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Allergic to all foods - any suggestions???

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 12:00 PM
Bobby has tested (using kinesiology) allergic to all foods - he has now reacted to the Purina Hypoallergenic food and to a Vegetarian Food I recently tried.

Does anyone have any suggestions???

We have tried raw, grain free kibble, kibble with grain, low protein kibble, high protein kibble, hypoallergenic foods (several), vegetarian, I cooked for him, and probably a few more that I don't remember - and now I'm really at my wits end on what to do.

Frenchy
December 28th, 2008, 12:10 PM
Holy crap Jan , there's no more food left :eek:

He's not good on raw ? :confused: I'm guessing you tried fish formulas (Fromm has many of them)

Goldens4Ever
December 28th, 2008, 12:35 PM
.....
We have tried raw, grain free kibble, kibble with grain, low protein kibble, high protein kibble, hypoallergenic foods (several), vegetarian, I cooked for him, and probably a few more that I don't remember - and now I'm really at my wits end on what to do.

When you say he's allergic to "all foods," are you referring to all protein sources, all grain sources, all vegetables, etc.? He's allergic to bison, elk, duck, goose, pheasant, chicken, beef, fish, carrots, broccoli, apples, etc.? EVERYTHING? That is not possible.

How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.

It takes a lot of time (for some dogs) to work those allergens out of the body. AND, because you were feeding a commercial food prior to introducing noncommercial foods, your dog was likely experiencing detoxification, which can increase any symptoms they're experiencing.

Please refer to the article on this page regarding detoxification & it should clear things up a bit (it is in the middle):

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html

Khari
December 28th, 2008, 12:40 PM
We have tried raw

What were you feeding him when feeding raw? This could make a huge difference...

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 01:43 PM
Holy crap Jan , there's no more food left :eek:

He's not good on raw ? :confused: I'm guessing you tried fish formulas (Fromm has many of them)

Yup - tried the fish - in kibble and fresh and cooked - no go..

Goldens4Ever
December 28th, 2008, 01:48 PM
When you say he's allergic to "all foods," are you referring to all protein sources, all grain sources, all vegetables, etc.? He's allergic to bison, elk, duck, goose, pheasant, chicken, beef, fish, carrots, broccoli, apples, etc.? EVERYTHING? That is not possible. Also, all fish are different, so when you say he's "allergic to fish," are you referring to all of them: sardines, white fish, cod, salmon, halibut, perch, etc.?

How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.

It takes a lot of time (for some dogs) to work those allergens out of the body. AND, because you were feeding a commercial food prior to introducing noncommercial foods, your dog was likely experiencing detoxification, which can increase any symptoms they're experiencing.

Please refer to the article on this page regarding detoxification & it should clear things up a bit (it is in the middle):

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html

BeagleMum
December 28th, 2008, 01:50 PM
When you gut him tested, what was he allergic to? I know that Spencer is allergic to chicken in kibble and a lot of dogs are much more sensitive than he is. A lot of the fish based foods tend to have chicken fat in them as well. Usually when your dog reacts to multiple kibbles, people will say to go RAW (not that it is a bad thing, just some owners don't feel comfortable feeding RAW). You need to compare what has been in each of the foods you are feeding and see if there are any similarities. What are his reactions to the food when you feed it?

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 01:51 PM
When you say he's allergic to "all foods," are you referring to all protein sources, all grain sources, all vegetables, etc.? He's allergic to bison, elk, duck, goose, pheasant, chicken, beef, fish, carrots, broccoli, apples, etc.? EVERYTHING? That is not possible.

How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.

It takes a lot of time (for some dogs) to work those allergens out of the body. AND, because you were feeding a commercial food prior to introducing noncommercial foods, your dog was likely experiencing detoxification, which can increase any symptoms they're experiencing.

Please refer to the article on this page regarding detoxification & it should clear things up a bit (it is in the middle):

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html

Thanks for the article - Bobby has experienced most of the "symptoms" mentioned - except vomiting but regardless, he gets so bad that there is no way I can leave him on a food to see if he will eventually cleanse. His auto-immune system is, according to the vet, totally shot - if that helps any.

His reaction to foods is first his skin gets an ugly red/purple colour then small sores develop - they bleed. It progresses to his body to where he will stagger and fall. His eyesight is going and when he is in a generally "bad" state, it's worse.

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 01:52 PM
What were you feeding him when feeding raw? This could make a huge difference...

We tried chicken, bison, goat, beef - and possibly more (can't remember now but I do know I tried everything they had at the time). Veggies were mixed in with it too.

Goldens4Ever
December 28th, 2008, 02:04 PM
We tried chicken, bison, goat, beef - and possibly more (can't remember now but I do know I tried everything they had at the time). ....

How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 02:15 PM
How much time has elapsed between each type of food you've fed?? Please note that when dog consumes something they're 'allergic' to, those allergens can remain in their system for 3-6 months thereafter. So, if you're switching between foods within a short amount of time, it would appear that they're allergic to everything because they're still reacting to what was fed previously, or before that, or before that, etc.

The time has depended on his reaction to a new food. He was fine with my cooking his food for about 6 months - and that's the longest he was ever on any food - others have been 1 month or less, some 2 months. I did try going back to a food previously tried - after about a 6 month lapse - nope - he reacted to it almost immediately - within a day or two.

totallyhip
December 28th, 2008, 02:30 PM
Have you tried each food protein seperately?

We feed raw and have been doing so for many years. When we first started Luke on raw he was doing great. Then he developed allergies about a year later. We did not take him for testing at the vet. What we did was an elimination diet. This I had to do personally for myself too in the past. Huge pain in the ass but gotta be done:rolleyes:

We fed beef (just plain beef...nothing else) for about 2 to 3 months and there was no reaction. Then we fed chicken (again just plain chicken) for about 1 month and he had a reaction. So we went back to beef for another month or so till his reactions were completely gone. Then we tried turkey for another month and he had a reaction. Gone back to beef for another month till it cleared up and tried pork for 2 to 3 months with no reaction. Then we went to lamb for another 2 to 3 months with no reaction. And with each food we just kept doing the same thing. So it was a LONG process but so worth it. But you have to stick to just 1 food nothing else for a while and then you know you can eliminate that one food. Hope that makes sense:)
Now we know what he is allergic to...... all poultry.

Honestly there has to be something your poor little baby can eat. :shrug:
I have heard that sometimes dogs will develop reactions to certain foods because they eat too much of it. Not sure if that is true or not???
Good luck. I know its tough road but once you get it figured out your dog will feel so much better :)

Goldens4Ever
December 28th, 2008, 02:32 PM
When dealing with allergies, regardless if they're food or environmentally related, it is essential to provide routine grooming as well (which you may already do). I noticed that you have Golden Retrievers, which have a lot of grooming demands. It is absolutely vital that they get shampooed with an appropriate product to routinely cleanse the skin, get their ears cleaned regularly with an appropriate product, & get their ears, paws, skin, & bottoms trimmed routinely. Everything goes hand-in-hand like a delicate circle. If one area is lacking, then it will effect everything else within the circle.

For example, allergies can lead to yeasty ear infections. If the ears are not routinely kept cleaned & the inner ear hair is not kept trimmed, it will effect the impact of the nutritional regimen. The same applies to their skin, paws, etc.

Please refer to this article, which provides a detailed explanation of the specific grooming needs of many dogs:

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html

Khari
December 28th, 2008, 02:47 PM
Quoted by BeagleMum
Usually when your dog reacts to multiple kibbles, people will say to go RAW (not that it is a bad thing, just some owners don't feel comfortable feeding RAW).

Most people (me included) will recommend Raw because you can stick to one type of meat with no fillers or extra ingrdients. Kibble has many different fillers, meats, grains, rice, corn, veggies that many pets are allergic to. So it is really hard to eliminate the source your pet is allergic to.

If your dog is having these types of allergic reactions you will have to try one meat at a time as recommended above. Eliminate one by one. No vegetables No nothing except for meat/bone/organs from the same meat source.

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 03:27 PM
When dealing with allergies, regardless if they're food or environmentally related, it is essential to provide routine grooming as well (which you may already do). I noticed that you have Golden Retrievers, which have a lot of grooming demands. It is absolutely vital that they get shampooed with an appropriate product to routinely cleanse the skin, get their ears cleaned regularly with an appropriate product, & get their ears, paws, skin, & bottoms trimmed routinely. Everything goes hand-in-hand like a delicate circle. If one area is lacking, then it will effect everything else within the circle.

For example, allergies can lead to yeasty ear infections. If the ears are not routinely kept cleaned & the inner ear hair is not kept trimmed, it will effect the impact of the nutritional regimen. The same applies to their skin, paws, etc.

Please refer to this article, which provides a detailed explanation of the specific grooming needs of many dogs:

http://heavenlyblessingsconsulting.com/MY_ARTICLES.html

Both Bobby and Amber get a good grooming at least every second day - I use a bristle brush, a steel comb, a shedding comb and a regular hair brush to finish off. They both get pedicures every 4 weeks at which time they get clipped by the groomer. I do their ears with Coconut Oil whenever needed - and it isn't very often. So I would say they are well groomed. Neither dog has had an ear infection - a couple of times there has been was buildup but it's taken off pretty quick so it doesn't get a chance to fester into a real infection. I don't routinely shampoo them - I don't believe in shampooing animals unless it is absolutely necessary because it removes the natural oils in their hair which they need for protection. Other than that, I'd say they are reasonably well taken care of in that department.

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 03:30 PM
Most people (me included) will recommend Raw because you can stick to one type of meat with no fillers or extra ingrdients. Kibble has many different fillers, meats, grains, rice, corn, veggies that many pets are allergic to. So it is really hard to eliminate the source your pet is allergic to.

If your dog is having these types of allergic reactions you will have to try one meat at a time as recommended above. Eliminate one by one. No vegetables No nothing except for meat/bone/organs from the same meat source.

I did try the elimination routine when we tried Raw but he had diarrhea so bad on all raw meats that I stopped. This was when he was a puppy. I really can't remember how long he was on each one but I do remember that both of us were absolutely miserable with his diarrhea - he was squirting liquid and had to go all the time - day and night. It wasn't a nice time for time for either of us..

mummummum
December 28th, 2008, 03:32 PM
His reaction to foods is first his skin gets an ugly red/purple colour then small sores develop - they bleed. It progresses to his body to where he will stagger and fall. His eyesight is going and when he is in a generally "bad" state, it's worse.

Unless he is suffering from severe, life-threatening malnutrition, a food allergy/ sensitivity should have no effect on his muscle strength, balance or his eyesight. Is there something else going on ?

Goldens4Ever
December 28th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Both Bobby and Amber get a good grooming at least every second day - I use a bristle brush, a steel comb, a shedding comb and a regular hair brush to finish off. They both get pedicures every 4 weeks at which time they get clipped by the groomer. I do their ears with Coconut Oil whenever needed - and it isn't very often. So I would say they are well groomed. Neither dog has had an ear infection - a couple of times there has been was buildup but it's taken off pretty quick so it doesn't get a chance to fester into a real infection. I don't routinely shampoo them - I don't believe in shampooing animals unless it is absolutely necessary because it removes the natural oils in their hair which they need for protection. Other than that, I'd say they are reasonably well taken care of in that department.

Sounds like you do a great job. But please note that coconut oil is not an ear cleaner. To clean ears, the cleaner needs to be poured into the ear & rubbed around (this is called flushing). If not done in this fashion, the fluid is unable to drain down into the horizontal canal & the ear drum sits at the base of the horizontal canal.

Most shampoo products strip the natural oils from their skin; however, others actually contain jojoba oil, which penetrates into 3 layers of the skin. If the skin isn't routinely cleansed, they get a build up of particles within the hair follicles, which can cause problems. I'm a specialist & these are the facts.

All this is discussed in my article about golden retriever grooming.

Goldens4Ever
December 28th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Unless he is suffering from severe, life-threatening malnutrition, a food allergy/ sensitivity should have no effect on his muscle strength, balance or his eyesight...

You are correct.

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 03:38 PM
Unless he is suffering from severe, life-threatening malnutrition, a food allergy/ sensitivity should have no effect on his muscle strength, balance or his eyesight. Is there something else going on ?

What I know for sure:
- his auto-immune system is totally compromised
- his eyesight comes and goes
- he has dysplasia in his right hip
- he has a disc that presses on his spinal cord
- food allergies/sensitivities

I'm posting a picture of him taken in October of this year - he turned 4 in July. His muzzle has turned white over the past year.

totallyhip
December 28th, 2008, 03:49 PM
What a cutie! Poor little guy :sad: I feel awful for him.

What were you feeding when you fed raw? was it just meat or bone too?
Also what kind of reactions does he have when you say he is allergic? hives? throwing up? diaherria?

Its so upsetting when our babies are sick.

totallyhip
December 28th, 2008, 03:52 PM
Oopos sorry I re read I must have skipped the reactions part of the post :rolleyes:

What does your vet recommend?

totallyhip
December 28th, 2008, 03:54 PM
We tried chicken, bison, goat, beef - and possibly more (can't remember now but I do know I tried everything they had at the time). Veggies were mixed in with it too.

what kind of veggies?

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 03:58 PM
What a cutie! Poor little guy :sad: I feel awful for him.

What were you feeding when you fed raw? was it just meat or bone too?
Also what kind of reactions does he have when you say he is allergic? hives? throwing up? diaherria?

Its so upsetting when our babies are sick.

When we tried raw it was meat only - but he always got bones anyway. Now, though, he can only enjoy the bison smoked bone without getting diarrhea.

Upsetting is right! I am literally at my wits end - the vets only want him on heavy meds - when the vet wanted to go to prednisone I backed right off. He was on a steroid and he was worse (energy-wise) than before the meds. He now gets glucosamine, acidophilus, salmon oil and chlorella and on this combination he has been doing extremely well - no flare ups of his arthritis (sorry, I forgot to include that in the "known" in a previous post).. He is an extremely lovable boy - a brat when he's feeling well though :)

erykah1310
December 28th, 2008, 04:06 PM
Honestly it seems quite impossible that your dog is allergic to every singe protien source under the sun.
I really think you need to give more time for detox and stay away from the purina hypoallergenic foods.

Are you feeding him treats while switching foods?
Have you tried foods with only meat in them ( innova RM as an example)?
When you tried raw, was it prepakaged? If so, there are alot of additives in those, by additives I mean stuff that really doesn't need to be there.
On raw did you give broad spectrum digestive enzymes to ease the transition and help out with the digestive juices?
When you did your homecooked meals that seem to be the only thing he could eat, what was the daily meal? What did it consist of? How many protien sources were used, was there rice in the meal, or potatoes?
Have you tried duck as the only protien source in his meals? ( raw or cooked) as duck is quite low on the allergenic scale.

How often are you switching foods? How long of a time are you giving a new food before switching again.
If you are doing this too frequently this could be a main concern in the allergies. Too much of everything in his system and not enough time for one source to work.
It must really be hard to be in this situation but I really think you need to find some food with only one protien source and absolutely no grains or other stuff in it and give it a good go.
Have you tried Solid Gold Wolf King? Its made with buffalo and salmon, I'm not exactly thrilled with the food myself, but those are 2 very different protien sources that you are not going to find in many foods.

I can only question how he is managing to survive at all if there is nothing he can possibly eat?

totallyhip
December 28th, 2008, 04:19 PM
I would be inclined to try the raw diet again. I know you have tried it before but it sounds like you had mixed other things in like veggies too. And not sure if you gave the proper time to a single meat source. Also were you feeding premade raw? Or did you do it on your own???

If I were you I would start with chicken meat and chicken backs/frames/carcasses. Do just that for a month or 2 and see how it goes. You'll have to eliminate all other things that your dog eats as well (such as treats and any type of vitamins or supplements that your giving). I don't give mine veggies (thats just me and there is a whole huge debate about that as some people do) but some dogs don't digest veggies very well.
See how your dog does on the chicken and then go from there.

Here are some sites on feeding raw:

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm
http://www.rawlearning.com/

Do as much research as possible about the raw diet. The more you learn the more you know and you will better be able to help your dog.

I suggest this because I went threw this myself first hand with Luke. He is allergic to all poultry and wheat, and he sufferred quite a bit before we discovered it. Alot of the vets were just medicating him with antibiotics and steroids. This really does just add to the problem more so than helped.

Another thing that I found with Luke is that he is allergic to all vaccines. We stopped vaccinating him as well. This was on recommendation by our vet actually about 4 years ago. This too is a very touchy subject and people have HUGE opinions and debates about it but I know it works for us and Luke has been so healthy ever since we stopped feeding him poultry and wheat and stopped his vaccines.

mummummum
December 28th, 2008, 04:25 PM
When he had his last blood work done ~ are all his organs (liver, pancreas and kidneys esp.) are doing what they should be doing? And the results of fecal samples taken on a regular basis?

Does he take prescribed medication of any kind on a regular basis? Have you ever tried eliminating the supplements to see if the digestion improves?

Any of the others in your household (furry and skins) have any "odd" (:D you know what I mean) problems?

totallyhip
December 28th, 2008, 04:28 PM
When we tried raw it was meat only - but he always got bones anyway. Now, though, he can only enjoy the bison smoked bone without getting diarrhea.



The Bison smoked bone probably has spices in it for smoking and curing. I would be inclined to not give that to him anymore. Its not raw its cooked by smoking with spices and additives.

hazelrunpack
December 28th, 2008, 04:29 PM
Our Evan had inflammatory bowel disease--it manifested as an allergy to protein. Once he was on a protein, inflammation would develop over a few months in response to it and we'd have to switch proteins. After a while, novel proteins are hard to find.

We eventually went to the hydrolyzed protein foods--the proteins are broken into shorter strings of amino acids that the body theoretically doesn't recognize as proteins--but it sounds like Bobby is reacting to the HA now, as well?

Jan, you might want to reconsider a course of pred. With Evan, we had him on pred for a few months, just to knock back the inflammation. We found that if we tried new proteins and he had any residual inflammation in his intestine from the old one, it made the new intolerance develop faster. So we used pred to get rid of the inflammation, then put him on Hills' version of hypoallergenic food--I think it was called ZD. After he was on the new food, we weaned him off the pred and were able to control his IBD with diet alone. We actually fed a mix of HA and ZD since HA didn't have enough flavor to tempt him to eat and ZD had too much. That might not work for Bobby, though, if he's already intolerant of the HA.

:grouphug: Good luck with this! It's a difficult challenge, that's for sure! :goodvibes: for Bobby!

mummummum
December 28th, 2008, 04:52 PM
Another thing that I found with Luke is that he is allergic to all vaccines.

Somewhere around here on pets.ca is a huge thread I and others wrote about vaccinosis. And I was wondering about that amongst other things myself.

From a food perspective...I'm not sure I agree about plunging right back into raw though. And, I personally would not do it with chicken. Although it is generally easier to digest, it is more prone to salmonella and listeria and with a dog with huge gut issues already I would worry about all the other :yuck: that commercially raised chickens are fed.

Personally I would also stay away from all commercially prepared foods and go back to cooking a single protein. No vegges, no grains, no extra treats, no nothing. You mentioned that you had some success with beef, have tried bison once and that he can still eat the bones. If you can find a source for FRESH-from the-slaughterhouse certified organic beef (that may be less expensive than bison), I'd go in that direction. I would be (being me :rolleyes:) cook it in a cast iron fry pan with just enough organic butter to oil up the pan.

I'm also going to post a question in health about colostrum as a separate thread Jan as I'm curious whether those with animals IBD/ colitis/ Crohn's have ever found success with it.

But, I do think there's more to this than food.

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 05:48 PM
I would be inclined to try the raw diet again. I know you have tried it before but it sounds like you had mixed other things in like veggies too. And not sure if you gave the proper time to a single meat source. Also were you feeding premade raw? Or did you do it on your own???

If I were you I would start with chicken meat and chicken backs/frames/carcasses. Do just that for a month or 2 and see how it goes. You'll have to eliminate all other things that your dog eats as well (such as treats and any type of vitamins or supplements that your giving). I don't give mine veggies (thats just me and there is a whole huge debate about that as some people do) but some dogs don't digest veggies very well.
See how your dog does on the chicken and then go from there.

Here are some sites on feeding raw:

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm
http://www.rawlearning.com/

Do as much research as possible about the raw diet. The more you learn the more you know and you will better be able to help your dog.

I suggest this because I went threw this myself first hand with Luke. He is allergic to all poultry and wheat, and he sufferred quite a bit before we discovered it. Alot of the vets were just medicating him with antibiotics and steroids. This really does just add to the problem more so than helped.

Another thing that I found with Luke is that he is allergic to all vaccines. We stopped vaccinating him as well. This was on recommendation by our vet actually about 4 years ago. This too is a very touchy subject and people have HUGE opinions and debates about it but I know it works for us and Luke has been so healthy ever since we stopped feeding him poultry and wheat and stopped his vaccines.

Bobby and poultry don't go together at all. Chicken and turkey were the first "for sure" eliminations. Christmas Day he got two small pieces of turkey and had diarrhea all day Boxing Day... We, too stopped vaccinations - Bobby had his puppy shots and one booster set then I saw the light and stopped. It is distinctly possible that the vaccinations are at least partly to blame for his auto-immune system being compromised..

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 05:57 PM
When he had his last blood work done ~ are all his organs (liver, pancreas and kidneys esp.) are doing what they should be doing? And the results of fecal samples taken on a regular basis?

Does he take prescribed medication of any kind on a regular basis? Have you ever tried eliminating the supplements to see if the digestion improves?

Any of the others in your household (furry and skins) have any "odd" (:D you know what I mean) problems?

His last bloodwork showed a low-normal Thyroid - everything else tested ok - no diabetes.. His last fecal sample was several months ago and he had chlostridium - which is now cleared up - he had antibiotics for that. No other meds.

He has been on the glucosamine and salmon oil for about a year now - given the dysplasia and the disc problem I really don't want to chance his coming off that. I have taken him off all supplements for about 4 months then re-introduced acidophilus and introduced chlorella within the last month. He has had bad spells with and without the supplements.

No-one else in the household has any "odd" problems (other than worry that is)... Amber and Shadow are healthy and as normal as could be.

There really is a correlation between his food reactions and his body functions though - he only has flare-ups when he is reacting to food. When I have changed the food the skin and body functions all clear up within a few days usually.

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 06:02 PM
Our Evan had inflammatory bowel disease--it manifested as an allergy to protein. Once he was on a protein, inflammation would develop over a few months in response to it and we'd have to switch proteins. After a while, novel proteins are hard to find.

We eventually went to the hydrolyzed protein foods--the proteins are broken into shorter strings of amino acids that the body theoretically doesn't recognize as proteins--but it sounds like Bobby is reacting to the HA now, as well?

Jan, you might want to reconsider a course of pred. With Evan, we had him on pred for a few months, just to knock back the inflammation. We found that if we tried new proteins and he had any residual inflammation in his intestine from the old one, it made the new intolerance develop faster. So we used pred to get rid of the inflammation, then put him on Hills' version of hypoallergenic food--I think it was called ZD. After he was on the new food, we weaned him off the pred and were able to control his IBD with diet alone. We actually fed a mix of HA and ZD since HA didn't have enough flavor to tempt him to eat and ZD had too much. That might not work for Bobby, though, if he's already intolerant of the HA.

:grouphug: Good luck with this! It's a difficult challenge, that's for sure! :goodvibes: for Bobby!

Interesting - and thank you for the insight into prednisone - I had not considered that at all! I will do some research into that.. And yes, Bobby has reacted to the Hills hypoallergenic food and also now the Purina - Purina has no animal fats in it. I've tried three different hypoallergenic foods and he has now reacted to all three of them! Also, Bobby's metabolism is somewhat different - he gets 3/4 cup of kibble twice a day and he weighs 67 lbs!

totallyhip
December 28th, 2008, 06:03 PM
I'm also going to post a question in health about colostrum as a separate thread Jan as I'm curious whether those with animals IBD/ colitis/ Crohn's have ever found success with it.

But, I do think there's more to this than food.

I agree its sounds like more than just food allergy. When we stopped the vaccines it took forever for it to come out of Luke's body. About 1 year before the allergies were completely gone.

I disagree about the Salmonella but thats my opinion for another thread :laughing: if you decide to go back to raw then try another protein source. Beef, bison, lamb, rabbit? So much other meat sources besides turkey or chicken. Luke can't eat any poultry so we feed everything else but :rolleyes:

We have had huge success feeding a raw diet to our Colitis dogs that we have fostered in the past. And they are still on raw in the adoptive homes and doing GREAT. They do really well on raw. At the shelter we feed the Colitis dogs Natural Balance Duck & Potato with some rice and 100% pure pumpkin. That helps them.

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 06:07 PM
Somewhere around here on pets.ca is a huge thread I and others wrote about vaccinosis. And I was wondering about that amongst other things myself.

From a food perspective...I'm not sure I agree about plunging right back into raw though. And, I personally would not do it with chicken. Although it is generally easier to digest, it is more prone to salmonella and listeria and with a dog with huge gut issues already I would worry about all the other :yuck: that commercially raised chickens are fed.

Personally I would also stay away from all commercially prepared foods and go back to cooking a single protein. No vegges, no grains, no extra treats, no nothing. You mentioned that you had some success with beef, have tried bison once and that he can still eat the bones. If you can find a source for FRESH-from the-slaughterhouse certified organic beef (that may be less expensive than bison), I'd go in that direction. I would be (being me :rolleyes:) cook it in a cast iron fry pan with just enough organic butter to oil up the pan.

I'm also going to post a question in health about colostrum as a separate thread Jan as I'm curious whether those with animals IBD/ colitis/ Crohn's have ever found success with it.

But, I do think there's more to this than food.

Well, no, I won't be plunging into raw - at least not right away. I do know that he is intolerant of poultry and duck. Hazel's suggestion makes good sense though- try the pred to get rid of any inflammation in the intestines and see if he can then tolerate a hypoallergenic food. I'm going to be looking into that.

I'll be anxiously waiting for any replies on your IBD/coloties.... thread !

totallyhip
December 28th, 2008, 06:26 PM
Good luck. I sure hope you get it sorted thru :thumbs up

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 06:29 PM
Thank you everyone! This has been a very trying experience - for Bobby and for me and all your suggestions and help are really appreciated!

rainbow
December 28th, 2008, 06:31 PM
Has Bobby ever been checked for a zinc deficiency? I know it can cause skin lesions and I believe it can affect the eyes. :shrug:

mummummum
December 28th, 2008, 06:55 PM
TotallyHip ~ the only issue I have with chicken is how it's handled by producers and particularly, retailers. It's a great source of protein for most nanimules if it's "done" properly. I'll also note that that some dogs can digest eggs (just pulverize the shell please, they need the calcium) where they can't eat chicken meat.

Jan ~ not suggesting that you stop the supplements. I wouldn't either. In fact I suggest you look at adding to them. Dasuquin may help. http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=471492#post471492 He has huge musculo-skeletal issues (which I suppose reflect the over-breeding of Golden's :shrug:) ~ the prednisone as an anti-inflammatory may actually help his digestion, certainly by reducing the inflammation but also from a pain-control perspective. Never been a big fan of steroids myself, but they have their place and they DO work. Pain control can be a huge in managing food issues.

I'm still working my brain around this ... something beyond food is defintitely going on. If it's food at all. No ear, eye or skin issues, no vomitting ~ liver and /or pancreas ?? Or is it neural ~ the vision and falling down. Just a result of pain?

Sorry Jan, I reallly am just thinking out loud. Any thoughts out there?

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 07:20 PM
Has Bobby ever been checked for a zinc deficiency? I know it can cause skin lesions and I believe it can affect the eyes. :shrug:

Not specifically - but I'll check it out - thank you!

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 07:32 PM
TotallyHip ~

Jan ~ not suggesting that you stop the supplements. I wouldn't either. In fact I suggest you look at adding to them. Dasuquin may help.

I'll look into that one.

I'm still working my brain around this ... something beyond food is defintitely going on. If it's food at all. No ear, eye or skin issues, no vomitting ~ liver and /or pancreas ?? Or is it neural ~ the vision and falling down. Just a result of pain?

Sorry Jan, I reallly am just thinking out loud. Any thoughts out there?

Please don't be sorry - any and all help is appreciated! I have been so
involved with this lately that I've quite probably not mentioned some of his other symptoms/problems...

No ear problems - eyesight comes and goes - his left eye will sometimes weep a gooey substance - and that happens when his skin has turned the red/purple colour (which I have attributed to food). no vomiting. Kidneys, Liver and pancreas have checked out ok. Having said that - they checked out ok with the vets - I'm now going to specifically ask that the kinesiologist check them out..

If I think of any more symptoms/problems, I'll post them..

His organs have checked out ok with the vets. I've had 3 different animal communicators contact him and they all have suggested there may be a problem with the heart - but no-one could or would elaborate on that. Also wondering about a heart problem, the vet asked if Bobby had any dry cough and at the time he didn't. Since that visit though, I have noticed that he will cough as if he is trying to clear his throat - it's a dry cough - it comes and goes and does not seem to be a result of his food intolerance or his staggering.

Lately I have noticed that he will not pee for about 12 hours - from say 9 pm to around 9 am or sometimes later - this is from the last outing for the night until we get down to the Beach in the morning. When I send him outside after his breakfast he will often just sit at the door until I ask him to come back in. He poops ok..

pitgrrl
December 28th, 2008, 07:44 PM
Have you ever considered consulting with a vet trained in either a homeopathy or traditional chinese medicine ?

I ask because one of my dogs has suffered from a whole variety of issues, digestive and otherwise, which regular vets could never figure out and treated as distinct, unrelated issues, though I always suspected that they were interconnected. This resulted in years of frustration and little to no progress.

I found much more helpful information with holistic medicinal practices which acknowledged and understood both things that I observed but could not be accounted for using blood tests, xrays, etc. and for the relationships between "unconnected" issues. It also offered alternatives to drugs which, in my case at least, offered at best very short term results and had negative long term effects on a dog who's whole body was just profoundly out of whack.

You can search for a vet with training in TCM here (http://www.tcvm.com/) and homeopathic vets here (http://www.drpitcairn.com/referrals/anhc_referrals.html), though in both cases I would call and ask about the particular vet's training, certification and experience before making an appointment (many do phone consults). As with anything, there are those with very little training/experience who advertise themselves as "holistic vets", but really will have little to offer you.

A couple of books that I've found extremely helpful are Homeopathic Care for Cats and Dogs: Small Doses for Small Animals (http://www.amazon.ca/Homeopathic-Care-Cats-Dogs-Animals/dp/155643295X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230511368&sr=1-1) and Four Paws Five Directions : A Guide to Chinese Medicine for Cats and Dogs (http://www.amazon.ca/Four-Paws-Five-Directions-Medicine/dp/0890877904/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230511420&sr=1-1)

rainbow
December 28th, 2008, 07:49 PM
I was also going to suggest going to a holistic veterinarian since there is something more than food allergies going on with Bobby.

JanM
December 28th, 2008, 08:32 PM
I was also going to suggest going to a holistic veterinarian since there is something more than food allergies going on with Bobby.

I too found that the vets - yes, I have now gone to three different ones, hoping for more than what I was getting from them - all looked at each symptom/problem as a separate issue - and all they could do was prescribe drugs. I have to admit, I did try the steroids for a while but soon stopped - Bobby was having a terrible time coping with them. That's when I got Animal Communicators involved and a Kinesiologist. So, a holistic vet is a possibility - there is one up Island from me and I'll have to find out more about her - if she really truly does look at the whole animal instead of each little piece!

Thanks pitgrrl and rainbow - a good suggestion!

rainbow
December 28th, 2008, 10:37 PM
Jan, I have never gone to a holistic vet, but if I ever had the need to, I would defintiely not hesitate. Good luck with Bobby :fingerscr :goodvibes: and looking forward to your update. :thumbs up

Ford Girl
December 31st, 2008, 12:19 PM
I dont have any advise ir knowledge on food but I wanted to say that Bobby sure is cute and curly. Hang in there Jan - you are doing your best and something good will come of it.

Its been too long since we've seen Bobby and Amber...

Tommysmom
December 31st, 2008, 05:18 PM
I really have to second - or third! - the advice regarding holistic/homeopathic vets.

My Tommy was dying, even though every test from every specialist came back negative for everything they could think of to test for. He couldn't even tolerate the vegetarian food, which is supposed to be the last resort for dogs who can't tolerate animal proteins. He was down to less than 3 pounds as a puppy, and losing more weight daily. One year later he is not just alive but doing great - not perfect, still has some food issues, but healthy enough that we're not worried about him anymore. He hasn't had any prednisone in a year, either. No more ear infections, no more urinary crystals, no more skin issues, no more lethargy (although still incredible laziness:laughing:).

I love my regular vet, but it's the traditional chinese medicine that really saved my dog - rather than treating symptoms, the holistic vet approached it as treating the whole dog... symptoms that we didn't realize were even related or even symptoms at all were part of the big picture. The dog who couldn't eat anything before has almost no sensitivities/allergies left - we've actually just begun introducing chicken back into his diet, which he hasn't been able to eat since he was about 10 weeks old! Natural supplements combined with some aggressive acupuncture treatments saved my dog.

It may not be your solution... but it might just work for you guys.

We're thinking good thoughts for you and Bobby:pawprint:.

JanM
December 31st, 2008, 08:48 PM
[QUOTE=Tommysmom;722643]I really have to second - or third! - the advice regarding holistic/homeopathic vets.

My Tommy was dying, even though every test from every specialist came back negative for everything they could think of to test for. He couldn't even tolerate the vegetarian food, which is supposed to be the last resort for dogs who can't tolerate animal proteins.

WOW - does that ever sound like Bobby! Everything tests absolutely normal - that's why I went to a Kinesiologist - the vets weren't finding anything that they could "treat".. Since Bobby's first Kinesiology session - he has had NO flare-ups of his spine or his hip - they used to get so hot it hurt to touch them. He hasn't staggered since then either. He does limp every once in a while on his left front and she is now working on that. She is now working on his digestive system and things related but it's either taking longer or isn't prone to this type of treatment - I just don't know. Bobby did react to the Vegetarian food - and that's after going through different Hypoallergenic foods.

What treatment did Tommy have? You mention prednisone - was Tommy on it for any length of time? and was this from the holistic vet?

Thank you for your information! I remember reading some of your posts and thinking there were similarities to Bobby but I was so busy worrying about my boy I didn't follow up at the time.

Tommysmom
December 31st, 2008, 09:15 PM
Tommy was on prednisone from the regular vet and the gastro-intestinal specialist from the local veterinary college... after ruling out EVERYTHING under the sun, they were absolutely positive that he had IBD. We put him through an endoscopy too, and they saw so much blood in his gastro tract that they were sure the biopsy results would prove IBD... but nope, nothing.

We tried everything - from various drugs at vet #1, to various other antibiotics at vet #2, and prednisone from the emerg vet and the specialist they called in. The pred took away a lot of the symptoms and allowed him to eat, but not for long, as soon as he'd be weaned off it he'd be ill again. He had so many other issues which we now know were due to the original problem and the various drugs - urinary infections, crystals, ear infections, severe pneumonia... you name it, this poor doggy had it. That's on top of vomiting multiple times daily, and plain just refusing to eat (and that started as an 8 week old puppy - a PUPPY refusing to eat!!). We went through various elimination diets, special foods, single protein foods, raw, etc etc... nothing worked.

I finally found the holistic vet, and wow - the questions she was asking, from whether his breath smelled bad to whether his paws were cold and what times of the year he seemed to be worse, it was absolutely amazing. She determined that his condition was related to one of his 'chi's'... now, whether you believe in that stuff or not, it basically boiled down to the fact that while nothing in particular was 'broken', his system just wasn't working right. It wasn't just one thing, it was the way his various insides worked - or didn't work - together.

We started on some supplements, all natural but super strong stuff, enzymes and probiotics and chinese herbs. We did acupuncture too, a few aggressive rounds in a row trying to get ahead of the illness and help his immune system gain some strength. I kid you not, we saw some results the very next morning after his first acupuncture - he got up in the morning and had a drink of water (he NEVER drank water before, he spent days and days at a time at the vet's before just to get hydrated by IV). We did acupuncture a few times a week for a couple of weeks, then a few weeks off, then on again, and then started weaning him off of that. He still gets acupuncture when we notice the symptoms worsening again, but now we're down to about once every couple of months. The goal is to get him strong enough to only need acupuncture maybe a couple of times a year as a booster for his system.

It's been just over a year since the last time he was hospitalized. I cannot believe the change in my doggy... and I tell you, everybody who was telling me to have him put down is completely mind-boggled over the difference now. My regular vet is amazed!

I know this was really long - sorry! I just can't stop once I start talking about this because I can't believe my Tommy is still here. My husband worked overseas while Tommy was ill, and I made him come home because I couldn't bear to have him put to sleep alone, that's how bad it was. And now he's a happy, healthy dog over 2 years old.

I'll stop lecturing now, LOL - if you have any questions, feel free to holler! Hopefully some of this might be some help, I know how frustrating it is to see your dog suffer while people tell you there's nothing really wrong.

JanM
December 31st, 2008, 09:48 PM
Thanks, Tommysmom - I am very concerned about putting Bobby on prednisone - the last vet wanted to put him on it - "to hasten his pain reduction" but he was having such trouble with the steroids he was on, I just couldn't do it - and once he was off those meds, he actually seemed better!

Kinesiology works much the same as the chinese medicine system - it works with the body's energy system as a whole - and works with the chakras and, yes, the qi (energy).. (also pronounced spelled chi).. I, myself, use Qi Gong for some medical problems and because of that system, am walking without a cane now and with no sciatic or hip pain - gotta love it!

Anyway, I have decided to give the Kinesiology another month - he has had some rather miraculous improvements from it so I'll see. He had an extremely bad day on Christmas Day - and it scared me. He hasn't been that bad for a very long time, if ever but he has bounced back. If he reacts to his food again, there is a holistic vet up Island that I'll try to get to see - I did some checking and it appears she is well-respected. Interestingly, Kinesiology did come up with Acupuncture as a possible aide for Bobby so I'll look into that a bit more too.

Thanks again and have a very Happy New Year with your now healthy puppy!

rainbow
January 1st, 2009, 02:18 PM
Good luck to you and Bobby :fingerscr ....keep us posted. :goodvibes:

JanM
January 1st, 2009, 02:59 PM
Good luck to you and Bobby :fingerscr ....keep us posted. :goodvibes:

Thank you!

spottydog
January 6th, 2009, 09:44 PM
So sorry to hear you're having this problem! I feed my dog Addiction, which you may want to try because they use novel proteins like kangeroo/brushtail/eel which your dog may not be allergic to, you can read more at their website - www.addictionfoods.com. It's supposed to be great for very sensitive dogs. I would also follow the excellent advice given by other posters on how to eliminate possible trigger foods. The friend who introduced Addiction years ago to me has a golden like yours who is allergic to everything, and as a result he's on the Zen Vegetarian dry food plus a bunch of homecooked. I know vegetarian formulas spark off a whole debate and I really don't want to go there, all I know is that my friend's dog is healthy and beautiful. I myself rotate between homecooked (beef), Addiction salmon bleu and addiction raw dehydrated lamb.

let us know how your dog is!

Kahne9Lover
January 13th, 2009, 04:47 PM
Hi. I'm very sorry to read about your plight. You said your furbaby is on glucosomine supplements. You might want to read the ingredients on the bottle. My Maya is highly allergic to wheat. After her knee surgery, I was given a bottle of glucosomine from the vets. After one dose, she was completely broken out etc. I freaked and ripped off the prescription label and discovered it contained wheat. (when I called the vet, he was so angry at himself for overlooking it, he couldn't say sorry enough) Many kinds of pill supplements contain flavoring, etc. to make them more enticing to the animal. I now have one that you mix with water and pour over the food that is wheat free. It may not solve your problem, but since you have to be so careful, you might want to at least check it out for any known allergens.

Marty11
February 17th, 2009, 03:35 PM
I feel for you. Going through the same thing with my young Boston. Remember to stick to one food for 12 wks before you see results. It will take a lifetime to figure it out. I was going to try vegetarian. I did the raw.....no good. I have however read that food allergies are a very small percent. So saying that it is probably inhaled allergies, they never go away. Atopica is a very good drug but expensive. My dog was the 10 percent that got sick on it. If it works it is a miracle. I also think that goldens have a lot of sensitivities, I have another one that has battled allergies all his life.

JanM
February 17th, 2009, 07:27 PM
Hi. I'm very sorry to read about your plight. You said your furbaby is on glucosomine supplements. You might want to read the ingredients on the bottle. My Maya is highly allergic to wheat. After her knee surgery, I was given a bottle of glucosomine from the vets. After one dose, she was completely broken out etc. I freaked and ripped off the prescription label and discovered it contained wheat. (when I called the vet, he was so angry at himself for overlooking it, he couldn't say sorry enough) Many kinds of pill supplements contain flavoring, etc. to make them more enticing to the animal. I now have one that you mix with water and pour over the food that is wheat free. It may not solve your problem, but since you have to be so careful, you might want to at least check it out for any known allergens.

Just saw your post today and quickly checked the glucosamine label - no wheat! Whew - because there's a good chance he is sensitive to it!
Thank you..

JanM
February 17th, 2009, 07:29 PM
I feel for you. Going through the same thing with my young Boston. Remember to stick to one food for 12 wks before you see results. It will take a lifetime to figure it out. I was going to try vegetarian. I did the raw.....no good. I have however read that food allergies are a very small percent. So saying that it is probably inhaled allergies, they never go away. Atopica is a very good drug but expensive. My dog was the 10 percent that got sick on it. If it works it is a miracle. I also think that goldens have a lot of sensitivities, I have another one that has battled allergies all his life.

Thank you - it isn't an easy path for sure! Since his acupuncture started, I've put him back on cooked food and so far so good. The acupuncture vet suggested we try it. I kept the vegetarian kibble just in case though..

Good luck with your Boston's diet - as you say, it may take a lifetime..

Myka
August 18th, 2011, 09:33 PM
Jan, I don't know if you're still frequenting these forums or not...I'm just wondering if you found a "cure" for Bobby?