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Puppy Foods - Are we missing an opportunity for adults?

TeriM
July 11th, 2008, 02:58 AM
I was looking at some food sites and got to thinking that perhaps we should be looking towards some of the good brand puppy foods to feed to our adult dogs as "life stages" food. Orijen is costing a freakin fortune these days and I am exploring some cheaper alternatives. I also like to change around the foods I serve now and then. The protein percentage in most of them is about 26-28% which I find much more suitable then the low 20-22% in many adult foods. I currently serve kibble for the morning meal and raw in the evenings for anyone interested.

A few examples:

California Naturals Chicken & Rice Puppy (also available as lamb formula)
Chicken Meal, Brown Rice, Rice, Chicken Fat, Sunflower Oil, Natural Flavors ...
Protein 26.0 %
Fat 16.0 %
Cost is around $50 for a 36 pound bag

OR

Wellness Puppy
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Salmon Meal (a natural source of DHA - Docosahexaenoic Acid), Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Ground Brown Rice, Tomato Pomace, Rice Bran, Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Rye Flour, Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Ground Millet, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins , Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Chicory Root Extract, Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products.
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein Not Less Than [B]28.0%
Crude Fat Not Less Than 17.0%
Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.0%

Anyone have any thoughts on this issue?

:confused:

Chaser
July 11th, 2008, 11:56 AM
I think you have a really good point TeriM....and I was just saying in another thread the other day how senior food is that much worse for reducing protein and getting carb heavy. Innova is one of the few senior foods I've seen that has 26% protein! I really agree with the idea that dogs should just eat LESS based on their age and activity level....Canidae had it right, too bad they're messing around with it :sad:

So how would one calculate the amount to feed to an adult? If a 50 lb. dog gets 2 cups of Wellness Adult a day, would 2 cups of Wellness Puppy work? I'm a little confused about that part of it...

hazelrunpack
July 11th, 2008, 01:47 PM
Some dog foods give the caloric value per unit of measure on the bag...if you can find what it is for each food, simply do the conversion to find out how much of the new food is necessary to match the caloric content of what they're eating now.

Does that make sense? :o Sounds complicated to me and I just typed it...

An example: just to make it simple, lets say it's 250 cal/cup for the old food, 500 cal/cup for the new. If they're eating 2 cups per day of the old food, they'd only need 1 cup per day of the new (500 calories per day). Of course the math is bound to be messier... :p

If you can't find caloric information on the bag, I'm sure if you emailed or called the companies, they'd be able to give you calories per measure.

Chaser
July 11th, 2008, 01:58 PM
Oh right, counting calories...DUH! :headslap: Makes sense Hazel.

I think I will really consider this idea....and it's a good solution for people with multiple dogs who are all on different formulas too.

My only concern about it is the increased fat....for Wellness it's a difference of 5% more for the puppy food. Is that a bad idea for our adult dogs? And especially seniors? :confused: :shrug:

hazelrunpack
July 11th, 2008, 02:19 PM
That one I'll refer back to the nutrition gurus. :D I'm much better at math than I am at the nuts and bolts of nutrition... :o

TeriM
July 11th, 2008, 02:26 PM
If you want Wellness and are concerned about the fat then the large puppy formula is as follows:
Deboned Chicken, Deboned Whitefish, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Peas, Ground Barley, Ground Brown Rice, Salmon Meal (a natural source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Tomato Pomace, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomatoes, Natural Chicken Flavor, Ground Flaxseed, Salmon Oil (a natural source of DHA - Docosahexaenoic Acid), Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Salt, Minerals [Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins [Beta-Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement], Choline Chloride, Taurine, Chicory Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Dried Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation products.

Guaranteed Analysis %:
Crude Protein (min) 26
Crude Fat (min) 12
Moisture (max) 11
Crude Fiber (max) 4.5
Calcium (min) 1
Phosphorous (min) 0.9

Regular Wellness Chicken is 407 calories per cup
Large Breed Puppy is only 366 calories.
Regular puppy is 450 calories per cup.

For comparison the Orijen Adult is 483 calories per cup and 16% fat.
Orijen Fish is also 483 calories and has 18% fat.

.

rainbow
July 11th, 2008, 02:31 PM
I would be concerned about the fat too although the amounts that Teri posted for the CN and Wellness are only a little more than what's in the adult grain-free brands. And what about the vitamin and mineral levels.....are they much different? :shrug:

I imagine it would be alright to feed occasionally but I guess you would have to ask a pet food nutritionist to find out if it is safe to feed on a long term basis. :)

TeriM
July 11th, 2008, 02:40 PM
I imagine it would be alright to feed occasionally but I guess you would have to ask a pet food nutritionist to find out if it is safe to feed on a long term basis. :)

Isn't that you Rainbow :D.

The Wellness site says for puppies to 24 months so I would think that means that tests have been performed to evaluate long term use.

Chaser
July 11th, 2008, 02:41 PM
I hadn't considered the fat levels in grain-free...good point.

Well I wouldn't just jump right into it, but I think it is something worth investigating TeriM. It's a really interesting idea. :)

rainbow
July 11th, 2008, 02:50 PM
Isn't that you Rainbow :D.

:laugh::laugh: ......hardly. :D


The Wellness site says for puppies to 24 months so I would think that means that tests have been performed to evaluate long term use

Why don't you email them and ask if it's okay to feed the puppy formula to Riley and Lucy? :)

rainbow
July 11th, 2008, 02:52 PM
Well I wouldn't just jump right into it, but I think it is something worth investigating TeriM. It's a really interesting idea. :)

Hee hee.....you think as cautiously as I do. :D

TeriM
July 11th, 2008, 03:07 PM
I emailed Wellness. This is from the California Naturals site for their puppy food.

Animal feeding tests using AAFCO (Association of American Feed Control Officials) procedures substantiate that California Natural Chicken Meal & Rice Dry Puppy Food provides complete and balanced nutrition for all life stages.

Chaser
July 11th, 2008, 03:51 PM
I emailed Wellness.

Can you let us know what they say as well? Thanks!

Chaser
July 11th, 2008, 03:53 PM
Hee hee.....you think as cautiously as I do. :D

I honestly have you to thank for getting me into looking critically at pet food....now I'm obsessed with researching and I don't think Boyfriend likes you very much for it! :laughing:

erykah1310
July 11th, 2008, 05:07 PM
I dont even feed puppy formulas to puppies so I doubt I would go feeding it to my adults.

What about the Calcium levels? Isnt it higher in Puppy formulas? Would that do any harm to an adult?

IMO ( and strictly My opinion) puppy formulas and adult formulas have very little difference to them, partially the reason I dont bother with it for puppies.

Then again, I dont know a whole lot about Kibble, its only a part time feeding here anyways:shrug:

geisha
July 11th, 2008, 09:15 PM
Here's my :2cents:. Today I was having a conversation about California Natural Lamb & Rice Puppy with the Global Food clerk and she commented that if my senior samoyed's weight was great just leave it at that otherwise she could get fat.
IM(humble)O the calcium levels in puppy food are less than or equal to adult as too much calcium in a large breed puppy could cause hip/joint problems. I also read that in dogaware.com.
If Rose had trouble keeping weight on I would consider a puppy formula but then again that's just me. Cheers.