October 1st, 2008, 07:47 PM
Joined this forum hoping someone may have had similar experience and some suggestions.
My 15 year old cat has a mass obstructing the bile duct on his liver, so toxins aren't being removed from his blood among other things. And he is jaundiced.
Although his behaviour is normal right now (he's just yellowish), the Vet thinks he may not live more than a month more. However there is an outside chance that his liver is swollen because of a bad reaction to flea spray, which caused it to swell, which moved the mass to obstruct the duct - a week ago he was fine, so it happened quite suddenly even though the mass must have been there a few months or a couple of years.
So the longshot is this: if we can keep his blood toxicity down enough for the liver to un-swell as the insecticide irritation fades, the mass may resume its old position NOT obstructing the duct. Its a question of whether we can keep his blood functional long enough to prevent other catastrophic organ failures.
So my question is - has anyone else had a similar experience, and/or does anyone have real experience with supplements or foods that would help keep his blood clear (or at least mitigate toxins)? The Vet didn't suggest anything regarding diet, which struck me as strange when I thought about it this evening, but I'll ask more tomorrow. But the Vet doesn't seem to see much hope.
And for anyone who finds themselves trying to get rid of fleas - don't buy those cheap sprays and collars - the insecticides they use are not really safe. There are oral medications which are completely safe, having been through this I'm surprised companies are allowed to sell that stuff.
October 1st, 2008, 11:16 PM
Was there xrays done to determine the size & placement of the mass? Were you given options regarding surgery to remove the mass or does the vet think it is connected to or surrounding organs?
Has the vet mentioned kidney failure? The toxins not being removed from the body are going somewhere and the liver & the kidneys are the organs that deal with waste removal.
Has your cat had blood & urine work done recently?
I've never had liver issues in my cats, but my grrl has kidney failure which is being supported through a raw meat diet and kidney specific supplements from Standard Process.
Speak to your vet about their liver support specific supplements Standard Process Feline Hepatic Support (http://www.standardprocess.com/display/VeterinaryCatalog.spi?ID=348), Standard Process Feline Whole Body Support (http://www.standardprocess.com/display/VeterinaryCatalog.spi?ID=351) is also a good overall support supplement.
You may also wish to speak to your vet about supplementing with Nu Cat Vitamins (http://www.vetriscience.com/nucat.php) and DMG supplement (http://www.fslabs.com/vitamins-supplements/aangamik-dmg-300mg-liquid.php)
Some info on Liver disease in cats
October 2nd, 2008, 06:22 AM
I am sorry I don't have any advice for you, but do want to offer you a :2huggers: and send some :goodvibes: your way.
October 3rd, 2008, 06:29 AM
Thanks for info on foods Growler.
We had ultrasound not Xray, and there's nobody around here who can do the surgery, closest is a day's drive which the cat won't enjoy, and given his age it's not certain they'd operate. Our vet doesn't think he'd survive the surgery. Even a biopsy would be invasive and can't be done around here.
So we're not sure his kidney has failed, but the effect is the same. He had bloodwork done, so we know his toxicity is increasing.
So far he remains active, interested and normal, just yellow.
October 3rd, 2008, 07:11 AM
I was just researching Standard Process and discovered they are one of, maybe "The" most notorious quack medicine company in American history - founded by a DD who used the "doctor" part to create the illusion he was a medical doctor.
After convictions of their own representatives and owner, their recent strategy is to provide products to con artists or naive resellers, who then make the false claims for them - that way the reseller gets convicted, and Standard Process walks away.
This isn't even a "new age" supplier of herbal alternatives, their history is that they make fake everything, including fake alternative medicines I would suspect. Real modern snake oil makers according to FDA and many other records. I found reports of bogus medication being sold to chiropractors into 2008.
Some of their antics over the years are comic if they weren't so horrifying - backyard experiments on animals and such.
I'd suggest extreme caution with this stuff - the ingredients on their website look credible for what few things I can say anything about, but I guess the question would be if the country you're in tests products to match their labels. Maybe modern regulations have forced them to improve, but some reports don't sound like it.
See this page, but Google them and FDA, fraud, etc - lots more info on sites of medical and veterinary associations:
October 3rd, 2008, 12:12 PM
I can't really comment on the validity of Standard Process products (although I do know people who have used the Feline Enteric Support on their IBD cats with great success), but I'd like to comment on the National Council Against Health Fraud. You can't believe everything they say either. Very anti-alternative health, and have come out against pretty much every other health modality out there except for Big Pharmacy and allopathic medicine. Where the big bucks are. Highly critical of acupuncture, chiropracty, homeopathy, TCM, etc. Lost a big court case in California against a maker of homeopathic remedies. Some interesting reading (and to show that there are 2 sides to everything):
Anyway, sorry to hear about what you and your cat are going through. One of my cats had a completely blocked bile duct a few years ago and had to have emergency surgery to remove his about-to-burst gall bladder. His issue was related to Inflammatory Bowel Disease, which unfortunately was so severe that I had to euthanize him a month later. My fingers are crossed that your kitty has a better outcome. I have no idea if this would be appropriate in your situation, but maybe ask your vet about Actigall, which is a med that thins the bile fluid. Also I think a lower-fat diet is usually recommended in liver & bile related issues. An excellent product for liver support is Denamarin, a combo of Denosyl and Silymarin (milk thistle). You can get it from your vet if you're in the US, but in Canada you have to order it online.
Good luck! Let us know what happens.
October 16th, 2008, 09:10 AM
Non useful because it doesn't clarify what happened or why.
After the vet predicted inevitable and fairly quick doom, basically that my buddy was a dead man walking, my buddy promptly did exactly what the vet said wouldn't happen - got better.
The yellow is fading visibly, urine colour, appetite, all back to normal, strength coming back fast, etc.
Hoping it isn't a temporary break. But all the way though this he hasn't acted like he thought he was dying or even badly sick. He's always been a tough, stubborn little SOB so hoping it will keep him on course now.
Anyway - if its useful to anyone - he's on Denosyl daily at 5:30PM, Royal Canin K/D and Reduced Protein. Taken for 1 hour walks daily (but that's because he loves walks, probably not for all cats).
@sugarcatmom - I know what you're saying, at first I thought it was just another case of "mainstream" vs "alternative" but it looks more like Standard Process vs Everyone. A lot of those watchdog groups are protecting their own interests though, so it is true you have to filter what they say.