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Living with Princess Buttercup need help

Guinness' mom
July 29th, 2008, 10:46 AM
love4himie has given me some courage to put this out in the forum..so here it goes.......:fingerscr
I have a flame point himalayan we adopted her about 3 years ago they figured she was about 2-3 @ the time.
She has always gone outside the little box # 1 and # 2. She was found to have FUS put on AMITRIPTYLINE and placed on Hills prescription C/D by my vet. I eventually gave up on the meds as I was litterally clawed to death trying to get her to take these pills and she would run around the house with blue froth coming out of her mouth :frustrated:
I have tried the following multiple litter boxes...lid off....I clean it 2x a day and completely change it once a week.
She is now on Hills precription W/D as she also now has colitis. She is high stress high maintance but I do love her and she is a beautiful looking affectionate cat. But i'm at my wits end and I have to say that I'm leaning on giving her up :sad: I am going to get a second opinion from another vet and perhaps try the AMITRIPTYLINE again as they have these great pill pockets now. But if not I'm just not sure I can't stand having my house smell like cat pee and keep throwing out mats and other things I can't get the smell out of. HELP!!!!

MIA
July 29th, 2008, 11:00 AM
Nobody will like my questions but I am going to ask them..... Do you live in an area where she can go outside or can you build a safe area so that she can do her business outside so that your house doesn't get stinky???

Personally I wouldn't give her up, unless it's to a farm situation as nobody else is going to have their house smell the same, so if that's the case it may be kinder to let her go.

Love4himies
July 29th, 2008, 11:03 AM
I also mentioned the need for pictures :yell:, especially a flame point himmie. Puddles's brother is a flame point.:cloud9::lovestruck:

Isn't Amitriptyline an anti depressant?

I discussed this issue with somebody is very cat smart and she was the one that recommended different litters. One person she knows, has a cat who will only use a litter box if they use ripped newspaper, no kitty litter.

She also knows somebody who has a cat with IBD and put that cat on a raw diet and now rarely has any IBD issues.

Love4himies
July 29th, 2008, 11:04 AM
Nobody will like my questions but I am going to ask them..... Do you live in an area where she can go outside or can you build a safe area so that she can do her business outside so that your house doesn't get stinky???

Personally I wouldn't give her up, unless it's to a farm situation as nobody else is going to have their house smell the same, so if that's the case it may be kinder to let her go.


You can't give a himmie to anybody who is not going to have it inside and cared for. The fur will get much too matted and the cat will live in pain. Also, himmies tend to be very timid, they would not do well outside.

BenMax
July 29th, 2008, 11:48 AM
How many cats do you have other than this one? If you have multiple cats, then it is possible that this one will not or does not want to share the litter box.

Also, try putting the plastic on the bottom of the tray. I had a similar problem and this rectified it. It's sounds off the wall but worth the try.

sugarcatmom
July 29th, 2008, 12:04 PM
Gotta make this quick cause I'm supposed to be working :laughing: but I really think you need to change her diet. Hill's W/D is horrid, completely innapropriate to feed a carnivore. Is it dry or canned? She really needs to eat a good wet food, and like Love4himies mentioned, raw would be best. Here are some links for you to check out:

http://www.catinfo.org/
http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php

Guinness' mom
July 29th, 2008, 12:47 PM
to answer a few questions the Hills W/D is dry.......I do use plastic liners in the litter pan....I have one other cat a calico female, and one Dog lab penned in by baby gates as my cats do not like him..lol ...she is an indoor cat only and even if she managed to slip out on me she would just be by the door she is petrified of the big world outside.
I am going to download pictures soon of all my fur babies

14+kitties
July 29th, 2008, 12:58 PM
I do use plastic liners in the litter pan...

Do you only have the one litter box? That may be one of the problems. The rule of thumb is one box for each cat plus one extra. NOT put side by side. Feline Fresh is a good litter. Pricey but worth the cost if you have a fussy kitty. And it doesn't need changed as often as regular litter. And maybe eliminate the plastic? Some cats don't like the sound of plastic either. With a clumping litter or Feline Fresh you really don't need the plastic liner IMO. :shrug:

Duh me! I just reread your post and you said you have tried multiple boxes. If you are only using one could you change back to more?

Also - how big is the box? If she is going outside the box it could be that she is trying to use it but is too small and she misses.

14+kitties
July 29th, 2008, 01:05 PM
This may help a little....

http://ezinearticles.com/?Litter-Training-Cats-Step-by-Step&id=1323705

cpietra16
July 29th, 2008, 01:12 PM
If your cat seems to be a nervous type, did you try rescue remedy to calm her down ( or did she cause you to have high stress??? )anyway, this may not be helpful, but it works for my cats...I use the under the bed storage box for their litter. It is long and low. They can easily get in and they never miss the box because its so long, unless your cats like to use the corner ends like some cats do...then this won't work for you. . I also use natural wood shavings for their litter which they prefer. Good luck

Love4himies
July 29th, 2008, 01:17 PM
Below are the ingredients in the W/D dry food from their website and I think this food may be some of your problems.:

http://www.hillspet.com/hillspet/products/productDetails.hjsp?PRODUCT<>prd_id=845524441763405

Ingredients

Chicken By-Product Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Brewers Rice, Rice Flour, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Calcium Sulfate, Potassium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, preserved with BHT, BHA and Ethoxyquin, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, Dicalcium Phosphate, Beta-Carotene.


As compared to Wellness:

Chicken, Chicken Liver, Turkey, Chicken Broth, Carrots, Natural Chicken Flavor, Sweet Potatoes, Squash, Zucchini, Cranberries, Blueberries, Guar Gum, Dicalcium Phosphate, Carrageenan, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Taurine, Iron Proteinate (a source of Chelated Iron), Beta-Carotene, Zinc Proteinate (a source of Chelated Zinc), Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Proteinate (a source of Chelated Cobalt), Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate (a source of Chelated Copper), Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate (a source of Chelated Manganese), Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin.

Another food I love is organics by nature but only Sweet Pea will eat it:

http://www.bynaturepetfoods.com/productpages/organiccannedcat.php#tc

Jasper loves Instinct, Lamb or Venison:

http://www.naturesvariety.com/instinct_cat_can

I highly recommend Wellness, grain free, Chicken, Turkey, or Beef and Chicken as they are low in phosphorus and high in QUALITY protein.

All of the above canned foods Jasper can digest with out any diarrhea issues at all. Any foods with grains or corn he has horrible, stinky diarrhea and gas.

Puddles is doing very well on the Wellness. She is like a young cat again since changing her food from PC.

Any cat with FLUTD should be on canned only.

http://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/fusfaqs.html

Here is a link from Cornell Vet College:

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/urinary.html

cpietra16
July 29th, 2008, 01:21 PM
...I also want to say that Tigger had the runniest, smelliest poops until I realised that she had allergies to poultry..she is not on fish and is doing amazingly better...the poops are still soft, but the smell is better and definately less runny.

dashi
July 29th, 2008, 01:43 PM
Do you think it might be worth checking to see if maybe she has another illness causing her to do this? If it is just FUS, I would say hang in there! FUS is treatable and she will recover. She may be going outside of the box for #2, because she associates with the pain of her FUS when she goes #1. Once she has recovered, she should soon learn that there is nothing to be afraid of as there is no more pain. I would also suggest moving the boxes, once her FUS has cleared that way she might look at them in a new way.

One of my kitties had a UTI with crystals last year:sad: I brought him in for an emergency care visit (since there was room... my vet is almost impossible to get into these days) and due to that I did not get my vet who knows me and my fur babies. Anyway, she gave me the meds he needed and then pushed Hill food on me... Right after telling me that my current brand was no good and I had to look into better options. After saying I had to switch his food, she said the ONLY option I had for him was Hills. I looked at the ingredient list and it looked no better than what I had been feeding my cats. I went to a local specialty pet supply store and spoke with the owners - who are amazing and well educated and changed my world - who said that Hill is horrible... The only reason a vet will push it on you is because they are sponsered/contracted by the company. I have all my cats on human grade cat food and it has cranberry as an ingredient (which helps protect them from uti, etc...). Let me tell you... Can I ever see the difference in my cats since I got them on better food. I tried them on a mixture of raw, but they wouldn't take to it... It takes them a while to latch on, but if you have the money and patience, raw is another great suggestion. There are some great companies that sell raw foods for cats and dogs.

Don't give up on your furry just yet! I would definitely get that medication checked out to see if it is right for her FUS.

I know how you feel about the smell of pee/feces in your home. I think it is the cat urine that is the worst... It is a hassle to clean up. I have an issue with one of mine right now - he goes #1 and #2 in my house everyday, multiple times a day... But he is 17yrs old and due to his old age is deteriorating:sad: I have him going into the vet tonight and hopefully can figure out what is wrong with him. I still see a lot of life in him (in my opinion... but love is blind) and am not ready to let go...

Love4himies
July 29th, 2008, 01:51 PM
I have found with the cats that I have fostered and had on raw, there is no smell to their feces or urine as they get so much water that their urine is not concentrated.

Wish my cats would eat raw. Well Sweet Pea did when she was nursing and really hungry.:frustrated:

sugarcatmom
July 29th, 2008, 02:16 PM
Okay, now for my longer answer, which may repeat some stuff that's already been said.

Both of your cat's issues (the bladder/urinary tract problem and the digestive upset) are related to food. After you've read my links to you above, you'll probably realize that kibble has no place in the feline diet, no matter if it's from the vet or the grocery store or a high end pet store. The number one cause of FLUTD in cats is not enough moisture in their diet and the number one cause of digestive problems are innapropriate ingredients like grains.

Your kitty has probably developed an aversion to the litter box because of the discomfort she feels while in there. I think a two-pronged approach should help:

- change her food to a good canned food (if you can't do raw yet) without grains, perhaps even trying a novel protein source. Innova EVO 95% meat, Nature's Variety Instinct, Wellness, By Nature Organics, are all good.

- get new litter boxes, put them in new places, and try Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract (http://www.preciouscat.com/) litter. Make the litter situation as appealing as possible with an effort to diminishing the negative association she has. A Feliway diffuser could also be useful.

Good luck, let us know how she does.

Guinness' mom
July 30th, 2008, 06:52 AM
Her she is...not the best pictures...lol....

Guinness' mom
July 30th, 2008, 06:55 AM
and my other....Cali

Love4himies
July 30th, 2008, 07:06 AM
OMG SHE'S BEAUTIFULOh Princess Buttercup you need to allow momma to change your food so you will feel so much better;).

Guinness' mom
July 30th, 2008, 07:08 AM
And the one that Princess and Cali do not like...lol

Love4himies
July 30th, 2008, 07:13 AM
He just thinks he needs to keep the kitties on their toes, keeps them young, you know :laughing::laughing:

Guinness' mom
July 30th, 2008, 07:22 AM
Ty...oh himies...I don't want too :cry:
I have put up with it for almost 3 years...Just somedays are worse then others and I get so frustrated.....I want to try another vet first....and I will change the food I will check out all the links...I'm not sure about the raw food...but it seems wet from most of you is the next best thing...god I hope they go for it they have alway eaten dry :eek:
I did try that special litter that was mentioned 16.99 a bag I may add and she still pooped elsewhere. :frustrated:
Now one question is I am now out of cat food...do I pick up a small bag of hills and mix the new food or what? I am afraid as we away on holidays starting friday and Nana is looking after the 2 cats so I am so afraid to experiment. And can you change its habits after all these years?

Oh I wanted to show you her shaved...lol

Love4himies
July 30th, 2008, 07:36 AM
Yes you can. Puddles was on the same crap food for 11 years and she HATES change. Her health was failing quickly so I had to be strong for her sake. Kibble is an addiction, but can be overcome.

Like I said, there were many tears trying to get her to change, but it happened. Now Puddles will eat human meat, semi cooked mind you, but she did not recongnize meat as food before.

Is Nana coming into the house to take care of the kitties? If so, I think it would be OK to start the food change. If not, no, it may be too stressful on PB to be out of the house and a food change. Himmies are so sensitive to change.

Did you get my PM?

14+kitties
July 30th, 2008, 07:42 AM
Buttercup and Cali are gorgeous!! I hope you can get her changed to raw or wet food. :fingerscr
Guinness of course is quite the character too!

Guinness' mom
July 30th, 2008, 07:42 AM
Nana comes over to the house 2 x a day....but Nana does not like change either...lol...so I was thinking about getting the bet dry I can get just a small bag and some wet...Nana would not like to start messing with raw food or trying to cook it a bit..and this is a bad week for me at work...OMG I just realized the time....um addicted now :evil: better then face crack...lol...I will check in from work...:o......I got your PM and responded

Love4himies
July 30th, 2008, 07:50 AM
Not a time to start on raw, maybe a good time for the dry sprinkled on top of a bit of canned though. It will get PB used to the smell of canned food.

BTW, she is beautiful shaved too!:cloud9:

sugarcatmom
July 30th, 2008, 07:52 AM
Ya, maybe it would be a good idea to wait until you're back before trying full diet changeover, only because if there are further digestive issues or someone goes on a hunger strike, you want to be there to catch it. You could always pick up a few cans of something and just introduce very small amounts, a tsp or so, like you're giving them the most scrumptious treat in the world. Some cats take to it right away, some, like mine, can take months to completely switch. Patience is your friend.

sugarcatmom
July 30th, 2008, 07:53 AM
Forgot to add, your kitties are gorgeous. :lovestruck:

The drooler is okay too, I guess.:laughing:

dashi
July 30th, 2008, 08:23 AM
You furries are so beautiful! I love the pick of Buttercup shaved!:laughing:

I agree with sugarcatmom, I would wait until you come back to switch the food. What's a few more days, right? Then, like she said, you will be able to monitor her and know if she is going to pull a hunger strike.

When I switched my cats food they smelled at it and gobbled it down. They LOVED it! I have mine on Wellness wet and there is about 7 different flavours and they love them all.

I really hope all these changes will help your kitty out! :)

chico2
July 30th, 2008, 08:27 AM
Guinness,my 3 cats are almost completely off dry food,I say almost because they get dry food as treats.
I also feed them Wellness no grain,but my Rocky has had semi-runny,smelly poop for almost 2 yrs now,probably from his meds..nothing seems to help.
I would stop using plastic in the boxes,I know my cats would hate that.
I also use the larger Rubbermaid boxes,since my cats are somewhat hefty.
Both your kitties are beautiful,but Buttercup is stunning,looks just like a Buttercup:lovestruck:

Love4himies
July 30th, 2008, 08:37 AM
I think holding off depends on the owner and how strong the person is and the personality of the cat.

If an owner is going to give in to a picky cat, not allowing the cat to be hungry enough to attempt the change, then the change may not be successful. It is very heartbreaking to know your kitty is hungry and won't eat so you want to make it "all better" and give in.

Also, Jasper eats much better in a quiet envirnoment than when there is any activity going on and is more willing to try different foods.

Is there anyway that PB can be locked up in a room with her food and litterbox for a day or so to monitor whether PB is eating her kibble sprinkled on top of the canned?

Guinness' mom
July 30th, 2008, 10:15 AM
Sorry to be a pest but...when you talk about mixing the dry with some wet when I'm away...do you mean I should buy a small bag of the hills w/d that they are currently on and add the wet wellness? so it's not a shock to their systems or should I buy both wellness dry and wet?...I have not had the time to go through all the links yet :o....but are these foods good for a cat with colitis problem as well as fus?
I seriously doubt Princess will go on a hunger stick as she drives me banana's when she is hungry and even wakes me up the little bugger if I'm not up at my normal work week time :frustrated: And makes enough noise to wake the dead...funny the kids can tune it out though :rolleyes:

Love4himies
August 1st, 2008, 09:31 AM
The best food for a kitty with your issues is probably raw, it is free of chemicals and non kitty foods and full of moisture. I heat up a little bit of water in the microwave and mix it with the raw so it is a little warm and the kittens get lots of moisture.

A good transition is to give both old food and new food and slowly decrease the old food.

Guinness' mom
August 11th, 2008, 04:40 PM
UPDATE....
I picked up the Wellness dry and wet food I went with the weight control one as it dealt with everything from stomach and urinary tract health. Nana just fed the dry...I started the wet this morning...NO HUNGER STRIKE with my cats...they attacked me and were in their dishes before I was finished putting it in :frustrated:
But while I was away...Nana said she pooped and pee'd everywhere :mad:...she was cleaning up after her everyday even though she cleaned out the litter 2 x per day....:shrug:
I am going to bring her to a new vet that was recommended to me but I really believe its behavioral...if I am doing something near the litter box she just hops right in and goes...she hates to be alone...if I was home all day I really don't think she would go elsewhere....