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Frustated with shelters

NoahGrey
November 26th, 2008, 08:36 AM
Just have to rant about shelters, municipal and some pounds that do not spay or nueture animals before going to a new home. I don't understand how a animal welfare organization can claim that they are into protecting animals, when they are infact contributing to the pet overpopulation, by not having the animals spay/nue before going to their foever home. Giving the adoptees a voucher for it and giving a adoptee a choice is absurd. I think society has proven that getting their pet fixed is not a priority. Just look at all the shelters overcrowed.

Also, the fact that they can send animals to research. Please support the Project Jessie Fund. The project Jessie fund places animals in foster homes that would have been sent to research or will be euth for inapproiate reasons.

www.projectjessie.ca

ACO22

kathryn
November 26th, 2008, 09:04 AM
http://www.nathanwinograd.com/

Animals are apparently second class citizens. If that.

I'm glad my state made it illegal for research people to take animals from shelters. My (county) shelter has a rather morbid history though. Ages ago they used to sell animals to kids at the county college to be dissected and stuff. Luckily that's all illegal now and all the people who used to run the shelter are long gone.

Why does it seem like Canadian shelters are worse then American ones at this point? I can never find statistics for Canadian shelters either. How many are impounded/year in Canada and how many are put down ??

BenMax
November 26th, 2008, 09:11 AM
Kathryn - the worst Canadian statistics for animal control and what actually happens to animals are in the province of Quebec.

Also it is virtual impossible to find out the stats because many shelters, animal controls etc are not sharing the accurate numbers as to how many come in, how many adopted, how many euthanized, how many found by owners. I am certain the US has the same problems.

The laws in Canada are very week unfortunately, and are not government run. Most are 'businesses' or non-profit organizations.

ACO22 - reputable rescues and the SPCAs do infact adopt animals that are sterilized. If a bitch is not sterilized immediately it is because of the heat cycle and honouring the 30 days after sterilization of the female in question.

NoahGrey
November 26th, 2008, 09:19 AM
ACO22 - reputable rescues and the SPCAs do infact adopt animals that are sterilized. If a bitch is not sterilized immediately it is because of the heat cycle and honouring the 30 days after sterilization of the female in question.

I know that reputable rescues and the OSPCA and it's branches and afflicates do not send animals to research(although I do know of one OSPCA afflicate that did or still does send animals to research) Usually it is the City shelters that give out vouchers (although there are some shelters..yes even spcas that hand out vouchers for spay/Nu) When it comes to an animal in heat. A good SPCA will wait till the heat cycle is over, then spay and then the dog can go to their forever home.

For research, it is usually City run shelters that give animals to research.

And I agree. Ontario is actually the worst when it comes to protecting our animals from cruelty. We are so far behind from other provinces, countries, etc.

ACO22

NoahGrey
November 26th, 2008, 09:28 AM
http://www.nathanwinograd.com/.

Own and read the book. A must read.


Animals are apparently second class citizens. If that.

You hit it on the mark. Sadly they are not even 'if that'.

I work for a Humane Society. We bring in thousands of animals a year. We do not euth for cage space. We work with rescues, wildlife rehab centers. As of right now, we have over 450 cats in our cat and counting.

ACO22

Chris21711
November 26th, 2008, 09:31 AM
And I agree. Ontario is actually the worst when it comes to protecting our animals from cruelty. We are so far behind from other provinces, countries, etc.

ACO22

Actually ACO22 - the third reading of Bill 50 just happened last week, which will give Ontario the best animal protection laws in the country. Not great by any means but better than zilch.

kathryn
November 26th, 2008, 10:03 AM
I work for a Humane Society. We bring in thousands of animals a year. We do not euth for cage space. We work with rescues, wildlife rehab centers. As of right now, we have over 450 cats in our cat and counting.

ACO22

But are you 'open admission' aka animal control?

My 'no kill' shelter has over 200 cats in it's care as well. My county shelter that does most of the animal control work got in about 6,000 animals last year and hardly euthed any. I mean, they kill, but not for stupid reasons. It's really not that hard to become no-kill or even low kill. My county shelter follows the sort of 'no kill' agenda... convenient hours, spay/neuters animals before they go out, has low cost spay/neuter options available, has a great foster care program, utilizes PetSmart luv-a-pet centers, offsite events when they can, handing out literature and putting out donation jars... etc etc. It obviously works since we have the lowest kill rate in New Jersey. AND we probably get more 'unadoptable' animals in then any other shelter. We're contract to take in animals from Camden, which is 'nuff said if you know the deal with Camden. (google Camden NJ).

If everyone would just work together and perhaps if the government would invest some $$ into saving instead of killing animals, we could have done alot better.


Another example is Spalding County Animal Control in Griffin, GA. Before their kill rate was 90%+. A few years ago, a rescue group called Winging Cat Rescue formed and stepped in to help. If a few women, a couple foster homes, a MySpace page and 2 transport vehicles can make the kill rate at that shelter drop to 5-10% in about 5 years, that really shows something. The shelter still gasses unfortunately, but their adoptions have skyrocketed from this rescue group getting the word out and providing s/n+rabies vac. vouchers out of their own pockets, it really goes to show how extremely easy it is to fix the problem

NoahGrey
November 26th, 2008, 12:43 PM
But are you 'open admission' aka animal control?

Yes Kathryn, we are an open admission shelter, wheather it be Animal Control bringing them in, Surrenders, etc. We take in ANY animal that comes through our doors, no matter what time of day. We rented two trailers to help with the incoming of stray cats. We even have cats and rabbits/other small animals, in every office, hallwalls, staff bathrooms. We also work with Petsmart and Petcetra. We also have foster programs, humane education programs, etc.

All sick and injured wildlife, that can be rehabilated are driven to one of the best Widlife rehab centers in the country.

ACO22

chico2
November 26th, 2008, 04:16 PM
This might only be happening on TV(Animal-Planet)but it seems to me the SPCA rescues in the US have more resources,more power,more staff,better rescue-vehicles etc...than we do in Canada,like I said it might just be the rescues on TV:confused:
The rescue in Phoenix even have equipment to treat injured animals in their trucks,I think that's fantastic.
Am I just being fooled in to thinking the US have a better system???

Chris21711
November 26th, 2008, 04:31 PM
This might only be happening on TV(Animal-Planet)but it seems to me the SPCA rescues in the US have more resources,more power,more staff,better rescue-vehicles etc...than we do in Canada,like I said it might just be the rescues on TV:confused:
The rescue in Phoenix even have equipment to treat injured animals in their trucks,I think that's fantastic.
Am I just being fooled in to thinking the US have a better system???

It does seem that they have more resources in the US Chico. Here they carry equipment to help injured animals also.

I would say more power in the US, it seems from watching those shows that a lot of them carry guns which makes them somewhat more intimidating. Here now they carry animal repellant (pepper spray) and batons, but up until 6 months ago not even that. Here now, they wear bullet proof vests. This was all made possible from the ONE TIME grant from the Provincial Government of $5 million this year.

Other Provinces :shrug:

kathryn
November 26th, 2008, 05:52 PM
This might only be happening on TV(Animal-Planet)but it seems to me the SPCA rescues in the US have more resources,more power,more staff,better rescue-vehicles etc...than we do in Canada,like I said it might just be the rescues on TV:confused:
The rescue in Phoenix even have equipment to treat injured animals in their trucks,I think that's fantastic.
Am I just being fooled in to thinking the US have a better system???

You are just being fooled. Down South (Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina specifically), 'animal control' consists of a guy, a pickup truck and a gas chamber.

Some places are lucky to have things like that. My county has several animal control officers and several shelters. They are equipped for some emergencies but not much.

My county shelter runs on about $500,000 a year for 6,000 animals. Only 150,000 is from the county. The government does not care about animal shelters or animals.

kiara
November 26th, 2008, 07:38 PM
I really don't know how municipal pounds operate, (each town has its own rules) but they should check for a microchip first, in case it is a lost animal. If they really send animals to research isn't there money involved? I did not think that pounds did that? There are a lot of very good rescue groups in Montreal. (They are unpaid volunteeres and they do the best they can with few financial resources) They adopt out only spayed and neutered animals. The new prospective owners are also screened. I think you should be frustrated with pet shops that sell unnutered animals for profit and also the government gets a cut, for sales tax. These stores keep the puppy mills and kitten mills on full going basis and making them a lot of money.

Karin
November 26th, 2008, 08:19 PM
DO not get me started here. I see way to many false reports here. Know what you post before you hit the button.

chico2
November 27th, 2008, 06:16 AM
Karin,I realize what I see on TV,is just that,TV,usually from Houston,Phoenix and New York City,most of the time with happy ending stories.
If these shows bring awareness to people,awareness of animal-abuse,puppy-mills etc...plus donations,they are not a bad thing,IMO.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 08:28 AM
Here now, they wear bullet proof vests. This was all made possible from the ONE TIME grant from the Provincial Government of $5 million this year.

Actually they are not Bullet proof. I am assume you are talking about the vests that have been issued by the OSPCA. While they do look like bullet proof vest, they are not. They are knife resistant.

We always laugh at the shelter, saying that lets hope, someone doesn't answer the door with a gun, cause we would be in trouble.

ACO22

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 08:56 AM
DO not get me started here. I see way to many false reports here. Know what you post before you hit the button.

Could you be more specific.

Actually they are not Bullet proof. I am assume you are talking about the vests that have been issued by the OSPCA. While they do look like bullet proof vest, they are not. They are knife resistant.

Actually they are puncture resistant.

We always laugh at the shelter, saying that lets hope, someone doesn't answer the door with a gun, cause we would be in trouble.

ACO22

Which shelter do you work at ACO22?

kathryn
November 27th, 2008, 09:00 AM
Actually they are not Bullet proof. I am assume you are talking about the vests that have been issued by the OSPCA. While they do look like bullet proof vest, they are not. They are knife resistant.

We always laugh at the shelter, saying that lets hope, someone doesn't answer the door with a gun, cause we would be in trouble.

ACO22


......What's the point of a knife resistant vest? Do people get stabbed alot in Canada?

Okay, so here is a question. What is the function of an Animal Control officer in Canada? It seems to vary from place to place. In my state, an ACO is the person who collects the stray and injured animals and brings them back to the designated shelter. However, down south, the ACO is the person who collects the animals, but not only that, they run the shelter, do all the paperwork and are the ones to decide which animals to kill and is the one to kill them!

It's all rather backwards....

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 09:58 AM
It various from province to province and municipality to municipality. There is no standard, nor are they regulated.

And no, people do not usually get shot or stabbed around here, but there is always precautions I suppose or these vests were given to them due to over production.

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 10:05 AM
......What's the point of a knife resistant vest? Do people get stabbed alot in Canada?

Canada as a whole Kathryn :shrug: In Toronto lately there seems to have been quite a few, seems that most of it is gang related from what I read in the papers.

Okay, so here is a question. What is the function of an Animal Control officer in Canada? It seems to vary from place to place. In my state, an ACO is the person who collects the stray and injured animals and brings them back to the designated shelter. However, down south, the ACO is the person who collects the animals, but not only that, they run the shelter, do all the paperwork and are the ones to decide which animals to kill and is the one to kill them!

It's all rather backwards....

I guess it varies throughout Canada, the same as in the US. Our local SPCA which is also the biggest in Ontario covers animal control for two of the Municipalities in the area. Their function is to collect strays and any wildlife in distress. They are then brought to the shelter where they are scanned for a microchip or any other identifying information (ie tags etc.,), if any is found the owners are contacted. The shelter then holds them the specified time (each municipality has their own guidelines that they want adhered to) then they are placed for adoption. It is not the decision of the Animal Control Officer to decide who is fit for adoption, that decision is made by shelter staff.

I think too that this thread is getting crosswired with Animal Control and Investigations, which are two different departments. A lot of the shows we watch on the Animal Planet cover both. Going by these shows Cruelty Agents in the US have way more power vested in them than here in Ontario. I cannot speak for the rest of Canada.

ACO22 - before you wish to correct any of what I have written above this is the way things are run at our SPCA branch.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 11:40 AM
ACO22 - before you wish to correct any of what I have written above this is the way things are run at our SPCA branch.

Ok, I guess I was going on your quote here

Here now, they wear bullet proof vests. This was all made possible from the ONE TIME grant from the Provincial Government of $5 million this year.

Seems like it is a bit too generalized here in the quote.

What is the function of an Animal Control officer in Canada?

An ACO rescues sick/injured domestic and wildlife. They pick strays. Alot also enforce the animal-related bylaws in their city...bylaws such as dogs running at large, dogs off leash, etc. They also help out with wildlife issues, educate the public on responsible pet ownership.

Animal Cruelty Investigator: deals with animal cruelty. (while they can also help with the above, they usually only deal with the cruelty aspect)

While I know many SPCA'S have both titles. They do both Animal Control and Animal Cruelty. The shelter that I work for does. To become an Agent (Animal Cruelty Investigator) in Ontario, you must be accepted in the OSPCA training course. Which is currently 2 weeks. Use to be only a week course.

ACO22

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 11:43 AM
Ok, I guess I was going on your quote here

Seems like it is a bit too generalized here in the quote.

:confused: Sorry I don't understand what you mean.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 12:02 PM
:confused: Sorry I don't understand what you mean.

In your post you had referred to the use of bullet proof vets as "here now". As in you were referring to all of Ontario? Since it seems like the OSPCA has handed out different vests for different SPCA's, instead of "here now", maybe "at the shelter that I work for/know" would have been better?

But I do agree with you that Canada does have less resources then our neighbours. It is frustating..isnt?

ACO22

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 12:17 PM
"at the shelter that I work for/know" would have been better?

Would it?
ACO22

To the best of my knowledge ALL agents in Ontario have been equipped with the same defensive equipment. Not Animal Control Officers but Agents

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 12:22 PM
To the best of my knowledge ALL agents in Ontario have been equipped with the same defensive equipment. Not Animal Control Officers but Agents

I understand what you are saying, however the vests that we have at our shelter are not bullet proof. And yes, only Agents can wear the vest.

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 12:25 PM
In this province (Quebec) Animal Control and SPCAs/Shelters have two separate mandates and work in two different capacities. Here - Animal Control is a bad word as far as animal welfare is concerned. Inspectors and Animal Control is also very separate. It just goes to show how different we are just cross the 'line'.

Chris21711
November 27th, 2008, 12:33 PM
Animal Control also covers by-law infractions, i.e. barking, too many animals, dogs or cats running at large. They work with the by-law officers of the municipality that they are under contract to.....This is in my neck of the woods.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 12:39 PM
In this province (Quebec) Here - Animal Control is a bad word as far as animal welfare is concerned. .

I think you will find that all across the board here, in Canada. It really is sad. Our goal is too protect every animal and give it a second chance. Rescue the lost, abused, distress, sick, injured and the whole time thinking "what is the best interest for this animal" and hopefully give them justice in the end.

However, I have been getting alot more Thank you's from the public. Maybe slowly things are turning around?

ACO22

BenMax
November 27th, 2008, 01:45 PM
I think you will find that all across the board here, in Canada. It really is sad. Our goal is too protect every animal and give it a second chance. Rescue the lost, abused, distress, sick, injured and the whole time thinking "what is the best interest for this animal" and hopefully give them justice in the end.

However, I have been getting alot more Thank you's from the public. Maybe slowly things are turning around?

ACO22

When you start getting those thank you's - it's proof that citizens are seeing change. It's also those thank you's that encourage our animal 'workers' to not get frustrated and keep plugging away.

kiara
November 28th, 2008, 02:33 PM
Sorry Karin, but these are the facts that there are very good rescues in Quebec !!! There were several bad ones, but they do not "rescue" anymore. At the same time, I don't know anything about bullit proof vests, they are not needed here in Quebec, because it is not a crime to abandon, abuse or neglect an animal. For everyone who lives outside this province QUEBEC IS THE WORST FOR ANIMAL ABUSE, NEGLECT AND ABANDONMENT IN THE THE WHOLE OF NORTH AMERICA, THERE ARE APPARENTLY 2,000 PUPPY MILLS IN THIS PROVINCE, WHICH IS A TOTAL DISGRACE. I know that a lot of people with paid jobs like to complain and point fingers. Unless you actually do something about it, ( donations of money, which is desperately needed, doing clinics, driving animals to vet appointments, doing fundraisers, fostering, trapping and releasing etc....), you are just talking. Talk is cheap and it does not help animals!!!

Karin
November 28th, 2008, 11:17 PM
Sorry Karin, but these are the facts that there are very good rescues in Quebec !!! There were several bad ones, but they do not "rescue" anymore. At the same time, I don't know anything about bullit proof vests, they are not needed here in Quebec, because it is not a crime to abandon, abuse or neglect an animal. For everyone who lives outside this province QUEBEC IS THE WORST FOR ANIMAL ABUSE, NEGLECT AND ABANDONMENT IN THE THE WHOLE OF NORTH AMERICA, THERE ARE APPARENTLY 2,000 PUPPY MILLS IN THIS PROVINCE, WHICH IS A TOTAL DISGRACE. I know that a lot of people with paid jobs like to complain and point fingers. Unless you actually do something about it, ( donations of money, which is desperately needed, doing clinics, driving animals to vet appointments, doing fundraisers, fostering, trapping and releasing etc....), you are just talking. Talk is cheap and it does not help animals!!!

And...you are addressing me, why? I stated don't get me started, for a reason. And there are false reports here. Nothing else.
Yes, talk is cheap, I see a lot of it. Are you questioning what I have done to help animals?
Go ahead chickie, I can run you around the block and then some.
I am adult enough, I do not or will not bow up with a badge like Barny Fife (with only one issued bullet, in his pocket) and strut the walk.
Show me your proof on the mills..cough it up. We have problems here times a megatude, I have seen it so bad I can shower until my skins ripples and I still cannot feel clean, forget about the nightmares. They follow you no matter what.
I worked animal control/ rabies control too. I have been shot at and had a shot gun aimed at my forehead in a stand off after only being employed for 3 weeks.

Keep yaking, I'm listening. P.S., I have some shoes you can borrow if you want to walk in them.

kiara
November 29th, 2008, 12:39 PM
Sorry Karin, but actually only the first two sentences are ment for you!! (In my previous post) I am sorry if you got offended. The other comments are made for the general public, living in Quebec. I am using this forum to plead with as many people as possible to please help shelters in any way they can. Because this is where I live and I know how great the problems are here.

hazelrunpack
November 29th, 2008, 01:13 PM
To get back to the original post, I think one of the main factors in issuing the certificate to spay as opposed to actually having the animal spayed/neutered is money. Some small shelters, run out of people's homes and pockets because the support isn't there, simply cannot afford to do the spay/neuter of every animal they take in and adopt out. There are some very small county organizations in WI (not county-run, but serving an entire county) that would have to turn away many animals that need care if they also did the spay/neuters. They can barely afford the medical care to bring them back to health. :shrug:

It's sad, but there is very little governmental support for shelters in small rural Towns. Our Town (as all small Towns do in this county) has to transport strays all the way to Neillsville, the only shelter that I know of in the entire county. That shelter does get donations and does spay/neuter before adopting out, but there are no shelters in the smaller communities because no one can afford to operate one!

We have considered opening one here since we have a small facility for doing so, but getting operating funds would be a nearly impossible task, and I can guarantee that we couldn't afford to both feed and vet any strays and have them spayed/neutered before adoption. Sad, but true... Hence, we continue to transport the strays to the other end of the county. :sad: And I wonder how many are turned away because there is no space there?

NoahGrey
November 29th, 2008, 01:33 PM
To get back to the original post, I think one of the main factors in issuing the certificate to spay as opposed to actually having the animal spayed/neutered is money.

While that is probably true in many cases, not always. Here in Ontario, there are quite a few Municipal City Shelters...yes goverment run. Do not spay or neuter before adoption, but hand out a voucher. This particular makes me sad, since these city shelters have not only donations coming in, but money from our lovely goverment. Also have to mention, that I know ALOT of spcas that have more programs to aid in finding forever homes for the animals that are temporary calling the shelter home. When you think, it should be the City Run, since they have way more money then a non-profit.

Maybe it's because the purpose of a City Shelter is too "control" the population, rather then save like a SPCA?

ACO22

hazelrunpack
November 29th, 2008, 01:42 PM
I don't have a lot of experience with government-run shelters. Governments in this neck of the woods don't seem to think shelters are a priority. :sad: I agree that if the funding is available, there should be a 'spay/neuter before adoption' policy in place.

Schwinn
November 29th, 2008, 07:12 PM
We got Daisy from the SPCA in Orillia, and she wasn't spayed. We had to get it done, than bring the bill in to be re-imbursed. I always wondered why they didn't do it, and include it as part of the adoption fee. And if it was cost, then leave them un-spayed/neutered until they were adopted, and then do the spay/neuter prior to release, once the fee was paid.

The only thing I could come up with is that they are already over-crowded, and they didn't want to discourage people from adopting with a higher fee.

But, that being said, I agree. Even more so with cats, because ever shelter in ever town I've lived in is constantly having a problem with being over run by cats. Here in Keswick, they are constantly having "adoption specials" because they have well over a hundred cats (I believe that was the last number I heard.)

faranya
December 7th, 2008, 08:47 PM
Our local SPCA shelter doesn't spay/neuter young kittens, but the expectation is that it will be done when the kitten is old enough (and the vet returns proof of said surgery to the shelter). Adopters get a voucher good for a discount. After six months, if the animal still hasn't been altered then the SPCA will take it back (so they say, anyhow; I've never experienced this personally since my critters are always snipped ASAP).

I have an 11-week-old kitty I just adopted from a rescue group. They normally do early spay/neuter but my little guy isn't big enough yet, so he is booked with their vet for next month. It's pre-paid by the adoption fee.

If every local shelter insisted on releasing young animals only after altering, I suspect they'd have a huge backlog of kittens waiting to grow big enough for surgery ... and maybe being bypassed as a result. So that could be one reason why it isn't always done.

babymomma
December 7th, 2008, 09:10 PM
The spcas in NFLD make adopters sign a contract stating that if the animal is adopted from the shelter unaltered, it will have to be s/n within 2 weeks of adoption OR when they reach the age of 6 months. If the rules arent followed, The animal is taken back from the adopters and rehomed again.

kathryn
December 7th, 2008, 09:43 PM
The spcas in NFLD make adopters sign a contract stating that if the animal is adopted from the shelter unaltered, it will have to be s/n within 2 weeks of adoption OR when they reach the age of 6 months. If the rules arent followed, The animal is taken back from the adopters and rehomed again.

It's just easier for the shelters to do it themselves. No shelter where I live would even think for 2 seconds that this was a good idea. The only time an animal leaves our shelters without being fixed is because of age or medical problems (and in that case usually is going into foster care anyways).

We did adopt out an unaltered dog before, but the dog was about 10 years old and she had been completely neglected and abused. Instead of making her sit in a kennel for X amount of weeks (months?) to get well enough to get spayed, which may never even happen to begin with, we found a lovely couple who cried when they heard her story and took her home with them :) The wife was working from home or something and needed a companion to keep her company.

Those are the times when it is acceptable. Otherwise, it's just a million more times efficient to do it yourself!!! It's probably cheaper and easier anyways.

babymomma
December 8th, 2008, 04:46 AM
Our shlters do MOST of them themselves, But they will adopt out an animal if your willing to spay/neuter at your own cost, and if that is the case, the adoption fee is lower too. Keep in mind the S/N around here is almost 400 $...

Twocents
April 13th, 2010, 12:50 AM
Just have to rant about shelters, municipal and some pounds that do not spay or nueture animals before going to a new home. I don't understand how a animal welfare organization can claim that they are into protecting animals, when they are infact contributing to the pet overpopulation, by not having the animals spay/nue before going to their foever home. Giving the adoptees a voucher for it and giving a adoptee a choice is absurd. I think society has proven that getting their pet fixed is not a priority. Just look at all the shelters overcrowed.

:thumbs up :thumbs up I totally agree.

Also, the fact that they can send animals to research. Please support the Project Jessie Fund. The project Jessie fund places animals in foster homes that would have been sent to research or will be euth for inapproiate reasons.

www.projectjessie.ca

ACO22

Thanks for posting this! I shared the info about Project Jessie on FB.

I'd heard about shelter animals being used in research but didn't have more info about it.

One local Ontario rescue group here brings in dogs from all over, including the U.S. I'll have to ask if they accept or seek any animals from Project Jessie.