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Jan Fennel, the dog listener

madge
September 9th, 2008, 10:30 PM
Hi all,

Has anyone tried the Jan Fennel method and if so, have you had much success with it? Any comments or experiences with this anyone would like to share? My boyfriend and I bought her book and have been trying to put it into practice. Some success, but it is not easy. It just makes so much sense, though, that we really want to make a go of it. Would appreciate any thoughts or comments.

Soter
September 10th, 2008, 06:52 AM
I have had no problems solved by her, seeing as i am getting a dog soon but i am a big fan, have loadza books and am a total beliver that her stuff works!!


Also american dog trainer ceasar milan is on the same and right page too!

Have you got any problems??


Soter:dog:

madge
September 10th, 2008, 12:35 PM
Hi Soter!

I think if you apply her method with a new pup you'll have great success. I saw a few Youtube videos of Ceasar Milan and he is definitely on the same page. I know he has a book out but I haven't read it yet. I'll probably buy it to see how he puts his approach into practice. I love the fact that both Fennel and Milan's methods are totally respectful of the animal and do not use any coercive tactics. It may take longer to get there with older animals, but it seems well worth the effort.

We have had some success applying the '5-minute' rule and 'gesture-eating'. We've seen our dogs visibly relax and play more. They've even gained a bit of weight which, according to Fennel, is a sign that they're less stressed. In the house they listen very well. They still come to us uninvited though, and so we are still working on ignoring them and calling them when we are ready, and not the other way around. Very tough, but we have to keep reminding ourselves that dogs do not see things the way we do and that we're actually helping them - and ourselves!

Each of our dogs displays different problems. They still bark and go nuts whenever anyone comes to the door and one of them jumps on people. They both bark in the yard whenever someone approaches. One of them rips through our recycling box whenever we leave - sometimes it's books or magazines (we've learned to put away anything of any value!). So I guess that would be alpha behavior - as she's anxious she can't protect us.
And finally, they both pull on the leash whenever we go on walks - although we're just starting to work on that, so we'll see if Fennel's method helps.

That about sums it up. We just have to be persistent I guess and more results will come! :pray:

kiara
September 10th, 2008, 07:02 PM
It probably takes several years of experience to be able to train dogs. I don't believe in buying books and then putting it into practice. It will only leave you frustrated! The only person who benefits here, is the writer ($$$) Probably best to invest your money for a good trainer. You can ask around for recommendations. Just my opinion.

Etown_Chick
September 10th, 2008, 10:21 PM
This is my second dog- both terrier crosses, both rescues.
I don't know Jan Fennel, but I do know of Caesar Milan.
With my last dog, I had a lot of problems. Yes he had issues when I got him but what was doing (on the advice of the dog trainer) didn't help.
With the new one, Scruffy, I've been following more of the Caesar approach. It works really well.
Trying to see things from the dog's viewpoint and acting like the alpha dog are much more effective than expecting the dog to see things through the human perspective.
Yes I'm sure if I was a professional trainer it would be easier but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

madge
September 10th, 2008, 10:52 PM
It probably takes several years of experience to be able to train dogs. I don't believe in buying books and then putting it into practice. It will only leave you frustrated! The only person who benefits here, is the writer ($$$) Probably best to invest your money for a good trainer. You can ask around for recommendations. Just my opinion.

Although experience is invaluable, I do think a book can help, especially in this case where the method is not one that seems widely applied yet by trainers and seems so natural. The problems come in though where you need to adapt the method to your particular issues and don't have the experience to know exactly what to do. So I do agree that books can be both helpful - and frustrating...

madge
September 10th, 2008, 10:57 PM
This is my second dog- both terrier crosses, both rescues.
I don't know Jan Fennel, but I do know of Caesar Milan.
With my last dog, I had a lot of problems. Yes he had issues when I got him but what was doing (on the advice of the dog trainer) didn't help.
With the new one, Scruffy, I've been following more of the Caesar approach. It works really well.
Trying to see things from the dog's viewpoint and acting like the alpha dog are much more effective than expecting the dog to see things through the human perspective.
Yes I'm sure if I was a professional trainer it would be easier but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

I wholeheartedly agree about looking at things from the dog's viewpoint. It just makes sense. Thing is, it's a fairly 'simple' approach on paper, but not so easy to put into practice. I find I really have to put myself in my dog's head to try and figure out what might be going on. Issues can be very very subtle; dogs are so smart that they detect the slightest change in our behavior and theirs changes accordingly.

Pit Bull Love
September 11th, 2008, 12:33 AM
Isn't this Amichien bonding basically like NILIF? I've been googling and that's the impression I'm getting from what little bit of info I've found. :shrug:

Soter
September 11th, 2008, 05:57 AM
Hang on, whats NILIF??????

I think definatley that both Jan an Ceasar's approach is brilliant, they are not agressive, they are simple and easy ways of great dog training and ownership

Soter:dog:

Pit Bull Love
September 11th, 2008, 06:40 AM
NILIF = Nothing In Life Is Free

http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm

http://www.goof.com/~pmurphy/NILIF.html

There are tons of websites on it but sort of different versions.

madge
September 11th, 2008, 09:30 AM
Thanks for the pointer about NILIF.

You're right, it seems very similar. The basic idea is the same as Amichien bonding, i.e. to relieve the dog of any idea it is responsible for its owner's safety and well-being. Stated the way it is on the the links you provided, it also seems simpler.

TwoLostSouls
September 11th, 2008, 04:33 PM
This is my second dog- both terrier crosses, both rescues.
I don't know Jan Fennel, but I do know of Caesar Milan.
With my last dog, I had a lot of problems. Yes he had issues when I got him but what was doing (on the advice of the dog trainer) didn't help.
With the new one, Scruffy, I've been following more of the Caesar approach. It works really well.
Trying to see things from the dog's viewpoint and acting like the alpha dog are much more effective than expecting the dog to see things through the human perspective.
Yes I'm sure if I was a professional trainer it would be easier but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing.
If you follow what Cesar teaches, you will be successful. It gets addictive, you actually want to go out and fix dogs. Remain calm and assertive and don't give up until you get the results you want. It works and it's cool!

Pit Bull Love
September 11th, 2008, 04:59 PM
It gets addictive, you actually want to go out and fix dogs.

This made me crack up! I could just see you stopping random dogs on the street and working with them while their owners are like WTH?! lol

Pit Bull Love
September 11th, 2008, 05:00 PM
Thanks for the pointer about NILIF.

You're right, it seems very similar. The basic idea is the same as Amichien bonding, i.e. to relieve the dog of any idea it is responsible for its owner's safety and well-being. Stated the way it is on the the links you provided, it also seems simpler.


Your welcome. It's good to read a bunch of sites on it as there are so many versions, you can get different ideas from different sites/versions.

Etown_Chick
September 11th, 2008, 11:15 PM
Lost Souls - ha ha, actually when I go to the dog park and have to wait ten minutes while some owner tries to convince his dog to let go of my dog's toy, it's the OWNER I want to fix, not the dog!

And madge, you are so correct about dog's sensing changes in the way we act.
I use the NILF theory as well, and am very happy with the results. Scruffy's come a long way in a few months and yes, he does drop the toy immediately when told to :)