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got this on facebook today

kara1
November 24th, 2008, 11:11 AM
and here is a video http://www.viddler.com/explore/SavePups/videos/1/
This is just discusting what some people can do. And this is the face book page http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=34948192471

onster
November 24th, 2008, 11:15 AM
wth?!?!

Im stunned.

Chris21711
November 24th, 2008, 11:20 AM
Can't download videos, can you tell me what it is about, although if too gruesome, maybe not.

krdahmer
November 24th, 2008, 11:21 AM
You have got to be kidding me. :censored: :sad::frustrated:

kara1
November 24th, 2008, 11:23 AM
people are usin dogs as bait for sharks not goin to get into details but its NOT nice

kathryn
November 24th, 2008, 11:24 AM
I heard of this a while ago. I'm not entirely sure if it's legit or not. Sort of seems like an urban legend. It seems they want to urge a different government everytime. For that page it was the French government I believe. I've seen the same picture of the dog with the hooks threw it's mouth for several other countries as well. I wouldn't be surprised if it was real somewhere, but signing an online petition is useless.

Chris21711
November 24th, 2008, 11:25 AM
I think it is best that I don't know :sad: I went to one of the links and saw the title :yell:

kara1
November 24th, 2008, 11:26 AM
yah urban legend or not who ever makes these things up must be just as sick

onster
November 24th, 2008, 11:26 AM
chris, from the FB group.

Innocent stray dogs are being skewered alive and being dragged behind boats as shark bait. Help us sign a letter to the French government to ask for an end to this inhumane practice in Reunion Island (French-controlled). We are asking the government to make sure this never happens again. You can WATCH THE VIDEO that shows the poor dog being rescued -- see below.


Here is a piece of the National Geographic article:
"Live and dead dogs and cats are being used as shark bait by amateur fishers on the French-controlled island of Réunion, according to animal-welfare organizations and local authorities.

The small volcanic island off Africa's east coast is bursting with stray dogs—upward of 150,000, says Reha Hutin, president of the Paris-based Fondation 30 Millions d'Amis (the Thirty Million Friends Foundation).

Hutin sent a film crew to Réunion this summer to obtain proof that live animals were being used as shark bait. The goal was to expose the practice on the animal rights group's weekly television show.

It didn't take long for the film crew to find three separate cases, she said.

A videotape and photographs show the dogs with multiple hooks sunk deep into their paws and snouts."


:cry:

onster
November 24th, 2008, 11:27 AM
but even if its an urban legend, who put hooks thru dogs paws and faces just to make it seem more legit?!?!?

bendyfoot
November 24th, 2008, 11:29 AM
There's an article on national geographic....that's pretty legit. Oldish, but legit. Good god.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1019_051019_dogs_sharks.html

Chris21711
November 24th, 2008, 11:30 AM
Just the thought of it has made me sick to my stomach. WTF is this world coming to.

onster
November 24th, 2008, 11:32 AM
K i checked it out on snopes.com (u can see if something is a rumor or not).

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/sharkbait.asp

apparently there was an article in the local paper on that island that confirmed the practice does in fact occur - one fisherman and deliveryman were prosecuted - but its not as widespread/ horrific (no, it is horrific IMO!), or as tolerated as portrayed in the media.

They believe that maybe shark activists tried to sensationalize the story.

The french gov't also ackowledged that this practice does occur but again noted that its prevelance and acceptance is not as much as portrayed in the media.

Mat&Murph
November 24th, 2008, 12:41 PM
I have never even heard of this!!!!!!! This is just horrible. Thanks for posting!!! I just signed the petition and emailed out to my contacts to do the same!!!!

Love4himies
November 24th, 2008, 12:56 PM
Can't bear to look :sad:

Karin
November 24th, 2008, 01:44 PM
I am on dial up so I didn't even try to view the video.

But I can say people DO these things to animals. In 1995 I was the vet tech at a Humane Society near Orlando. During that summer we got a good conviction on a little old black man that was caught on camera using a cane pole at a local lake, using kittens for alligator bait. He apparently had been using this practice to catch illegal alligators for many decades.
There are many other gross story's I could share from all the years I have worked around critters, some here have already heard them, I will not do this at this time. But believe me when I say there are some really, really horrible people out there....Let me rephrase that, they are not "people", monsters is a better word to describe them.

ancientgirl
November 24th, 2008, 03:26 PM
OMG that's the most horrific thing I've heard! I hope those who do things like that will get their own special welcome in the place with the flames and spend eternity being skewered and tossed as bait!:wall:

Stacer
November 24th, 2008, 04:50 PM
As soon as I saw the first second of that video I had to turn it off. Does that video show the rescue of the dog?? If it does, I'd like to finish watching it, if not, I don't want to know what happened next.

Somewhere along the evolutionary chain some people lost their humanity and became monsters.

krdahmer
November 24th, 2008, 05:24 PM
OMG that's the most horrific thing I've heard! I hope those who do things like that will get their own special welcome in the place with the flames and spend eternity being skewered and tossed as bait!:wall:

:highfive::pray: We can only hope that's the least that awaits these :censored:!:frustrated:

JennieV
November 24th, 2008, 06:40 PM
Stacer, the vid shows virtually nothing...The dog is fine and back home with his owners...As far as I could tell from the article.
There is one thing I can say to this, and I beg you all not to see this as though I am condoning this...In these third world places, kitties and doggies are disregarded. They are NOT part of a family, they are NOT valuable in any way. People skin them, eat them and yes, probably fish with them. It is sick and horrible, and my stomach turns just thinking of it, but it is their reality. It is their life. That is the only way they know. :sad::sad:

When we went for our honeymoon in Dominican Republic, we took a day trip...Our bus was stopped in traffic and I was just looking out of the window. Well, I sure wish I wasn't, because I actually SAW a guy skinning a dog. It was definitely a dog, and he was probably going to cook it. So sad and yet I cannot condemn them for doing it. it is the only way they know how to survive. :shrug:

Now having said that, I do not think that bait requires a kitty or a doggy necessarily, and I think that their government should step in and get involved in protecting the animals...Also, is it not illegal to fish for shark???

Karin
November 25th, 2008, 12:17 AM
Stacer, the vid shows virtually nothing...The dog is fine and back home with his owners...As far as I could tell from the article.
There is one thing I can say to this, and I beg you all not to see this as though I am condoning this...In these third world places, kitties and doggies are disregarded. They are NOT part of a family, they are NOT valuable in any way. People skin them, eat them and yes, probably fish with them. It is sick and horrible, and my stomach turns just thinking of it, but it is their reality. It is their life. That is the only way they know. :sad::sad:

When we went for our honeymoon in Dominican Republic, we took a day trip...Our bus was stopped in traffic and I was just looking out of the window. Well, I sure wish I wasn't, because I actually SAW a guy skinning a dog. It was definitely a dog, and he was probably going to cook it. So sad and yet I cannot condemn them for doing it. it is the only way they know how to survive. :shrug:

Now having said that, I do not think that bait requires a kitty or a doggy necessarily, and I think that their government should step in and get involved in protecting the animals...Also, is it not illegal to fish for shark???

What happens in another country's cultures, must stay there. This is a fact of life. In other country's/cultures their prime meat is dogs and cats too..among others. This is something I respect because of cultural differences. Who are we to judge? We are looked down on for our own choices in food.
When it happens here against our laws we can judge. The guy fishing for alligators did serve time.
Like I said, I did not see the video so I do not know the content. I haven't been fishing in a while and I do love to fish, shark is good but not my first choice. We have a limit of one per day now, my neighbor brought me a great black tip fillet last week and it's already history.
I do put blinders on when it comes to other country's practices when it concerns what we call pets...most of these cultures way back throughout history are the ones who domesticated the animals we now know as pets.
Maybe we should work on our own continent first.

flipgirl4
November 26th, 2008, 02:24 AM
I understand that in different cultures, dogs and cats are viewed differently. I'm part filipino and they make stewed dog there. It's not something I practice but dogs there are a source of food as opposed to a member of the family.

If we look at North Americans, aren't oysters, clams and caviar eaten alive? Do we not use live worms or minnows as bait? Do we not catch fish with a sharp hook? Even if we throw the fish back, the fish goes back with a hole in its gill or whatever part got hooked. Not to mention the millions of animals that are slaughtered everyday for our eating enjoyment.

I cannot imagine putting a hook in a live dog's body and not be tormented by the dog's yelps but I'm not sure I can judge either. Whether this is urban legend or not, I remain 'innocent' by not thinking about this conflict I have in my head.:confused:

NoahGrey
November 26th, 2008, 08:00 AM
What happens in another country's cultures, must stay there. This is a fact of life..

Are you serious. Sorry but animal cruelty is not a culturely thing.

Like I said, I did not see the video so I do not know the content. I haven't been fishing in a while and I do love to fish.

I think the point here is that they are using live animals for bait, not that they are fishing.

I do put blinders on when it comes to other country's practices when it concerns what we call pets.

Huh. Are you serious? So animals that are not pets, can be subjected to cruel treatment.

Maybe we should work on our own continent first.

No, we should as a whole society, we should work together and end animal cruelty in every part of the world.

Here is a sticker you should print off.



ACO22

Kai'smom
November 26th, 2008, 08:25 AM
As I am sure you know cage shark diving and shark viewing is one of South Africa's biggest attractions and hundreds of thousands do it every year. Which is fine if it floats your boat. It has always been standard practice to use seals as bait. Live or dead. Even if they are dead, they have purposely killed for bait, so either or, is just a matter of timing and duration of pain.
I really dont like it, as my boys surf and they love the seals who often take shore breaks with them and pop up occassionally to give you the fright of your life. I have never heard of dogs being used EVER before. Basically anything that emits blood can be used. All shark baiting should be stopped as its also making the sharks frustrated and making them get to close to the boats, which can be a problem if you are not shark diving!!! again you can thank mankind - need sharks to make money from tourists - find something weak that bleeds - that will work and to hell with the consequences. How sad our fellow human beings are.

NoahGrey
November 26th, 2008, 08:33 AM
I remain 'innocent' by not thinking about this conflict I have in my head.:confused:

Translation: The famous "Out of sight, out of mind" mentality. As long as society has this mentality, animals will be subjected to abuse,neglect and cruel treatment.

ACO22

Aston
November 27th, 2008, 05:49 AM
Translation: The famous "Out of sight, out of mind" mentality. As long as society has this mentality, animals will be subjected to abuse,neglect and cruel treatment.

ACO22


http://elffster.netfirms.com/Elfsms/Hand_Clap_URL.gif

You are so right! the majority of the so called "animal friends" prefer not to think, instead of doing something to change the situations. It´s a lot easier to think that somebody will do it for us.

And believe me, all of us can make the difference if we are willing to.

p13m4n
November 27th, 2008, 04:05 PM
Are you serious. Sorry but animal cruelty is not a culturely thing.
Feel free to disagree with me, but; let me put it this way. Say I was an Indian person talking to someone who eats beef (I would assume that this would be representative of a large portion of the world population - I tried to look up a specific percentage, with no luck).
"Hey! Don't eat beef! Cows are sacred where I live! That's animal cruelty! Animal cruelty is not a 'culturely' thing! I don't eat beef, so you shouldn't either!"
People do what they need to survive. There's nothing wrong with that (except for driving species to extinction, but that's for another time).
I suggest you focus your anger on issues that are more serious. Genocides? World Hunger?

Anyways - no need to be 'butthurt' over an isolated incident. Anybody who starts these 'online petitions' (*scoff*) and facebook groups, not doing any sort of research (searching 'reunion shark' on Google brings the snopes page as the first result) and spreading disinformation (or rather misinformation as a result of disinformation) are just seeking attention.

aslan
November 27th, 2008, 04:14 PM
p13m4n the comment ACO22 made had nothing to do with whether or not the animals are used for food. The comment was i'm assuming(ACO22) correct me if i'm wrong...the way the animals are treated while going through the process. Putting a huge steal hook through the face of a live dog( or any other animal) then dragging it through the water for a shark to munch on is cruel. The way our society treats it's food animals in the most part is also cruel.

NoahGrey
November 27th, 2008, 04:24 PM
p13m4n the comment ACO22 made had nothing to do with whether or not the animals are used for food. The comment was i'm assuming(ACO22) correct me if i'm wrong..QUOTE]

No, you are right. Thanks.

[QUOTE=p13m4n;701891]I suggest you focus your anger on issues that are more serious.

Animal Cruelty is a serious issue to me, no matter what part of the world.

ACO22

p13m4n
November 27th, 2008, 04:38 PM
p13m4n the comment ACO22 made had nothing to do with whether or not the animals are used for food. The comment was i'm assuming(ACO22) correct me if i'm wrong...the way the animals are treated while going through the process. Putting a huge steal hook through the face of a live dog( or any other animal) then dragging it through the water for a shark to munch on is cruel. The way our society treats it's food animals in the most part is also cruel.

Two things.

ACO22 was quoting post #21.
What happens in another country's cultures, must stay there. This is a fact of life. In other country's/cultures their prime meat is dogs and cats too..among others. This is something I respect because of cultural differences. Who are we to judge? We are looked down on for our own choices in food.Are you serious. Sorry but animal cruelty is not a culturely thing.
I don't see how ACO22 meant the way people kill animals for food.

I don't know if that person was fishing for food for himself (people catch sharks for their fins, then sell it to the Chinese black market - multimillion business, triads involved, etc.)... Anyways, like Snopes' research says, this was an isolated incident, with the perpetrator caught and punished. This isn't the way of a culture. Aren't we talking about the ways of different cultures here?


No, you are right. Thanks.



Animal Cruelty is a serious issue to me, no matter what part of the world.

ACO22
Please, explain how you meant 'the way the animals are treated while going through the process.'

aslan
November 27th, 2008, 05:02 PM
because the thread is about live dogs being used as shark bait. having seen aco22 post before i guess i'm used to how he/she posts. the topic i'm pretty sure is what she was following. yes dog is a main meat in some contries and i can't say if it's right or wrong, Not my choice. the conditions they are kept in is wrong. the conditions cattle,chickens,pigs etc, are kept in here is wrong. And i'm sorry but using a live animal , drag it behind a boat to catch and kill another is just as wrong.

considering what ACO does for a living, yup i can see how this would ruffle a few feathers, the majority of humans lately seem to treat their animals like crap.

Karin
November 28th, 2008, 12:14 AM
[QUOTE=aslan;701902]p13m4n the comment ACO22 made had nothing to do with whether or not the animals are used for food. The comment was i'm assuming(ACO22) correct me if i'm wrong..QUOTE]

No, you are right. Thanks.



Animal Cruelty is a serious issue to me, no matter what part of the world.

ACO22

As it is with me, I too have worked in "your" position, also with conservation.
Other country's and their practices, which most have been around long before our free world was even conceived, have been in the practice of eating certain animals we consider "pets", believe me when I say this really gross's me out...but, this is a lifestyle that precedes us. I do not believe with interfering with other cultures (country's) and their practices.
It is no difference imho animals or people. What give's us the right ? Educate , yes.

Do not flame me, I am on your side, but you also need to take your blinders off and see the real world for what it is.
To try to control what goes on in other civilizations abroad is kinda what Hitler was doing right? I was hoping we have gotten past that by now.
Africa is trying real hard after some education.
You must have PETA bloodlines.

NoahGrey
November 29th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Other country's and their practices, which most have been around long before our free world was even conceived, have been in the practice of eating certain animals we consider "pets", believe me when I say this really gross's me out...but, this is a lifestyle that precedes us. I do not believe with interfering with other cultures (country's) and their practices.
It is no difference imho animals or people. What give's us the right ? Educate , yes..

While you are right in Countries and their practices have been practing animal cruelty for decades. Do you think this makes it right? I don't. I have to mention that I am not talking about what animals, people consume for meat. Yes, I know that different cultures have different views on what should be eaten and what shouldn't.

What I am talking about is HOW they are being killed? Most are skinned alive, Eletractcuted and other means of torture. This is what has to be stopped, in my opinion. Just because it is a different culture, doesn't mean that animals should be subjected to abuse and torture.


but you also need to take your blinders off and see the real world for what it is..

Sorry, but my blinders are off, hence why I am fighting for animals rights ALL OVER the world. Not just the country that I live in. Seems like you have your blinders on with the "out of sight, out of mind" mentality. Your thinking of 'not my country, I don't live there' attutude is very depressing and coming from another person who fights for the protection of animals on a daily basis, you attutude is frightning. If everyone had your mentality, cruelty to animals will never end.

You must have PETA bloodlines.

Actually I am not a member of Peta. I do find them extreme at times, but they are fighting for animals rights on a global level. Can't argue with that.

ACO22

Mat&Murph
November 29th, 2008, 01:13 PM
I agree, ACO22. Nobody is telling anybody what to eat. Just stop putting innocent animals in unnesscary pain and torture.
I hate the fact that some cultures eat dogs and cats but can't say too much as my family does eat beef, pork,etc. But we don't want to see a cow skinned alive for it.

I believe cruelty has to stop on a global level

kiara
November 29th, 2008, 01:59 PM
Could not watch, way too painful. I agree these are not people, they are monsters. I hope they will get their punishment one day.

p13m4n
November 29th, 2008, 06:55 PM
You know, a different culture means a different set of morals as well...

And I don't see why anyone here would even support PETA, they want the whole concept of pets eradicated. Not to mention that they use extreme, unethical methods to try to accomplish their goals.
Here's the PETA episode of 'Penn & Teller: Bull****!' Should open your eyes a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsHUBEfBNMo&feature=PlayList&p=92CB033B607D42E8&index=0&playnext=1

ancientgirl
November 29th, 2008, 07:32 PM
I like the concept of PETA. But I have a problem with it's execution of their message at times. They do go to extremes, and I can understand why, but people don't like that kind of thing. It's like a person who isn't really religious having someone who was a born again Christian constantly telling them how they need to be saved.

The fact that as an organization they want to help animals is fantastic. I've got a lot of information from them when I turned vegetarian, but much of it disturbed me. I had already made my decision so it wasn't really necessary to bombard me with pictures of animals on factory farms or chickens in boxes. Those were the reasons for my decision and I didn't need to see it, it's ingrained in my mind forever.

I think if they communicated in a different way more people would listen. And as far as eradicating having pets, that'll never happen. There is something special about having an animal in your life, or several :laughing:

While there are many who neglect and abuse, there are many who rescue and pamper. If someone from PETA came to my door telling me I should not keep my cats, I'd advise them to tell their story walking.

Schwinn
November 29th, 2008, 08:26 PM
I don't think that because something happens in another country, they should have carte blanche to do what they will, because "who are we to judge?". By that token, we should have stayed out of Kosovo (have I got the right country?) when Milosovic was attempting to commit genocide with the Kurds, and the holocaust was really "none of our business", since it started with German Jews. So, to say that we don't think it's right to for another country to allow their animals to be treated cruelly, in my mind, is certainly within our rights. As long as we live in a society that eats animals for food, no, we can't point the finger at other cultures and countries that use animal for food or bait, but we can certainly comment on how they're treated. (and that includes our own country and how our animals are treated. Veal, for example, is banned from this house, and that used to be a staple when I was younger...)

As far as PETA goes, there are plenty of groups who causes I support, and I won't go near those groups. Personally, I'd like to tie Ingrid Newkirk to a chair and slap her silly with a raw steak...

Frenchy
November 29th, 2008, 10:44 PM
Are you serious. Sorry but animal cruelty is not a culturely thing.




I 100% agree


Other country's and their practices, which most have been around long before our free world was even conceived,




So what ? Doesn't make them right ! How about clitoris ablation ? It's a cultural thing ... so it's ok ? :rolleyes:

It's freaking 2008 , those countries should get with the program ! Pet wise AND human wise.

Mat&Murph
November 30th, 2008, 02:26 AM
Well said Frenchy!!!!

p13m4n
December 1st, 2008, 10:37 AM
I don't think that because something happens in another country, they should have carte blanche to do what they will, because "who are we to judge?". By that token, we should have stayed out of Kosovo (have I got the right country?) when Milosovic was attempting to commit genocide with the Kurds, and the holocaust was really "none of our business", since it started with German Jews. So, to say that we don't think it's right to for another country to allow their animals to be treated cruelly, in my mind, is certainly within our rights.

So what ? Doesn't make them right ! How about clitoris ablation ? It's a cultural thing ... so it's ok ? :rolleyes:

It's freaking 2008 , those countries should get with the program ! Pet wise AND human wise.

Valid points, except that in general, a human life is valued way more than an animal's. Rightly so, in my opinion. It's frightening how it's the exact opposite for many people.

aslan
December 1st, 2008, 10:50 AM
hmmm that seems extremely arogant to me, who says humans are worth more than and animal. Only a human would think that. It isn't the animals destroying the earth and it's atmosphere it's us humans who think we are better than all of gods other creations. unbelievable, truly unbelievable.

ancientgirl
December 1st, 2008, 10:54 AM
I've known quite a few animals who are a whole lot better than many people I've met in my life. Your measuring stick might be a little flawed.

Aslan, you are correct. We are the ones taking everything from this planet. We take what we need and what we don't. Animals take only what they need and don't waste a bit of it.

p13m4n
December 1st, 2008, 11:50 AM
hmmm that seems extremely arogant to me, who says humans are worth more than and animal. Only a human would think that. It isn't the animals destroying the earth and it's atmosphere it's us humans who think we are better than all of gods other creations. unbelievable, truly unbelievable.
We ARE better than all of 'god's' other creations. Reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour among various other things separates us from animals. I'll stop eating beef when a cow tells me not to.

Love4himies
December 1st, 2008, 12:16 PM
We ARE better than all of 'god's' other creations. Reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour among various other things separates us from animals. I'll stop eating beef when a cow tells me not to.

That makes us more intelligent, but not better.

BenMax
December 1st, 2008, 12:47 PM
We ARE better than all of 'god's' other creations. Reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour among various other things separates us from animals. I'll stop eating beef when a cow tells me not to.

I am a cow and I am saying 'stop eating beef'. There...I said it....MOO!

Love4himies
December 1st, 2008, 12:49 PM
I am a cow and I am saying 'stop eating beef'. There...I said it....MOO!

:laughing::laughing:

aslan
December 1st, 2008, 12:52 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

BenMax
December 1st, 2008, 12:54 PM
Oh well lookie here - there is Aslan the roaring lamb and L4H the 3 legged chicken all saying 'don't eat the cow'!

ancientgirl
December 1st, 2008, 01:04 PM
We ARE better than all of 'god's' other creations. Reason, language, inquiry, wonder, longing, religion, morality, aesthetics, creativity, imagination, aspiration and humour among various other things separates us from animals. I'll stop eating beef when a cow tells me not to.

You are generalizing all of human kind into those traits. Again, I've known lots of people who are neither creative, reasonable, humorous or moral.

Animals are curious and they do have humor, and are quite creative when they need to be. You've obviously never really taken the time to observe an animal at great length, but you probably don't want to.

I don't think I'm better than anything or anybody. And what God deems as better is only for him/her to say. For all we know, he could be wondering what the heck he was thinking when he created man, that is if you believe that in the first place.

Given the choice to save a dog or a cat, or save Ted Bundy, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, I know for sure who I'd save. And it won't be the two legged ones.

BenMax
December 1st, 2008, 01:14 PM
You are generalizing all of human kind into those traits. Again, I've known lots of people who are neither creative, reasonable, humorous or moral.

Animals are curious and they do have humor, and are quite creative when they need to be. You've obviously never really taken the time to observe an animal at great length, but you probably don't want to.

I don't think I'm better than anything or anybody. And what God deems as better is only for him/her to say. For all we know, he could be wondering what the heck he was thinking when he created man, that is if you believe that in the first place.

Given the choice to save a dog or a cat, or save Ted Bundy, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, I know for sure who I'd save. And it won't be the two legged ones.

Thank you Ancientgirl for pointing this out - especially your last paragraph!

ancientgirl
December 1st, 2008, 01:21 PM
I'm sorry, but it's just that I don't buy into this any and all human life is worth more than an animal. Not when we live in the world we do and see the atrocities we, the humans have, are and will continue to cause.

Love4himies
December 1st, 2008, 01:30 PM
Great post ag :thumbs up. A better being is one who loves unconditionally.

p13m4n
December 1st, 2008, 02:00 PM
You are generalizing all of human kind into those traits. Again, I've known lots of people who are neither creative, reasonable, humorous or moral.

Animals are curious and they do have humor, and are quite creative when they need to be. You've obviously never really taken the time to observe an animal at great length, but you probably don't want to.

I don't think I'm better than anything or anybody. And what God deems as better is only for him/her to say. For all we know, he could be wondering what the heck he was thinking when he created man, that is if you believe that in the first place.

Given the choice to save a dog or a cat, or save Ted Bundy, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler, I know for sure who I'd save. And it won't be the two legged ones.
Just because some people don't have desirable traits, doesn't mean that they don't have the capacity to. Could you also provide me with a study of some sort that proves that animals have a sense of humor?
Given the choice to save a starving child with potential to better the entire world, or save an aggressive wild animal who would just maul me and be on its way, I'd sure pick the two legged one.
I'm sorry, but it's just that I don't buy into this any and all human life is worth more than an animal. Not when we live in the world we do and see the atrocities we, the humans have, are and will continue to cause.
I never meant nor said 'any and all,' and out of the billions of us, of course there would be bad apples (as with animals). But in general, humans are definitely worth more than animals.

I am a cow and I am saying 'stop eating beef'. There...I said it....MOO!
Oh well lookie here - there is Aslan the roaring lamb and L4H the 3 legged chicken all saying 'don't eat the cow'!
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1382/facepalm2ly3.jpg

aslan
December 1st, 2008, 02:06 PM
p13 you also can't come up with proof that animals don't have a sense of humour, they do long, how many animals pine to death due to the loss of a loved one, do you really want to use religion, how many people have been murdered in the name of religion.The world trade centres come to mind. It is a human opinion that we are better than animals. for all you know god is an animal, hmmmm isn't god , dog spelled backwards.

as for the two legged child over the vicious dog. I would rather save the loving cuddle bum puppy that turns into a rescue dog, than waste my time on the next two legged serial killer.

AmericanBullMom
December 1st, 2008, 02:13 PM
P13.... you make it so hard to try to be nice to you. Go Troll another Forum! Sheesh:wall:

Love4himies
December 1st, 2008, 02:14 PM
Given the choice to save a starving child with potential to better the entire world, or save an aggressive wild animal who would just maul me and be on its way, I'd sure pick the two legged one.


Just because one animal doesn't have desirable traists and would maul you doesn't mean that animal doesn't have the capacity to love unconditionally

I never meant nor said 'any and all,' and out of the billions of us, of course there would be bad apples (as with animals). But in general, humans are definitely worth more than animals.

Ummmmm humans are animals :D

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1382/facepalm2ly3.jpg

There is no way to that we can know what or how an animal feels or thinks. They communicate just fine amongst their species as we do as humans.

ancientgirl
December 1st, 2008, 02:15 PM
p13, I'm not going to go through the internet to find proof you will either not read nor believe. I get the feeling nothing I would present would change your mind. Jane Goodall has spent years studying apes and chimpanzees, maybe you can ask her if they have a sense of humor. I'm sure you'd be surprised.

At this stage though, I'm going to agree to disagree with you. I don't want to get into a discussion because this is my opinion, an opinion I believe I share with many animal lovers, both on this board and off. I doubt you will come to my way of thinking ever.

Believe what you wish. I for one will go about my life knowing I share it with 5 very intelligent, creative, and emotionally aware animals.

aslan
December 1st, 2008, 02:19 PM
ag all i have to say is :2huggers::thankyou:

p13m4n
December 1st, 2008, 02:36 PM
as for the two legged child over the vicious dog. I would rather save the loving cuddle bum puppy that turns into a rescue dog, than waste my time on the next two legged serial killer.
Ummmmm humans are animals :D
*facepalm* Way to miss the point.
Just because one animal doesn't have desirable traists and would maul you doesn't mean that animal doesn't have the capacity to love unconditionally
Just the fact that animals don't have to ability to think about how they're treated and act accordingly, instead loving unconditionally, proves that they are inferior to humans.
p13 you also can't come up with proof that animals don't have a sense of humour, they do long, how many animals pine to death due to the loss of a loved one,
Just because animals can feel basic emotions, doesn't mean that they're as intelligent as humans.
do you really want to use religion, how many people have been murdered in the name of religion.The world trade centres come to mind. It is a human opinion that we are better than animals.
Just the fact that humans have the brain capacity to not 'think in the moment' and come up with a concept such as religion and have opinions, proves that humans are superior to animals.
for all you know god is an animal, hmmmm isn't god , dog spelled backwards.
Just... *sigh*

At this stage though, I'm going to agree to disagree with you.
Agreed, this is getting boring. Nobody in this thread ATM will acknowledge anything I say anyways. Ignorance is bliss, indeed. It's been fun arguing with you. :thumbs up

ancientgirl
December 1st, 2008, 02:40 PM
Ignorance is bliss, indeed.

Same to you.:D

BenMax
December 1st, 2008, 02:41 PM
It is getting boring as you have nothing really to add. Argueing? Sorry but I hardly call this a good arguement...

marko
December 1st, 2008, 02:42 PM
This is a fascinating debate and as long as it stays civil it will stay open.

That said, it seems like people are unlikely to be swayed to either side so round and round it goes.

Personally,.... yeah right.:D

Thanks all,

Marko

Chris21711
December 1st, 2008, 02:43 PM
Agreed, this is getting boring. Nobody in this thread ATM will acknowledge anything I say anyways. Ignorance is bliss, indeed. It's been fun arguing with you. :thumbs up

I'm guessing peeps don't like what you are saying. Here, I share 44879

BenMax
December 1st, 2008, 02:43 PM
It remains civil Marko. Thanks for monitoring.

p13m4n
December 1st, 2008, 02:49 PM
It is getting boring as you have nothing really to add. Argueing? Sorry but I hardly call this a good arguement...

I hardly call mooing a good 'arguement' either. I've also yet to see you come up with an argument. Way to assume, by the way. Are you a psychic?

BenMax
December 1st, 2008, 02:52 PM
I hardly call mooing a good 'arguement' either. I've also yet to see you come up with an argument. Way to assume, by the way. Are you a psychic?

Umm let me think about that??? Yes I am psychic and I am also seeing in my crystal ball that things are not looking too bright for you. My cards say that there is a way to redeem yourself and that would take some apologies to all the insults that you have slung to many members here. How is that for being psychic??

Frenchy
December 1st, 2008, 08:45 PM
Agreed, this is getting boring.

Does this mean you'll be leaving for another forum ?

marko
December 1st, 2008, 11:12 PM
I'm sorry, I see no call to ask anyone to leave our forum.
This is a debate that has gone sour for some, but no rules were broken by this newish member. I'd like to leave this one open for now and hope that calmer posts will follow.

Thx
Marko

aslan
December 1st, 2008, 11:16 PM
I'm sorry, I see no call to ask anyone to leave our forum.
This is a debate that has gone sour for some, but no rules were broken by this newish member. I'd like to leave this one open for now and hope that calmer posts will follow.

Thx
Marko

lol, she didn't ask them to leave, she asked did this mean they would be leaving. :laughing: they said they were bored now.

Mat&Murph
December 2nd, 2008, 12:14 AM
Ben max I was wondering if you were physic.* BTW I loved the Moo!!!!:laughing:

marko
December 2nd, 2008, 08:31 AM
A new day and a new relook at this thread.
It has gone off topic - has become sour and will now be closed.