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Puppy traning

pup#1
July 28th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Hello Everyone,
I'm getting a new puppy (puggle) this weekend and I'm a little confused. I was trying to read up on the best way to house train her given my husband and I both work. Some articles that I read say creat traning is the best way, which I agree. However they say keeping them in the crate for long periods of time is no good. They suggest putter her in a room that she can't do much harm in and leaving her there for the day. Putting her bed, toys, a little of water, and newspapers down. Then at night when it's sleep time to put her in her crate. But if I do this wont it confuse her. Any and all advice would be great!!

sugarcatmom
July 28th, 2008, 01:35 PM
I like to refer to this website for just such issues: http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/puppy%E2%80%99s-first-week-home-8-9-weeks

t.pettet
July 28th, 2008, 07:41 PM
While you are both working is not the best time to adopt a puppy. They need companionship, training and socalization for the first year, not just 3-4 hrs. in the evening.

mona_b
July 28th, 2008, 08:32 PM
Just a few questions.:)

How old is this pup?

Are either you or your husband going to come home say at lunch and let the puppers out to eat,play and go outside?

If not,will you have someone come over to do this?

Young puppies need to be fed 3-4 times a day.The can't be fed in the morning,then have to wait till 5-6 when someone gets home to get fed again.It can play havock on their tummies.They could end up wolfing the food down cause they are so hungry,then end up puking it back up.

I never crated.Never heard of it 12 years ago.And I'm sure neither did my parents when we had dogs as kids.

I had the kitchen blocked off,put down paper(in one corner),a few toys and water.My dogs were house trained and had free run of the house at 5 1/2 months.They never had the urge to pee on any other paper that was left around:D

kigndano
July 29th, 2008, 06:48 AM
if you want to get a puppy, get one.

dont listen to someone saying that youcant because you work, thats rediculous.

crate training IS the way to go for that, BUT leaving a 3 month old puppy for 8 hours a day inside a crate isnt a good idea.

im broke myself, so i wont assume you have money for anything. if you do have some cash though, i would suggest things like; dog walkers to come over and take the pup out for a romp in the backyard once a day, doggy day care would be great but it is VERY pricey around me at least. getting home at lunch is also a good solution as long as you can be there for 30-45 minutes with the pup.


also, waking up really early and walking/playing with the pup before work will help too. i get up at 530 to this day to walk my dog, it sucks at first but its part of the deal.

the general ruleof thumb for crating a pup is that they can hold it for their age in months + 1 (in hrs). and also to make the crate JUST big enough for the dog to stand up stretch, and turn around in.

any bigger then that and they will have accidents, i learned the hard way when i came home to my dog in his adult sized crate sitting next to a big pile...then i cleaned it out, put him back in while i washed up and came out to another one.

ashtoreth
July 29th, 2008, 10:07 AM
if you want to get a puppy, get one.

dont listen to someone saying that youcant because you work, thats rediculous.

also, waking up really early and walking/playing with the pup before work will help too. i get up at 530 to this day to walk my dog, it sucks at first but its part of the deal.

.

Amen to that (the get a puppy thing) I work 8-4, my boyfriend works 8-4, I can come home during the lunch to take care of the pup. I've had dogs a lot, worked the same hours, never had a problem with it. As long as your willing to take time with the dog, morning and evening (lunch if you can too). No use getting a dog with separation anxiety either...

I was curious though, seeing the picture on your icon, you have a husky? how long did you walk him when he was 8 weeks before you left for work? We're thinking walking him around 30 minutes at first, then run/walk/play for 45 minutes up to an hour and a half before going to work. But I'm open to hear more, it's my first husky.

Thx

Purpledomino
July 30th, 2008, 10:51 AM
While you are both working is not the best time to adopt a puppy. They need companionship, training and socalization for the first year, not just 3-4 hrs. in the evening.


I agree. IMO getting a puppy and leaving him/her alone the majority of the day especially at this young age is not in its best interest. Expecting a young puppy to "hold" it in a crate for more than a couple hours is cruel IMO as well, and if you plan on blocking off a room, or using an X-pen, don't expect good results if you want your dog to go to the bathroom outside.

There are no two ways about it. Puppies are work. If you want a well adjusted, well trained and behaved dog....you need to be there to do the dirty work. Just because you "want" a dog, doesn't mean you should have one. I think you should at the very least plan for a new arrival when you are on holidays or can spend time at home with the puppy. I know I'm going to get flamed here for my opinion...but it is what it is. :shrug:

jessi76
July 30th, 2008, 11:29 AM
While you are both working is not the best time to adopt a puppy. They need companionship, training and socalization for the first year, not just 3-4 hrs. in the evening.

I disagree with this. no where in the original post does it say that only 3-4hr in the evening will be spent w/ the dog.

Additionally, MANY people get a dog while both people are working. I did. We did make sacrifices though. We adjusted our work schedules to accommodate a new pup. I crated the pup at 8am when i left for work. My fiance came home at 10am for a morning break (let pup out, potty & play time). he re-crated and came back at noon for lunch (more potty & play time). I came home early at 3:30. we did this routine for a number of weeks until we were able to housebreak and gradually build up time in the crate. We did training in the evenings - starting with puppy playschool, and adding levels 1, 2, and 3 classes in. We did beginner agility on the weekends.

It can absolutely be done while you are working full time.

ashtoreth
July 30th, 2008, 11:53 AM
Yea, its wonderful to be able to come back home in breaks, I have the chance to live 10 mins from where I work and my boss is -reaaaally- understanding.
Having a dog at home and being there fulltime would basically mean you're either a breeder or don't work, hell I wish I could be paid not working...

kigndano
July 30th, 2008, 12:11 PM
yea

some of the people on here are ridiculous.

just ignore them, its the advice i was given. i dont do a good job though, as many will attest.

:o:o

its not cruel to leave a dog home alone, thats foolish

jessi76
July 30th, 2008, 12:20 PM
it IS alot easier if one person works close to home, however, if we both worked far away and/or could not rearrange our work schedules, I would (and have) use a doggy daycare. In my area it's expensive, $25/day for a GOOD place, and I have used it on occassion. my fiance sometimes went out to job sites, so he couldn't be home for those daily breaks. In such cases we used the daycare. It was a huge added expense BUT at least I had peace of mind that the pup was safe and training was continuing during the day. I did not want to have to have a day where the pup was left alone too long and accidents happened. I think IF it's preventable, then do all you can to prevent it. rearrange schedules, use a daycare, hire a dog walker, etc...

even now, my dog is 3, perfectly trained, no longer needs a crate, and CAN hold it for the work day. however, I still don't think it's right for him to be alone all day with no exercise. We pay a retired neighbor to come over in the middle of the day to play and let him out for a potty break.

Kigndano, *some* of the people on here don't appreciate being called ridiculous. We all have our opinions and methods. You can simply say you don't agree, no need to call others ridiculous.

Chris21711
July 30th, 2008, 12:34 PM
While you are both working is not the best time to adopt a puppy. They need companionship, training and socalization for the first year, not just 3-4 hrs. in the evening.

I agree with that unless you can afford doggie daycare or someone who can come in and let him/her out of the crate to exercise.


yea

some of the people on here are ridiculous.

You really do make some hostile remarks at times. People are entitled to their opinion, which I think is the reason the OP came to the forum in the first place, to hear opinions.
just ignore them, its the advice i was given. i dont do a good job though, as many will attest.

:o:o

its not cruel to leave a dog home alone, thats foolish

In my opinion, not that you would be interested at all. One of the reasons that you are having problems with your own dog, is because he feeds off of your hostile nature.

kigndano
July 30th, 2008, 01:06 PM
now now

i didnt start any personal attacks here at all. and i will keep this brief.

what i meant by some people being rediculous, was telling someone to not get a dog because THEY dont think that person has enough time for one.


THAT is rediculous, not training methods or anything else.

telling someone else to not get a dog is WAY over the line of giving advice IMO.

and calling me hostile is also quite funny. thanks for the laugh.:D

everyone is hostile when they feel attacked and degraded personally.

think what you will of me.

to the OP:

good luck with your puppy.

kigndano
July 30th, 2008, 01:10 PM
i completely agree with this paragraph also.

if you can afford it, theres no reason to have the dog home alone all day.

but if you cant, i think its far from cruel to have a dog home during the day.

i mean if you get a fenced in yard and a doggy door you're golden.

and if not, laying at home sleeping all day and chewing on toys doesnt sound like torture really.


it IS alot easier if one person works close to home, however, if we both worked far away and/or could not rearrange our work schedules, I would (and have) use a doggy daycare. In my area it's expensive, $25/day for a GOOD place, and I have used it on occassion. my fiance sometimes went out to job sites, so he couldn't be home for those daily breaks. In such cases we used the daycare. It was a huge added expense BUT at least I had peace of mind that the pup was safe and training was continuing during the day. I did not want to have to have a day where the pup was left alone too long and accidents happened. I think IF it's preventable, then do all you can to prevent it. rearrange schedules, use a daycare, hire a dog walker, etc...

even now, my dog is 3, perfectly trained, no longer needs a crate, and CAN hold it for the work day. however, I still don't think it's right for him to be alone all day with no exercise. We pay a retired neighbor to come over in the middle of the day to play and let him out for a potty break.

pitgrrl
July 30th, 2008, 01:34 PM
i completely agree with this paragraph also.

if you can afford it, theres no reason to have the dog home alone all day.

but if you cant, i think its far from cruel to have a dog home during the day.

Though I obviously don't feel that it's cruel to have a job while having a dog, I do think that we, collectively as a society, have come to see things that are really not at all in a dog's best interest as the norm. As others have touched on, dogs are social creatures, they have drives, exercise needs, the need for mental stimulation, etc. many of which get neglected in the situations we expect them to adapt to.

Though I have no idea about the energy level of a typical "puggle" I don't think it's extremist to suggest taking a good hard look at one's situation and questioning what type and age of dog, or even a dog at all, would do best given one's lifestyle.

Clearly we really have no idea how things will play out for the OP, nor is it inherently evil to have a job and a dog at the same time, but there are situations involving long hours of crating, little physical and mental exercise, etc. that seem to fit many people's idea of adequate dog ownership which do verge of abuse. I point this out only because you seem to be treating the idea extremely lightly when it all too common.



i mean if you get a fenced in yard and a doggy door you're golden.


Depending on where one lives this can be extremely dangerous. Between possible theft, harassment by neighbourhood children, other animals getting into the yard, ingestion of inedible items and/or toxic substances, excessive barking, etc. the dog could get into a huge amount of trouble.

If this is being considered though, a well built, secure kennel would be a better option.

kigndano
July 30th, 2008, 01:42 PM
valid points pitgrrl, esp the second one about the neighborhood problems.

didnt even cross my mind so good call on the kennel.

of course the idea of 2 dogs springs to mind, but i cant do that so its kind of redic to suggest it like its an easy undertaking.

i think that if you walk your dog every day, mix in a little playtime daily and find some doggy friends for occasional visits thats enough for most dogs, do you agree?

if you take the extra step to do agility or weight carting or anything like that then im sure the dog will be fulfilled.

i also agree that the type of situation people are thinking of where the dog is neglected almost, is very common.

Purpledomino
July 30th, 2008, 01:59 PM
I disagree with this. no where in the original post does it say that only 3-4hr in the evening will be spent w/ the dog.

Additionally, MANY people get a dog while both people are working. I did. We did make sacrifices though. We adjusted our work schedules to accommodate a new pup. I crated the pup at 8am when i left for work. My fiance came home at 10am for a morning break (let pup out, potty & play time). he re-crated and came back at noon for lunch (more potty & play time). I came home early at 3:30. we did this routine for a number of weeks until we were able to housebreak and gradually build up time in the crate. We did training in the evenings - starting with puppy playschool, and adding levels 1, 2, and 3 classes in. We did beginner agility on the weekends.

It can absolutely be done while you are working full time.

You are absolutely correct...it can be done. I believe that your situation was exceptional, but also unfortunately it would be rare that such measures could be taken under normal circumstances for MOST people. Working a normal eight to twelve hour shift....then travel time to and from....even with a home visit (normally one hour?) at lunch time to visit said puppy is alot of alone time for a YOUNG pup, especially with expectations of housebreaking.

I still believe even if these "exceptional" ideals are in place, it would be better to plan ahead to get a puppy when you do not have to leave it for lengths of time such as vacation time etc.

As for Kigndano...your comments about posters being "ridiculous" I am assuming are designated in my direction. If you feel it is okay to own a dog regardless of whether you have enough time for it, that is your opinion. I don't agree however, I have read enough Kijiji ads to know the reality of what happens to dogs when their owners do not have time for them. If I don't think you should have a dog because you don't have enough time for one....so be it, call me ridiculous. :rolleyes:

kigndano
July 30th, 2008, 02:23 PM
i did not say whether or not you have time for it or not.

i said, and i repeat this yet again...

it is rediculous to tell someone to NOT get a puppy because YOU FEEL that THEY DONT have enough time for it.

you cant at all judge the situation bluntly like that, so IMO it IS rediculous to tell someone about THEIR time schedule and how much time they will have for their dog JUST because they have jobs.

working people shouldnt be made to feel bad about owning a dog, its not right.

if you can stay at home and be there all day with your animals then good for you. but situations like yours IMO shouldnt be the only ones viewed as 'fit for pet ownership'.

i think a lot of working people can offer a lot of early morning, afternoon and weekend activities to their dogs. and you shouldnt just say things like you said before.


so as ive said numerous times, dont take my comments out of context and mangle the intent behind them.

to end your post you again said "If I don't think you should have a dog because you don't have enough time for one....so be it, call me ridiculous"

i just dont know where you can get off saying that someone "does not have enough time for something". who are you to judge that?


You are absolutely correct...it can be done. I believe that your situation was exceptional, but also unfortunately it would be rare that such measures could be taken under normal circumstances for MOST people. Working a normal eight to twelve hour shift....then travel time to and from....even with a home visit (normally one hour?) at lunch time to visit said puppy is alot of alone time for a YOUNG pup, especially with expectations of housebreaking.

I still believe even if these "exceptional" ideals are in place, it would be better to plan ahead to get a puppy when you do not have to leave it for lengths of time such as vacation time etc.

As for Kigndano...your comments about posters being "ridiculous" I am assuming are designated in my direction. If you feel it is okay to own a dog regardless of whether you have enough time for it, that is your opinion. I don't agree however, I have read enough Kijiji ads to know the reality of what happens to dogs when their owners do not have time for them. If I don't think you should have a dog because you don't have enough time for one....so be it, call me ridiculous. :rolleyes:

jessi76
July 30th, 2008, 02:49 PM
:offtopic: :sorry:

some of the people on here are ridiculous.

:confused: no one took your comments out of context or mangled the intent. YOU need to clearly state what you mean in the first place.

kigndano
July 30th, 2008, 02:57 PM
:offtopic:i disagree..


"If you feel it is okay to own a dog regardless of whether you have enough time for it, that is your opinion."

i never said it was OK to own a dog if you didnt have enough time for it.

what i said i have already clarified. and i dont think it was unclear to begin with, but it must have been:offtopic:

pitgrrl
July 30th, 2008, 02:57 PM
it is rediculous to tell someone to NOT get a puppy because YOU FEEL that THEY DONT have enough time for it.


In fairness though, I think people speak from their own experiences and often having gone through something gives you a far more realistic picture of what it takes than someone who has not done it might have.

Here's a perfect example, when I decided I was going to keep my two dogs a friend, who was actually the one to take them home in the first place, sat me down and pretty much told me I wasn't ready for a dog, much less two. He outlined all the ways in which my life, as I knew it, would totally change.

I did not take kindly to what I saw as unfair judgement of my abilities to care for dogs. I got so mad in fact that we didn't really talk to eachother for a good long time after that.

Guess what though? He was totally right on every single point, except that I stepped up to the challenge and changed my whole life around to accommodate the dogs rather than giving up. I even find myself now giving others the same "you don't really want a dog" lecture that he gave me.

So, I don't think that people are trying to be mean or overly critical, I think they are giving an honest and realistic opinion on just how much work it is to have a dog, much less a puppy. Not everyone is ready, or has the time, the flexibility or the sheer stubborness to hack it. The number of dogs "re-homed" at around a year old is proof of that.

On the other hand, there are those who totally surprise you and do what needs to be done and give their dog a fantastic life regardless of the obstacles. Proving people wrong is always an excellent motivator :laughing:

ETA: Back to the original question though. Being crated all day and then all night, to me, is way too much. Perhaps you could look into getting baby gates, or an x pen to contain the pup while you're at work and, in addition, try to work your schedule so that the puppy can be taken out at appropriate intervals through out the day or hire someone to do so for you.
Dr. Fosters and Smith carry a large selection of gates and the like which you could use to block off a small area in your house so that the puppy can't get into trouble while you're gone.

Or, you could always look into adopting a dog who is old enough not to need to be taken out quite as often ;)

babymomma
July 30th, 2008, 03:56 PM
I think you have every right in the world to get a puppy whenever you'd like(As long as you will take care of it properly of course, which i have no doubt you will treat him/her properly) .. Buut, You should definatly make a plan before getting him/her. I have wanted a dog ever since i was 2 (Im 15 now) But i never got one because of my parents bust sheduals and the fact that my mom is terrified of dogs. My mom works 7am-5pm everyday, and so do my dad, I go to school from 8am-3:30pm (In the summer i work from 7am-3pm) so getting a puppy that needs so much love, attention and training was pretty much out of the question. But, we reeeallly wanna get a puppy. So we all start our holidays on friday, for 3 weeks(Im on vaca for 4 weeks)so on Satuday im getting my puppy (a 12 week old Yorkshie terrier) I will have 4 weeks to train, love and care for my puppy almost everyminute of the day, so hopefully by the time its time for me to go back to shcool she will be ready to stay home in a penned in area by herself for a few hours. I toild you my stroy because We have it planned out Pretty well. We still have some flaws in the plan but it shoould work pretty good.So maybe if you can get a few vacation days you could get your puppy and stay home with him/her for the first few days until he/she gets used to your home!



Good luck with finding the perfect puppy!!!! May i suggest looking through your local shelter to find a nice puppy?:thumbs up

kigndano
July 30th, 2008, 04:06 PM
On the other hand, there are those who totally surprise you and do what needs to be done and give their dog a fantastic life regardless of the obstacles. Proving people wrong is always an excellent motivator :laughing:

ETA: Back to the original question though. Being crated all day and then all night, to me, is way too much. Perhaps you could look into getting baby gates, or an x pen to contain the pup while you're at work and, in addition, try to work your schedule so that the puppy can be taken out at appropriate intervals through out the day or hire someone to do so for you.
Dr. Fosters and Smith carry a large selection of gates and the like which you could use to block off a small area in your house so that the puppy can't get into trouble while you're gone.

Or, you could always look into adopting a dog who is old enough not to need to be taken out quite as often ;)

great idea on adopting the older dog. your other points are well taken, but it DOES come across sometimes as judgemental, you can vouch for that given your experience with your friend.

t.pettet
July 30th, 2008, 09:56 PM
Calling some member's replies to this post 'ridiculous' is rude and in your case uneducated. Everyone has a right to express their opinions/views and it is not in the best interest of the puppy to be alone for such long periods.

kigndano
July 31st, 2008, 06:49 AM
yet another personal attack....:sleepy:

the word ridiculous (FINALLY i spelled it right :D) does not have a negative connotation whatsoever.

i will still stand by my story that telling someone about their own schedule and available time for a dog is insufficient JUST because they work is RI-DIC-U-LOUS.

:sorry:

no one should judge anyone elses lifestyle and schedule.


The OP asked for help RE: house training, and people told her not to get a puppy.....

yet I am somehow the rude one....


get a clue.

aslan
July 31st, 2008, 07:03 AM
Deserving or inspiring ridicule; absurd, preposterous, or silly. See synonyms at foolish.

[From Latin rīdiculus, laughable, from rīdēre, to laugh.]
ridiculously ri·dic'u·lous·ly adv.
ridiculousness ri·dic'u·lous·ness n.
Click here to find out more!
Free Online Dictionary, Encyclopedia, Thesaurus and much more

There you now have the true definition of ridiculous. Now can we please move on. The topic is " puppy training".

Purpledomino
July 31st, 2008, 10:11 AM
yet another personal attack....:sleepy:

Well if you keep poking a bear, it will eventually bite you...
the word ridiculous (FINALLY i spelled it right :D) does not have a negative connotation whatsoever.

Well I'd hate to hear what you have to say when it is negative?

i will still stand by my story that telling someone about their own schedule and available time for a dog is insufficient JUST because they work is RI-DIC-U-LOUS.

I don't care if they are the Pope, are feeding starving children, or training for the Olympics. If there is no-one at home to care for or train the puppy, how is this condusive to housetraining, socializing, and the welfare of the pup?
:sorry:

no one should judge anyone elses lifestyle and schedule.

I would NEVER judge someones lifestyle and schedule, and take great offence to that. :mad: This was another mean comment.

The OP asked for help RE: house training, and people told her not to get a puppy.....

I suggest that you re-read my posts. I said it "COULD" be done under "exceptional" circumstances.

yet I am somehow the rude one....

I don't think you are rude dear.... what I think is that you're experience is limited by no fault of your own.

get a clue.

**unnessessary, see above. :frustrated:



I stand by my opinion. I agree that working people CAN have pets. Under "EXCEPTIONAL" circumstances when the pet is receiving the care and attention it needs. I also think it is unfair to expect a puppy to have any kind of progress in housetraining when there is no-one home to correct it and care for it. The best time to get a puppy (IMO :rolleyes:) is when there is a caregiver there to train, socialize, provide mental stimulation etc, etc. Sticking a puppy in a crate most of the day isn't going to provide this...period.

I believe this thread needs to stay on topic...and apologize for the need to defend my opinions. :sorry:

kigndano
July 31st, 2008, 10:52 AM
i started a new thread for that reason.

all of my comments were not directed at one poster, just in general.

babymomma
July 31st, 2008, 10:57 AM
now now children. Do you wnat this thread to be closed. Stop your bickering, or pm to each other your attacks. For the love of god give it up.


PUP#1- good luck with your puppy. Hope you find the perfect puppy soon!

kigndano
July 31st, 2008, 02:45 PM
lol

you know we are being foolish when a 15 year old is telling us to behave.

:sorry: if you aren't 15! i thought i heard it somewhere!


now now children. Do you wnat this thread to be closed. Stop your bickering, or pm to each other your attacks. For the love of god give it up.


PUP#1- good luck with your puppy. Hope you find the perfect puppy soon!

babymomma
July 31st, 2008, 02:48 PM
lol

you know we are being foolish when a 15 year old is telling us to behave.

:sorry: if you aren't 15! i thought i heard it somewhere!

I am 15. I hope i didnt offend you by saying this. Sorry if i did. :thumbs up


Again, I think we should apologize to the OP for Kinda threadjacking! lol...



Sorry Pup#1, I really hope you can work something out and be able to get a puppy! Sorry i couldnt be of any help:o

kigndano
July 31st, 2008, 02:49 PM
no no no not at all

you are right!

we should just let it go, but we cant/wont because we (i know i am at least) are pretty stubborn.

i made a new thread for the OP cuz we jacked the thread sooo badly.

babymomma
July 31st, 2008, 09:07 PM
no no no not at all

you are right!

we should just let it go, but we cant/wont because we (i know i am at least) are pretty stubborn.

i made a new thread for the OP cuz we jacked the thread sooo badly.

Im as stubborn as they come..lol;.. so i understand COMPLETELY where you are coming from.

I think it was very sweet of you to start another thread becuase we all jacked it!