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Wife's death means 81 cats must go

clm
November 27th, 2008, 11:59 AM
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/544293

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 12:07 PM
So sad. I hope they all find loving homes in the name of this woman and her loving husband.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 12:16 PM
Ok,

It's sad that this lady has passed. But hello 83 cats living in her house. I am sorry but I would have hated to see the conditions in this house., not to mention the stink of feces and urine. There is no way that she would have been able to keep up with the upclean of all the litter boxes, even 2 people.

This person is what you would call a horder.

Discailmer: And if people are upset with my post...Come with me and see what is looks/smells like, walking into a house with this many cats. Even 30 cats. Not only is it bad for the human(s) living there, but also the cats. Having this many cats, cat illness's start. Cats could have FIV, and start affecting other cats, mixing unfixed cats together, cats do not get proper socializtion, *ugh* I could go on.

Happy to hear that the cats will get loving homes.

ACO22

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 12:31 PM
Holy Moly....ACO22. I hear what you are saying but the woman is deceased and I personally think she should be commended at the very least since they did sterilize and adopt them out. Interesting that the interview did not say that there was a huge stench in the house and they were all living in deplorable conditions. Hate to say this - but I have been in a home that had 50 cats and believe it or not - you could NOT smell animal in that house...so it can be done.

14+kitties
November 27th, 2008, 12:50 PM
Ok,

It's sad that this lady has passed. But hello 83 cats living in her house. I am sorry but I would have hated to see the conditions in this house., not to mention the stink of feces and urine. There is no way that she would have been able to keep up with the upclean of all the litter boxes.

This person is what you would call a horder.

And if people are upset with my post...Come with me and see what is looks/smells like, walking into a house with this many cats. Even 30 cats. Not only is it bad for the human(s) living there, but also the cats. Having this many cats, cat illness's start. Cats could have FIV, and start affecting other cats, mixing unfixed cats together, cats do not get proper socializtion, *ugh* I could go on.

Happy to hear that the cats will get loving homes.

ACO22

These comments are completely uncalled for. That woman gave her life for these cats. IF the living conditions were different, IF the cats hadn't been taken to the vets when needed, IF they hadn't been s/n, IF, IF, IF!!! BUT this was not the case!!

Not trying to be nasty but I would suggest you go back and reread that article. Then open your eyes to see the other side of the story just for once. This is not the first time you have made disparaging remarks about people who don't deserve it. Please try to make it your last.

I guess I am a hoarder then too. If so, I am :censored: proud to be called one!!!

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 12:52 PM
I guess I am a hoarder as well. 4 cats and always at least one foster cat not to mention 1 dog and always another foster dog. Does my home smell - at times when the persian goes:laughing: - but easily remedied by a quick scoop!

aslan
November 27th, 2008, 12:52 PM
well said 14+ i was thinking of you when the ever so impolite post was made.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 12:52 PM
Holy Moly....ACO22..

That is why I put my 'Discailmer'.(SP)

Hate to say this - but I have been in a home that had 50 cats and believe it or not - you could NOT smell animal in that house...so it can be done.

I'll talk your word for it, but can't see it.

ACO22

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 12:56 PM
That is why I put my 'Discailmer'.(SP)



I'll talk your word for it, but can't see it.

ACO22

Do take my word for it as I have done my share of inspections in the past, not to mention I have gone to homes to help them getting cats adopted. Also, have dropped cats off at rescues that obviously have many cats - and I must say an imprompt to visit where things were orderly. I would not talk out of hat and can only find it within myself to speak of the truth..and nothing but.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 12:57 PM
There is a BIG difference from 83 cats then 14 or less.

I would really hate for you guys to endure the conditions that I have walked into.

ACO22

clm
November 27th, 2008, 12:58 PM
Ok,

It's sad that this lady has passed. But hello 83 cats living in her house. I am sorry but I would have hated to see the conditions in this house., not to mention the stink of feces and urine. There is no way that she would have been able to keep up with the upclean of all the litter boxes, even 2 people.

This person is what you would call a horder.

Discailmer: And if people are upset with my post...Come with me and see what is looks/smells like, walking into a house with this many cats. Even 30 cats. Not only is it bad for the human(s) living there, but also the cats. Having this many cats, cat illness's start. Cats could have FIV, and start affecting other cats, mixing unfixed cats together, cats do not get proper socializtion, *ugh* I could go on.

Happy to hear that the cats will get loving homes.

ACO22

I gotta agree, 83 cats is way too many for 2 people to look after, but it seems they did it. The cats are all healthy and neutered, so kudo's to them for that. The sons are helping with the cleaning and feeding now, and no mention was made about the house being a mess, so I have to assume this poor woman pretty much killed herself to look after these cats and her ailing husband and her house. I'm sure you've seen your share of disgusting homes ACO22, but people with 2 cats can live in a pig sty.
No one has said the cats are adopted, they're hoping to get them all adopted. A tall order, but being healthy and already neutered will certainly help.
Might be nice to hear of some animal control officers helping to get them adopted as they are in such good condition instead of condemming these poor souls for doing better than most of the shelters can or do.

Cindy

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 01:00 PM
There is a BIG difference from 83 cats then 14 or less.

I would really hate for you guys to endure the conditions that I have walked into.

ACO22

I've seen it all ACO22 - and I have also seen the good sides as well. Just to let you in on my world - I went on a raid where as a mother is giving birth, other dogs were pulling them from her and devouring them...so been there, done that.

Unless we actually see, feel, smell the conditions as per the article - then we cannot judge in my opinion. I am absolutely certain that the media would have discribed this particular situation in detail if there were medical or sanitary problems.

14+kitties
November 27th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Well said clm! I agree that there are hoarders and they should be taken care of/have animals taken away from them IF those animals are living in inhuman conditions. In THIS case I don't see that. I see a woman who loved her cats, who did everything she could for those cats, who had help with litter and cleaning. I don't see sick, ailing, dying cats being hauled away to be euthanized.

And ACO22 - My moniker (name) is 14 PLUS not 14 MINUS!!

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 01:05 PM
These comments are completely uncalled for..!!!

Why, because you do not agree with what I am saying? Call up a SPCA and ask them, what would you call a person who had 83 cats living in their house. I bet I can tell you the answer.

Then open your eyes to see the other side of the story just for once. it your last.!!!

I guess I could say the same thing.

ACO22

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 01:09 PM
ACO22 - I don't know why you are upset with this article. Have you been so jaded that every situation is of devastation? There are good people out there, with good intentions. If the animals were dying and not vetted - then I would agree with you 100% that this is a classic case of hoarding. The facts are not that however. This is a woman that refused to look the other way and was proactive in sterilizing and vacinating the cats. There is nothing ugly about this story.

14+kitties
November 27th, 2008, 01:11 PM
Let's not go there ok. I live it every single day, 365 days a year, 24 hours a day. I don't get away from it. Not that I want too. I work to feed, home my cats. Would I do it again? In a bleedin' heartbeat!

Last I am saying on this. You can't see the other side of the coin and I am not risking being banned to try to get through to you.
Thanks :thumbs up

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 01:18 PM
This is a very good article with good intentions from good people. There is nothing sinister about that.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 01:21 PM
[QUOTE=BenMax;701786]There are good people out there, with good intentions. If the animals were dying and not vetted QUOTE]

I know they were fixed and vac. Which I commend her for. I am talking about odds are the smell. Which is unhealthy for humans and cats. Sorry 83cats, your house is going to smell and have amonia from the urine in the air.

While I do applaud her for rescuing these cats, resources should have been put in place.

ACO22

clm
November 27th, 2008, 01:22 PM
Why, because you do not agree with what I am saying? Call up a SPCA and ask them, what would you call a person who had 83 cats living in their house. I bet I can tell you the answer.



I guess I could say the same thing.

ACO22

And who says that the SPCA's definition would be any more correct in this case. :shrug:

I'm sure you must see some aweful things ACO22, but we all do, hence why so many of us here have a lot of pets.
I do agree, that 83 cats is too many for a working couple. Now a couple who were home all day, that might be manageable. It would certainly be a full time job.
An aweful lot of us could certainly manage a lot more animals than city bylaws or SPCA officers give us credit for. I don't know what the limit should be, or that there should even be a limit on neutered animals in private homes, but sounds like this couple has done a stellar job for these cats. Helping them to find homes for these animals now is all that really matters.


Cindy

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 01:25 PM
I am not risking being banned
Thanks :thumbs up

Getting banned? Why because we are having a discussion and have different opinions?

ACO22

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 01:27 PM
Helping them to find homes for these animals now is all that really matters.


I agree.

ACO22

aslan
November 27th, 2008, 01:28 PM
personally i think clm posting this was done with good intentions. An elderly couple did the best they could to help these animals. It is unfortunate that you AC)22 have seen such bad things. I have gone in homes with 1 cat that just stunk and also gone into homes with a dozen and no smell. You've had your say, insulted a very well respected member. can you drop it now.

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 01:32 PM
While I do applaud her for rescuing these cats, resources should have been put in place.

ACO22[/QUOTE]

Can you be more explicit. The photo in the Star looked just like any ordinary household. The resources were there, food, shelter, vetting, love. What more could an animal want from their keeper?

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 01:33 PM
ACO22 - look at this in a more positive light is all I am saying. Not everything is horrible. This just may be one of those situations.

This woman should be celebrated, this should not be twisted into something that it is not. It says nothing in the headlines about 'stinky house'.

Lighten up.....there is good in most people.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 01:37 PM
personally i think clm posting this was done with good intentions. An elderly couple did the best they could to help these animals. It is unfortunate that you AC)22 have seen such bad things. I have gone in homes with 1 cat that just stunk and also gone into homes with a dozen and no smell. You've had your say, insulted a very well respected member. can you drop it now.


I don't know how I insulted a member, by giving my opinion on a sensitive subject but. I am done playing in the sandbox.

ACO22

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 01:38 PM
Getting banned? Why because we are having a discussion and have different opinions?

ACO22

She didn't want to be rude.
You've had your say, insulted a very well respected member. can you drop it now.

ACO22 drop something, You've gotta be kidding :rolleyes:

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 01:39 PM
I don't know how I insulted a member, by giving my opinion on a sensitive subject but. I am done playing in the sandbox.

ACO22

:thumbs up

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 01:40 PM
I don't know how I insulted a member, by giving my opinion on a sensitive subject but. I am done playing in the sandbox.

ACO22

I guess I am not understanding why this thread turned weird. It is about opinions ACO22 and you did use the disclaimer...so you must have been pretty much aware and prepared to take this on.

Mat&Murph
November 27th, 2008, 01:45 PM
Personally I wouldn't have 81 cats or dogs!!! But I have seen people with 1 pet and that pet ended up being rescued so If this couple took care of these cats then My hats off to them!!!!! I also believe if something was wrong with that house that the cats were in the media would have said something. They are never scared to say anything when it come to animal abuse!! By the sounds of it this couple loved and took care of their cats. I hope they find new forever homes! Thats the main thing right now!!

:rip:To Kitty lovers!!

kathryn
November 27th, 2008, 02:32 PM
sorry but just because you have alot of critters doesn't mean your house is gonna stink or be gross... I have all my kitties and I foster kittens and everything... if I covered up the litter boxes with a sheet and hid all the cat toys and scratching posts, unless you actually saw a kitty you wouldn't even know I had cats. It's not really that difficult to keep the house clean and the animals healthy. There's been times I've had over a dozen feline of various sizes in my house and I've managed to keep my house sanitary. My mom helps though obviously.


That lady :rip: & her husband are just doing good work. I've been to other rescuers houses and such who have lots of critters and they're houses are cleaner then those of families who don't have any critters at all!

My friend Fran explained how one time she went to a kitty rescuers house and she had 70+ cats at the time, and the only way you noticed was if you went downstairs and saw the few dozen litter boxes; all clean mind you.

It's just not that complicated. The couple in this story clearly were not hoarders. Hoarders don't properly care for their animals. These people went above and beyond to help out the kitties :cat:

So kudos to them :thumbs up

Winston
November 27th, 2008, 03:02 PM
I am not going to even comment on the story because I cant see for my own eyes. However I want to say a couple of things that I am sure are not going to be taken well but at this point it needs to be said.

Why cant we all agree to disagree? We all are individuals with an opinion. We will never come to a consensus?? Really?

This is starting to become a regular occurence on this site and it is getting to be a downer? Why do we have to beraid people, insult them, talk down to them like they are below all of us? Why cant we just discuss and offer opinions or suggestions and take them as they are a suggestion? It is getting kind of tiring for me anyway to see how some folks are treated? come on guys we are human beings with feelings? I am not defending any particular thread even this one! Its with all of them lately?

Why couldnt ACO22 put here opinion or experiences on here without being judged? Like I said I am not defending any one person but come on we can be a little more civilized?

I dont know about everyone but it would be really sad for others to come here searching for help and see some of the judgemental inconsiderate comments that have been thrown around....and I mean on other threads too!!

Sorry for the rant! But that is my 2cents on the issue..

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 03:24 PM
I agree with you Winston. There is absolutely no reason that ACO22 shouldn't be able to put her/his opinion or experiences for us all to read. All too often ACO22's attitude with people is a bit over the top and condescending. In this instance she/he was rather rude to 14k - completely unacceptable. I myself have been called 'naive' and 'my dear' by ACO22 in a condescending manner. I find that unnecessary

Winston
November 27th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Its not about that! really...I think that an awful lot of judgements are made here and that is really not called for. I agree the tone in which we type our responses is rude and ABSOLUTLEY not called for by anyone here!

I think that we would be a far better place to try to educate people....we wont teach them anything by being rude.

There have been many times I wanted to go and give someone a piece of my mind but held back because it wont help the situation any...what happens? they leave and nothing has happened to help the poor pet that broght them here in the first place??

14+ I'm sorry this is nothing personal at all......:thumbs up

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 03:35 PM
I don't think anything horrible happened here in this thread. Let's take the article for what is worth. That's all.

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 03:39 PM
I think that we would be a far better place to try to educate people....we wont teach them anything by being rude.

I'm with you 100% but some folks think that they know it all, sadly enough.

There have been many times I wanted to go and give someone a piece of my mind but held back because it wont help the situation any...what happens? they leave and nothing has happened to help the poor pet that brought them here in the first place??

Me too - but that wasn't the case in this particular instance.


clm - posted this link for the interest of all, maybe someone could even help by adopting - it was all in good faith, but it was turned into something else hugely criticized by ACO22 and there was no need.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 03:44 PM
I agree with you Winston. There is absolutely no reason that ACO22 shouldn't be able to put her/his opinion or experiences for us all to read. All too often ACO22's attitude with people is a bit over the top and condescending. In this instance she/he was rather rude to 14k - completely unacceptable. I myself have been called 'naive' and 'my dear' by ACO22 in a condescending manner. I find that unnecessary

I have to say I speak my mind. My attitude? Just because I have a different opinion then someones, or do not agree with someone's opinion, gives me an attitude. And I was rude to 14+? I never once critized her, only disagreed with some of her thinking. It is a difference in opinion.

And as for people bring rude, numous people have attacked me on this forum, but since people agree with these people, it is never spoken of.

ACO22

Mat&Murph
November 27th, 2008, 03:49 PM
Honestly, people are always going to disagree. Thats just part about everybody being different. But we all joined this forum because we all have one Major thing in common. We love our and everybody else's animals. I think we all need to step back and remember that and respect that everyone has a different opinon.

aslan
November 27th, 2008, 03:52 PM
lol, gonna play devils advocate here, i don't think my response wasn't rude in anyway and i did ask that it be dropped. I guess it depends on each persons idea of what is rude and to whom.

Now we are definately concerned about the new comers here and what they read, and we do want to educate.

What if say 14+ had walked into a response like the one made here when she joined us. Who here seriously thinks she would have stuck around and ended up being one of the most helpful members we have.

Yes ACO22 is entitled to her opinion, i never said she wasn't. I personally just think it was a little harsh, all i asked was that it was toned down a little.

Mat&Murph
November 27th, 2008, 04:00 PM
The main theme of this thread is about a wonderful couple that opened up their hearts, and home for a bunch of kitties. Like I said befor I believe if there was abuse the paper would have written about that. I just pray that they find homes for them!:pray:

I have alot of respect for 14+ and aco22, If my earlier post was insulting then please accept my apolgies.

chico2
November 27th, 2008, 04:33 PM
ACO,I do not blame you if you have become a bit jaded ,working with abandoned and abused animals,hearing every excuse in the book,you see how rotten the human race can be.
However,in this case I believe you were wrong,the lady died from a heart-attack,not something that was expected.
Nowhere does it say,the house was a mess and smelly,the news-paper would have been quick to point that out.
Not all the cats were in the house,they also have a heated garage where some of the cats were kept.
This"elderly"couple did this out of love for cats,took proper care of everyone of them,s/n and everything else that was needed.

Also I greatly admire your work and anybody dealing with shelters,but at times you do come off a bit harsh,jump to conclusions.
As for 14+,she is totally dedicated to caring for her cats and I believe,even if she had 81 cats,they would be 81 healthy happy kitties:cat:

Winston
November 27th, 2008, 04:33 PM
I agree this is not what the thread was intended for..I had a moment I guess....sorry.

I think only the mods should be the ones to have to ask that it be toned down? But it should never get to that point..

poodletalk
November 27th, 2008, 04:43 PM
Just last year, I helped a women who was dying from brain cancer with her house hold of cats she had close to 100 of them, plus 2 dogs including a three legged German Shepherd and she adopted a young boy.

Even though my friend was WAY over the legal limit of animals in her area, her house was very clean, she hired part time cleaners daily to clean cat boxes and her house.

All her animals were sterlized and vet checked, she wasn't a wealthy women but she knew how to stretch a dollar and she just managed. She didn't ask anyone for help, when she had a litter of kittens, she would put them in a grocery cart and pull them to the vet clinic 15 minutes from her house as she could not afford a car.

She was also very active trying to adopt her kittens or cats, to make room for the unfortunate souls who needed her next.

When she passed away, it was a sad day for the animals in Montreal, she was always ready and willing to open her home to another who needed her.

I too have seen the other side of too many animals, I understand what your saying ACO22, but not all cases of too many animals in the house are end up bad. If somene just heard the story about my friend without knowing all the details, they would think she was a crazy cat hoarder, which she wasn't.

After my experience with my friend, I try not to judge a person who has too many animals until I have all the facts.


Here's couple of articles about my friend: http://www.themonitor.ca/article-150906-Got-any-love-to-spare.html

http://www.themonitor.ca/article-176970-Kathy-Bievers-story-a-reminder-about-what-matters.html

sugarcatmom
November 27th, 2008, 05:14 PM
Definition of animal hoarding, from Tufts University: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/cfa/hoarding/abthoard.htm#A1

The following criteria are used to define animal hoarding:


More than the typical number of companion animals

Inability to provide even minimal standards of nutrition, sanitation, shelter, and veterinary care, with this neglect often resulting in starvation, illness, and death

Denial of the inability to provide this minimum care and the impact of that failure on the animals, the household, and human occupants of the dwelling


It's about more than just the number of animals.


Animal hoarding is not about animal sheltering, rescue, or sanctuary, and should not be confused with these legitimate efforts to help animals.

It IS about satisfying a human need to accumulate animals and control them, and this need supercedes the needs of the animals involved.

t.pettet
November 27th, 2008, 07:48 PM
Kudos to this wonderful couple for doing what they did to help these cats and undermining their achievements/efforts by branding them as hoarders is completely insensitive and without merit. Unless you have been into their home you cannot or have any right to judge their living conditions. Not everyone should be painted in a negative connotation for choosing to live their lives differently from the norm.

Frenchy
November 27th, 2008, 08:12 PM
This woman should be celebrated,

You bet Benmax ! :thumbs up She was clearly a wonderful / devoted cat rescuer :angel:

Frenchy
November 27th, 2008, 08:15 PM
This is starting to become a regular occurence on this site and it is getting to be a downer?



Sorry Winston but I have to say something .... 2-3 years ago , the board was much "worse" , not that I minded , I even miss it sometimes. It has tone down A LOT !!! Asking for more is a bit much.

Winston
November 27th, 2008, 08:25 PM
Frenchy I did not want this to be a thread that got out of control. I know things were much worse then but it doesnt have to be now!

Maybe I shouldnt have brought it up?? :shrug:

Shaykeija
November 27th, 2008, 10:25 PM
I feel sorry for the man. He just lost his wife, a lung and now his cats. :shrug: His house lookes pretty clean...I hope he wins his battle with cancer...

zomo
November 27th, 2008, 11:02 PM
New member here :) Forgive me if I am wrong but isn't a hoarder someone that can't bare give up one of their pets. It is my understanding that this lady was adopting out her kitties. I commend her for taking the best possible care of all the animals she had. What was the alternative? Would they have lived a better life in the out doors scrounging for food? I am mother to 1 kitten and 1 foster kitten.

chico2
November 28th, 2008, 05:54 AM
I am thinking this lady has joined all the other kitty/pup:angel2:who have been welcomed at the Rainbow Bridge.
:rip:caretaker of the unwanted:angel2:

Love4himies
November 28th, 2008, 06:18 AM
I gotta agree, 83 cats is way too many for 2 people to look after, but it seems they did it. The cats are all healthy and neutered, so kudo's to them for that. The sons are helping with the cleaning and feeding now, and no mention was made about the house being a mess, so I have to assume this poor woman pretty much killed herself to look after these cats and her ailing husband and her house. I'm sure you've seen your share of disgusting homes ACO22, but people with 2 cats can live in a pig sty.
No one has said the cats are adopted, they're hoping to get them all adopted. A tall order, but being healthy and already neutered will certainly help.
Might be nice to hear of some animal control officers helping to get them adopted as they are in such good condition instead of condemming these poor souls for doing better than most of the shelters can or do.

Cindy

Well said, CLM, especially about these poor souls doing better than most shelters. If these two can do, then in my opinion, shelters can too. It just astounds me that in this day and age, that some Cdn Humane Societies are not spaying/neutering before adopting out.

Love4himies
November 28th, 2008, 06:25 AM
New member here :) Forgive me if I am wrong but isn't a hoarder someone that can't bare give up one of their pets. It is my understanding that this lady was adopting out her kitties. I commend her for taking the best possible care of all the animals she had. What was the alternative? Would they have lived a better life in the out doors scrounging for food? I am mother to 1 kitten and 1 foster kitten.

Hoarding is a mental disease which can include taking in cats even though they are not or can not take care of their current ones, not the same as somebody who takes in animals and properly cares for them. I know of a former hoarder, who still feeds strays in her yard, doesn't like to spay and neuter the cats because she feels they won't forgive her so they continue to breed :yell: :mad:. And yes, she couldn't bare to give up her cats either.

14+kitties
November 28th, 2008, 08:19 AM
:candle::rip: Mrs. Sonja Currell :candle: You are truly now an :angel2: at the Bridge as you were here on earth. :candle:

mona_b
November 28th, 2008, 10:43 AM
First let me start by saying,OMG, that poor man..His wife DIES in his arms,he has cancer..And now it's going to break his heart to give up his cats.:cry::cry:


Second.Some people need to have a heart...This man is going through He!! and he is being put down about all these cats,his house must be a mess and smell.HELLO it states he has a heated garage. So that is saying that these cats are NOT all in the house.

Funny how at times people are being put down for their love of animals..This couple fed,fixed and LOVED these cats...These cats came from people who didn't give a rats A$$ about them.

I second that 14+

:rip:Mrs. Sonja Currell :candle: