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Need Help Please!!!!

JESSIEANN84
December 11th, 2008, 11:14 AM
Hey yall,

I really need some help. my SO is on his last nerve with our dog and is wanting me to find a new home for her. I'll give you a little background. We had 2 dogs. one of them was stolen from us around easter of this year. about a month later we rescued another dog from the shelter. I know that when you get a dog from the shelter, you dont know their background and what they have gone through, so i dont expect her to be perfect. well ive been crate training her since we got her. she goes outside everymorning for about 30 min to run around and play with our other dog, then i bring her in, put her in her cage with a little bowl of water and food, while im at work. then when i get off of work, she goes straight outside for a while and i let her in and out as needed the rest of the evening. (she does sleep in the bed with us at night.) when we first got her, she peed all the time. she would go out, pee, then come back in and 5 min later be wining at the door to go back out and pee again. this problem seemed to not be as bad as she has gotten older. however here is our problem

reciently she has been acting up last week, out of nowhere, she just walked into the living room and peed right infront of the door, we were both sitting in the living room and she usually sits at the door when she needs to pee. i jumpped off the couch and tried to grab her to put her outside, she ran from me, peed all the way up the stairs and into our bedroom. i finally got her outside after about 5 minutes and she was ok after that. fast forward to this week. 2 nights ago, my so went up to the bedroom and the dog jumps up on the bed and pees right infrot of him. again no warning. nothing. i showed her what she did and put her outside. well this morning, my SO didnt work, so i left the dog out and did not put her in the crate. apparently after i left she jumpped up on the bed again and peed. then ran into our little ones room and pooped in there.

I dont know what to do. my SO is so fed up with her because we have tried and tried to train her (our other 2 dogs we have had were trained the same way and never acted like this. we got them from the pound as well) shes been fine for the past few months, i can even remember thinking about 2 weeks ago how nice its been not to clean up pee every day. and then all of a sudden this happens. he wants me to find her a new family because he thinks that she is not going to change, after all this time. i dont want to give up on her, but its getting to the point where we argue about it so much its starting to affect our relationship. i understand why hes irritated. but im hoping that there is something that we can do to make this peeing stop. Any help would be greatly greatly appreciated....:pray:

BenMax
December 11th, 2008, 11:21 AM
Firstly you should maybe consider ruling out a medical issue.

Secondly you must be very consistant on house training the dog. A certain time everyday the dog goes out. A trainer is not such a bad idea as well to coach you and provide suggestions. Just a thought.

What is the breed of your dog and age?

ashtoreth
December 11th, 2008, 11:24 AM
How old is the dog?

bendyfoot
December 11th, 2008, 11:30 AM
I can kinda feel your pain...I have a puppy who's meticulous about keeping her bed/crate clean but will still poop/pee in the house if given a chance. It's definitely frustrating.

A few questions: how old is the dog, what kind of dog is it, is she spayed?

A few thoughts/suggestions:

1. It's possible that the innapropriate peeing is caused by a medical issue such as a urinary tract infection. Has the dog been seen by a vet since these episodes started? It might be worth exploring: if this is an infection, training is not going to help.

2. This could very much be a simple issue of training and routine. First of all, it does not sound like the dog is being adequately exercised. Most dogs need more than a "playtime" in the yard twice a day to blow off steam and feel stimulated. I would suggest twice daily, brisk walks, on leash, to chanel some energy and also to help establish a better relationship with the humans in the house.

3. Obviously your husband made a mistake leaving the dog uncrated that one time. When you're home, however, and the dog is not crated, I would be employing two things: NILF approach and umbellical. Umbellical is simply tying the dog's leash to your belt/waist. This not only establishes your leadership role, but it also makes it much more likely that you will catch the little bugger in the act or pick up on her cues more quickly that she needs to go. Don't give the dog access to areas when she has potied, if possible. Keep the bedroom doors closed or use baby gates to block her. NILF means the dog must work for EVERYTHING, including food, pats and treats. A "sit" or "down" or "stay" will suffice. But nothing is free.

If the dog is peeing on your bed...bedroom priviliges are GONE. The dog should not sleep on your bed, or anyone elses The crate is a perfectly acceptable place for her to sleep, and she will not be inclined to soil it.

4. Some of your reponses to her "accidents" may be in fact making the situation worse. NEVER show a dog an accident after it's happened. Unless you actually catch her doing it, dragging her over to an old mess and scolding her is only going to make her fearful (hence her running upstairs to the bedroom that time...she was fearful of what your response was going to be). If you DO catch her, simply say "NO" loud and firmly, but not screaming or angry, scoop her up and put her outside ON LEASH, so that you can be by her side to praise her LAVISHLY when she poties in the right place. On that note, be with her when she's outside as much as possible so you can praise and reward the "good" potty behaviour to reinforce that this is the place for her to go.

5. Now that she's soiled a few areas, you're going to have to clean the heck out of them. Use a high quality ENZYMATIC cleaner on the soiled areas, even if they "look" clean. The odor of urine/feces is still there, and the dog will be very temped to use them as potty places again unless the smell is chemically removed with the proper cleaner.

6. Her age may be a factor here as well. You could be dealing with puppy teenage rebellion, where it's not uncommon for them to retest all the boundaries and rules you thought you'd already established.

luckypenny
December 11th, 2008, 11:31 AM
Has she seen a vet to rule out any medical causes?

Start crate training all over again.
Get your entire family involved.
Take her out every hour when you are home.
Stay with her.
Praise and treat her every time she eliminates outside.
Ignore any accidents in the house unless you catch her right in the act, and the only thing you'll do is say "ah ah" in a firm voice.
Do not chase her, scold her, nor "show" her what she's done after the fact; you'll only have her associate the actual pee/poop with your displeasure, not the act itself. It will only create more anxiety for her and work against housetraining her properly.
Expect accidents, they happen, and continue with housetraining until she is 100% reliable.
Once she is, take her out more often, don't wait for her to tell you when she has to go.

Finally, stop arguing about it; it's not good for her nor for your family. Get everyone on board and committed to dealing with the situation appropriately. Housetraining her won't be the difficult part, getting everyone to work at it with patience and understanding may be.

Good luck.

Melinda
December 11th, 2008, 11:36 AM
so the 30 minutes you let her out to play with the other dogs is the only exercise she's getting? Do you walk her several times a day? I'd rule out medical reasons first, exercise more so she's relaxed in the house and if worse comes to worse, retrain her, start from scratch, keep her tied to you while you are at home so you see/notice right away she has to go outside to do her "duty", praise her like you did when first training her. If she is peeing on the beds....close the doors, saves a lot of temper.

JESSIEANN84
December 11th, 2008, 11:39 AM
thanks for the responses yall. to answer a few questions.
she is going to be a year in january (we think) like i said she was rescued from the pound so thats kinda an estimate. We believe she is Chocolate lab and chow mix. she is spayed. I havent had her to the vet since she was about 4mo. she has an appt. in january i believe for her 1 yr checkup and i was going to ask them about it then. i would take her not but i really cant afford the vet bill at this time. same with hiring a trainer. i guess im going to be keeping her in her cage more often. she does go out and play more than twice per day, shes usually out on her chain (12 ft) 3-4x per night. and always once before bed and as soon as we wake up (6:30am)

luckypenny
December 11th, 2008, 11:47 AM
shes usually out on her chain (12 ft) 3-4x per night. and always once before bed and as soon as we wake up (6:30am)

Can you go out with her while she's on leash? Every time? The trick is to be with her and praise her as soon as she goes.

BenMax
December 11th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Do you ever take your dog out for a walk instead of chaining her outside to do her business? If you walk your dog as an 'activity' then this will help.

Chaining the dog outside is not going to help the situation at all. It teaches the dog nothing.

bendyfoot
December 11th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Yeah, again, even time on a chain isn't going to cut it. She needs purposeful activity and some mental stimulation. Honestly, it sounds to me like you have a very high-energy breed, young pup, who is not being challenged physically or intellectually, so she is channeling her pent up energy and boredom into distructive behaviour. Have you tried borrowing a training book from the library? How often do you work with your dog on obedience? This issue is not likely to go away unless the family is willing to commit to spending some quality time with the dog on a daily basis.

luckypenny
December 11th, 2008, 11:50 AM
I forgot to add, you can ask your vet if you can just bring in a urine sample for analysis to rule out a urinary tract infection. It doesn't cost much and you don't have to pay a consultation fee this way. If she does have a UTI, ask your vet to write out a prescription and have it filled at your local pharmacy. Much, much cheaper than buying meds at the vets.

clm
December 11th, 2008, 11:51 AM
thanks for the responses yall. to answer a few questions.
she is going to be a year in january (we think) like i said she was rescued from the pound so thats kinda an estimate. We believe she is Chocolate lab and chow mix. she is spayed. I havent had her to the vet since she was about 4mo. she has an appt. in january i believe for her 1 yr checkup and i was going to ask them about it then. i would take her not but i really cant afford the vet bill at this time. same with hiring a trainer. i guess im going to be keeping her in her cage more often. she does go out and play more than twice per day, shes usually out on her chain (12 ft) 3-4x per night. and always once before bed and as soon as we wake up (6:30am)

A lab/chow mix needs attention and exercise. Outside play with another dog and out on a 12 foot chain isnt enough. You need to get out there with them and work them, either walking them for a good couple of hours or playing with them out there for a good couple of hours. Keeping her in her cage more often isn't the answer, you need to take the time and work with her.

Cindy

Blackdog22
December 11th, 2008, 12:08 PM
I would not rule out submissive peeing.
If you husband is a more assertive person (or perhaps has a loud booming voice) your dog could be trying to tell him "hey guy, your the boss....see Im completely and utterly submissive to you good sir"
I have seen some dogs do this.
My female use to have excitement peeing, so I understand how frustrated you must feel.

Try googling submissive peeing in dogs.

BenMax
December 11th, 2008, 12:14 PM
A lab/chow mix needs attention and exercise. Outside play with another dog and out on a 12 foot chain isnt enough. You need to get out there with them and work them, either walking them for a good couple of hours or playing with them out there for a good couple of hours. Keeping her in her cage more often isn't the answer, you need to take the time and work with her.

Cindy

Absolutely - well said.:thumbs up

JESSIEANN84
December 11th, 2008, 01:11 PM
I'm going to start taking her on a walk every morning before i go to work (guess i will see what it looks like outside at 5am fun!) and when i get off of work. she does get to play around in the yard with our other dog and every weekend we go out to our farm house and they have 13 acres to run around on. But i guess i need to try to get her out more.
to the poster on the submissive peeing, i actulley found some info on that and was wondering if that could be the problem as well. im going to try to find some more information on that here shortly
I talked to our vet and she said just to check to see if she has a uti would run me over $150. i can not afford that right now, so im going to see if these other tricks will work. and if they dont, i will have them check her at her 1yo appt in january.
i talked to my SO about all these things it could be and hes calmed down alot. he didnt realize that it could be a UTI or the submissive peeing problem (neither of us have ever heard of it) one reason i think it could be the submissive is because she also pees whenever someone new comes over and shes gets excited to see them. i think that shes still in her puppy stage and we need to work a little harder on the training.
im really glad i found this board, you all have offered alot of help and opened my eyes to things i didnt realize. thank you very much!

bendyfoot
December 11th, 2008, 01:17 PM
The peeing when people come over is a big flag for submissive peeing. A good way to help this is, when either you come home or a friend comes over (tell them in advance that you need them to do this), COMPLETELY ignore your dog. Don't talk to her, look at her, pet her, nothing. Come in, take off your coat, change, do what you normally do when you get home, and then once she's calm and relaxed, invite her over to say hello, and give her some nice loves and pats, but not excitedly. Keep the excitement of coming home to a minimum, and I bet you'll see less of those piddles by the door. :D

ETA: keep in mind that, if it IS a UTI, and you leave it for a month, it's liable to cost MUCH more than if you were to treat it now, not to mention cause of lot of discomfort in the meantime. I'm surprised at the cost. Did you ask the vet specifically if you could just drop off a free-flow urine sample for a basic urinalysis? If not, do, using those words. Sounds like they want to run a bigger workup than what's needed for an initial check.

BenMax
December 11th, 2008, 01:20 PM
Good for you! Walking the dog will help I am certain. Ensure that you set up a routine for the dog.

Also for the submissive peeing, it is important to 'give' the dog confidence. They are sensitive to loud or 'yelling' voices. Other than new people coming to the home can you give me an example of when she submissive pees? Does this happen when you come home?

luckypenny
December 11th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Tell your SO that no dog is inherently bad, especially in the case of your pup. It's just a matter of understanding, learning & teaching, and patience on our parts. Just like with kids.

Good luck...and when you can, we'd love to see photos of her :lovestruck:.

Melinda
December 11th, 2008, 01:42 PM
at that age (a year old) I was, and still am , walking my lab mix 3 kms- 3 times a day, plus our game of fetch in the backyard after supper, usually for about 20 minutes, yes its cold in the winter, but I wear a skidoo suit, ski mask and moon boots *L* quite the sight!! thank dawg I have no neighbours

JESSIEANN84
December 11th, 2008, 02:13 PM
As ive been looking up the submissive peeing, its seeming more and more that thats the case. im going to start working on it as soon as i get home, hope to see some improvements soon!! I added 2 pics of Bella (the pee-er) one of her as a baby and one more recient. and one of both our dogs together.
i really appreciat all yalls help! it really calmed me down alot!

bendyfoot
December 11th, 2008, 02:15 PM
Oh my! The CUTE!!!:lovestruck:

luckypenny
December 11th, 2008, 02:18 PM
She has the most sweetest angelic face :angel: :cloud9:. Both your dogs are beautiful :lovestruck:.

Love4himies
December 11th, 2008, 02:21 PM
What a beautiful face :cloud9:

BenMax
December 11th, 2008, 02:28 PM
She has the most sweetest angelic face :angel: :cloud9:. Both your dogs are beautiful :lovestruck:.

I was thinking the same.:cloud9:

JESSIEANN84
December 11th, 2008, 02:58 PM
thanks, the thing that got me about her was the fact that her eyes match the color of her coat. i thinks shes just gorgeous (hence the name bella) but you can see why its hard to be mad at that face :) shes gotten pretty fat here latley, i think thats the chocolate lab in her!

bendyfoot
December 11th, 2008, 03:00 PM
Hooo, boy, yes, labs are food hounds for sure! You always have to be pretty vigilant about how much you feed them...the extra walkies are going to help with the boodah bellie too :D

JESSIEANN84
December 11th, 2008, 03:18 PM
Ya ive noticed that, i downgraded the size of the bowl i give her in the mornings. my SO wants her to get big and fat but im trying to prevent that! althought the budda belly is quite adorable :)

bendyfoot
December 11th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Big and fat = sick and expensive!!!! Bad SO :evil:!!!

Blackdog22
December 11th, 2008, 04:32 PM
I'm going to start taking her on a walk every morning before i go to work (guess i will see what it looks like outside at 5am fun!) and when i get off of work. she does get to play around in the yard with our other dog and every weekend we go out to our farm house and they have 13 acres to run around on. But i guess i need to try to get her out more.
to the poster on the submissive peeing, i actulley found some info on that and was wondering if that could be the problem as well. im going to try to find some more information on that here shortly
I talked to our vet and she said just to check to see if she has a uti would run me over $150. i can not afford that right now, so im going to see if these other tricks will work. and if they dont, i will have them check her at her 1yo appt in january.
i talked to my SO about all these things it could be and hes calmed down alot. he didnt realize that it could be a UTI or the submissive peeing problem (neither of us have ever heard of it) one reason i think it could be the submissive is because she also pees whenever someone new comes over and shes gets excited to see them. i think that shes still in her puppy stage and we need to work a little harder on the training.
im really glad i found this board, you all have offered alot of help and opened my eyes to things i didnt realize. thank you very much!


I know excatly how that is!
We just got a dog run set up a few weeks ago, but for the past 4 months I have had to walk my dogs one at a time for each pee break....starting at 3 am, everyday. It SUCKED!!