops, but I'll let you all know as soon as it comes to me!
Here she is on the car ride home...

babymomma
January 1st, 2009, 07:32 PM
Congrats on the new pup and THANK YOU SO MUCH for saving her!!!!!!!!


Shes adorable! :) look at that little tongue :)

otter
January 1st, 2009, 08:02 PM
she's sooooooo tiny :lovestruck:

:fingerscr and :pray: that all checks out ok!

glasslass
January 1st, 2009, 08:15 PM
Sometimes pups will eat ravenously because the breeder does a little trick to make feeding quick and easy. They put the food down for only a certain number of minutes and then remove it. The pups quickly learn to eat fast or they won't get any! Take care to give her small amounts often until she learns to trust that the food will be available when she's hungry. If you give her too much, she'll stuff herself beyond what's healthy. This is especially important if you're giving her dry puppy chow, which is what many breeders give. Too much will swell in her tummy.

Congrats on your new baby! :lovestruck: I should have said that first!

Tundra_Queen
January 1st, 2009, 10:07 PM
Oh she is adorable!! I love the 2nd pic with her cute little tongue sticking out......I just want to hug her!

Debbie

angeldogs
January 1st, 2009, 10:43 PM
Thank you for rescuing her.you and your partner.:angel:

The second pic with the tongue sticking out is soooooooooo cute.she is one cute puppy

14+kitties
January 1st, 2009, 10:47 PM
She is a sweetie. Love that second pic! :cloud9: Good luck with the traveling vets. :pray::goodvibes:

hazelrunpack
January 2nd, 2009, 12:44 AM
She is a doll! Look at that little tongue! :cloud9:

Good luck at the vet on Saturday. :goodvibes: Likely they'll give you a stronger wormer. The OTC stuff usually doesn't work very well. Make sure you bring the name of the stuff you gave her when you go on Saturday--sometimes meds can interact in nasty ways so they'll want to make sure everything they prescribe is compatible.

htsource
January 2nd, 2009, 12:55 AM
Ohh, she's so cute and what a nice dream she was having :) Love the 2nd picture with her tongue sticking out - yes I know everyone is commenting about the same picture :)

You and your family will have a great time with this puppy.

Chaser
January 2nd, 2009, 01:02 AM
What a sweetheart....you're an :angel: for saving her.

Good luck with the vet and :fingerscr for good health!

Please post more pictures later!

rainbow
January 2nd, 2009, 01:33 AM
She is adorable :cloud9: and thanks so much for rescuing her. :angel:

I hope she checks out okay at the vet....good luck and keep us posted. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

Frenchy
January 2nd, 2009, 10:47 AM
so we scraped together every last dime we had to go get her out of "there".

She's very cute Mahealani770 but I don't understand , you paid for her ? So you basicly bought a pup from a BYB ?

BenMax
January 2nd, 2009, 10:55 AM
Your new baby is gorgeous. Congrats to you and my very best.

Mahealani770
January 2nd, 2009, 02:31 PM
Hello everyone,

Thank you so much for your kind comments and advice. It's been a very long time since either of us have had a puppy, so we appreciate ALL advice.

I'm typing this in a half delirious state as I have had ZERO sleep! This little piglet snores like CRAZY and she moves constantly while she's sleeping. Also, worms were falling out of her butt so of course I was looking at her rearend every five minutes ALL night long. We had her sleeping in between us last night but I don't know if I can do that again..lol...I need sleep!

Any tips you all have to offer regarding obedience training techniques are welcome! She seems to be getting the hang of "no" but Boston Terriers are very sensitive to changes in your tone of voice, so we're paranoid about yelling at her or around her. She hasn't had a single accident in the apartment. We have pee pee pads all over the place and she hasn't needed them once. We take her outside all the time so that's probably why there have been no accidents, but I'm still surprised. I'm a little worried about going to school for 4 hours this coming Tuesday. She sleeps for HOURS so I'm hoping that she'll sleep the whole time I'm gone. I'm going to be worried sick about her the whole time though, being a new mommy to a pup and all.

GlassGlass, thanks for the info on the feeding issue. We have some Wellness kibble in her bowl at all times and we put some Wellness wet food on top of it, every now and then. Is that ok?

Frenchy, I was waiting for your question. It is against everything I believe in to purchase a pup from a BYB. I hate them with a passion. However, I had to go against something I believe in strongly, to save the life of this innocent puppy. This was one of those situations where I was put between a rock and a hard place and I chose to rescue this little girl out of a bad situation, even though we had to pay to do it. I am the biggest opposer of BYB's but I had to make an exception this one time and I'm glad I did. This little girl deserved someone to rescue her, even if it meant paying for it. I'm sorry if you don't agree but if you saw where we rescued her from, you'd understand. We didn't go looking for her, we were told about her by someone who was concerned. So, we feel that we did a good thing.

Ok, onto the good stuff! Here is... "Kainoalani"... or "Kai" for short! Yay!! (Sounds like: Ky-Noah-Lonnie and it means "Heaven's Namesake")

BenMax
January 2nd, 2009, 03:36 PM
Your girl is adorable and you are happy - that is the main thing. Though I aswell am against bybs I do know that sometimes a situation calls for intervention. In essence, you probably did save the pup. The pup could have been kept for stock, sold badly to someone else, gone to a petstore, and eventually be in rescue.

You are pleased and your dog is safe. It all works out.

Best to you.

Wicked tats by the way.

chico2
January 2nd, 2009, 05:27 PM
Mahealani,good to hear from you again:thumbs up
What a beautiful little puppy,you girls will have sooo much fun with her.
Hopefully she checks out fine with the vet.:fingerscr
My Rocky snores loud too,but I find it kind of soothing and cute,now hubby,that's a different story:laughing:
If this BYB you got her from,keeps the dogs in miserable conditions,maybe you could report her the the SPCA:fingerscr

Mahealani770
January 2nd, 2009, 07:27 PM
Benmax ~ That is my wife (partner), Danita, with all the tats. I'll tell her what you said and I'll say "thank you" for her...lol I'll attach a picture of myself below so that all of you "newcomers" know who I am :thumbs up

Chico ~ Hey girl! LTNS!! Thanks for the compliments and it's so good to see you again! The whole BYB thing is under control...trust:thumbs up

Smiley14
January 2nd, 2009, 08:52 PM
Oh YAY, another Boston on the board! I have two. :thumbs up Welcome back by the way! It's nice to see you again! :)

Mahealani770
January 2nd, 2009, 11:29 PM
Hi Smiley and thank you! Please flood me with any and all info that you think we could use as new Boston owners! Normally, before getting a pet, we'd research but she was not planned...lol So far we know that Bostons like to learn, they may be difficult to potty train, they are sensitive to the tones in people's voices and they are inside dogs. Anything else?

Smiley14
January 3rd, 2009, 02:36 AM
Oh, Bostons are amazing little dogs! As you said, they are extremely sensitive to tone and are very eager to please. They are loving, sweet, and docile, but at the same time, very, very busy. :) They are both hyper and lazy. :) Very smart, but can be stubborn. Extremely expressive, both in their faces and in the sounds they make. I swear these dogs TALK to you with more sound effects than any other breed I've seen so far. They are notoriously gassy and loud snorers because of the short noses. Neither of mine are gassy though, so I think food does play a huge part of it. They are little dogs, but very powerful. Able to rough and tumble with the big dogs and will love every minute of it. They can have a very rough play style or "bitey face" as the Boston community usually calls it that can sometimes be mislabeled as aggressive. Training is very important for this breed as well.

BT's only have a single layer coat, so they are extremely sensitive to hot and cold, more so than other short-haired breeds as many short haired breeds still have a double coat. So they have no natural protection from rain, cold, heat, or wind. Their thin coat and short nose makes them very sensitive to hot and cold and need to be watched very carefully. They cannot handle the same temps that most other dogs can. You'll want sweaters or coats in the winters and probably a cooling vest in the summer if you're going to be walking for more than 5-10 minutes. They can be prone to cherry eye and watch their eyes around cats or rough play as because they bulge a bit, can be scratched and damaged pretty easily. They are prone to luxating patella and seizures as well, but are otherwise a pretty healthy breed and generally live for a long time. As puppies (once you hit maybe 12 weeks or so) they have two speeds, crazy hyper and dead asleep, LOL, and can alternate between both speeds amazingly fast. :) They are good at entertaining themsleves, but watch out as they love to chew. You'll want to train "no bite" and "leave it." :) Even though they are small, they tend to be toy destructive. So think "tough big dog" when looking at toys. :) Kongs and cuzs and galileo nylabones are great! They love to give kisses, so watch out for the tongue! They will adore their humans for life and become almost human themselves to you. Something about that square, round face and very expressive eyes and sounds make them seem just a little more aware than some other breeds. :) You will swear they understand you and talk back to you. :)

A funny, but odd fact as well is that most Boston's can't swim because of their short, square shape. They sink like a rock. So watch them carefully around water as well. Some BT's can swim, but usually only after they've been taught. In general, it doesn't come naturally to them like it does with other breeds and they can't naturally do the doggie paddle and stay afloat because of their body shape.

Hmm, I'm sure I'll think of more, but that's what comes to mind off the top of my head. Sorry if I'm rambling here! They are such a fun breed!

growler~GateKeeper
January 3rd, 2009, 02:46 AM
Cute pup :cloud9:

chico2
January 3rd, 2009, 08:10 AM
Mahealani,that's a beautiful pic of you,looking at the two of you,it looks like your diet worked:thumbs up

Mahealani770
January 3rd, 2009, 09:48 AM
Wow, thanks Smiley. We really appreciated all that information. We are definitely experiencing the "bitey face" thing. When Kai gets rambunctuous and is hyper, she likes to jump up and try to bite our faces as well as our fingers. I'm not sure if we're correcting her the proper way, but we tell her "no" and stop playing with her or put her down. She is not even 7 weeks yet so I don't know if I should be trying to correct her in the way that her Mother would, or what? And if so, I'm not sure what to do. Has she learned "bite inhibition" at this age yet? I know that pups aren't to be taken from their Mothers until they reach a certain age so that they can still learn from her, so I'm not sure what she has or has not learned from her Mother.

Kai has not peed in the apartment at all and has not even gone potty on the pee pads we have all over the house. She is doing so well. She eats and drinks, we tire her out with play, she sleeps for hours and AS SOON as she wakes up, we take her straight outside where she does all her business. She runs back to our apartment door (it's amazing that she already knows where she lives) and she starts the eat/play/sleep cycle all over again...lol

We were worried on the first day we saw her because she had what looked like blue matter in her eyes but now it looks like it's part of her eye. We were wondering if she might be partially blind but she sees us and everything else just fine, we think. We will finally be on our way to the vet in about an hour so we can't wait to get her all checked over.

Our main concern is training her early and correctly. We don't want to do anything the wrong way. I have to go to school for 4 hours on Monday so I'm worried about leaving her alone. What did you do with your pups when they had to be alone for a few hours?

Thanks for all your help! Also, she snores like CRAZY!! lol I feel so bad for her because her breathing seems really difficult for her, even just walking around, eating, and playing.

Chico ~ You're a doll! Danita has lost over 100 lbs. I, on the other hand, have only lost 60 and have a LONG way to go...ugh!

Smiley14
January 3rd, 2009, 08:14 PM
They sleep a LOT at this age. Then they suddenly turn hyper, LOL! How did the vet visit go? Hopefully all went well! Belle came to me with 4 kinds of worms and coccida (sp?). Ugh!

I found an old post I had made for someone else who asked about bite inhibition. This one was a huge challenge for Belle! So I'll re-post it for you. She's GREAT now. Absolutely no problems at all. So stay consistent and start right away. I started with Belle the day I got her at 8 weeks old.

I had the exact same issue with Belle. She was a rather dominant and nippy baby! It actually made me nervous for the first few weeks because I was afraid she was aggressive. I have experience with a fear aggression dog and did NOT want to deal with that again. The first thing I learned is that it's pretty much unheard of for a puppy this young to have aggression. The pup can be dominant and rough/aggressive in play, but it not aggression. I've also learned that Bostons are more intense in play than some other breeds, so even though I have experience with a lot of breeds, this was my first Boston, so wasn't familiar with that at first.

Know that it's completely normal and completely trainable. It will just take time and lots and lots of patience. There are a few methods you can try. These are the three that worked for me:

1. The yelping method. Each and every time her teeth touch you you should yelp as loud and high pitched as you can, the way that an injured puppy might yelp. Then get up, turn your back to her and briskly walk away. Completely ignore her. If she follows you, then without a word pick her up and put her in a timeout space. For timeout use a safe space but never a space that you want her to go willingly such as her crate or where you bathe her. Leave her in timeout for about 1-2 minutes. If she whines, do not let her out while she is whining. Instead, wait it out. When you do let her out make her do something for you such as a sit, down, rollover. Then reward her good behavior and go back to what you were doing before she nipped at you. If you are very consistent with this method and use it every single time she nips at you, you can change her behavior now so it's not a problem later on. It will take time but she should get the hang of it. Although for me, this one was more effective when Belle was a little older for some reason. Every dog is different and sometimes will need a different method than others. I would try this method first though as it seems to be the most effective.

2. A method to assert your alpha status for hand biting that worked well for me too in times when the yelping didn't work was to actually gently but firmly push your hand FURTHER into the back of the pup's mouth and hold it there for 30 seconds or so. The pup tends to go still and then you withdraw your hand, but immediately offer it again. The response you want to see is a licking of your hand instead of biting it again. This one was very effective with Belle for whatever reason. Apparently it's supposed to mimic the mother putting her mouth over the pup's mouth. And the licking is a submissive gesture. I learned this one from my trainer.

3. I taught the command "no bite" and would say it while holding her up in the air under her armpits and holding her lower than eye level. It again puts them in a submissive position and this one is supposed to mimic Mom holding them by the scruff. I did it under the armpits, so not the same thing of course, but something about that dangling feeling calmed her down pretty quickly when she would get herself too wound up. She was very intense so we would often play for less than a minute between times of holding her up in the air and saying "no bite." She would struggle for maybe 20 seconds and then go limp and break eye contact. Praise her, put her down, and resume play. Repeat over and over again. LOL! This one works for biting of hands, feet, face, etc. I taught this command right away at 8 weeks and she learned it very quickly. I then added the yelping and did the other method for hand biting if/when the yelping wasn't enough. By a month at most, she was not biting me anymore at all, but would still bite visitors, so I had visitors also yelp. Within a few weeks, so figured out it's not okay to bite any humans. I also enrolled her in puppy class as soon as she had her shots to further enforce her training. Puppy class also helps to reinforce your bond together and you as the alpha. I would say she was completely trained against biting by 14 or 15 weeks. She's 7 months now and has a very nice personality and temperment. She is still a bit of a play bully in class though, so her social skills are still an ongoing process.


As you can see, I wrote this when Belle was 7 months old. She's now 18 months old and very well behaved and has finally mastered her social skills and play skills. :) That's not always typical of Bostons though, so don't worry. :)

Tundra_Queen
January 3rd, 2009, 08:39 PM
She is so adorable!!

Smiley, I didn't know all that about Bostons, thanks for sharing that.

Mahealani770
January 3rd, 2009, 09:58 PM
Wow Smiley, thanks SOOO much for all of that info. Kai did fine at the vet's today. We stood in line for 3.5 hours to be first and she slept most of the time, thank goodness. We also took care to not let her touch the floor or anything else that could infect her with something. She also didn't care about the dozens of dogs standing in line behind us, barking and fighting. I guess that's a good sign, but I have to keep in mind that she's sooo young and will probably become more curious.

I asked the vet about the blue color in her eyes and he says that it's puppy cataracts and she'll grow out of it in a few months, which is a relief.

We brought 2 fecal samples for the doc. One had a long round worm in it and the other had 2 tape worms. So, he gave her 1/2 of her meds today and we have to go back in 2 weeks for the rest. Kai will only be 7 weeks on Monday so she's too little to have had all of her shots. She didn't even flinch when she got her shot and dewormer, what a trooper!

Soooo.... Kai came home and pooped out 2 extremely long round worms. However, they wouldn't come all the way out so we had to actually pull them out for her! It was so nasty, I almost barfed. It breaks my heart though, just knowing that she has worms inside of her. I can't wait for this part to over with :sad:

I love all the tips you gave us on the bite-inhibition thing. I've been saying "no bite" since you suggested it the other day but I can't tell if it's working yet. That's ok, we will persist! Kai has already changed since we brought her home on Thursday. It is taking her longer to get worn out enough to go to sleep AND she fights her sleep more now. It's almost as if she's sleep-walking. She gets up and moves to about 10 different positions before she goes down for the count. She's just like a human baby who is afraid she's going to miss out on something so she fights her sleep..lol Also, Kai is very sensitive to sound. If the volume changes on the TV or if we laugh or speak loudly while she's trying to fall asleep, she hears it!!! She'll wake right back up and then it's another struggle to get her to go back to sleep. I've never had a dog do that! She's really trippin us out tonight, the way she seems so human sometimes.

Oh, I forgot to tell you that we tried Kai on a leash tonight. She thrashed around like a tornado and then eventually gave in, but I can tell that it's going to be a struggle for awhile. She pooped on the leash but she wouldn't pee with it on.

Anywho, as always, I'm ending on a cute note with some pics of us waiting in line to see the vet today. Thanks for everyone's advice and help!

Smiley14
January 3rd, 2009, 10:17 PM
OHHH, I hate the worms!!! I had to deal with that too with Belle. It's SO nasty! I just got my other Boston, Jelly, three weeks ago and she was a puppy mill rescue and is 5 months old, but I lucked out this time as she was worm free. :) Phew! :) The medicine really works well though and gets rid of them pretty quickly. Nasty little buggers. :sick: LOL!

She is SO cute!!! I just love the little puppy belly! :lovestruck:

If I remember right, it took a good two weeks before I really saw any results from the "no bite" and a good month for her to learn to not bite at any humans. So just be patient and keep it up! And oh yeah, the leash! I'm going through that right now as well with Jelly. She's older, but lived her life in a cage, so knows nothing. So I'm basically training her like a 8 week old puppy instead of a 5 month old. I found she does better on a harness than a leash on her collar and I've been leaving it on her and letting her drag it around the house. And then I'll hold it and call her towards me with treats. That's really helped a lot. We went to Petsmart today for the first time and she actually walked around the store on her leash pretty good! I was pleasantly surprised! :)

TeriM
January 3rd, 2009, 10:31 PM
Congrats on the new puppy, she is adorable :lovestruck:. How is Nicky handling the new addition?

Mahealani770
January 4th, 2009, 02:40 AM
Smiley ~ That's a good idea with holding the leash or harness along with treats. We'll try that! Thanks!

Teri ~ We actually feel bad for Nicky AND the puppy because he does not appreciate her presence. If she even LOOKS like she's going to come near him, he growls. She wants to play with him SO bad, so she'll stand in front of him yipping and taunting him. We stop her from doing that but today we didn't get to her in time and it sounded like Nicky took her head off. It was awful. I hate that he's so psychologically damaged that he will never behave like a "normal" dog. We don't want him to feel uncomfortable in his own home and we don't want the puppy to be afraid of him, so we aren't real sure how to create a happy balance yet.

We have a cat, Minnie, and she learned real fast that Nicky was NOT going to be her playmate, so she stays away from him. Nicky tolerates her by ignoring her and she stays clear of him, so they cohabitate just fine. We were hoping that Nicky would sort of "tolerate" the puppy too, but she's so playful that she pesters him to see if he'll play with her. Again, if we see her even start to go near him, we tell her "no" and redirect her somewhere else. We hate that it has to be that way, but we don't really know what else to do to "protect" Nicky from the puppy and to keep him stress-free.

Minnie has touched noses with the puppy a few times so she seems cool with her but she still hasn't quite figured out what "it" is yet...lol Kai chases her sometimes and Minne hauls ass to the top of her kitty tree and watches as Kai tries to jump up there to play with her. Should we stop Kai from trying to play with Minnie and from chasing her or do we let her continue to try and play with her? We have yet to see any stress coming from Minnie but if we ever do, we'd intervene.

Thanks for everyone's comments, concerns and helpful advice!

chico2
January 4th, 2009, 09:14 AM
OMG,that little puppy-belly:lovestruck:
I don't really have any experience introducing cats and dogs,but common sense tells me,if the puppy never leaves Minnie alone,she'll need to be able to get away.
You don't want her to start peeing out of the box etc..,if the pup follows her to her box,she'll find another place to go.
Kai,is the sweetest little thing though:lovestruck:

mafiaprincess
January 4th, 2009, 09:01 PM
[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][COLOR="Green"]

I asked the vet about the blue color in her eyes and he says that it's puppy cataracts and she'll grow out of it in a few months, which is a relief.


I would seek a second opinion.. Cataracts in any form shouldn't just go away, though it would be nice if they did. It's a congenital condition caused sadly by the breeding of the sire and dam of your puppy. Juvenile cataracts early and late onset are a big problem in the breed, and good breeders CERF their breeding stock and puppies before they go to their homes. I know you love your puppy and that certainly won't change.. but you really do need a second opinion about her eyes if it is indeed cataracts.

Mahealani770
January 4th, 2009, 11:23 PM
Thanks MP, we'll definitely get a second opinion. As far as the breeder goes, don't even get me started :mad:

TeriM
January 4th, 2009, 11:53 PM
For Minnie, it sounds like she is doing ok with the puppy. I would make sure she has lots of places to jump up and get away from the pup and would consider leaving a leash dragging on the puppy to be able to redirect her if she is stressing out the cat. It is also never to early to start to teach a "leave it" command where she learns to stop whatever she is after and gets rewards heavily for doing so.

For Nicky, I would expect him to not be amused but actually it sounds like he is doing not to bad. If he puts the pup in his place a few times that is ok (make sure that he is not to rough, definately not actually biting the pup). Older dogs usually discipline by snaps and growls. When we got our puppy Riley, Lucy actually scared the crap out of him after the first day and ever since then he has totally respected her (it was very hard not to go and console the puppy when he got scared but he certainly did learn quickly). I would also think the leash on the puppy will help this situation.

Good luck :goodvibes:.

TeriM
January 4th, 2009, 11:55 PM
I would also add that as soon as it is safe to do so you should do a ton of dog socializing with the pup. Puppies taken from litters that young often have lots of problems with this stuff and when you add in Nicky's behaviour you really will need to do a lot of work on that.

Terrycito
January 5th, 2009, 12:16 AM
She is soooo cute!!
How was the visit with the vet? :thumbs up

:rip:Terry
:dog:Molly

Mahealani770
January 6th, 2009, 12:14 PM
Hello all...

TeriM ~ Socializing is at the top of our list. As soon as she gets all of her shots, she's going on a play date with her sister. We're also going to send her to puppy playtime at our groomer's place, where she gets to play with tons of other puppies.

We want to do this right so we have a ton of questions:

1.) When should we start Kai on a leash and what's the best method of leash-training? She's 7 weeks.

2.) How often should we feed her and give her water? Do we leave her food and water down all the time?

3.) We don't have a crate for her yet so she has to sleep in bed with us. The crate/playpen is coming tomorrow (Wednesday). How long can she sleep in bed with us before we inadvertantly cause some kind of damage by letting her do so?

4.) We're having a hard time getting her to recognize her name and come to us when she's called. Is this a simple "giver her a treat" situation or is there something else we should do? Can anyone suggest a really yummy puppy treat that she'd put down anything for?

5.) It seems that Boston Terriers can be different sizes so we have no idea how big Kai is going to get. Does anybody have any suggestions as to how we can figure it out? Maybe by how big she is now? She weighs 5lbs but we haven't measured her height or length yet.

6.) Danita wants to go with this small enclosure/playpen instead of a crate, so that Kai can play when we can't watch her. What do you all think of this playpen instead of a crate? I say crate, Danita says playpen. What's the difference? Is the playpen just like a crate? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=16677&cmpid=01csesz&ref=3474&subref=AA&srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=17-25901332-2


Thank you!

BenMax
January 6th, 2009, 12:17 PM
Do not put a collar on your puppy. The best is a halter. You can start getting the pup used to the halter and leash gradually - but I would not start actual training as of yet.

Smiley14
January 6th, 2009, 02:13 PM
I'll try to answer some of your questions if I can! :)

1. You can start leash training right away! When I'm home and can watch them, I put on a collar and lightweight leash and let them drag it around to get used to it. As BenMax said, a harness is better for walking/training, so I also put on a harness when I'm home with the leash attached to that as well and again let them drag it around. I like my dogs to be trained to either, even though I always use a harness, so I rotate them both so they get used to both. I then start walking them around on the leash. You might be dragging them a little at first, so I try to lead them with treats. The harness seems to make a difference as well. I've had really good luck with this one (http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2751407)for puppy training as it seems to lead them naturally forward. It's also nice as it's adjustable by quite a bit and can grow with them. I would also take them out on the harness and leash for potty breaks so they get used to the feel of it as well. So it's a gradual build-up that they become familiar and comfortable with. Since you won't be doing any actual walks for some time, just let them wear it when you can to adjust naturally.

2. I find a strict feeding schedule helps with potty training. Puppies will go immediately after eating, so once they eat, head immediately outside. As a puppy, Belle pooped immediately after eating and then two hours later, so I knew exactly when she would have to go. Jelly poops three times after eating, immediately after, again a half hour later, and yet again an hour later. So we go through this routine twice a day, morning and night after meal time. But it helps to be able to predict when they're going to go so you can get them outside. I also limit water at least two hours before bedtime and a few hours before I'm going to be leaving for work. If you control what goes in, you can better control what comes out and when it comes out. :)

3. I think this one is kind of up to you and what your own opinion of dogs in your bed is. I find no problem with it as long as it doesn't become an alpha battle. I kept Belle in her crate until she was completely potty trained and then I let her out at night and sometimes she sleeps in her doggie bed and sometimes with me. Petey is big and takes up too much of the bed, so he's in his doggie bed at night. Jelly is still being potty trained, so I crate her at night, but will eventually let her out at night as well. The reason I personally leave mine loose at night is only because they're already crated during the day when I'm at work and that's too much crate time otherwise. Mine have also been through several training classes (and Jelly starts her first one on Sat!) so they know that I'm the boss, LOL. So the alpha position isn't in question even if Belle sleeps with me sometimes. I can't stand fur in my bed, so I cover it with a blanket each night and let them all up for an hour or two while I'm reading or watching TV, then I put them in their own beds for the night. From what most trainers say, the two schools of thought seem to be to never let a dog on the bed or funiture or that it's okay as long as they ask for permission first and/or as long as long as they still respect you as the alpha. I think that one is up to you and to what works for you. Mine are allowed on furniture whenever they want and on my bed with permission and it works just fine for us. :)

4. For learning their name, I think it's just time and repetition. I just keep repeating their name over and over again with everything and they seem to figure it out pretty quickly. :) Little chunks of chicken or tiny bits of hot dog seem to be a great motivator for most dogs. Jelly LOVES liver treats and gets super excited over those. Belle loves duck treats. So it's trial and error to see what your pup gets especially excited about. But for potty training or name training, really high value treats are definitely a must.

5. You're right in that BT's come in many sizes! The breed standard is 10-25 pounds, but I know some that are as big as 40 pounds! Belle is a bigger BT at 30 pounds. Jelly is only 5 months old so I don't know how big she will be yet, but it looks like she'll be more in the normal range as she's 10 pounds currently. A general rule of thumb is to double their weight at 4 months to get a rough idea of their full grown size, but that's not always accurate. It's impossible to know at this age or really age in the puppy stages how big they will be. But if she's already 5 pounds at only 7 weeks, I can tell you she is a big girl so far! Wow! Belle was 3.5 pounds at 7 weeks and 4.2 pounds when I brought her home at 8 weeks. She was 14 pounds at four months and 30 pounds full grown, so for her, the 4 month rule of thumb was fairly close. But again, I've seen some puppies that start out big and that seem like they'll be bigger BT's slow down in growth and end up being smaller or some like Belle that start out bigger and just keep growing and growing! So you just never know. 16-24 pounds seems to be the most typical though. The smaller ones or the bigger ones aren't as common.

6. This one can vary with each dog. Both Belle and Jelly HATED the x-pen and prefer the crate. They don't like the open roof as it freaks them out and they're happier being fully enclosed. I got a bigger crate and put a bed in one side and a potty pad in the other and only used that set-up when I was at work or times when I was going to be gone longer than the amount of time they can hold it. (Typically one hour for every month of age). And then I had a small crate just big enough for them to stand up and turn around in that I used at night and for crate training/potty training as it's usually recommended to have the crate be just big enough for them to sleep in and turn around in. Instinctively they won't want to go in their sleep area so it teaches them how to hold it and not mess the crate.
I do know others that use x-pens with good success though, so that's a hard one to answer. But for me personally, mine both hated it and it was just cheaper to go with a bigger crate as in the long run they could just use it as their regular crate as they grow into it. So it had enough room for sleeping space and potty space as puppies when needed and enough room for sleeping space when full grown. Other people will just use baby gates and gate off a room like a bathroom, kitchen, or laundry room and set up a bed and potty space that way too. So you may need to experiment a little to find what works best for you!

Mahealani770
January 6th, 2009, 07:21 PM
Wow Smiley...thank you so much for taking time to type all of that. We really appreciate it.

1.) Before I forget, Kai started something new today. She peed and pooped outside, came inside, 2 mins. later she tinkled on the carpet. I said "no", scooped her up and took her outside, she barely tinkled and back in we went. Five mins. later she tinkled again on the carpet. I said "no", scooped her up and put her outside, she gave me nothing. Came back inside, she played for 5 mins and tried to tinkle on the carpet AGAIN...same scenario. This behavior just doesn't seem normal. To have to pee that much in such a short amount of time? Could she have a bladder infection already? We just can't figure out what in the heck was going on as she has not done that since we brought her home 5 days ago. She's been on the same schedule for the past few days but today, something weird happened with all that peeing. Anybody have an opinion?

2.) Smiley, I think that after Danita reads all your helpful information, I'll be able to sway her to the crate idea. I told her that Kai will eventually be able to jump over that little pen so it's a waste of money. We just don't know what size crate to get her since we have no way of knowing how big she'll get.

3.) So, let's say we get the crate tomorrow. Should I put her blanket in the back and her pee pee pad in the front at all times or just when we leave? My pug (RIP) and Nicky both had/have no problem going potty in their crates and I do not want that kind of behavior with Kai. How do we keep her from going potty in her crate at night while we're sleeping? That's one reason we sleep with her right in between us, so we can feel her move or wake up and can whisk her right outside. We've been lucky that she has slept through every night, without waking up, but I doubt she'll do that when she realizes she's alone in her crate. I'm not working right now (ugh) so Kai will only be left alone for 4 hours a day for 4 days a week, while I'm at school and at my Internship. I know she can't hold it for 4 hours so I guess I should put her in the bathroom, with her crate and with the door opened so she can go in and out? Or do I keep her in her crate with the door shut while we're gone? I went to school last night, leaving Kai alone for the first time, and I was a nervous wreck the whole time. I put her in the bathroom with her food/water, bed, toys and pee pee pads. The babygate we have was too big to lock into place in the doorway so I used the vacuum cleaner to hold the babygate up. When I got home, Kai was greeting me at the door :eek: The babygate and vacuum cleaner were in the same spot. I have NO idea how she got out, but once she was out she couldn't get back in so she ended up not having access to anything I put in there. It really scared the crap out of me because she could've done ANY and EVERYTHING to hurt herself. I have no idea what she did the whole 3 hours I was gone but I shutter to think. I found Nicky shaking in his crate so she probably stood in front of him and taunted him the whole time... God I feel so bad. So, we're going to make sure THAT never happens again. I'm glad we can finally get her crate tomorrow!

4.) I had to do NILF/Alpha training with Nicky so I'm prepared should I need to do it with Kai. I purposely plunge my hand into her food bowl when she's eating, just to make sure she knows who's the boss. Kai loves to bite so we're constantly doing the "no bite" thing and holding her up in front of us, below eye level. I think she thinks her name is "Nobite"...lol
Danita says that if I kick Kai out of the bed, that she's going with her...lol I told her that if Kai started any Alpha crap with me, that's it! Both of them will be on the couch!

5.) Should we be putting Kai's food/water down only a certain number of times and taking it up or do we just let her eat/drink freely?

I think that's it. Thanks for everybody's help, and especially yours, Smiley :highfive:

Smiley14
January 6th, 2009, 11:55 PM
I bought two crates, one small one (24x18 for up to approx 20lbs) that I kept in the bedroom for sleeping in that I had old towels in and no potty pads and then a bigger one (42x28 for up to approx 40lbs) I kept in the family room that I used for when I was going to be gone longer than she could hold it. In that one, I put a dog bed to the left of the door and a pee pad to the right of the door, so like the left side was the sleeping side and the right side was the potty side. Now I just use the bigger one for her without any potty pads as she doesn't need them anymore and Jelly is now in the smaller crate with a small dog bed on the left side and a potty pad on the right side. It's a little small for a sleeping space and potty space, but it works! :)

Now, I only bought two crates since I wanted two for the different rooms anyway. I would recommend a life stages type crate (http://www.jbpet.com/Midwest-Lifestages-Folding-Crate,1493.html) that has a puppy divider that you can use to make the inside smaller and then bigger as they grow. That way it will work right now and will still work when full grown, maybe like the one that goes up to 30lbs or the one that goes up to 40lbs to give yourself extra room since you don't know how big she'll get. The puppy divider is kind of annoying to move around, but ideally, you'd want to keep it small as much as possible to keep it all sleeping space to encourage her not to pee in there and then remove the divider and put in a pee pad in the extra space for the times when you'll be gone for more than a few hours. So either move the divider as needed or buy two like I did.

Ideally, you don't want to use potty pads in the crate as you don't want to encourage them to go potty in there at all. But times when you're going to be gone longer than they can hold it, you have no choice. So as much as possible, you want to train her to the crate, meaning, small sleeping space only and giving her frequent breaks so as to set her up for success. Every half hour during the daytime at this age and probably every two hours at night. Some dogs can already hold it overnight at a very young age and some need a few weeks to a month to get to that point. Do you know how often you've been taking her out the past few nights? You will probably have to set your alarm for every few hours for a few more weeks and gradually increase the time to every three hours and then four and then six. I had to take Belle outside every two hours during the night until she was about 10 weeks old and then did three hours for another week and then four and then six and then FINALLY she could make it through the night. That got tiring very quickly, LOL! But hopefully it won't take her quite as long as it did Belle. I know some people's puppies that made it through the night by 8-9 weeks, so you just never know until you learn by trial and error what she can and can't do.

But anyway, use the crate as part of your potty training. Put her in the crate for say a half hour, take her out to go potty immediately, let her play for a half hour or so, another potty break, and then back in the crate for another half hour or so. Repeat that process throughout the day and within a few weeks, she'll be trained not to go in her crate. Instinctively, they want to keep their sleeping area clean, so if you train to that and set her up for success in that, it should be fine. I was worried that the times I had to have a potty pad in there would confuse her, but both of mine have had no problems with it. As they get older, they stop using the potty pad and once it stays dry for several days, you'll know when they don't need it anymore. I think building that instinct to keep the crate dry encourages them to only use it when necessary and to hold it for as long as possible.

As for her piddling continually, that is totally normal actually! At this tiny age, their bladders are not fully developed yet. A lot of times, they haven't even developed the awareness that they're even going yet and have no concept of holding it. That's where using the crate as part of your potty training is a big help as it teaches them to hold it as it's one area they won't want to go in so they start building awareness and start holding it. Not sure if I'm explaining this very well, lol, but just know it's totally normal. She is too young to be able to hold it for more than a half hour to an hour during the day and doesn't yet know the concept of holding it and may not even be aware of going. Their bladder muscles will continue to develop and strengthen as they age. If I remember right, Belle learned to hold it around 10 weeks or so and didn't do the piddling thing anymore. Controlling their water by the way helps with that immensely as well by the way. And then know at this young age, she just plain can't hold it hardly at all. Remember, approximately one hour for every month of age. She's not even two months old yet. She may have been a little dehydrated the first few days so you might not have gotten that at first, but now that she's eating and drinking regularly, you're seeing the normal puppy come out. :) If you're worried, take her to the vet, but it sounds normal so far! What I did is put a baby diaper on Belle until she stopped piddling. Looks ridiculous, but it worked! :)

I feed mine twice a day, morning and night. If they don't eat right away, they don't get a meal at that time. I set it down for about 10 minutes and then take it away. Mine have all learned to eat right away! :) I leave a water bowl out at all times, but with the puppies, I would control how much they drank, nothing for a few hours before going into the crate longer term and then nothing for two hours before bedtime. You need to make sure they're drinking enough of course, but try to have it be scheduled for when you can do the potty breaks as much as possible.

Ok, I think that's everything! :)

Etown_Chick
January 7th, 2009, 12:50 AM
Such a gorgeous dog, how could you not fall in love with her? Bostons are one of my favorite breeds.
The ones we meet at the dog park are extremely fast, don't always listen, show no fear and love to run. I probably couldn't keep up with one but I still love them.
Congratulations!

Mahealani770
January 8th, 2009, 11:57 PM
Thank you so much, Etown. Yes, Kai is definitely a handful. We can barely keep up with her!

Smiley, thanks again for all that info. Danita and I read everything you type and have done everything you've suggested. Thank you so much for the guidance.

The Leash
I'm finding it more and more difficult to take Kai out to potty, without a leash. She will be heading one direction, stop dead in her tracks, and do a total 360 and head another direction within SECONDS! She has ended up in the parking lot and lost under bushes, practically giving me a heart attack. So, we've been letting her drag the leash around inside, which makes correcting her behavior very easy, and putting it on her outside. She's getting better at not resisting it, but she still tugs and pulls the opposite way and practically digs her "heels" in...lol

The Crate
Since we have NO idea how big Kai is going to get, we bought what we thought would be a "big enough" crate. We got this thing home, I put it together and I sware you could fit a mini horse in this thing! It is GI-NORMOUS!! It's about 3 ft tall and 4 ft long!! She looks like a tiny lady bug in that giant thing...lol Thank God it has a divider! We've got only about 1/4 of it in use for her right now. I told Nita that we should take it back, but she thinks we should keep it. It sucks not knowing how big your puppy is gonna be. This thing is taking up a HUGE portion of our bedroom.

Ok, so onto the important stuff. We don't want to do anything to traumatize her, while crate-training her, so I think I need a bit of a refresher. Let me tell you what I've done so far... I put her in the crate yesterday, with all of her toys and a stuffed kong, which she loved. Problem is...the stuff in the kong seems to give Kai A LOT of phlem or something. It sounds like she has a frog in her throat when she licks that stuff out. So, I'm now using treats in it, instead. I now have a whole can of that stuff, which cost us over $7.00.

Anyway, I sat down in front of the crate, door open, played with her IN the crate, and watched her lick on the kong. But as soon as I closed the door and walked away, she freaked out and didn't give a damn about the kong anymore..lol I came back, waited for a second of silence (in between her cries) and then opened the door. She came flying out and did NOT want to go back in...lol She wanted her kong, but she sat outside of the crate, at the opening, trying desperately to figure out how to get her kong, without actually having to step foot in the crate...lol So at that point I felt like, oh great, I've traumatized her already. So I continued to lead her into the crate with her toys and showed her that it should be a happy, fun place. She would play with me for a second or two, and then haul ass outta there again..lol She has yet to go in on her own. Oh, and I only give her the kong when she's IN the crate...but actually, she doesn't care about that thing when the door closes so it doesn't really help.

So, Danita wanted the 'baby' to sleep with us last night and after arguing with her about it, I just let her do it. So I can't report back to you how she did at night, because she hasn't slept in it all night yet. We will be trying it tonight, though...so I'm sure there will be NO sleep for us. Anyway, Kai had to be alone today for about 3.5 hours, so she had to stay in her crate for the first time, alone. Danita had a towel lining one side of the bottom and a pee pee pad on the other half of the crate, her kong, and all of her toys. By the time I got home, she was covered in her own crap and so were ALL of her toys and as far as the towel goes? I had to throw it away. There was no saving it. The pee pee pad barely got hit, but that was just a fluke. So, outside she went and then I had to put her straight into the tub. I had fun cleaning crap out of her toys (and her kong), throwing them in the washer, and scrubbing down the cage, which was caked with crap. UGH!! What a nightmare. It took me hours.

So, putting Kai inside her crate while she's wide awake doesn't work. I play with her on our bed (or wherever) and tire her out until she falls asleep. The thing is, she won't fall asleep unless she's laying on top of one of us. She MUST feel one of us at all times or she'll wake up. This is a huge problem, which I'm aware of. So, I wait until she's good and asleep and then I, very carefully, carry her over to her crate and lay her inside of it. She'll sleep inside the crate for about 15-20 minutes and then she'll wake up and start crying because she has realized where she's at. When she sleeps with us in bed, she'll sleep for HOURS during the day and at night she'll sleep ALL through the night with us.

So, I put her in her cage this evening for just a few minutes and closed the door. She cried the worst cry I've ever heard. It was heartbreaking. I waited for a break in the crying, and then I opened the door and let her out. I try and do this for just a few minutes at a time so I don't freak her out too bad. What do you all do when your puppy cries so horribly when he/she goes in the crate? Am I doing anything wrong? Tonight when we put her in for the whole night, what should we do when she starts crying tonight? How will we know if she's crying to go potty or to just get out? When she cries tonight, is that an automatic "take her outside" deal? I'm imagining us going out in the freezing cold every 15 minutes! UGH!

Thanks for any and all help/advice.

angeldogs
January 9th, 2009, 01:30 AM
She is a super cutie.:cloud9:and looks so peaceful and sweet sleep upside down in your partners arms.

TeriM
January 9th, 2009, 01:42 AM
I'm sure others will disagree but I have actually just taken the brutal training approach. I put the crate right next to my bed where the puppy could see me and then basically "slept" the night with my fingers stuck through the door of the crate. My fingers did get a bit chewed on but within two nights both Riley and Lucy happily went into their crates and waited for their cookies :shrug:. I did get up a few times the first few nights for potty breaks but basically both dogs slept easily all night by 10weeks. I think the potty training thing is easier with big dogs though.

I always left the radio or tv on when leaving them alone in the crate during the day.

I would definately have a leash on when going outside. If you don't want to work on her walking with it yet then just carry her out, let her do her business, and then carry her back in.

TeriM
January 9th, 2009, 01:44 AM
For stuffing the kongs, I personally stay away from the spray stuff they sell. I would use some kibble mixed up with some cheez whiz or peanut butter. You can also try some plain yogurt, banana, frozen meatballs etc. As she gets better at eating the stuff you can try freezing it which takes much longer for them to eat.

Smiley14
January 9th, 2009, 02:09 AM
I'm sure others will disagree but I have actually just taken the brutal training approach. I put the crate right next to my bed where the puppy could see me and then basically "slept" the night with my fingers stuck through the door of the crate. My fingers did get a bit chewed on but within two nights both Riley and Lucy happily went into their crates and waited for their cookies :shrug:. I did get up a few times the first few nights for potty breaks but basically both dogs slept easily all night by 10weeks. I think the potty training thing is easier with big dogs though.

I always left the radio or tv on when leaving them alone in the crate during the day.

I would definately have a leash on when going outside. If you don't want to work on her walking with it yet then just carry her out, let her do her business, and then carry her back in.

This is EXACTLY what I did with both of mine as well. You have to take the tough love approach or they will never get crate trained and will never learn to self-soothe. I had the crate in my bedroom, but they both cried all night..didn't get any sleep at all. So for both, I had to do exactly what Teri said. I put the crate right in front of my nightstand and right next to my bed so they could see me. I kept my fingers poking through for a while until they fell asleep. I then set my alarm for every two hours to take them out for a potty break. And I didn't give in, no matter how much they cried. For Belle, it worked immediately and she didn't cry, as long as she could see me. I left the crate there for a week and then every night, started moving it back a little bit until it was back in its permanent location in my bedroom. With Jelly, she whimpered on and off the first few nights, but then adjusted really quick and I was able to put her crate in the permanent location within a few days. So that method worked great for me with both of them! It's hard because the cries sound AWFUL. But you do have to ignore them, put in earplugs, and let them learn that crying won't get them out. They will adjust eventually! Belle too totally ignored the kong the first few weeks I put her in her kennel during the day and made huge big poopy messes all over the crate/toys/towels/herself. Which is exactly why I used old towels and not an expensive pet bed in the beginning! Target has some cheapy ones for $1 each, so I stocked up on those, LOL! I did wash them as much as possible, but some, I too had to just throw away. For me, that stage was REALLY annoying. I'd say for about a month, every night when I came home from work I had to scrub her kennel, her toys and give her a bath. Drove me NUTS. Then it finally stopped as she was able to hold it longer. At this young age, they just don't really have any control yet unfortunately. It's the worst part of the puppy stage, IMO! I got SO tired of cleaning poop for an hour every night! I never really did figure out a better way to do it, but maybe someone else will have better advice for you. I know other Boston owners that have tried the x-pens, the big crates, the small crates, and the baby-gated room and all had the same issues of coming home to a poopy puppy for a while until the puppy got older. The most ideal would be of course not having to crate them for long periods of time, but when you work and can't stay home all day long every day, you do what you have to do!

angeldogs
January 9th, 2009, 07:39 AM
Crate training is a good thing.we have jags in the living room where he can go to lie down when he wants.we crate him when were not home.and once they feel comfortable it can be come their safe zone.i would throw treats in there for him to get.jag being bigger i have the big crate so i would climb in there with him or fall asleep on the floor with an arm in there or half my body inside sleeping with him as he hated the crate.know when the kids bother him he will go and lay in his crate when he wants to get away from them.

I would keep a leash on her for potty training.praise like crazy when she does go.

Smiley14
January 9th, 2009, 09:46 AM
Oh, I just remembered one other thing that really helped with mine. For some reason, an open roof freaks mine out, but when the crate is covered, they're happy, Belle especially. That was why she hated the x-pen. My vet is the one that suggested to me to cover the crate and it made a huge difference as well. It helps to create the den feeling in there for them. So I just covered it with a blanket on top and three sides and left the front open. I still keep both my crates covered to this day!

rhartjr
January 9th, 2009, 11:07 AM
I remember way back when before I did much with crates, bringing a new puppy home and putting it in a box beside the bed so I could dangle my arm in there with them. It did help them alot.

Mahealani, sounds like you have your work cut out for you with that one. Definitely get her used to the leash now. We've been real lucky with our new pup as far as the crate thing is concerned. The breeders keep a doorless crate in the puppy pen so all the pups slept in a big pile in the crate. So while not crate trained they were used to sleeping in a crate. I built a 3 X 4 ft pen in the kitchen the night before I brought her home. Put newspapers down, put her crate and food and water in the pen. Put a big soft stuffed toy in the crate to make up for her missing littermates. Come bedtime we would just put her in the pen she would go straight to the crate and curl up with the stuffed toy, kept the door open.

Three and a half weeks later took the pen down on Christmas eve cause we needed the floor space for Christmas dinner the next day. From that time on she sleeps at night in the crate door shut. During the day she will go in it and crash when she wants a nap, but only if her fluffy puppy is in there with her. The other day I crated her to the vets office in the truck since I was by myself, when we got back I put her crate back. She decided it was nap time but kept walking in her crate then walking out. Then I noticed I hadn't put her stuffed toy back in the crate when we got back. Put fluffy puppy (that's what she calls it) in the crate she ran in curled up with it and crashed out.

She had the pen from 8 wks to 11 wks, then just the crate she is now 13 wks old. Never messes her crate, has gone up to 6 hrs a couple of days now in it. Crate is in the kitchen not our bedroom so she learned early on that whining did her no good.

Don't know if there's anything here that might help but good luck. Adorable little pup by the way, Bostons are neat dogs.

Here's Katie crashed out with fluffy puppy (about 9 wks old):
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l267/rhartjr/DSCN0817Small.jpg

angeldogs
January 9th, 2009, 11:20 AM
How cute is that last pic sleeping on top of a stuffie:cloud9:

mona_b
January 9th, 2009, 11:51 AM
Awwwww what a sweetie.....:lovestruck::cloud9:

I second what mafiaprincess said...Puppy cataracts do not go away..If left alone, the pup will go blind.

Your best bet is to have Kai see an Ophthalmologist. They are specialists when it comes to the eyes..This way you will know for sure if it's cataracts or not...:)

Luvmypitgirls
January 9th, 2009, 11:51 AM
OHhhhhhhhh Kai:lovestruck:

She is so dang cute:flirt:

Thank you for rescueing her, even if it was from a BYB, I was in the same situation with my rottie Kato. So I understand where you are coming from.

We have friends with Bostons and omg they are so intellegent. Deuce, his male was quick to train and seemed eager to learn. Their female is more docile and laid back.

I hope you and your partner have many many wonderful happy years with Kai, and you never know she may over time have a positive effect on Nicky.

Mahealani770
January 9th, 2009, 02:58 PM
LuvMyPitGirls ~ How are you? How are your pits? I need pics!! lol Thank you so much for understanding the BYB situation. I hate that it had to be that way, but I'd do it again to get an innocent animal out of a bad situation, if I had to. Also, we are SO hoping that Kai has a positive effect on Nicky. She is so fearless though, so I'm keeping a strict eye on her.

mona_b ~ Hey there! LTNS! Kainoa's eyes look 100% better, actually. I'm not sure what in the world the blue spot was but it doesn't seem to be there anymore. Not sure what the vet saw either. However, when we get some money, we are DEFINITELY taking her to the eye doc, just to be sure.

rhartjr ~ OMG, your pup is adorable! I wish I could stick Kai in her crate with a stuffie and everything would be fine...lol....but it's not gonna happen. You are very lucky with your baby. Kai will NOT go to sleep unless she's next to us. So I have to wait until she falls asleep next to me and then try and place her in the crate without waking her up. But as soon as she goes to roll over and wakes up a little bit...that's all she wrote...let the crying begin..ugh!

Smiley ~ Hello friend! Danita and I love you...lol :grouphug: I have covered Kai's crate with blankets so that it's like a dark cave in there. We tried to put her in the crate last night but since I had to get up at the crack of dawn this morning and because she wouldn't stop yelping, we had to put her back in bed with us so I could sleep. Now tonight is a different story. We are scooting her gi-normous crate over to my side of the bed, I'm sticking her in it, and that's that. I remember when I used to have to sleep with my arm in Tsuki's crate to try and pacify her all through the night. I was hoping I wouldn't have to do that with this pup, but I see I'm going to have try it with this one too. So far, sticking my hand in hasn't helped, but I'll stick with it. Thanks so much for all your help. We really appreciate it.

And to everyone esle whom I haven't named, thank you for all of your kind compliments and helpful advice. We really appreciate it. Thank you!

Smiley14
January 10th, 2009, 10:06 PM
I'm dying to know how last night went!!! Did you get any sleep at all? :o

Mahealani770
January 11th, 2009, 12:00 AM
About last night... we wanted sleep too bad to try her in the crate..lol Also, Danita LOVES sleeping with the baby so it's very difficult to get her to let me put Kai in her crate at night. However, I've been putting her in her crate off and on ALL day today and she is doing pretty good! One time she didn't cry at all, at first, then she whimpered a bit and as soon as she stopped I let her out and praised her. The second time I put her in the crate, today, she cried until she realized that it wasn't going to get her anywhere and she fell asleep. The third time, same thing. I think she's doing great for being a newby to the crate. The hard part about crating her all night long is that she won't sleep all the way through, and we've been so sleep-deprived that it's just been easier to put her to bed with us. What's crazy is that she'll sleep 8-10 hours with us, without waking up, but only if we're in the bed with her. Sooooooo....sorry to disappoint with no news about an overnight stay in the crate. At least she'll be getting crate-training while we're gone during the day.
Maybe I can tear the baby away from Danita tonight and try it out...lol

Smiley14
January 11th, 2009, 12:12 AM
About last night... we wanted sleep too bad to try her in the crate..lol Also, Danita LOVES sleeping with the baby so it's very difficult to get her to let me put Kai in her crate at night. However, I've been putting her in her crate off and on ALL day today and she is doing pretty good! One time she didn't cry at all, at first, then she whimpered a bit and as soon as she stopped I let her out and praised her. The second time I put her in the crate, today, she cried until she realized that it wasn't going to get her anywhere and she fell asleep. The third time, same thing. I think she's doing great for being a newby to the crate. The hard part about crating her all night long is that she won't sleep all the way through, and we've been so sleep-deprived that it's just been easier to put her to bed with us. What's crazy is that she'll sleep 8-10 hours with us, without waking up, but only if we're in the bed with her. Sooooooo....sorry to disappoint with no news about an overnight stay in the crate. At least she'll be getting crate-training while we're gone during the day.
Maybe I can tear the baby away from Danita tonight and try it out...lol

You know, everyone may not agree with me, but I don't see any harm in letting her sleep with you at night if that's what works best for you guys. I actually know a lot of people on my Boston Terrier forum that do that from day one as well! I do that now with Belle too, if she wants, and it's just fine for me too. I didn't do it as babies just because I didn't trust them not to pee in the bed, LOL, but that was my only reason. If she's not having accidents in the bed and sleeping well and not bothering either of you, then just keep on doing it that way if you want. There's no hard and fast rule here that it must be done only one way! To me, the most important thing is that she still be crate trained for times when she needs to be and if you do that during the day like you did today, then you should be fine! I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just do what works best for you guys!

It sounds like her crate training went really well though! That's GREAT! It takes them a while to really adjust to it and not whimper anymore, so she's making really good progress! Very cool!

Mahealani770
January 12th, 2009, 10:40 PM
Hi Smiley! Wow, what a relief it is to "hear" you say that it's ok to let Kai sleep with us. It is absolutely the easiest thing for us. She sleeps the ENTIRE time we're in bed with her and she has NEVER peed in the bed. I was afraid that we were doing some kind of damage to her crate-training by not making her sleep in her crate at night.

At what point will I be able to come home and NOT have a puppy covered in *****? lol I don't let her eat 2 hours before she's gonna have to go into the crate and I make sure she does everything she needs to outside, but it does not matter..ugh. She's never in her crate for longer than 3 hours, so I hope this gets better as she gets older.

Hey! I just thought about something, Smiley, I haven't seen your babies! Pics! Pics! :goodvibes:

Smiley14
January 13th, 2009, 02:11 AM
It sounds like you're getting a routine down now, so that's great! I know how important sleep is too, so whatever works is the right thing to do, LOL!

I can't remember exactly how long it was before I stopped coming home to a poopy puppy, but I think it was somewhere around 3 months old. So you've probably got at least a few more weeks of that, I'm afraid. UGH. I know, it's so gross and annoying and really, really tiring. I HATED it. I think I almost cried in relief the first night I came home from a long day at work and didn't have to then clean poop on top of it all, LOL! I can laugh about it now. ;) It's important to keep up the crate training during the day where you're setting her up for success as well. Put her in there for a half hour or so and then take her out for a potty break, play, potty break, crate time, potty break, etc. Create that routine so she learns to sleep in there or play in there on her own, but not potty in there. When you're gone for the three hours, she can't help but go in there. But give her lots of opportunity to NOT go in there as well to build on that instinct. That will help her want to hold it more for when you are gone for longer stretches of time. But they will learn to hold it eventually and their little bodies will develop enough that they physically can hold it as well. It just takes time unfortunately. But I'd guess 12 weeks is probably average for a three hour hold time?

Pics! I have lots of pics! :) Belle is my monstrous Boston, LOL, at 30 pounds and is black and white. She is 18 months old. Jelly is 5 months old and is 12 pounds now. I'm guessing she'll be around 20ish full grown, but that's just a wild guess, could be more, could be less. :) She is a red and white Boston. A red BT is not to breed standard, but I think she's adorable anyway. :) She and Belle are both puppy mill rescues that I adopted.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff58/smileysteph14/BJinpinkfleece028.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff58/smileysteph14/PBJ20Sleeping20056.jpg
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff58/smileysteph14/Snow%20Play/OutsidePlay027.jpg

Mahealani770
January 14th, 2009, 02:37 PM
OMG Smiley, they are absolutely adorable!! I love that pic of Jelly with her head cocked to the side..lol...I love it when dogs do that.

Girl, Kai is driving us NUTS!! lol She is sooooo bad!! She doesn't care if Nicky grolws at her to try and put her in her place...she just keeps going back for more. She doesn't care that we tell her no 100 times, she keeps coming back for more. I leave her leash on her so that we can correct her, it doesn't matter. She is so defiant and willful, it seems that nothing we say or do to correct her sinks in. When she's old enough, we'll take her to obedience school, but what can we do now? Why isn't "no" 1,000 times, working? Did you have these problems with your Bostons?

mona_b
January 14th, 2009, 08:32 PM
I'm glad to hear that her eye is better....:thumbs up

Just keep an eye(pardon the pun..lol) on it.

Oh I forgot to add, she is GORGEOUS...And so tiny..I wouldn't be able to put her down...LOL

:cloud9::lovestruck:

Mahealani770
January 14th, 2009, 10:39 PM
Hi Mona! Thanks...she is adorable and it's very hard to put her down..lol Nicky and Minnie seem absolutely HUGE to us now and very heavy..it's so weird! Nice to see you again!

Smiley14
January 14th, 2009, 10:58 PM
OMG Smiley, they are absolutely adorable!! I love that pic of Jelly with her head cocked to the side..lol...I love it when dogs do that.

Girl, Kai is driving us NUTS!! lol She is sooooo bad!! She doesn't care if Nicky grolws at her to try and put her in her place...she just keeps going back for more. She doesn't care that we tell her no 100 times, she keeps coming back for more. I leave her leash on her so that we can correct her, it doesn't matter. She is so defiant and willful, it seems that nothing we say or do to correct her sinks in. When she's old enough, we'll take her to obedience school, but what can we do now? Why isn't "no" 1,000 times, working? Did you have these problems with your Bostons?

Thank you!!! They are my babies! :)

But oh yes, I also belong to a BT forum and almost every day there is a new member joining who just got a BT puppy and is freaking out because of its antics, LOL! They can be such little hellions! It's a good thing they're so cute. :) A lot of it is personality too. Belle was a MONSTER as a puppy. I thought I had the devil dog on my hands. It took a LOT of time and patience and training to get her to be the sweet dog she is now. She always had her sweet moments of course, but she had her little demon moments too.

I just got Jelly a month ago when she was five months old and so far, she has a very relaxed and laid back personality and is the complete opposite of how Belle was as a puppy. But even she has her occasional moments as well. Much of that is her personality just being different and I think because she is older too.

Belle was the worst the first month and then finally around 12 weeks or so she started to "get it" and started responding to the training and the "no's" and "no bites." I started her in puppy class as soon as she got her third round of puppy shots too, right around 12 weeks as well I think it was. She's smart as a whip now and doesn't use her mouth on people at all. So I have absolutely no problems with her at all. But it was a lot of work to get her there! If you can, read over that post I made about the various "no biting" methods I used for Belle. That REALLY made a big difference in also establishing myself as the alpha. It took a good 2-4 weeks before I even saw any results at all. It was like the light bulb finally went off for her and she started getting it and responding. They can be stubborn little brats, LOL!

If she doesn't respond to the reprimand, then you stop responding to her. The more you respond, even "negatively" is getting her the attention she wants. She is demanding it from you right now, good or bad. Put her down, stand up, turn around so she only has your back, fold your arms, don't make eye contact. She will jump around at your feet and whine and demand attention. Don't give it. Wait until she gives up and then praise and redirect to a toy or something appropriate. You might have to do this literally once every 30 seconds for many times in a row before she stops trying. If she bites, redirect to an appropriate thing to bite on, like a toy. If she continues to bite, do the methods I mentioned before. She has to learn EVERY time she misbehaves that it will not reward her with the attention she wants. Some people find timeouts useful. I did the ignore for 30 seconds thing and the "no bite" methods I mentioned before and then for the times when she was really spazzy and nothing was working, I put her in her crate for a timeout--for both of us. Don't feel bad for taking breaks when you need them too! This is the hard stage and it feels like it lasts forever, but it will get better, she will learn, and next thing you know, she'll be full grown and you'll be missing the tiny puppy she used to be.

I can't tell you how many times during those first few weeks I wanted to cry and give up, to return her. Sometimes I couldn't even find her cute, I was so tired and worn out and frustrated. Now I look back at her baby pics and can hardly remember the bad and miss when she was so tiny! But I wouldn't go back to those days, LOL! Puppies are wonderful and so adorably cute and tiny, they steal your heart. I think that must be part of the plan, otherwise we wouldn't make it. ;) When I hear about people that have one of the perfect little mellow, laid back ones, I feel like screaming, "Not Fair! I went through hell!" LOL! Fortunately there is a lot of good that goes with the hard parts as well and in the big picture, it's really only a month or so out of your life. It seems like forever in the moment, but I kept reminding myself it was short-term and would get better. And it did! I LOVE watching them experience all their first "firsts" in life.

Hang in there, and keep up what you are doing. It feels fruitless right now, but it does work. The first month is the hardest, especially with the wild ones like Belle or like Kai. I promise, it does get easier and to the point where you feel like you can actually ENJOY your puppy all the time. :)

Three months or around 12 weeks for me was the magic age when everything suddenly got so much easier. She wasn't fully potty trained and still had a lot of attitude, but she stopped the biting and growling and the fighting me, she finally showed me respect, and she was able to hold it for four hours in her kennel so I didn't have to spend an hour every night after work cleaning poop. I was able to sleep through the night, have a clean puppy and a clean kennel, and actually play with her and spend time with her without fear or pain. Life suddenly felt normal again! LOL!

Oh, and try to do the positive reinforcement as much as possible as well, so she's not only hearing just the "no's" all the time. I actually use "yes," with a treat when she's being good, even if she's just playing nicely with a toy. Reward the good as much as you can! And then instead of "no," I use a sharp, "UH-UH" when it's not something good. For some reason, a sharp "UH" sound is more effective than a no that they soon tune out. In training, you'll also want to save the "NO" for really serious things, like running away from you and towards traffic. So I used "yes," "Uh-uh," and "No bite" along with her name constantly those first few weeks. That and the ignore so as not to reward bad behavior (remember ANY attention, good or bad, is rewarding them), the time-outs, and the no-bite/establishing alpha methods all combined to work really well for me. It just took a good month to really all be completely effective. Time and patience unfortunately. So many times I wished I had a fast-forward button, LOL! And now I miss those days! :rolleyes:

mona_b
January 15th, 2009, 08:31 PM
Nicky and Minnie seem absolutely HUGE to us now

I bet..LOL.

How have they been with Kai around?

Good to see you too....:)

Dog Dancer
January 15th, 2009, 09:35 PM
Mahealani, Kai is gorgeous, just too cute. My lab slept with us as a pup. She had a crate, and used it when needed, but mostly slept in the bed. She'd go all night that way. It worked. By the way, you look great, you said you lost 60 lbs, that's amazing! Don't worry about the rest it will go gradually. Congrats on the new pup, have patience it will all work out, even Nicky will come to an agreement at some point in time.

Mahealani770
January 17th, 2009, 12:40 AM
Originally Posted by: Smiley
Belle was the worst the first month and then finally around 12 weeks or so she started to "get it" and started responding to the training and the "no's" and "no bites." I started her in puppy class as soon as she got her third round of puppy shots too, right around 12 weeks as well I think it was. She's smart as a whip now and doesn't use her mouth on people at all. So I have absolutely no problems with her at all. But it was a lot of work to get her there! If you can, read over that post I made about the various "no biting" methods I used for Belle. That REALLY made a big difference in also establishing myself as the alpha. It took a good 2-4 weeks before I even saw any results at all. It was like the light bulb finally went off for her and she started getting it and responding. They can be stubborn little brats, LOL!

Danita and I are sooo relieved to see this entire post, but I'm just going to touch on this part of your post real quick. Kai is so defiant that we refer to her as "satan" sometimes. We tell her "no bite" 100 times. We tell her "no" 100 times. And now we're implementing that "uh uh" thing you told us about.

1.) She steals food from the cat's dish and Nicky's and does it in such a sneaky way, that let's us know that she knows she's not supposed to do it, but it's as if she does it just to see if she can get away with it...if that makes sense. We don't understand why she's not interested in her own food anymore. This makes it very difficult to do the 10-minute thing where we put her food down and then take it up. She doesn't want her own food anymore as it is, so if we take her food up, she definitely goes to the other animal's bowls. We're not real sure what's going on here.

2.) We leave her leash on her ALL the time, while she's down on the ground, so that we can correct her. We literally have to follow her around because she needs correcting about every 15 seconds. When she starts to go towards Nicky, we step on the leash and tell her "no" or "leave him"...same thing for when she goes after Minnie.

3.) Kai LOVES to bite. We can't walk around without her biting our feet, slippers, and the bottom of our pant legs WHILE we're walking OR standing still. The more we say "no bite" or "no", the longer she hangs on with her teeth. We try and lead her away from our feet/pant legs/slippers, by her leash, she still will NOT let go, so at that point we have to put our fingers in her mouth to try and release her grip. She growls during this "biting session" as well. So how do we "not respond" to this behavior or "walk away" from it when she has our clothing in her mouth? She seems to not be listening or maybe she just doesn't care. We don't know. Also, she hasn't stopped the "bitey face" thing, either. You said it took your baby about a good month before things "clicked"? Girl, we are counting DOWN!!! lol
I can't tell you how many times during those first few weeks I wanted to cry and give up, to return her. Sometimes I couldn't even find her cute, I was so tired and worn out and frustrated.

OMG...we are SO glad you said this. We have been so stressed out with her antics. I have even broken down and cried! We said to each other, "Why do we have the devil dog?" lol So glad to know that we aren't the only ones who are going/have gone through hell with a puppy :yell:

Hang in there, and keep up what you are doing. It feels fruitless right now, but it does work. The first month is the hardest, especially with the wild ones like Belle or like Kai. I promise, it does get easier and to the point where you feel like you can actually ENJOY your puppy all the time.


Thanks Smiley, we really needed these words because we ARE going through hell. Danita and I are arguing, stressed out, and tired as hell with Kai here. Our poor Minnie and Nicky are being tormented... we are wondering what in the hell we've done. But we love her :lovestruck: and we're doing our best to keep the stress level down for the other furkids.
Originally Posted by: Mona_b
How have they been with Kai around?

Oh lord.... Nicky is NOT a happy camper. All Kai has to do is LOOK in his direction and he growls...so we try to keep her completely away from him. Minnie wants a playmate but isn't sure if Kai is the one...lol Kai chases her all over the house until she escapes to the top of her kitty tree. Minnie just bats at her and runs, but Nicky is a cranky little bugger and isn't having ANY of it! :evil:

Originally Posted by: Dog Dancer

Hey there! So good to see you and thanks for your very kind compliments. Losing weight is the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life... it sucks!

Yeah, Kai sleeping in bed with us is the only way we get sleep and it works, so as long as she doesn't start thinking she's part of the Alpha team, she can stay, but I told Danita that she has ONE time to act like she's running things and then she's IN HER CRATE AT NIGHT! lol I'm glad to see that someone else let their pup sleep with them. Wow, you have a lab and I'm complaining! lol Was your lab a handful as a puppy?

Smiley14
January 17th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Oh, I feel so bad for you! It sounds EXACTLY how Belle was and how I was feeling during it all as well! You'll feel like you're getting nowhere and then suddenly, one day, you'll notice a little progress and then it will finally get better and better.

1. She can't have access to the other's food. I had to move my cat's food up high where the dogs couldn't reach it. I put mine on top of the washing machine. And then none of the dogs could free feed, otherwise they'd eat each other's food or one would eat all of their food. So for me, I feed all at the same time. They both get their bowls for 10 minutes and then both go up. You can do that however you want though. You could try feeding them while they're crated, feeding in separate rooms, etc. Just do what works for you! But with Kai eating their food, you won't be able to free feed anymore or it needs to be in a place out of reach to her. Behind a baby gate, etc. Limit her world right now. She only gains freedom once she's earned it. Dogs LOVE cat food. It's like candy. If she's filling up on their food, she won't want to eat her food and won't NEED to eat her food. She'll eat her own food when there is no other food around for her to fill up on.

2. It's really annoying, but leash her right to you. Get a long leash and tie it around your waist. Again, her world needs to be limited right now. Luckily, this part doesn't usually last too long! About a few weeks or so until she learns the rules of the house. It's partly for potty training and partly so you can keep an eye on her and so you can work with her so she'll learn faster. This was my routine:
Crate for 1/2 hour so I could have my own time and so she learns how to be crated
Potty break
Play time for 1/2 hour, leashed to me on a long line so she can't wander off too far. Use this time to play with her and use the "No-Bite" methods. Again for me, I would try ignoring her first. If/when ignore doesn't work and she's biting you, lunging at your hands or feet or clothes, pick her up under the arm pits, hold her out in front of you so she's dangling and hold her just below eye level. Make eye contact while saying "No bite." Wait for her to go limp and stop fighting. If she doesn't go limp even after a minute and still fights you, she goes back in her crate right away for a cooling off time for a few minutes. If she goes limp, then she gets to play again. Repeat over and over again during your set play time. You will have to repeat it like every 15 seconds for a few weeks sometimes before you see any progress.
If she is biting your fingers, shove your hand actually further into her mouth while saying "No bite", hold until she stops, pull it out, and then offer it to her again. She should lick it as a sign of submission. If they show submission by going limp or by licking your hand, then praise and give a toy again or start playing with them again. Do this dedicated session for about a half hour.
Potty break.
Crate time for 1/2 hour so you again get a break and she learns crate time.
Potty break.
Repeat play session.

I repeated this cycle throughout the day as much as I could for the first few weeks and that really established the routine. As she responded and learned, she gained more freedom. Gaining freedom comes as they learn where it's okay to potty, and as they learn to play nicely. In your case, during the play sessions, you can also introduce Nicky and the cat. Have her on leash, hold her while they sniff her, let her sniff them back. As soon as she gets inappropriate, pull her back with a sharp, "UH-UH." It might be helpful to post about that on a new thread as well so others more experienced can give you advice on this too. But for me, I limited their interaction by limiting her freedom and any and all interaction that did occur was planned and controlled. That seemed to help them all adjust better. By the time she gained her freedom, they pretty much ignored each other or played nicely together.

3. In this case, ignoring is not working for you. That's EXACTLY how Belle was too. Do NOT let her hang onto you like that. She is still interacting with you, forcing contact and winning the battle. The second she does that, forget the ignore tactic and try another. Pull her off and try the other two methods I mentioned above. Dangling when she's biting your feet or clothing and the hand method when biting at your hand. If she refuses to submit, back into her crate she goes for a cooling off period. It only needs to be for a few minutes. Or sometimes putting her on her side in a submissive position until she stops fighting you. You just want her to get to a point where you feel her take a deep breath and redirects herself. And yep, you'll have to do it over and over and over and over again. All day long. For a few weeks at least. Sometimes longer, sometimes less. But if you're consistent, she will get the point eventually and learn her way is not working. Because right now, it IS working for her. Hanging off you is still interaction and still attention and she thrives on that, even if it's negative. She is testing the waters and thinks she can be top dog. The consistent use of methods like these teach her that YOU are top dog and that she needs to respect that. They really do pick it up pretty quickly. But when they don't like it, they will test it and you over and over again until they finally give up. So you do it at first to teach her, and then you keep it up to win the battle of wills. :)
And I know what it feels like to have a demon puppy. It is HARD. Keep up these methods until you can get her into a training class as soon as possible. And I promise, it will get better! Belle is a perfect angel now, but I never would have guessed it was possible! She was a snarling, growling, manipulative, MEAN little puppy! UGH. I'm so glad that Jelly is the complete opposite. She's very laid back and very soft mouthed. Thank goodness! So not all Boston's are that way. But some are, unfortunately, as can be any puppy. You just have to outlast them! Take turns with each other too so you can get a break. You NEED breaks to keep yourself from losing your mind! :) Crate her and leave the house for a few hours and go to a store or to a movie together. It really helps keep your sanity and bring some semblance of normal back to your routine. The more and more you can get back to normal, the easier and better it will get.

One final thing I learned the hard way too is that dogs utterly and completely sense your emotions. They KNOW when you're frustrated and upset and frazzled. The more you can keep yourself calm, the more she will respond to you as well. For dogs, giving off a sense of calmness is half the battle for authority. They can feel the tension in your body, even through the leash as you're holding it and they can feed off that. As hard as it is, stay calm. When you can't anymore, that's when you crate her for a break. They respect and respond to calmness as a part of leadership and authority. I had heard that and I had read it, but until I really learned it and saw it first hand, I hadn't truly understood it. I've been through so many training classes over the last five years between my three dogs. And that is the most important thing I've learned. It's the secret to why a dog will respond to a trainer and not the owner or to another experienced owner. They thrive off it. So as hard as it is, try to remember that as well!

Smiley14
January 17th, 2009, 10:32 PM
Ok, I tried to demonstrate the No Bite technique of putting your hand actually further in their mouths, but the dogs were sleeping and not cooperating. So that didn't turn out so well, LOL! But here is it anyway. Maybe it will make you laugh. :)

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff58/smileysteph14/?action=view&current=VID00001.flv

Mahealani770
January 18th, 2009, 01:29 AM
OMG Smiley, that was soooo sweet of you to try and show us a demonstration...lol....we really appreciated that. Danita is IN LOVE with Jelly..lol...especially her coloring. Nita wants me to tell you that Jelly is the reason why our next dog will be a brown/red BT...lol

Thanks again for your very helpful instruction. It is so hard to create the "set times" to do things, but we are going to try very hard. We'll start tomorrow since we're both off of work. And I'm referring to the play, potty, crate, potty, play schedule.

We are CONSTANTLY holding Kai under her armpits and saying "no bite", waiting for her to go limp, and then letting her down. She ALWAYS looks away...is that a good sign? She usually goes right back to biting (ugh) but when we hold her up, she does look away.

Kai has started something new today. She got into Minnie's cat box MULTIPLE times and came out with cat ***** in her mouth every time!!!:yuck:
God, does this mean we have a cat ***** eater on our hands???!!?? So, I guess this is where the umbilical method comes in. We definitely have to start limiting her freedom more. It's just so difficult to keep her attached to one of us at all times, yanno? Oh well, it has to be done!

Minnie and Nicky both free-feed so keeping Kai out of their food bowls is going to be challenging. I already have Kai's food/water bowls in her crate to try and make it a "happy" place, so maybe I'll just close the door when I put her food down to eat and see how that goes.

We got "the baby" her own bed today while we were at PetCo, so trying to get her to lay in it has been difficult. I've been putting her toys and treats in it throughout the day but she just takes them and plays with them elsewhere. When she fell asleep in our bed, I gently laid her in her new bed so that she would at least wake up in it. She is so attached to our bed that I'm really keeping a close eye on her personality to see if she tries to pull that alpha crap cuz I'm not having it, if she does try it. Soooo, I'm hoping to eventually get her used to her own bed to play in and take little catnaps in.

We so badly didn't want to have to do the "shove your hand further in her mouth" technique, but the armpit holding thing doesn't seem to be phasing her. So... we will be implementing the fingers-in-the-mouth thing tomorrow.

We took Kai for the remainder of her first-round shots today and picked up some warm clothing for her (along with her new bed). I'm going to go post them in the "pictures" forum so that everyone can see them, so if you get a chance, go check her out! lol Thanks so much for your time, effort, help, advice, and video, Smiley..lol..we appreciate you so much :grouphug: And gosh we loved seeing your babies! :goodvibes:

Smiley14
January 18th, 2009, 06:54 PM
Oh, no problem! I just wish it had turned out, LOL! Apparently when they're sleeping, they are OUT! :laughing: I love Jelly's coloring too! Red BT's are not to breed standard, but I don't care! I think they're beautiful! :)

It sounds like you guys are doing everything right, so at this point, I'd say just keep it up! It's hard and frustrating right now, but keep it up as much as you can so you can outwin her, LOL! It really doesn't take too long, so hopefully it's not too much longer!

Oh, and yes, I totally forgot to mention that part! You DO want them to not hold eye contact and to look away! So that's great she's looking away from you! That is a sign of submission, which is exactly the purpose of holding her that way. Awesome! So she gets it, but now she's testing you. Stay consistent as much as you can! I know you can't always keep such a strict schedule or keep her leashed to you, I couldn't do it all the time either. But do it as much as you can and then always do the "no bite" methods for sure, those are the big ones to stay consistent on right now. If you google for Bite Inhibition, you'll find some great information on it. This is the time when they are learning and testing bite inhibition since she wasn't with her Mom long enough to learn it that way. She's testing her new boundaries in her new home too and WILL learn the right behaviors. Hang in there!!!!


UGH. She's a cat poop eater, both of mine were too! :( My cat just died a few months ago, but I had the worst struggle with that as well. When Billy was still healthy, I was able to put his litter box up high so they couldn't reach it. My Dad had built me a shelf in the laundry room that was low enough for the cat to jump up onto, but high enough for the dogs not to reach. But when he got sick and couldn't jump anymore, I had to put it on the ground. I ended up finding a baby gate that was wide enough for the cat to fit through, but small enough for the dog not to fit. I put it across the laundry room doorway and kept the litter and cat food behind there. That also gave the cat his own space away from the dogs too, so it worked well. Cat poop isn't healthy for dogs to eat, so you do want to keep her out of there.

Funny you mention the dog bed! For some reason, Belle totally ignored doggie beds until she was maybe 5 months old. Then she started laying in them and now she lays in them all the time. Jelly was 5 months when I got her, and she will sometimes lay in them, but not very much. I don't know if that's typical or not, but that's how both of mine were at least. :) I just kept it out and she eventually started using it. :)

I'm off to check out your pics now! :)

Mahealani770
January 18th, 2009, 07:24 PM
Hey there Smiley...

Of course, Kai has been biting fingers all day and even my nose...god that hurts...so I tried shoving my fingers further back in her mouth but she just kept chewing until I couldn't take it anymore and had to pull my hand out...lol...am I doing it the wrong way? You just push whatever part of your finger or hand that she has in her mouth, further back right? And do I say anything to her while I'm pushing my fingers in her mouth? "No bite", maybe?
So, then I held her up in front of me and said "no bite" and when that didn't work, I put her down. She was up on the bed with me. Danita comes in and says, "Now remember what Smiley said...put her down and stop the play when she bites you!" lol

Since Danita works second shift all week long, I'm the one who gets to come home and clean the poopy puppy and cage :yuck: So, we were out running errands today (gone for about 3 hours) and what do we come home to? You got it! A HUGE poopy mess. But do you think I even saw it? Nope! Danita took care of it! lol So she got to experience what I go through 5 times a week. So while she was on her hands and knees, holding her breath and scrubbing, I just kept saying to her, "5 days a week... no help... poopy puppy... ***** everywhere.... no help from you cuz you're at work... how does it feel? Now you know what I go through..." lol She TOTALLY understands why I sound so stressed out now, when she calls me during a clean-up session...lol :wall:

I'm gonna go post some pics of Minnie and Nicky so they don't feel left out :goodvibes:

Thanks again!!

Smiley14
January 18th, 2009, 10:04 PM
Yeah, probably another month or so of poopy puppy clean-up unfortunately. At 9 weeks old, she can hold it for about two hours at the most. But she's slowly getting there! This is when you wish you could fast forward time a little bit. :)

Hmm, well, maybe that method won't work for you then, LOL. It was the one that worked best for me, but of course every dog is different! What I did was turn my hand sideways and push it back into their mouth to the base of their gums. So you're not hurting them, but they can't bite you in that position either. I would do that, hold it for maybe 20 seconds and say "UH-UH, NO BITE," very calmly, but firmly. Then I'd pull my hand back and offer it again. She always licked it every time, which is the show of submission you want to see. If it's not working for you, then keep trying the other methods. Sounds like she responds to dangling as she is looking away from you. It might not FEEL like she's responding when you have to do it every 10 seconds, literally, but she is and she will stop testing it as frequently. This part takes a few weeks as well unfortunately. Here are some links I had saved last year when I was trying to do this with Belle and found myself in tears one too many nights! :) I was convinced she was aggressive and it would never get better. As you saw in the really bad video, she was not biting my hand. Yay! That was hard won, LOL!

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/bite2.html

http://www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETTIPS/DogTip_BiteInhibition.php

http://www.crickethollowfarm.com/biteinhib.htm

Mahealani770
January 18th, 2009, 11:29 PM
Thank you Smiley! We're gonna go look at the links right now and let you know how it goes. Have a good evening!! Kisses to Belle and Jelly :lovestruck:

P.S. - As far as a red Boston not being in line with the "breed standard"...we want a red one with BLUE eyes or a black and white one with one blue eye and one brown eye. We think they are SO gorgeous. Now that's WAY out of the "standard"..lol..but who cares!

Mahealani770
February 4th, 2009, 11:06 PM
Hi everyone!

Well, Kainoa is now 11 weeks (?) old and bad as all hell. She needs obedience training YESTERDAY!!

Anywho... most of you know that our Pomeranian, Nicky, has wanted NOTHING to do with Kai. He's very mean to her and snaps at her constantly. She pesters him to play so we try and keep her away from him so that he can have as stress-free of a life as possible, but she will NOT stop going at him. We pull Kai away from Nicky over and over again and say "No" or "settle" but that hasn't worked. We try rolling her on her side and holding her there until she stops struggling (takes about 5 seconds)...still she continues. The same goes for her biting...no matter what we do, she will not stop. This is not why I'm posting though...

Tonight Kai's "play" with Nicky was different. She would paw at his face like normal to get his attention, but this time she would immediately put her butt in his face after pawing at him. She did this over and over again until he finally mounted her. I was sick. I yelled and he got off of her but I'm not sure what to think. She has never done that before....sticking her rearend in his face over and over like that. She's only 11 weeks! What's going on here? lol She's my baby! I can't have this!:sad: Is this some kind of "sexual play" already, at her young age?

By the way... Nicky is fixed. How old does Kai need to be before we can get her spayed?

Dog Dancer
February 4th, 2009, 11:54 PM
Hi Mahealani, sorry to hear that Nicky still hasn't decided to accept Kai. Does Nicky sleep in the bed with you guys as well as Kai, or is it just Kai (assuming she's still sleeping there)? If it's just Kai it probably only adds to his jealousy. As for their new "play" - hmmm I don't think it would be that uncommon really, but certainly not what we'd want to encourage. She may have just figured out that this way he pays attention to her. I'm sorry I can't offer advice on this for you, I've always had two female dogs and never had an issue with jealousy. I'm sure somebody will come along and give you some good advice. Sorry I just got back in this thread, you asked if my lab was a handful as a pup - made me laugh - hell yes!! She's 8 now and still a handful. I've never had a dog that I couldn't get to listen to every command the way this dog ignores me. My husband just raises his voice so slightly and gives her heck in Italian and she listens to him instantly. Me, her mom who raised her for the first four years of her life, she ignores still (unless I have a cookie). I even tried giving her heck in Italian - didn't work. So yeah, she was a total handful as a pup, but like you said so darn loveable we couldn't send her back to the pound... Good luck to you with this new and not so pleasant entertainment. Oh sorry, some people get their dogs spayed quite young, but six months is about average. If you plan on having her tattooed that would be the time to do it. And no, I don't mean like a butterfly on her nose or anything in case you just got some funky idea - that's not what I meant okay! (sorry had to say that - just having fun with you)

Mahealani770
February 5th, 2009, 12:40 PM
Awe, thanks Dog Dancer.... you're sweet. To answer your question, Nicky does not sleep in our bed because he never has wanted to. He doesn't even like to lay on the bed for longer than a few minutes at a time :shrug: