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Don't you DARE run from me..

Kristinaa
August 1st, 2008, 01:23 PM
He's about 3-4 months old.
He's getting bigger every week.
He's smart..
And I love him.
But he's driving me up the wall.

His name is Bear, and he's an Aussie-collie and whatever else you can imagine mix.
Got him at the shelter about a month ago.
He's really a wonderful dog. He's smart and obedient.. usually. And he's very sweet.

Bear has a problem though, that I'm not sure I can handle if it goes on much longer.
I don't know why it is, but some days he gets EXTREMELY hyper.
Usually he sleeps, relaxes, or plays nicely.
But on his bad days he's REALLY BAD.
He goes on little rampages where he runs around like a maniac and chews on everything he passes for about 2 seconds and then keeps running.
He wont listen to any commands, and I can't catch him because when he runs , and I come after him, he thinks I'm playing a game with him and runs away.
He will not come when I call, or stop to take any sort of break.
I have to wait for him to pass me and then catch him.
I have no choice but to get harsh with him after this because if I simply say no, and let him go, he'll start up again.

I've been leashing him and making him stay beside me now because its the only way I can get him to calm down.
It's getting to be routine now, especially in the home because he chases the cats more often than ever now.
I don't know what else I can possibly do.
This pup is a LION already.
If this continues, I may not be able to keep him.
We live in a small house and he's going to be enormous.
There is NO possible way for me to afford a fence for him either.

I've been thinking of getting a shock collar, because chasing him, leashing him, calling him.. none of it works.

Can someone PLEASE throw me a bone here? :(
..haha. bad pun.

kigndano
August 1st, 2008, 01:54 PM
i would say no to the shock collar. he is just a puppy!!!!:yell::yell::yell:

please please dont get a shock collar for a 3 month old puppy, hes just a baby and is just exploring your house excitedly!

get him lots of chew toys, lots of kongs, lots of playtime, if you tire him out he wont have the pent up energy to do his hissy fits!!!:thumbs up

puppy 'zoomies' are normal, every pup does it.

my guy is 1 and a half and he still runs in circles when hes on his long lead sometimes! they like it!

try doing daily obedience training, in 15 minute sessions. work on sit first, then progress.

when you catch him chewing on something tell him NO!, and then replace it with a toy!:thumbs up

keeping him leashed all day is a great idea, but you HAVE to tire him out, if he is a collie/aussie he is SUPER HIGH energy to begin with and it is YOUR JOB to drain the excess energy!

NO SHOCK COLLAR! hes TOO YOUNG!:yell:

if you want some tips and training stuff people will be by to assist, you can PM most anyone here and they will be happy to help.:grouphug:

Dingo
August 1st, 2008, 01:54 PM
Are you sure about his age? Puppies often get a little nutty. Growth spurt, exuberance, energy rush, whatever. Also, as they get older even obedient puppies will test their limits.

Exercise him well (the appropriate amount for his size/age), keep him occupied, and get him into some training. Also limit his access to the house by keeping him in a pen when necessary.

kigndano
August 1st, 2008, 01:55 PM
also, you chasing him and getting angry and frustrated ONLY FEEDS THE BEHAVIOR!

stay calm, stay in one spot, and wait for him to run by you if you must.


i would also suggest re-introducing the house to him 1 room at a time!

make him earn free run of the house, that is a big privilege for a dog, make him work for it!

like i said, if you want help on how to do this PM me or someone else, we will help you.

hazelrunpack
August 1st, 2008, 01:58 PM
Welcome to the board, Kristinaa.

Here's a couple of hints as to what's going on.

At 3-4 months, a puppy has a huge energy reserve. It sounds like what he's having is what we refer to as the zoomies...butt slightly tucked? Stiff legged run? Figure eights? Grabbing at stuff with his mouth as he rushes by? Sound familiar? :D It's normal.

The best way to handle it is to let him run. Is there anyone you know or anywhere you can go with a fenced in area safe for him to run? Even a few times a week will do wonders.

A lot of his problem right now is his energy level and size. Have you enrolled in obedience classes? It would be a great idea. It gives him mental stimulation and a chance to socialize with other pups...and it will wear him out a bit, making him easier to control at home. Plus, the instructors will be able to give you tips on how to handle him and maybe even some suggestions as to safe places he can go to run :thumbs up

The not coming to you is just a matter of training and at 3 - 4 months, Bear still being a baby (despite his size), is not going to be reliable. If your yard isn't fenced then keeping him on leash is a very good idea.

I'll let the training gurus offer more detailed suggestions as to how to make his recall better. It's been too long since I've trained a puppy and we have a fenced yard, so my methods won't work for you. But I'm sure someone will be checking in shortly with advice.

But please don't get a shock collar. A shock collar won't help you with the zooming....and used improperly can do so much more damage than good. He's too young to use it on, anyway. And, lest you think I'm against shock collars entirely, I'm not. We have them, but they are never used in training. We only use them when out in wolf country as a way to catch our dogs' attention and remind them to come back to us if we run into a wolf pack. (And thank dawg we've never had to use them! :eek:) So I think the collars have a place, but imo, they aren't good training tools. I've seen dogs traumatized by improper use of shock collars. :sad:

Just one other thought....at about 3 - 4 months, Bear is likely getting ready to teethe. Just as in kids, this can make him cranky and misbehave...and, of course, he'll want to chew. So you need to be prepared with good chewing toys (black kongs of the proper size are great--and you can stuff them with goodies; there are also chew toys made specifically for teething pups but almost any durable chew toy will work). Other handy items are old dishcloths--soak them in water, wring them out and throw them in the freezer. Teething puppies love to chew on them when they're stiff and cold. It seems to soothe their gums. And the other thing I always had on were bicycle gloves--the kind that covers the palm and back of the hand but leaves the fingers free. When he's teething, he will have an irresistible urge to chew. These gloves will protect you from 'hamburger hands' while you're teaching him that biting is a no-no. Believe me, they can give you so much more patience in the lessons than you'd have doing it bare-handed.

Good luck, Kristinaa! Puppies are a lot of work and can be very trying. But in a year or so you'll have forgotten all the frustrations and just be enjoying having your well-behaved Bear around. :D Honest!! It's well worth the aggravation, and you'll miss the shenanigans when he's all grown up.

Meanwhile you've come to a great place for advice--lots of people here with good training advice. :thumbs up

Oh, and if you get time, we'd love to see pics of Bear!

aslan
August 1st, 2008, 01:58 PM
Yup kigndano and hazel pretty much covered it, when your little one is getting the zoomies, take him outside, if you don't have a fenced in yard, get him a20' training leash and let him rip. Leashing him to you is an excellent idea because it keeps him somewhat under control and it makes you have to pay attention to when he needs to go outside.

NEVER use a shock collar, would you electrocute one of your children because that is literally what you'd be doing.

Two of the people on here for training advice would be Benmax, or LuckyPenny. There are two or three other excellent trainers on here, oh Winston is one, be patient they will be on later in the day.

Always reward good behavior, while strongly enforcing NO for bad.

pitgrrl
August 1st, 2008, 02:00 PM
He's having a fit of the zoomies :laughing:

Is he doing it inside or outside?
How much exercise does he typically get in a day?
Have you tried re-directing him to a particularly high value toy or a desired behavior that you then reward with a high value treat, rather than scolding (because really, would you want to come to someone who was going to get mad at you?).

If you don't have a fence, I don't know if having a 5 month old off leash is too wise really.

I have to be honest, I totally understand the frustration of trying to get a dog to come to you while they prance around right out of your reach (honestly, I've been brought ot tears on a few occasions), and I fully get the importance of a solid recall, but I also *love* to watch a good zoomie freak out where I have to stand out of the way as not to get bowled over and the dogs are literally ricocheting off the furniture. I'm not sure there is any greater joy in life for a dog than to just go totally nuts for a few minutes (in appropriate locations of course).

So maybe your goal should be to work on over all obedience so that when you need him to listen he'll listen, but also to find appropriate times and outlets for his, um, exuberant side :laughing:


ETA: whoa! How'd y'all type so fast? now I think my post is probably totally obsolete, but whatever.....;)

hazelrunpack
August 1st, 2008, 02:05 PM
ETA: whoa! How'd y'all type so fast? now I think my post is probably totally obsolete, but whatever.....;)

Mine took about 20 minutes to type--kept adding stuff! :o No one had posted when I started...but it sure didn't end up first in line! :laughing:

kigndano
August 1st, 2008, 02:08 PM
we are such suckers for this stuff...

what :loser::loser::loser::loser: we are!

Kristinaa
August 1st, 2008, 02:24 PM
Oh wow.
This all really helps, and I'm trying so hard.

I've been trying to resist chasing him, I know it only encourages him, it's just second nature to chase what runs from you, especially when you're frustrated. haha.

Oddly enough though, he only does this inside.
I will take him out to let his energy loose and the second we get outside he sniffs around a little and then looks at me as if he WANTS to destroy the house with all his energy.
If I run, he'll run with me, yes. But I don't have as much energy as he does. One little run for me isn't even half as much as he wants.

I will try a long leash, because he also gets this way when we visit the beach and he absolutely LOVES prancing through the water and jumping into those dough nut tubes with me. haha. :] but I like to swim too and can't always just sit there and watch him run and make sure he doesn't get tangled and what not.

He's usually very calm and so I'm hoping maybe he'll grow out of the stage.

thank you all for your help. (:

aslan
August 1st, 2008, 02:34 PM
He will definately grow out of most of it. I might suggest reading up on the two breeds he is to see what personality traites you might expect. like an aussie is a herding dog so he may try to herd you or others, etc.

If he has a toy he likes to play with, take it outside with you, toss it so he chases it, mind you at his age you may have to go get it alot.:D but it should trigger the desired zoomies to tire him out.

TeriM
August 1st, 2008, 02:47 PM
Yup, it sounds like pretty typical puppy behaviour to me :). Do you crate train him? Puppies have lots of energy and need an outlet so the advice you have been given is great. I would just add that you do need to be able to distinguish those times though from when the puppy is just having fun and when he is "out of control". Sometimes at that age they get so worked up that you just need to quietly (without anger or frustration) give them a short timeout. When Riley was a pup he would get super worked up and obnoxious and then we would give him a 5-10 minute time out in his crate and then he was much calmer.

Good luck. Expect going forward that you will have days and/or weeks where your puppy is a joy to have around and then there will be days/weeks where he is an absolute terror. It is normal and eventually you will find yourself missing the days of psycho puppy :D.

pitgrrl
August 1st, 2008, 02:47 PM
He will definately grow out of most of it.

Could you come explain that to the brindle twins, 'cause they spent yesterday evening tossing all the couch pillows on the floor, rolling around in them and then jumping (yes, for real) on the bed between laps around the apartment. They're 7, but maybe they're special. :laughing:

TeriM
August 1st, 2008, 02:52 PM
haha, i bet you loved every minute of it pitgirl ;).

even Lucy (12 years) still gets the zoomies every now and then :cloud9:.

BusterBoo
August 1st, 2008, 02:55 PM
Congrats on your puppy!!! 3-4 months is still soooooo young and he has a lot to learn, as do you. :D I keep Buster on a 20' leash whenever he is outside and we do our running with him trailing the leash behind him. At first, I always had yummy treats with me and he soon learned that coming back to me, meant a treat. For recall, you have to make it a positive experience, while still trying to get Bear's attention. With Buster, I throw a stick, he runs for it and then I do the happy dance :crazy: while calling him back. It took a while, but he (or is it ME!) has it figured out.

Zoomies are WONDERFUL!!! I just stand back and let Buster run......he starts in the kitchen, heads down the hallway, into the bedroom, up and over the bed and starts all over.......This lasts about 3-4 minutes, then he flops for a much needed rest!

Everyone agrees, a tired puppy is a more quiet puppy. Bear will slow down eventually, but he needs you to tire him out!

Please don't give up on him....he is just a baby. As for the shock collar....please don't use it....he is too young and IMO, it will only make him fearful of you and collars/harness in general.

Got pictures??? :D

jessi76
August 1st, 2008, 03:14 PM
an Aussie-mix would be a great agility dog. I'd start with obedience first, learn the basics for 6mths or so, and when the dog is old enough (dogs can't start agility until done growing, or cleared by a vet) then start with some pre-agility. even just to learn the basic commands and moves. you can always build your own obstacles at home if you don't want to continue in classes or competition.

Training is "exercise" for the dog, even just mental work is tiring. So by combining obedience training w/ home training w/ a daily exercise routine, it should GREATLY help control those bursts of energy. Not to mention, it will help build a strong bond between you, a bond built on respect, positive reinforcement, and clear communication.

Chaser
August 1st, 2008, 04:23 PM
You've got a tonne of great advice, so I have very little to add. I just wanted to say that although I think zoomies are adorable, and a normal, important energy release for a puppy, sometimes they can be a real pain in the butt and happen at very inapproriate times. If you absolutely have to stop them, I found the best way to interrupt them is to stand directly in your dog's path, put your hand out so that it is in their way, and tell them "STOP!". Another alternative is to use a pop can with some pennies and tell them to stop as you shake it. Usually will stop them dead in their tracks, and then you can calm them down and redirect them to a more quiet activity. Generally though, I would say just let him go and enjoy it...zoomies can be very funny, but it is nice to have a way to interrupt them and get them to pay attention to you when you need it. I also like that my dog knows STOP! for safety reasons, in case he ever slips off his leash or sneaks out the door. As opposed to "Come" which I try to keep upbeat and happy, "STOP!" means "do not move another inch under any circumstances", and he knows it is so serious he will even snap out of zooming to obey it.

Also, tethering your pup to you in the house is a great training method in general, so I would keep that up for an hour or two a day if you can. It helps your dog learn to go where you go, and to look at you for direction. :thumbs up

chico2
August 1st, 2008, 04:24 PM
Kristina,loads of good advice,I just also wanted to add,make sure your cats have safe places to go,away from the pup,or you might end up with stressed out cats too.
Most of us know what stressed cats can do,peeing,pooping where they are not supposed to..etc,etc...it would just add to your problems
You said you had to get harsh with the pup,hopefully you are not hitting this little guy:fingerscr
Good Luck!!

Etown_Chick
August 4th, 2008, 11:44 AM
My mutt is almost a year old, goes to the dog park for a run every day and still gets the occasional zoomies.
He's not trying to be bad, make me crazy or wreck my house, he's just got to let out a BIG bunch of energy.
If it lasts more than a few zooms I just toss him outside and play some fetch with him. I've never seen the point of trying to make a dog keep his energy pent up. Better let him expend it in something non-destructive.

-C

BenMax
August 4th, 2008, 12:07 PM
Being a X Aussie you have a very exhuberant breed.

Your pup is having a hayday with you because the chasing has become a game. Your baby needs an outlet and is not getting enough exercise. The very best advice I can give is going to puppy training classes. A good trainer will be able to identify what characteristics and traits are part of who he is and from there they will give you ideas and exercises on how to manage the pup.

Routine again is the key. I don't know what type of exercise you are doing, however going for walks sets up standards in regards to discipline which is essential. Just putting a dog in the backyard will not give him structure which is absolutely required.

Do not give up, instead consult with a trainer near you so that you both may attend classes together.

Soter
August 4th, 2008, 12:47 PM
Okay. Just a few questions

Is he the first thing you go to when you come in, or in other words, does he run up to you and you pet him?

I assume he isn't completley reliable when it comes to calling him back to you. Yes or no?

When it is feeding time, does he eat before or after you? Is he calm and content while you prepare his food, and does he wait until you have set the food down and walked away before eating?

Has he ever ever bitten you, snapped at you, (not like a playfull nip, all puppies do that) or growled at you for no apparent reason, at all, like ever

When you go out for a walk, is he the first out the door? Is he in front of you or beside you? Does he dislike meeting other dogs on the walk?

Does he bark at people coming to the door, walking outside, strange noises ect.??

Please please reply yes or no or whatever to this if you get the chance to read it. (you can quote if you like, it's easier)

Soter:pawprint::dog::pawprint:

breeze
August 4th, 2008, 01:42 PM
Okay. Just a few questions

Is he the first thing you go to when you come in, or in other words, does he run up to you and you pet him?

if he is a puppy and in a create then the first thing I do is take him outside..

I assume he isn't completley reliable when it comes to calling him back to you. Yes or no?

long long leash walk away with the end of leash in hand and when you call him tug a little on the leash until he is where you want him to be, praise praise praise

When it is feeding time, does he eat before or after you? Is he calm and content while you prepare his food, and does he wait until you have set the food down and walked away before eating?

make him sit when you are preparing his food, if he gets up then stop what you are doing until he sits again.. when putting the food on the floor (in his bowl) make him sit and wait until you give the ok..

Has he ever ever bitten you, snapped at you, (not like a playfull nip, all puppies do that) or growled at you for no apparent reason, at all, like ever



When you go out for a walk, is he the first out the door? Is he in front of you or beside you? Does he dislike meeting other dogs on the walk?

I am the one that goes out the door first not the doggie, he is beside me most of the time..

Does he bark at people coming to the door, walking outside, strange noises ect.??

sometimes..

Please please reply yes or no or whatever to this if you get the chance to read it. (you can quote if you like, it's easier)

Soter:pawprint::dog::pawprint:


hope this helps.. just remember not all dogs are the same and not everyone does the same thing.. what works for one does not always work for an other..

Big Dog Mom
August 4th, 2008, 09:49 PM
My Great Pyrenees, Maggie, drove me NUTS until a wise person gave me this one piece of advice:

A TIRED DOG IS A GOOD DOG.

So I just exercised her - walked her, played with her, whatever it took to get her tired until she grew out of the puppy phase, and it took several months of this level of activity. Now she is 12 years old and the absolute light of my life. I would give anything I have in this world to have that insane little maniac back again. She now has degenerative myelopathy, and she is in the winter of her life.

Enjoy these good times while you have them. They are a test of your character. The absolute joy that will emerge from the other side of this phase of your dog's life is worth it.

chico2
August 5th, 2008, 06:46 AM
Very well said Big Dog Mom,looking at your beautiful pups in your Avatar,hope they are ok:fingerscr

Lise
August 5th, 2008, 07:03 AM
All the advice given here is great.Herding breeds in general tend to not respond well to harsh discipline,especially when they don't understand what you want.Lots of excercise,positive reinforcement and patience.My beardie was a nut until she was at least 3 or 4,she's now going on 14 and I would really like to have my crazy bouncing beardie doing laps again.Enjoy all of it it goes way too fast.