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something that made me laugh in the "idiots guide to positive dog training"

kigndano
August 7th, 2008, 07:56 AM
so i was re-"reading" (aka - skimming pages) while in the bathroom this morning, and i saw something to the effect of this:

"if your dog rolls over to show his belly, or if your dog acts submissive he has gone into a learned helplessness mode"

:shrug: are you joking?

if my dog rolls over and i scratch his belly, how exactly is that "learned helplessness"?

talk about misinformation to the public.

i could make the arguement that my dog has learned to be submissive through positive reinforcement because when he acts submissive he gets a belly rub.

i think that some things cant be pigeon-holed like that, and i think that authors of books should be more careful about what they write; misinformation like that is pretty redic IMO.

:2cents:

Lissa
August 7th, 2008, 10:25 AM
so i was re-"reading" (aka - skimming pages) while in the bathroom this morning

:laughing:http://bestsmileys.com/toliot/3.gif

"if your dog rolls over to show his belly, or if your dog acts submissive he has gone into a learned helplessness mode"

It definately sounds off-base as an excerpt - what context was it written in? While it doesn't sound right on its own, I have a hard time believing that they didn't go into detail. I've never read the Complete Idiots Guide to Postive Dog Training but Pamela Dennison has written some amazing books (my fav being "Bringing Light to Shadow)...

if my dog rolls over and i scratch his belly, how exactly is that "learned helplessness"?

I doubt they meant a dog asking for affection = learned helplessness. I am almost positive that they are talking about dogs who are demonstrating all sorts of submissive behaviours and calming signals - not dogs who happily roll over in the hopes of getting scratches!

i think that some things cant be pigeon-holed like that, and i think that authors of books should be more careful about what they write; misinformation like that is pretty redic IMO.

If it was written exactly as you did without any explanation or exceptions, I agree.

kigndano
August 7th, 2008, 11:11 AM
they were just talking about examples of "learned helplessness beahaviors"

and they listed submissiveness and rolling over to show the belly.

when i go home for lunch ill read the section, like i said i was just skimming, but it really made me chuckle.


nice toilet icon too, whered you dig that up?

kigndano
August 7th, 2008, 12:54 PM
i just got back from lunch, and the section lead in was simply:

"example behaviors of learned helplessness"

then it was just a bulleted listing including - cowering, freezing in one position (WTF?) submissiveness, rolling over etc


what a pile.

Lissa
August 8th, 2008, 08:58 AM
i just got back from lunch, and the section lead in was simply:

"example behaviors of learned helplessness"

then it was just a bulleted listing including - cowering, freezing in one position (WTF?) submissiveness, rolling over etc


what a pile.

It sounds like it wasn't explained very well - although rolling over amongst a list of other fear based behaviours, implies that its done in a fearful way and/or in combination with calming signals. It's disappointing that they did not go into detail or list exceptions to the rule.

With regards to freezing, that is actually something I learned to do FROM my dog to initiate a chase sequence or zoomies.http://bestsmileys.com/dogs/3.gif

ETA - bestsmileys.com http://bestsmileys.com/silly/14.gif LOL

kigndano
August 8th, 2008, 09:38 AM
this morning instead of our walk i did some loose leash clicker training.

we would walk around a field, when doggy walked in front i backed up, if he turned and followed C/T time.

boy oh boy did he get the zoomies bad...like 5 or 6 times.

just lap after lap around me.

it was redonk.