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dog killed at Belleville dog park

Toonces
September 22nd, 2008, 04:36 PM
Dog killed by pit bull
Tiny pet's injuries so severe, owner forced to have him euthanized
Posted By W. BRICE MCVICAR, THE INTELLIGENCER
Posted 2 days ago


Tori Broadbent is not a supporter of "an eye for an eye" but she does want to see the pit bull cross that caused her dog's death destroyed.

Broadbent took her two-year- old pomeranian-****zu Harley to the dog park at East Zwicks Thursday night to socialize with other canines. While talking with friend, she heard growling and turned to see a large pit bull cross pick up Harley in its powerful jaws and begin violently shaking the small animal.

"I honestly thought Harley's neck was broken," she told The Intelligencer Friday.

Other dog owners in the park immediately intervened and began kicking and punching the larger canine to free Harley. Once the small dog was on the ground, Broadbent picked him up, ran into the parking lot and frantically called her veterinarian.

Lying on the asphalt, Harley's eyes were wide with shock and his tongue was hanging from his mouth. The small dog's white fur was matted with saliva from the attack and blood seeped from the wounds to his side.

Tina Sawicki, a friend of Broadbent's, drove the Belleville woman and Harley to Bay Regional Veterinary Hospital.

Sawicki said during the trip to the Bleeker Avenue clinic it became obvious the dog's wounds were more than superficial.

"You could hear the dog in the car as we were going to the vet, you could hear air coming out of its lungs," she said.

In fact, the pit bull cross had bitten Harley so badly, its teeth had not only punctured skin but had penetrated the small dog's lungs. Staff at the veterinarian clinic told Broadbent Harley's chances of making it through the night were slim prompting the 24-year-old to "do the right thing" and have her pet euthanized.

Sawicki, who witnessed the majority of the attack, said the pit bull cross was "vicious" as it shook the small dog.

She said the woman in charge of the pit bull cross seemed "pretty distraught" and told Sawicki she was shocked the dog had attacked Harley.

She said to me 'He's normally so well behaved. We have a muzzle for him and it's in the car'. Is the law not in place because these dogs are unpredictable," Sawicki asked.

In 2005 the Ontario government implemented a ban on the dogs. Pit bulls that were alive at the time of the bill's creation were grandfathered, but breeding of the dogs is no longer permitted. The legislation also requires pit bulls, when in public, must be on a leash and be muzzled.

Belleville police Insp. Mike Graham said the city's police force is investigating the attack and the pit bull cross has been quarantined for 10 days.

Police are investigating whether the dog should have been on a leash or muzzled as the dog was a pit bull cross and not a full-blooded pit bull, Graham said.

"I don't know the legislation, I'm going to have to look into it," he said. "We're looking into it."

The woman who was accompanying the pit bull cross at the park, Graham said, is not the dog's owner but was babysitting the canine. Charges under the Dog Owners Liability Act may be laid following the investigation.

Ironically, Broadbent is a former pit bull owner who said she used to defend the breed when people would criticize it. She opposed the province's ban on the dogs, she said.

Thursday's events, however, have left her shaken

"I see a big dog now and it's scary. I've lost one and they're like my kids. I don't know what I'd do if I lost her," she said clutching her remaining tiny dog, Suzuki.

Broadbent said the woman with the pit bull cross has offered to pay her veterinarian bill but it won't bring Harley back. She said though she generally doesn't believe in taking one life for another, this incident has her thinking differently.

"I'm not normally a believer in an eye for an eye but in this case.... I've had a dog that's attacked before and I didn't think twice about having that dog destroyed because once a dog attacks you just never know."

babymomma
September 22nd, 2008, 05:48 PM
I notice how they make it known SOOOOOO many times that the attacker is a pittbull cross, but its mentioned very few times that the dog that was attacked was a pomernian, yes its unfortunate that the dog has been attacked and killed, but it seems to me like the owners of both dogs were not paying attention to either of the dogs. And it seems like the owner of the pom brought her dog to a dog park to socialize it and before it was really truley socialized she let him run free? who knows what the pom did to prevoke the pitt?! Im sorry but it boils my bloode to see a story written like this, they are trying to make the whole pittbull breed sound like monsters.. Absolutely dispicable.

wdawson
September 22nd, 2008, 05:54 PM
regardless of the breeds involved....this is yet another reason not to go to dog parks . these parks are used by people to socialize among them selves and not supervise there dogs , in my opinion its for people that dont want to go for walks with the dog , you put a bunch of different breeds , sizes , fixed - unfixed , social and anti-social dogs together these things will happen.


you will never see my dogs at an off leash park.

babymomma
September 22nd, 2008, 05:58 PM
regardless of the breeds involved....this is yet another reason not to go to dog parks . these parks are used by people to socialize among them selves and not supervise there dogs , in my opinion its for people that dont want to go for walks with the dog , you put a bunch of different breeds , sizes , fixed - unfixed , social and anti-social dogs together these things will happen.


you will never see my dogs at an off leash park.



I agree 100% , I would never let keely go to one. These places are horrible, like you said its just for the owners to socialize with each other and nothing good can EVER come of it. But in this particular story, they are yet again targeting the pittbull breed. And it ticks me off to no end!

Stacer
September 22nd, 2008, 06:01 PM
We don't go to dog parks very often anymore, but when we do it's obvious most people aren't paying attention to their dogs.

S#!t happens regardless of breed, this time it happened to be a pitbull X, which of coarse causes the media to zone in on the incident.

We watch Skylar like a hawk at the park because she has a tendency to bully smaller dogs that are fearful of her. As soon as we notice her badgering a specific dog, we leave before she has a chance to escalate the situation (we've learned this the hard way, lol).

It's unfortunate that the owners weren't paying attention to the dogs because I'm sure the signs were there long before the attack happened.

RIP little dog. Now the future of the other dog is in serious jeopardy.

wdawson
September 22nd, 2008, 06:02 PM
I agree 100% , I would never let keely go to one. These places are horrible, like you said its just for the owners to socialize with each other and nothing good can EVER come of it. But in this particular story, they are yet again targeting the pittbull breed. And it ticks me off to no end!


yea i know.....i have a cross and i too hate the negative press.

wdawson
September 22nd, 2008, 06:07 PM
RIP little dog. Now the future of the other dog is in serious jeopardy.


unfortunatley that fate has been decided by the liberals under there DOLA legislation :sad:

mollywog
September 22nd, 2008, 08:37 PM
this is so unfortunate. Does anyone here know if there any legislation regarding pitbull crosses? And who is to say whether or not your dog is a PB cross? Some people see Molly and think "oh no, a pitbull" (I personally don't think she is) but you will never catch me walking around with her muzzled!

luckypenny
September 22nd, 2008, 08:53 PM
Only having this article to go by, this doesn't sound like an unpredictable, aggressive dog. It says to me that this is a dog with a high prey drive WHICH IS NORMAL FOR MANY DOGS REGARDLESS OF THE BREED :frustrated:.

This is something the owners/caretaker of this dog should have known and certainly could have prevented. Once again, as always, the blame does not lie with the dog, but it's neglectful, irresponsible owners including the owner of the poor dog that was attacked.

I wish people would spend more time learning about dogs and dog behavior and less time putting their dogs' lives at risk because of their stupidity and ignorance :mad:.

t.pettet
September 22nd, 2008, 09:06 PM
Both owner's need their heads examined. One for putting a tiny dog in such a precarious situation with a horrid outcome and the second owner for allowing a prey-driven large breed loose and unsupervised at a dog park. Dog parks should be divided into 2 size categories and never mixed. I am so sick of morons telling me their large dog's 'are friendly' when trying to approach my small ones. If mine aren't friendly towards a particular dog and happen to growl then whose are injured or killed if an attack happens? My dogs socialize with many dogs of varying sizes but I am always initially wary of any un-social behaviour on either's parts especially if I don't know the owners.

Dracko
September 22nd, 2008, 09:31 PM
I take Dracko to off an off leash park by my place that isn't heavily frequented. If there is no one around I have him off leash. The minute there are people/dogs around I put him back on. Why? Cuz you just never know. He doesn't like human strangers to touch him and if he is off leash I'm sure people would assume they can.

Not to mention all those dogs that are off leash and barely supervised ALWAYS seem to go ape ***** on Dracko. I can't tell you the number of times someone is acting like their dog does no wrong and then they instantly snap or go after Dracko. Dracko is a GSD so obviously he can hold his own but in order to keep him safe I want him in a position I can control things. I've let him smell the tiny dogs when the owners let them wander up to him w/o seeming like they are worried and cuz I have the 5 cats at home Dracko does know not to hurt other animals...but you never know! I would just die if he went after a tiny dog out of the blue.

Both of these owners are in the wrong. Probably the tiny dog's more so. If you are going to have such a small dog you owe it to the dog to protect it. 99.9% of the dogs at a park like that will be bigger than it is. I can't believe that the woman turned her back on her dog!!! I would never let Dracko out of my sight when I have him outdoors. NEVER.

wdawson
September 22nd, 2008, 09:42 PM
this is so unfortunate. Does anyone here know if there any legislation regarding pitbull crosses? And who is to say whether or not your dog is a PB cross? Some people see Molly and think "oh no, a pitbull" (I personally don't think she is) but you will never catch me walking around with her muzzled!


under the breed ban....if the dog resembles or has similar looks....BANNED....so its up to the 18yr old summer student to decide :rolleyes:

Toonces
September 23rd, 2008, 02:50 AM
I never take my dogs to that park or any other dog park, the dog park mentioned has a seperate areas for big and small dogs but the pom owner must have had her dog in the big dog area. The heading of the story is what got me like the rest of you. They say pit bull when it was a cross breed just to hype it up

Spatx
September 23rd, 2008, 07:08 AM
I don't take my dogs to an off-leash park - however I do take them to an isolated park that is usually empty. A few of us in the area will go there at certain times of the day, and the good thing with this is I know when I can go and avoid other dogs. The owners at my particular park are pretty good, I know most of the dogs and owners, so I'm fortunate I can tell if the group will be fine or not to go play with.

I still usually go during hours when it is empty to let my two dogs run since there is absolutely no way I can burn out the energy of an Aussie and puppy Border Collie otherwise.

Dog parks would work if everyone was dog smart and payed attention - but unfortunately thats just not going to happen anytime soon. :frustrated: It's the ignorance of the owners that lead to unfortunate situations such as what happened at the Belleville park.

BenMax
September 23rd, 2008, 07:21 AM
There should be a designated dog park for little dogs in my opinion. I have personally seen this happen before to small dogs that are attacked by larger dogs. Very sad on both fronts however I do not feel that either dog was protected properly. Being an owner of a small dog, I have not gone to a dog park due to the danger. Always having a large dog I never really made myself aware of the what ifs until I saw it myself.

Shannon666
October 6th, 2008, 01:31 PM
Agreed that she was clearly not being a responsible owner in taking her dog into the larger dog area and not paying attention, i know ive been to the park before and there is an obvious small dog area right by the gate, although it is small and normally empty when i see it. Ive only went there with my sister because she likes to bring her pitty/lab cross to play and fool around *sweetest most dog friendly dog i have ever known*. I also had my two chihuahuas with me but were in my arms most of the time, when i put them down they would just scratch to get back up because it always seems to be such a busy place with so many larger dogs running around. In a place like that its already enough of a risk having a normal sized dog running around supervised nevermind a small dog unsupervised.

BenMax
October 6th, 2008, 02:09 PM
I hate to say it however small dogs sometimes bring out the prey drive in bigger dogs regardless of the breed.

I had rotties and never of course worried. Now that I have a min pin, there is no way I can go to the DP without worrying that this little one may be thought of as a ...rat (sorry but that is about the best way to describe her size wise).

ontariodogs
October 24th, 2008, 01:55 PM
I breed Poms. Never in a million years would I take any of my dogs to a dog park. Not only because of the huge risk that even a bigger dog wanting to play, much less attack, poses but also due to the threat of them being exposed to every disease known to dogs. I suspect this is a situation where both parties are at blame. No responsible toy dog owner should ever put a dog in a situation like this. Nor should any dog that has the potential to inflict this kind of damage be given the opportunity. IMO dog parks should be outlawed - they're just disasters waiting to happen. The fact that this was a pit bull type shouldn't really have any bearing on the outcome - and I like pit bulls. Regardless of the breed there should be consequences for the act. I do know that given the current view on pit bulls I find it mind boggling that these incidents keep happening. Yes, it's unfair to bully owners to have to be more vigilant than the guy next door who owns a lab. Then again, if they'd been more vigilant to begin with then maybe the current legislation wouldn't be in place. And yes they do need to be more vigilant because while a pit bull might not be any more inclined to attack than any other breed the potential for serious damage once it does isn't comparable. Until all dog owners learn to act responsibly then these stupid, senseless incidents are going to keep on happening. You own a dog, then you make sure it's behaviour 24/7 is acceptable and you keep it out of trouble. Personally, I have 15 dogs - mostly Poms. None has ever bitten a person. Attacked another dog? Not a strange one but they've had battles amongst themselves which proves the potential for trouble is there no matter what the breed.

kandy
October 24th, 2008, 05:57 PM
Then again, if they'd been more vigilant to begin with then maybe the current legislation wouldn't be in place.

The dog owners who are responsible aren't the ones that aren't vigilant, but they pay the price for those that aren't. And having the ban in place is not going to make a bit of difference to those people who purposefully train their dogs to be vicious. In fact the ban has probably made bully breeds more attractive to those people who like to intimidate others. When there are no more bully breed puppies for these people to torture into killers, they will go back to buying rotti's or gsd's. If the law makers would realize that the problem is in the owner, not the breed - we'd have less of these kinds of incidents and no need for discriminatory bans. IMO the media is and has created such hype in these cases that it will take decades to undo the damage. Half the time the media reports it as a bully breed when it's not even close.

Such a sad thing - and so preventable. The article did say the woman with the big dog was not its owner, just a dog-sitter. I have to wonder what in the world she was thinking taking the dog to a dog park, and then not to have it muzzled! Even if the dog had not attacked a smaller dog, any one could've reported the dog as being un-muzzled in public which in itself was against the law. And the little dog - even if a small dog is very well mannered, a big dog can squish it easily accidently - and it doesn't say anything about how the little dog was behaving prior to the incident - lots of people think it's funny when their little dog is vicious, saying "Oh, he's so small he can't do any damage". A mean dog is a danger no matter the size. Once again, two dogs will pay with their lives for human stupidity. :frustrated::sad::frustrated:

TulipRoxy
October 24th, 2008, 09:02 PM
regardless of the breeds involved....this is yet another reason not to go to dog parks . these parks are used by people to socialize among them selves and not supervise there dogs , in my opinion its for people that dont want to go for walks with the dog , you put a bunch of different breeds , sizes , fixed - unfixed , social and anti-social dogs together these things will happen.


you will never see my dogs at an off leash park.

While I agree with you on most counts, this is not the rule. I take my dogs to a dog park usually every day, and we havent had a problem. When used correctly they can be a great place that dogs can run free and socialize with eachother. As well its a good place sometimes to meet other dog lovers. Of course I watch my dogs well, and if a dog comes in seems unfriendly I take them out. I never use it as a substitute for walks, though. We walk about 2 hours a day. I think like anything people abuse the priviledge and sometimes make it worse for everyone.

This is a sad story. My first question is why is a prey driven dog in a dog park in the first place? And also why is a tiny dog in the big dog park? And the worst part is the pit bull rap gets worse and worse

luvmyshepherd
April 15th, 2010, 02:17 PM
I have been in the dog parks many time with my 2 dogs (shepherds) and have kept my older guy (9 yrs) on his leash because of the little dogs.
The Pomeranian that was killed at the dog park, I am so sorry to hear that the owner had to put the dog down.
I'm also sorry to say that the OWNER'S take NO responsibility for their pets at the dog parks. It is not a place to take your dogs so you don't have to walk them, it's NOT a place so you, the owner can socialize with other people and IGNORE what your pet is doing.
It's the same as parents taking their kids to the park to play. You don't take your eyes off your child.....same rule applies at the dog park.
Twice now we have had a horrible time at the dog park with OWNERS not understanding that THEIR dog's behavior is the problem NOT the pits or the shepherds or the rotti's.
Pomeranian owner that thought it was funny that your little 20 lb dog kept attacking my 110 lb shepherd and REPEATEDLY allowed your dog to return and attack my dog (who by the way I had on a leash). I had to kick the Pom at one point to get it to let go of my dogs private region. It wasn't funny in the least !!
Especially when everyone else in the dog park ONLY heard my guy finally growl, grab and release the Pom but didn't see the previous incidents.
People were yelling at me to muzzle my dog.
Sorry, but even a DOG can only take so much abuse and I could only protect him/try to stop the Pom which didn't work !!!!
So please, I know this person lost their pet but no one knows what was going on PRIOR to the attack because NO ONE WAS PAYING ATTENTION TO THEIR DOGS.
The dog park gate closing behind you and your pet, does not mean you have a free babysitter !
**PLEASE NOTE: IF YOUR DOG IS UNSTABLE OR IN AN EXCESSIVELY EXCITABLE STATE ....A DOG PARK IS THE LAST PLACE THEY SHOULD BE UNTIL SOME ENERGY IS RELEASED. OTHER DOGS WILL INSTINCTIVELY CORRECT THIS BEHAVIOR SO IF A DOG SNAPS BARKS OR GROWLS AT YOUR DOG WHEN IT'S IN THIS STATE.....RECOGNIZE IT'S YOUR DOGS UNSTABLE BEHAVIOR CREATING THE PROBLEM !!

Kay9
April 15th, 2010, 02:40 PM
I personally think dog parks are the culprit. Any idiot can bring their dog there, and one cannot know how the pet has been trained (or not). I WOULD NEVER bring Buddy to a dog park.

That poor little pom. :cry:

Kay9
April 15th, 2010, 02:42 PM
I'm also sorry to say that the OWNER'S take NO responsibility for their pets at the dog parks. It is not a place to take your dogs so you don't have to walk them, it's NOT a place so you, the owner can socialize with other people and IGNORE what your pet is doing.
It's the same as parents taking their kids to the park to play. You don't take your eyes off your child.....same rule applies at the dog park.


Right On, luvmyshepherd.

Kay9
April 15th, 2010, 02:44 PM
While I agree with you on most counts, this is not the rule. I take my dogs to a dog park usually every day, and we havent had a problem. When used correctly they can be a great place that dogs can run free and socialize with eachother. As well its a good place sometimes to meet other dog lovers. Of course I watch my dogs well, and if a dog comes in seems unfriendly I take them out. I never use it as a substitute for walks, though. We walk about 2 hours a day. I think like anything people abuse the priviledge and sometimes make it worse for everyone.

This is a sad story. My first question is why is a prey driven dog in a dog park in the first place? And also why is a tiny dog in the big dog park? And the worst part is the pit bull rap gets worse and worse

I think you hit the nail (or many nails) on the head: you watch your dogs, and you wouldn't bring prey-driven dogs to a dog park. Unfortunately, there are idiots who would and do.:frustrated:

Frenchy
April 15th, 2010, 02:49 PM
So please, I know this person lost their pet but no one knows what was going on PRIOR to the attack because NO ONE WAS PAYING ATTENTION TO THEIR DOGS.


How the heck do you know this exactly ? Were YOU there ?? Even if so , it doesn't justify a killing. Dogs will growl , snap , to warn another dog to back off , not attack and kill it.

and by the way , this thread is almost 2 years old.

Kay9
April 15th, 2010, 02:50 PM
There should be a designated dog park for little dogs in my opinion. I have personally seen this happen before to small dogs that are attacked by larger dogs. Very sad on both fronts however I do not feel that either dog was protected properly. Being an owner of a small dog, I have not gone to a dog park due to the danger. Always having a large dog I never really made myself aware of the what ifs until I saw it myself.

I agree BenMax. I can't imagine bringing a little pom to a dog park, chatting carefree with another dog owner, and "oh gee, I hear growling; there's a big ole` pit bull eating my dog!". What the frig what she thinking?

I used to work with abused children before I retired. We had outings to the beach every summer. The parents NEVER watched their children; they figured the staff were there to do it (although they were told THEY were responsible and signed forms telling them they were). As a consequence, one child almost drowned in 2 feet of water (the parent was building a sand castle at the time).

JJO
April 15th, 2010, 04:20 PM
and by the way , this thread is almost 2 years old.

I was about to point that out too... :shrug:

Good catch Frenchy !

MyBirdIsEvil
April 15th, 2010, 05:10 PM
Wow, this thread is really old. I haven't seen the article before though. Why would you bring a tiny dog to a dog park anyway? There are a bunch of large dogs running around and ANY larger dog can have a prey reaction to a small dog or even injure them on accident. I honestly wouldn't bring ANY dog to a dog park unless I personally knew the people and dogs there. I have encountered so many idiots in public with their larger dogs that don't know how to control them or don't realize their dogs have any problems, I don't think it would be safe.
What a stupid article though. A pit cross, so what? There are tons of larger breeds that are dog aggressive, or trigger on smaller dogs as prey, and individuals of breeds that aren't even known for that that will.

luvmyshepherd
April 15th, 2010, 05:45 PM
How the heck do you know this exactly ? Were YOU there ?? Even if so , it doesn't justify a killing. Dogs will growl , snap , to warn another dog to back off , not attack and kill it.

and by the way , this thread is almost 2 years old.


If the thread being 2 yrs old bothers you, you don't have to comment. Obviously, according to you I needed to be TOLD.
I didn't JUSTIFY a killing. Putting some responsibility on the OWNERS. The COMMENT from the OWNER of the Pom stated :

QUOTE: Broadbent took her two-year- old pomeranian-****zu Harley to the dog park at East Zwicks Thursday night to socialize with other canines. While talking with friend, she heard growling and turned to see a large pit bull cross pick up Harley in its powerful jaws and begin violently shaking the small animal.
THAT is how I know and NO I WAS NOT THERE.
YES, a dog will WARN another dog to back off and if/when it doesn't then the OWNER needs to step in and take responsibility.
The end of my comment in previous post was :
**PLEASE NOTE: IF YOUR DOG IS UNSTABLE OR IN AN EXCESSIVELY EXCITABLE STATE ....A DOG PARK IS THE LAST PLACE THEY SHOULD BE UNTIL SOME ENERGY IS RELEASED. OTHER DOGS WILL INSTINCTIVELY CORRECT THIS BEHAVIOR SO IF A DOG SNAPS BARKS OR GROWLS AT YOUR DOG WHEN IT'S IN THIS STATE.....RECOGNIZE IT'S YOUR DOGS UNSTABLE BEHAVIOR CREATING THE PROBLEM !!

MyBirdIsEvil
April 15th, 2010, 05:50 PM
luvmyshepherd, it's considered bad manners to revive extremely old threads, that's why it was brought up. There is actually a sticky posted by the mods somewhere that mentions that new posters should take care not to do such a thing. So Frenchy is not in the wrong for mentioning it.
When people start reviving old threads it kicks the new, usually more relevent, threads down the page so they won't be seen as quickly. While that's not a problem if it's only a couple of people do it, if new posters constantly start reviving old threads it DOES become an issue. No one wants to wade through a bunch of old threads trying to find newer posts.

Also, getting an attitude with senior posters is NOT the way to make friends here. If you are new the board it is just polite to know the atmosphere of the board and become friendly with the older posters.

luvmyshepherd
April 15th, 2010, 06:04 PM
only having this article to go by, this doesn't sound like an unpredictable, aggressive dog. It says to me that this is a dog with a high prey drive which is normal for many dogs regardless of the breed :frustrated:.

This is something the owners/caretaker of this dog should have known and certainly could have prevented. Once again, as always, the blame does not lie with the dog, but it's neglectful, irresponsible owners including the owner of the poor dog that was attacked.

I wish people would spend more time learning about dogs and dog behavior and less time putting their dogs' lives at risk because of their stupidity and ignorance :mad:.


perfectly put !!!! I agree 100%

chilli1327
April 15th, 2010, 06:36 PM
I have been around dogs all my life, but cats are my first love. Probably always will be.

We are so quick to give up on pets once they become violent. It has been shown over and over and over, that abused animals can react in violent ways. I am not saying that is what happened here, but as goes the owners, so too, go the pets(dogs).

Too ofter people treat dogs like another family member and dogs are not people! They are not human. They have to be treated, well, like a dog! Dogs are pack animals and learning how dogs behave in the pack goes a long way to having a healthy(emomtional/mental) stable animal.

And even a violent dog can be rehabilitated. Almost 100% of the time. Unfortunately it takes time and effort and too many people do not want to give this time. Too many people chose dogs unsuited to their lifestyle and then blame the dog when there are problems.

For everyone who loves their dog, please do yourself and your dog, and by extension, your community, a favor! Educated yourself about the dog you have/want and take the time and effort to train yourself(not the dog!) how to handle and understand the pet you own.

My father used to train dogs very successfully and had won awards for his dogs(Lassies). But as I got older, I saw how his anger affected the pets around us regardless of the breed and I understood how this was such a factor in the dogs behavior, and not the breed.

There is an amazing show on the air right now(well 2 of them I watch), that show, without a doubt how animals can be rehabilitated! They are "The Dog Whisper" and "Dogtown". I am sure most of you dog lovers are familiar with these shows. I am so amazed how Cesar Milan is able to rehabilitate dogs over and over, and dogs that were given up on and ready to be euthanized. Unfortunately, too many laws are on the books that are so unforgiving.

Without a doubt, injury and damage has to be addressed, but the fingers first should be pointed at the dogs owners before the dogs themselves. I have seen over and over, neighbors who were of questionable character, having dogs and seeing these dogs become dangerous and violent.
That is not to say it doesn't happen with good owners, just generally there is a relation between those owners and there dogs. And this is well documented.

So, please people, learn about dogs in general, and having a good, well adjusted home goes a long way to having well adjusted dogs and many of the sad, unfortunate happenings will be avoided. Be a good pack leader, because that is the first step to having a well adjusted dog. If you are not the pack leader, guess who is?:thumbs up

chilli1327
April 15th, 2010, 07:40 PM
luvmyshepherd, it's considered bad manners to revive extremely old threads, that's why it was brought up. There is actually a sticky posted by the mods somewhere that mentions that new posters should take care not to do such a thing. So Frenchy is not in the wrong for mentioning it.
When people start reviving old threads it kicks the new, usually more relevent, threads down the page so they won't be seen as quickly. While that's not a problem if it's only a couple of people do it, if new posters constantly start reviving old threads it DOES become an issue. No one wants to wade through a bunch of old threads trying to find newer posts.

Also, getting an attitude with senior posters is NOT the way to make friends here. If you are new the board it is just polite to know the atmosphere of the board and become friendly with the older posters.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with reviving old threads, IF IT IS RELEVANT! This prevents new threads which will do exactly as you say. You can look at this from both sides. I and other users have done the same thing and I see nothing wrong with that.

So please leave moderating to the moderators, and we will all do the same!:thumbs up

JJO
April 16th, 2010, 08:54 AM
Chill out chilli & luvmyselferd !
Pushy much ? I'm a noob too.
You don't see me enlightening the oldtimers
in the forum about my vaunted opinion.(with bold red fonts)

Geez ! :loser:

Ford
April 16th, 2010, 09:10 AM
There is no rule against contributing to older threads as long as it is on topic. There is, however, rules against name calling and rudeness, both by old members and "noobs".

One of those rules is when a thread devolves into childish banter, it gets closed.

Your friendly neighbourhood mod,
Ford