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(This may cause a debate)- Pet stores

katherine93
June 21st, 2008, 08:47 PM
Okay.. So. Ive been thinking about this for a while now, and i know everybody on here says not to buy from a pet store but, Dont these animals deserve loving homes too? I mean, if these animals dont get sold, what happens to them? Back to the mill for breeding time? How about a nice euthanasia? I have a dog from a pet store, his name is bailey and i love him to no end. I cant imagine not having him in my home, he is a designer doggy(maltese ****zu mix) And we bought him becaue of the horrible shape he was in (severly underweight with an eye infection). I wish that these puppy mills and petstores would stop selling animals, but the sad thruth is, they will never stop. Therfore homes are needed for these animals, so how can you sit there and tell people not to buy from a petstore, but go adopt from a shelter? Guess where most shelter dogs come from, Most are from homes that bought from a petstore that didnt care where the dog is going as long as it was being sold. So buying from a petstore is pretty much saving the animal shelters time and money. Cause most are going to end up in the shelter. just my opinion, i think these dogs deserve homes just as much as a shletr dog, if not more, because there lives have been bad enough already. You try being behind a peice of glass 4 feet long and 2 feet wide for your life, maybe than you would support buying from petstores.I am fully aware that i am going to cause a argument , but i had to ask your opinions, and get it off my chest.

Frenchy
June 21st, 2008, 08:50 PM
but the sad thruth is, they will never stop.

I will never stop if people keep buying pets from petshops. :shrug: You are only feeding the demand when you do. :shrug:

katherine93
June 21st, 2008, 08:57 PM
I will never stop if people keep buying pets from petshops. :shrug: You are only feeding the demand when you do. :shrug:

So everbody stops buying them, what happens to the puppys already born and ready for homes? I suppose the shelters all have room for them? And getting hit over the back of the head with a shovel is a great alternative to a home.

katherine93
June 21st, 2008, 09:02 PM
Pictures of bailey, he came from a pet store, no doubt from a puppy mill. Look how he turned out, beautiful, healthy, caring, loving. And most of all happy.

Dingo
June 21st, 2008, 09:16 PM
The cold truth is that it's likely better for a few animals to suffer than to perpetuate the cycle by buying a pet store puppy. If no one bought dogs from pet stores there'd be no demand and therefore no reason to keep breeding them. The more people keep buying pet store dogs because they feel sorry for them, the more other dogs are going to be used as breeding machines to create more puppies.

Chaser
June 21st, 2008, 09:18 PM
Bailey's very cute Katherine! :lovestruck:

I can understand where you're coming from for sure. My friend, despite knowing better, saw a 16-week cattle dog pup in a pet store last summer and ended up buying her. She didn't want to support the store or the mills - but the pup was so big it could hardly turn around in it's cage, had already been returned once by a family, and was probably all of a week away from being sent away and killed :sad:

I personally wouldn't buy from a pet store, but I can see how some people (even those who know better) still do. Despite the large-scale problem of puppy mills, it's next to impossible to look into a puppy's face and turn it down because of other people's misdeeds.

I think one of the best things we can do is keep talking about the problem and raising awareness. Governments need to be pressured to strengthen animal cruelty laws and to shut puppy mills down entirely. The current situation of people who are well-informed avoiding pet stores isn't really helping, because the majority of people still think it's okay. It's the same as people who are against Wal-Mart. We can boycott to our hearts content, but when 95% of the population is still shopping there, it doesn't do much good. *sigh* Sorry, I'll take off my "social work" hat now...

Boubou
June 21st, 2008, 09:31 PM
OK, maybe the next time we raid a puppy mill that supplies puppies for pet stores, you can volunteer and come along to help us remove the mothers from the cages that they've been held prisoner in their entire lives. Maybe then you might understand why you shouldn't encourage this industry by buying puppies in pet shops.

What most people don't understand is that behind their cute, fluffy, sweet puppy that brings them joy and happiness is a mother who is living a life of hell in a cage, never to be let out to feel grass under her paws, living her in own filth, usually in a dark shed or barn. These are the forgotten ones, the ones who never get the chance to be loved, hugged, kissed like their puppies do.

Every time a puppy is sold in a pet store, another is produced to replace it. Plain and simple, you are supporting these horrible people that run these 'businesses'.

There are some good anti-puppy mill sites on the web - why don't you check a few of them out - pictures don't lie!

Frenchy
June 21st, 2008, 09:38 PM
Boubou , I wanted to post a pictures of the females in their cages .... but I won't. But I strongly advice anyone to check out those puppy mills websites. :sad:

Up until now , I have fostered 3 of these females , the third one is Nelly. And she's nothing to compare to the 2 golden females I fostered before her :sad:

at least Nelly wasn't beaten on , well I don't think so anyway.

poodletalk
June 21st, 2008, 09:43 PM
Katherine, please watch this video. The little white dog is a dog that my friend has adopted.

The great danes is part of a seizure we did last year from a puppy mill, French is fostering a great dane from the seizure.

Maybe the pups at the petstores are cute and cuddly looking, but look at their mothers. Anyone who watches this video, will understand
why you shouldn't buy at a petstore but adopt instead from a rescue or SPCA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qM4sye1XDs

Chaser
June 21st, 2008, 09:51 PM
That video is really incredible poodletalk - thank you for posting the link to it.

Just to specifiy, in case it is not clear from my previous post. I have not and will never support pet stores that sell animals. I was just trying to say that I can understand how it is hard to say no to the puppies there.

LavenderRott
June 21st, 2008, 10:09 PM
Of course the puppies in the pet shops are cute! How else would they sell? It takes a pretty strong, educated person to look at them and keep on walking.

Puppy mills work on the law of supply and demand - you demand (buy) and they will do their best to supply. And make no mistakes about it - they are in it for the money and nothing else.

The typical mill has a male in a cage with several females. This ensures that there is always an available male to breed with females when they are ready. Often times, the females are given hormones so that they come into season and breed more then the usual twice a year. Females who have problems delivering are very often operated on by the breeder with no anesthetic and improper/unclean knives, sutured up with fishing line and never see a vet. If they live, they are bred as soon as they come into season again. If they don't, they are thrown out and the puppies are given to another nursing mother.

Dogs in mills are usually kept in barns or other buildings with no heat or air conditioning. If the temperatures get too hot or too cold - the breeder doesn't care. Food, the really cheap stuff - you really can't afford the good stuff when you have dozens of dogs (and you are trying to make a profit) to feed. A lot of mills don't even feed the dogs daily. Water is also an option.

I know a woman who is very active in fighting mills. She has a lovely dachshund that is a mill rescue. It took her several years to rescue her as she was a very good breeder and sold at auctions for more money then her future rescuer had with her. She now lives a wonderful life with nothing asked of her. What is so special about this dog, you ask? She was born with no eyes.

Next time you go to a pet shop - look at the puppies. Then ask the price of the puppy that you like the most. Then go - talk to an ETHICAL breeder and see what they sell their puppies for. I can almost guarantee you that a well bred puppy is not only comparable but usually cheaper.

Yes, it would be awful if the puppies in the pet shops didn't sell. It would be very sad if they were put to sleep because they don't sell. But there are thousands of dogs living in filth to provide those sweet puppies. Don't they deserve a chance too?

luckypenny
June 21st, 2008, 11:56 PM
Katherine, I can see where you're coming from, but you have to look at the bigger picture. It may break your heart to look at those puppies in the window, but trust us when we say, it would kill you to look at where they are coming from. Please look at the link Poodletalk posted. Many of us members here know these dogs personally and have seen them in their worst pitiful states :sad: .

Poodletalk, thanks for posting that...I've never seen the video before and haven't even looked at some of those photos since I had taken them :sad: . At least we are reassured that those will never ever produce any more puppies for profit.

Next time someone sees that adorable puppy in the window, picture it's parents litterally rotting away in some other cage not so far away :sad: .

krdahmer
June 22nd, 2008, 12:18 AM
I can't even watch the videos, just knowing what goes on there is enough. It breaks my heart and makes me sick, and the hard truth is that the demand (people buying from pet stores) is why they are in business and why so many animals have to suffer.

I too reasoned like you do Katherine when I bought my Windy at a pet store thinking that she too deserved a home no matter where she came from. But as I got into fostering etc and found this site, a bigger picture came into focus. No one can argue, if the pet stores were unable to sell the pets, then the mills would make no money, and if there was no money to be made... well I can guarantee they wouldn't be doing it just for the fun of it. It breaks my heart to see all those faces in cages... but the thought of all the others suffering in cages elsewhere unseen is much more disturbing.

Your Bailey is adorable, and was obviously meant for you. And he is lucky to have such a wonderful home.

MIA
June 22nd, 2008, 12:42 AM
I am sure you love your puppy and that's wonderful. In the 10 years I have been doing rescue 90% of the dogs I have taken out of the local shelters (all due to be euthanized) were purchased at the local dog stores and all originated in puppy mills from the US, I am in BC.

When someone buys a dog at a pet store, they are simply opening up a cage for another puppy and keeping the cycle going, you aren't saving anything sadly.

My very first rescue came from a local store and originated in a mill in Missouri, I got the most recent USDA inspection report on the mill she came from, at the time of inspection they had 264 dogs, that's not a reputable breeding facility.

One of the cities near here tightened their pet store laws for puppy keeping/selling and most stores stopped selling pups and or shut down, it was a good thing as no more dogs are suffering and they cycle stopped.

Please do some reading at www.nopuppymillscanada.ca Puppy mills are a major problem in North America.

SolaMio
June 22nd, 2008, 06:28 AM
I think one of the best things we can do is keep talking about the problem and raising awareness. Governments need to be pressured to strengthen animal cruelty laws and to shut puppy mills down entirely. The current situation of people who are well-informed avoiding pet stores isn't really helping, because the majority of people still think it's okay. It's the same as people who are against Wal-Mart. We can boycott to our hearts content, but when 95% of the population is still shopping there, it doesn't do much good. *sigh* Sorry, I'll take off my "social work" hat now...

You read my mind Chase_Mom. There need to be firmer laws.. We can't rely solely on consumers to change this industry (in my opinion). Of course it's good to educate potential pet owners to make an informed decision, I'm not sure "Joe and Jane Public" are entirely aware of the situation in mills- there may be a vague sense of "Oh I know I'm not supposed to buy from a pet store, but..."

katherine93, don't feel badly about your pup. She's adorable and I'm sure has a great home. I can relate to what you're saying, because before knowing the difference, I purchase Sola from a BYB (back yard breeder). I discovered this forum and a whole whack of information about BYBs two months too late! I love my happy (and healthy dog). But, when I eventually find her a friend when she's a little older, it won't be in the same fashion. Maybe the same with you :thumbs up

Lukka'sma
June 22nd, 2008, 06:59 AM
Okay.. So. Ive been thinking about this for a while now, and i know everybody on here says not to buy from a pet store but, Dont these animals deserve loving homes too? I mean, if these animals dont get sold, what happens to them? Back to the mill for breeding time? How about a nice euthanasia? I have a dog from a pet store, his name is bailey and i love him to no end. I cant imagine not having him in my home, he is a designer doggy(maltese ****zu mix) And we bought him becaue of the horrible shape he was in (severly underweight with an eye infection). I wish that these puppy mills and petstores would stop selling animals, but the sad thruth is, they will never stop. Therfore homes are needed for these animals, so how can you sit there and tell people not to buy from a petstore, but go adopt from a shelter? Guess where most shelter dogs come from, Most are from homes that bought from a petstore that didnt care where the dog is going as long as it was being sold. So buying from a petstore is pretty much saving the animal shelters time and money. Cause most are going to end up in the shelter. just my opinion, i think these dogs deserve homes just as much as a shletr dog, if not more, because there lives have been bad enough already. You try being behind a peice of glass 4 feet long and 2 feet wide for your life, maybe than you would support buying from petstores.I am fully aware that i am going to cause a argument , but i had to ask your opinions, and get it off my chest.

Well, have you had your question answered?

ancientgirl
June 22nd, 2008, 07:58 AM
The only pet store I'd ever get a pet in is a store like Petsmart or Petco. Those places work with rescues to help with those "puppy mill" or "kitty mill" animals. I can't bring myself to watch a video like the one posted. I do wish anyone who buys from a pet store stocked full of puppies and kittens sees videos like that. They'd never even think about a pet store after that.

katherine93
June 22nd, 2008, 09:05 AM
I know what the animals go through in puppy mills, and it makes me sick to my stomach.. But i beg of you, watch this video, if you have a heart you will... I admit it is disturbing, but it shows you the sad truth of puppy mills, and even some sheelters. It is a little graphic towards the end. And i would like someones opinion on how they treat the last dog. Because that part pissed me off more than anyof it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0KucYppXO0


Boubou- I have seen alot of documentarys about puppy mills, and alot of footage of the actual parents and living conditions. And my heart aches for them. I just wish that we, as people could do more for them, that includes the puppies at the shops. We need more laws for this. And stronger laws. Have people in the government wathced any of these videos? If not they should, and if thjey have, how can they just sit back and do nothing? I wish i could do more, but as a fifteen year old, here isnt much i can do. I wish there were, but in newfoundland(i dunno about what its like where your from) but they would never let us go along to bust one of these places. I honestly wish i could. Even if i could i would probably be put behind bars for the rest of my life for murder of the B******s running the mills.



I have more to say but i have to go and visit my aunt. Will say more later!

Sabine
June 22nd, 2008, 09:46 AM
Take a good look at some of the places where your petstore puppy came from:

www.prisonersofgreed.org

This needs to stop !! And buying from petstores will only fuel the "industry". :evil:

Lukka'sma
June 22nd, 2008, 10:25 AM
I know what the animals go through in puppy mills, and it makes me sick to my stomach.. But i beg of you, watch this video, if you have a heart you will... I admit it is disturbing, but it shows you the sad truth of puppy mills, and even some sheelters. It is a little graphic towards the end. And i would like someones opinion on how they treat the last dog. Because that part pissed me off more than anyof it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0KucYppXO0


Boubou- I have seen alot of documentarys about puppy mills, and alot of footage of the actual parents and living conditions. And my heart aches for them. I just wish that we, as people could do more for them, that includes the puppies at the shops. We need more laws for this. And stronger laws. Have people in the government wathced any of these videos? If not they should, and if thjey have, how can they just sit back and do nothing? I wish i could do more, but as a fifteen year old, here isnt much i can do. I wish there were, but in newfoundland(i dunno about what its like where your from) but they would never let us go along to bust one of these places. I honestly wish i could. Even if i could i would probably be put behind bars for the rest of my life for murder of the B******s running the mills.



I have more to say but i have to go and visit my aunt. Will say more later!

I think if you take the time to actually read each and every word that the above posters have taken the time to write you will see what you can do to help the puppies in mills and pet stores, the first thing would be to stop buying from pet stores and fueling the fire to produce another pup to take the place of the purchased one.

aslan
June 22nd, 2008, 10:36 AM
Katherine, you've just totally contradicted yourself, yes it would be totally unfortunate for the several hundred puppies that are in the pet stores now. but would you rather risk them, or the THOUSANDS of poor dogs stuck in the cages you yourself posted pictures of. Sometimes you have to sacrifice the few to save the many.

kigndano
June 22nd, 2008, 10:43 AM
after buying my dog at a puppy store and reading up on the dangers i will never get another dog at one again.

i do agree that the puppies needs homes too, but like a lot of people have said buying them there doesnt slow the process at all.

cease of sales of pets and supplies at the stores will stop it, but that may be an impossible battle, so who knows if it will ever get there.

Sabine
June 22nd, 2008, 11:05 AM
I rescued one of the mothers, and let me tell you: She breaks my heart !! Even now, two years after her rescue she does not trust anyone - not even me at times.

I feel like locking puppymillers up in tiny cages and have THEM pee on each other, have them starve, have them ripped their limbs off by wire cages, have them try to raise pups under crueling conditions, have them rip their children out from under them at a tender age and have them disposed of once they don't produce any more. THAT'S what I feel like doing to them. :mad: