Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Putting to Sleep or Not ====

itayl2
September 27th, 2008, 01:43 AM
Hi........

I have a precious 13 year old miniature poodle, I love her dearly.

for the past few months her condition has worsened, she suffered some neurological damage, and she now cannot walk or get up, she has a bit of a problem eating / drinking (appetite goes on and off, and she has problems opening her jaw enough due to the damage mentioned),
and she obviously can't go the water / food on her own.

She is currently with a diaper because her "needs" are irregular and every time she peed on herself it broke our hearts.

All doctors say there is not much of a chance to even get her back to half a capable as she was a year ago, and they believe (don't really know) she is uncomfortable / in pain (tumor causing the neurological damage, and removing it will probably kill her).

We of course hug and pet her all the time, but we are unsure in regards to her mental condition, we do not know if she's happy, we know she has changed recently and she is less happy.


But what to do? the doctors say euthanasia is the right way to go, because she will be much better off. But I'm having trouble with it, because I can't know if she'd want it, I can't know if she's happy, if she has much to lose.


Please answer quickly, the time is extremely near........

Scuba
September 27th, 2008, 02:58 AM
You stated that your family knows she has changed recently and isn't as happy now. Think about that please, sleep on it even.

I don't know your dog, I didn't spend 13 years of my life with her. But you have to consider her quality of life. I think that is important in a situation like this. Sorry, that I couldn't help you make a decision but that I understand a little of what you are going through mentally right now.

You have my support either way. Wish you, your Miniature Poodle and family all the best.

rainbow
September 27th, 2008, 03:24 AM
Itayl2, I am very sorry to hear about your dog. :grouphug:

I know how hard it is to let them go and lots of us here have had to do it more than once. Only you can make the decision but it is her quality of life that is most important.

Please don't let her suffer and we are here when you need us. :grouphug:

rainbow
September 27th, 2008, 04:05 AM
:grouphug: I replied to your other thread.....

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=56967

14+kitties
September 27th, 2008, 06:22 AM
Maybe this will help a little. I think it says just about everything. :grouphug:

MAY I GO

by Susan A. Jackson

May I go now?
Do you think the time is right?
May I say goodbye to pain filled days
and endless lonely nights?

I've lived my life and done my best,
an example tried to be.
So can I take that step beyond
and set my spirit free?

I didn't want to go at first,
I fought with all my might.
But something seems to draw me now
to a warm and loving light.

I want to go. I really do.
It's difficult to stay.
But I will try as best I can
to live just one more day.

To give you time to care for me
and share your love and fears.
I know you're sad and afraid,
because I see your tears.

I'll not be far, I promise that,
and hope you'll always know
that my spirit will be close to you
wherever you may go.

Thank you so for loving me.
You know I love you, too.
That's why it's hard to say goodbye
and end this life with you.

So hold me now just one more time
and let me hear you say,
because you care so much for me,
you'll let me go today.

Dedicated to everyone who has ever had to put down a beloved dog.

Author: Susan A. Jackson

kathryn
September 27th, 2008, 06:30 AM
She's probably too far gone. I have issues with putting my pets down and my mom always has to make the final decision. For my last dog he was in a diaper too and got to be pretty bad for about the last week of his life but I couldn't let him go. I guess it was kind of selfish, but I was only about 13 at the time and didn't really know any better.

I would say you should listen to what the vets say to do. She's very old so even if you did go threw with any treatments or surgeries, she might not survive those or even if she did and got all better, how much time would she even have left? A few months?


Situations like this are tough. I wish pets could just live till their old and die naturally but that never seems to happen :sad:

sugarcatmom
September 27th, 2008, 10:47 AM
It's pretty tough to have to make these decisions, no doubt about it. What's amazing is that we have the ability to give our pets this ultimate gift, to free them from their pain and suffering. I find this Quality of Life Scale (http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-practice-news-columns/oncology-outlook/quality-of-life-for-pets.aspx) developed by oncology vet Dr. Alice Villalobos to be hugely valuable in helping to determine when the time is right. Please sit down with the rest of your family and go through the different categories together.

:grouphug:

Soter
September 30th, 2008, 06:12 AM
What's amazing is that we have the ability to give our pets this ultimate gift, to free them from their pain and suffering.


What is also amazing is that we think we have the right to decide who lives and who dies on this earth.


I hate seeing any animal in pain, but i personally don't agree with putting something to sleep. I think only God can make this descision, not us, but we all don't share the same religeon, so it is a case of opinion.

sugarcatmom
September 30th, 2008, 07:50 AM
What is also amazing is that we think we have the right to decide who lives and who dies on this earth.


I hate seeing any animal in pain, but i personally don't agree with putting something to sleep. I think only God can make this descision, not us, but we all don't share the same religeon, so it is a case of opinion.

You might just change your opinion some day when you're faced with a pet that is terminally ill, crying in pain and looks into your eyes pleading for you to do something. Until you've been in that position, keep your god and your religion to yourself. I think you have some growing up to do.

Soter
September 30th, 2008, 07:59 AM
We are on the

on topic- pet chat opinions fellings and rants by the way

its called an opinion

But then again, i am actually sorry for sharing my opinion, because i realize that most of the people on this forum are all for putting to sleep, so i am very very sorry for causing any offence if i did.

Soter
September 30th, 2008, 08:01 AM
maybe i do have some growing up to do. i should take from the more experienced person i guess, and it seems like you sugarcatmom are the more experienced :sorry:

Soter
September 30th, 2008, 08:13 AM
im :oembarrassed now me & my big mouth (well, hands typing)

i hope it all goes well itayl2 :pray::sad:

sugarcatmom
September 30th, 2008, 08:26 AM
im :oembarrassed now me & my big mouth (well, hands typing)


Sorry if my response was a bit harsh, but having had to end the suffering of animals in the past, I know it's not a decision that is made lightly. It's an agonizing dilemma where you're fully conscious of the fact that you're ending a life.

The reference that someone is "playing god" by doing that demeans the experience and makes it sound too easy.

And unless you're a vegan, it's also hypocritical.

Soter
September 30th, 2008, 08:32 AM
Sorry if my response was a bit harsh,

don't worry about it

And unless you're a vegan, it's also hypocritical.

whats a vegan??

Love4himies
September 30th, 2008, 08:37 AM
I am so sorry to hear about your poodle :grouphug:. Such a difficult, heart wrenching decision, but such a selfless one. Go with your gut feelings, if you look your baby in the eye and see pain, it is time to let her be free.

clm
September 30th, 2008, 08:59 AM
whats a vegan??

Vegetarian

clm

Kai'smom
September 30th, 2008, 09:26 AM
I read all of these posts with a lot of interest as its the dilemma that i'm in at the moment. It is surely the hardest decision that anyone is faced with. I think at the end of the day, we all know how much we have loved our pets, what kind of life we given them and if you know you have loved them to the hilt and given them a good, safe, clean and happy enviroment to have lived in, you will be secure in any decision that you have made. Im not saying it wont hurt like hell, but so long as you are acting out of love for your pet; not thinking of how you will feel when they are gone.... but your pet.... the right answer will come to you. Its taken me months of tears, renaging on appointments, arguing with vets and specialist and my husband, thousands of rands, but once i got chatting to you guys and saw that what i was feeling and going through had been dealt with before by so many caring people, i didnt feel alone and i didnt feel like i was a mental case!
I had guys in my office offer to take my dog and have him put to sleep for me. Totally nonchalont, like they were offering to drop off my dry cleaning. It made me feel physically sick and saddened by peoples lack of empathy.

Helen0423
September 30th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Itayl2, I am very sorry to hear about your dog. :grouphug:

I know how hard it is to let them go and lots of us here have had to do it more than once. Only you can make the decision but it is her quality of life that is most important.

Please don't let her suffer and we are here when you need us. :grouphug:

I think Rainbow said it perfectly!

DoubleRR
September 30th, 2008, 12:28 PM
I am sorry to hear of your beloved poodle. Only you can see when the dog has had enough--they generally let those closest to them know. <hug>


I had guys in my office offer to take my dog and have him put to sleep for me. Totally nonchalont, like they were offering to drop off my dry cleaning. It made me feel physically sick and saddened by peoples lack of empathy.

You may be surprised that some of us who offer to do this are full of empathy for both you and your pets. I have taken several failing animals to the vet for people who simply cannot do what they know needs to be done. It is not easy, but I know in my heart the animal comes first--we are their caretakers.
What you perceived as nonchalance may have been those guys trying to make it seem no imposition to them for them to help you. It came off as crass and uncaring unfortunately. Everyone's reality is different, just giving you another version to ponder.

Bina
September 30th, 2008, 12:41 PM
The thing with animals is that they usually hide most of their pain. It is part of the survival instinct.
Try to do what is most humane for the doggie....we all wish that God could come along and make the choice for us at the right time, but we know that does not always work out.
If I was terminally ill and suffering, I would prefer to pass away and sleep in the hands of loved ones.
My mended heart goes out to you.

BenMax
September 30th, 2008, 12:49 PM
I do (or did) whatever possible to prolong my pet's lives but with reason. I reguarly went to the vet to ensure that my pet's did not suffer - but the first sign that I saw, I made that call. My vet is honest enough to say to me when it was time for me to let go. Since I struggled tremendously, the vet always told me the facts on what my beloved pet was feeling - I could not live with myself for hanging on when I was not the one feeling the physical suffering. I let go...relunctantly of course - but could not bear to know that my friend was suffering.

It is a difficult decision - but I would hope to h*ll that a family member would make that decision for me - if I could not express my pain or suffering.

Bless you both.

joeysmama
September 30th, 2008, 09:56 PM
I think that the poor baby has almost no quality of life if she can't even get a drink of water for herself. Can you imagine the helplessness of being in pain and not being able to get, or even ask for, a drink?

I completely understand how you feel. I let Joey suffer for too long because I couldn't bear the thought of saying "ok, today is the day he dies." It really does feel that harsh. I can understand where Soter is coming from because that was playing in my mind, that thought that I had no right to call the shot on life or death.

But.... the sad reality with dogs is that one of their survival mechanisms is the ability and need to hide pain. So by the time your dog is signaling that she's in pain she is probably in nearly unbearable pain.

I feel for you and I understand both sides but I can tell you that if I could go back in time I would have let Joey go sooner than I did. It wasn't any easier for having waited. Not for me and CERTAINLY not for him.


:grouphug: for you !! Please let us know what you decide.

joeysmama
September 30th, 2008, 10:00 PM
FYI (off topic) A vegetarian is someone who eats no meat or fish. If you are vegetarian nothing dies for your plate.

A vegan is someone who eats no animal products at all. That means that you wouldn't eat eggs, or milk or honey. Even though it doesn't cost a life to eat them, it may have come at the expense of the animals quality of life. (factory farming etc.)

People choose these lifestyles for health reasons and/or ethical reasons. Most vegans (at least the ones I know) will not wear leather, use soap with lanolin etc. And refined sugar is not included in a vegan diet because it is generally bleached by running it through charred bones.

Karin
September 30th, 2008, 10:40 PM
Why did this post go on so long?

joeysmama
September 30th, 2008, 11:35 PM
Why did this post go on so long?


I think because everyone is trying to gently tell the OP that it's okay to let go. Most of these posts are little cyber hugs I think.

Kai'smom
October 1st, 2008, 04:39 AM
I am sorry to hear of your beloved poodle. Only you can see when the dog has had enough--they generally let those closest to them know. <hug>




You may be surprised that some of us who offer to do this are full of empathy for both you and your pets. I have taken several failing animals to the vet for people who simply cannot do what they know needs to be done. It is not easy, but I know in my heart the animal comes first--we are their caretakers.
What you perceived as nonchalance may have been those guys trying to make it seem no imposition to them for them to help you. It came off as crass and uncaring unfortunately. Everyone's reality is different, just giving you another version to ponder.

You are probaby right, they arent bad guys, but i suppose as i was upset i couldnt see the fact that that were just trying to help me out of a difficult thing. Again, another persons perspective makes the world of difference. I guess i better offer them some coffee since i have ignored them for the past two weeks.

Soter
October 2nd, 2008, 08:13 AM
FYI (off topic)
A vegan is someone who eats no animal products at all. That means that you wouldn't eat eggs, or milk or honey. Even though it doesn't cost a life to eat them, it may have come at the expense of the animals quality of life. (factory farming etc.)

Does this mean that they also don't use leather, or sheepskin/wool??

I heard on the news about the appaling living conditions of some factory farmed chickens. There are chicks living there in a sunless enviroment, with no perches to stand on, so that means their legs are badly damged, so they become lame, and when they are lame they cannot reach the food and water things so they starve, and if they do survive, they live for a mere 30 days of pure hell. I feel for all animals in that horrible state!!:sad:

doggy lover
October 2nd, 2008, 08:36 AM
Sorry to hear that you dog is so ill. I think you have to make this disision for yourself. You will know when the time is right and I'm sure you do not want to see you long time friend suffer.
This is something all of us pet owners will have to go through one day in our life, mine was 4 years ago. My berner x German Shepperd Travis had bone cancer at 9 1\2 we were given all the choices but the chances of the cancer had not spread were slim, and then if they amputated his front leg what quality of life would he have and for how long? They were to many maybes and he was in pain, so we decided to have him pts. It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do, and I work in a nursing home and deal with dying all the time. I stayed with him and stroked his ears and spoke softly to him until he was gone it was very peaceful really. I had to stay with him as he was always there for me when I needed him so it was the last thing I could have done for a loving pet. Some people can't. I have also lost two family members since then to cancer and was thankful they went quickly, some suffer so much at times you wish you could do the same for them.
I still miss Travis and visit his grave every time I go to the cottage. I now have Tucker, but there will always be a emptiness for my big boy he was a sweetheart. Once again I'm sorry for what you are going through but follow your heart, you know what is right for your friend.:angel2:

Soter
October 2nd, 2008, 08:44 AM
I have also lost two family members since then to cancer and was thankful they went quickly, some suffer so much at times you wish you could do the same for them.

Im very very sorry to hear about that.:rip:

joeysmama
October 2nd, 2008, 09:04 AM
Soter, true vegans do not use leather. Wool is one of the animal products that I believe most vegans are ok with. I think this is because shearing the sheep has some benefits for the sheep and isn't exclusively for the benefit of humans.

There are some books that touch on these issues, such as Diet for a New America, Fast Food Nation, The China Study and The Mad Cowboy.