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Dog Farts - I've had enough!!!

Myka
June 2nd, 2008, 03:28 PM
:yuck::yuck::yuck:

Long story short...Myka had been on Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Adult for many, many years. She rarely had troubles with gas.

I changed her to a raw diet on February 2nd of this year that she was on for about 6 weeks when I tossed in the towel because I couldn't find affordable meats in my area. :sad: Myka had really stinky farts if I fed her beef or pork, but no farts otherwise. This was the first time in her life she had any sizable amounts of beef or pork proteins as none of her previous foods had either in it, although she had treats and chewies on occasion that were beef/pork.

Around March 1st I put Myka onto Evo Red Meat Large Bites. Holy PEEYOO!!! :yuck: Stinky doggie!!! I did some reading, and found out that this was a common complaint with Evo because of the high protein content - that it is so rich. So I decided to change foods - again.

Around April 21st I put Myka onto Califronia Naturals Lamb and Rice. She's never had lamb in her life. This morning she has cleared me out of the room three times already. :frustrated:

Should I just put her back onto the Nutro's, or should I try Wellness or Orijen? :shrug:

Chris21711
June 2nd, 2008, 03:38 PM
I'm no expert on nutrition so I can't tell you what or what not to feed. As far as Nutro is concerned, the one thing that I noticed is that they have really large stools regardless of breed, which makes me think that not too much goodness is being absorbed into their system. I feed Merrick (not grain free) with canned or cooked food as a mix. I have been undecided on going to no grain as I am still not decided on protein amounts. That is me just dithering not because I'm some kind of savant.

want4rain
June 2nd, 2008, 03:57 PM
if i were you, id find a fish based and rabbit based kibble and supplement with raw chicken. feed raw chicken/turkey backs 3 X weekly and then feed the kibble the other 4 days alternating between the two. since she is stinky on the heavier meats (lamb, beef, pork, probably moose, bison and so on), id stay away from those. the chicken, turkey (although that may cause problems also), fish and rabbit are plenty of protein sources. the ADDED protein probably isnt the problem but likely the KIND of protein that is. :)

if you still dont want to do the raw thing, finding a chicken based, another rabbit based and finally a fish based one can give you some variety in proteins. are you convinced you really want to go grain free with your dog?

-ashley

Myka
June 2nd, 2008, 04:53 PM
Thanks for the replies! :)

I do know that Nutro isn't a very good dog food. I would venture to say that it is likely the best you can get at the average pet store. The knowledge that Nutro isn't the best is what made me decide to start screwing around with her foods. The raw isn't an option just because of ridiculous meat prices here. I was averaging $4-6/lb on raw, and my dog is a pig. She's lean, and she easily eats 4 1/2 cups of kibble.

the ADDED protein probably isnt the problem but likely the KIND of protein that is.

This was my suspicion, and I was going to get Myka a chicken based Innova food, but the guy at the store convinced me to try the California Naturals because of the lower protein. This is also why I have considered Wellness or Orijen next.

are you convinced you really want to go grain free with your dog?

Pfff!! No!!!! :laughing: After reading these forums, particularly the raw forums, I thought it was supposed to be the GRAINS in the food that caused gas. :confused: The California Naturals that she is on right now isn't grain free though.

geisha
June 4th, 2008, 02:51 PM
Have you tried digestive enzymes or probiotics? I can't remember how much are you feeding Myka? You probably already know this, (I feel like a MIL) with a premium food your pup requires less.

Myka
June 4th, 2008, 11:32 PM
Have you tried digestive enzymes or probiotics? I can't remember how much are you feeding Myka? You probably already know this, (I feel like a MIL) with a premium food your pup requires less.

Myka eats way more than the charts on any food ever say she should eat. When she was on Evo she ate about 3 3/4 cups. On California Naturals she eats about 4 1/2 cups. She is very lean...her ribs are visible. I'm actually not sure the last time she was wormed, although she had her shots done not too long ago, and I can't remember if he wormed her or not. But she has alsways eaten a lot more than the charts say.

I just picked up some Eagle Pack Holistic Solution which has probiotics and digestive enzymes in it. I also picked up a bag of Wellness Core Chicken & Turkey. So she got her first dose of the Holistic Solution and first little taste of Wellness mixed in with her Caifornia Naturals.

I decided to try this Wellness Core because this will determine whether it is the amount of protein she gets or the type of protein she gets which gives her gas.

I don't know how good the Holistic Solution is, but the lady in the store ("ultra premium" dog & cat store) swore by it. If this doesn't work, I will try the "human" probiotics capsules that you keep in the fridge.

growler~GateKeeper
June 4th, 2008, 11:57 PM
If she's eating much and still not gaining weight I would take in a stool sample to check for worms, you can do that w/bringing her in and w/out appt.

With the various food changes I would still add a separate probiotic to her food. Usually the amount in the food is not as much as you would give based on weight, plus it has been cooked/processed so it does lose some efficacy.

My cat is on PB8 (http://www.nutritionnow.com/PB8.htm) human probiotic capsules which don't need refridgeration, the only place I have found it here is my homeopathic vets, if you there is one over there they can order it in for you if they don't already stock it.

Another good one that I have used w/my cat is Wysong Pet Inoculant (http://www.wysong.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WOTTPWS&Product_Code=PI011&Category_Code=SUP&Product_Count=10) - it is only available as a liquid & must be refridgerated.

Myka
June 5th, 2008, 12:13 AM
If she's eating much and still not gaining weight I would take in a stool sample to check for worms, you can do that w/bringing her in and w/out appt.

With the various food changes I would still add a separate probiotic to her food. Usually the amount in the food is not as much as you would give based on weight, plus it has been cooked/processed so it does lose some efficacy.

The Eagle Pack Holistic Solution is not a food. It is an additive.
http://www.eaglepack.com/Pages/HS_DigestiveAids.html

She's eating a mix of California Naturals and Wellness Core right now, not Eagle Pack. Eagle Pack is just the food additive.

I honestly don't think it is worms. I know for sure she was wormed last summer when she was getting her heartworm med which has the regular worming in it too. She hasn't had the heartworm med this year yet. Not sure if I should or not...

Her coat is nice and shiny, and she looks good and healthy. She's not TOO skinny, she's lean. A healthy weight.

growler~GateKeeper
June 5th, 2008, 12:25 AM
oops my bad I totally skipped over that one :o

The feeding charts are always just a guideline, alot depends on breed, metabolism, activity levels

Just a note on the pork - that is usually not used in dog/cat food raw (I've asked cuz my grrl loves cooked ham) or otherwise because apparently it is harder for them to digest as well as being a bit higher in sodium, I suspect that was part of the problem. :shrug:

How are her poops looking?

want4rain
June 5th, 2008, 09:18 AM
Thanks for the replies! :)

I do know that Nutro isn't a very good dog food. I would venture to say that it is likely the best you can get at the average pet store. The knowledge that Nutro isn't the best is what made me decide to start screwing around with her foods. The raw isn't an option just because of ridiculous meat prices here. I was averaging $4-6/lb on raw, and my dog is a pig. She's lean, and she easily eats 4 1/2 cups of kibble.

im sorry, not sure how i missed this!!

This was my suspicion, and I was going to get Myka a chicken based Innova food, but the guy at the store convinced me to try the California Naturals because of the lower protein. This is also why I have considered Wellness or Orijen next.

*shrugs* if you want to, you can supplement occasionally with raw chicken. wont hurt anything. :) im not convinced dogs need to go grain FREE, but much lower grain content for sure. Mister still gets a fair amount of grains. maybe 15% of his diet?? we would probably feed a combo of kibble along with raw (if only for convenience) but his allergies are horrific. exploding butt kind of horrific.

Pfff!! No!!!! :laughing: After reading these forums, particularly the raw forums, I thought it was supposed to be the GRAINS in the food that caused gas. :confused: The California Naturals that she is on right now isn't grain free though.

from my understanding, using grains as a PROTEIN source is damaging to your carnivorous pets. finding it in reasonable adds valuable vitamins and minerals. as with most things, in moderation. :) maybe someone was confusing the effects of grains on cats?? i think it can make them gassy??

-ashley

Myka
June 5th, 2008, 10:03 AM
How are her poops looking?

Good. Fairly dark, not too hard, not too soft.

*shrugs* if you want to, you can supplement occasionally with raw chicken. wont hurt anything. :) im not convinced dogs need to go grain FREE, but much lower grain content for sure. Mister still gets a fair amount of grains. maybe 15% of his diet?? we would probably feed a combo of kibble along with raw (if only for convenience) but his allergies are horrific. exploding butt kind of horrific.

The problem with kibble that does have grain in it, is that it makes up like 40% of the food, even the better stuff like California Naturals has A LOT of rice in it.

Grain free kibble does allow me to supplement her diet a bit with some brown rice, which may help her to keep weight without eating so much kibble.

want4rain
June 5th, 2008, 10:20 AM
with as high energy as your dog seems, i wouldnt cut out grains. they are a great source of energy. make sure she has a good source of fat also. if you are concerned about the amount of grains, feed some extra meat and eggs (of which dont make her gassy!! :laughing: )

wasnt your dog the super picky one??? what was it she WOULD eat?? i woudl think that even if you just supplement whatever high quality kibble you feed with raw chicken parts (you could probably safely exclude the organs since you feed kibble also), eggs and raw or canned fish if you want. make it anywhere from 25%to 50% of her diet. i mean its something you woudl have to fiddle with to make sure she is getting proper nutrition, energy and protein.

-ashley

DoubleRR
June 5th, 2008, 10:49 AM
Myka picky? Since when, lol. Dharma says HI MYKA long time no run together. Thinking about what you say about Myka being trim and usually eating more than on the bag--you will probably have to have some grain in her diet. Since going grain free, my two are now lean mean machines, but I have to be careful to feed just a bit more than the bag asks for to keep them from losing weight too far. I also supplement extra fat and they get yoghurt with probiotics in it in their Kongs most days.

Myka
June 5th, 2008, 08:40 PM
with as high energy as your dog seems, i wouldnt cut out grains. they are a great source of energy. make sure she has a good source of fat also. if you are concerned about the amount of grains, feed some extra meat and eggs (of which dont make her gassy!! :laughing: )

Ya, I do think she needs grains, but if I get a grain-free kibble than I can control how much grains she gets instead of buying a kibble that is 30-60% grain. Ya know?

wasnt your dog the super picky one??? what was it she WOULD eat?? i woudl think that even if you just supplement whatever high quality kibble you feed with raw chicken parts (you could probably safely exclude the organs since you feed kibble also), eggs and raw or canned fish if you want. make it anywhere from 25%to 50% of her diet. i mean its something you woudl have to fiddle with to make sure she is getting proper nutrition, energy and protein.

-ashley

Yes, she was VERY picky with the raw diet. She only eats pricey meats!!! She won't eat chicken with bone in it - even if I seared it a bit, won't touch fish. She LOVES beef and pork. I do give her an egg about once a week when I remember to, and she gets a can of Tripett once a week too, split up into 2 or 3 meals.

Myka picky? Since when, lol. Dharma says HI MYKA long time no run together. Thinking about what you say about Myka being trim and usually eating more than on the bag--you will probably have to have some grain in her diet. Since going grain free, my two are now lean mean machines, but I have to be careful to feed just a bit more than the bag asks for to keep them from losing weight too far. I also supplement extra fat and they get yoghurt with probiotics in it in their Kongs most days.

Myka says hi to Dharma too!!!! They sure played rough, eh?!! Myka still cocks her head if you ask her where Dharma is. :laughing:

Ya Myka was REALLY picky with raw food when I tried it, but she will eat ANY kibble. :rolleyes:

What kind of fat do you give them? Myka gets a tsp of Salmon oil about 3 times a week. It stinks something awful! :yuck:

DoubleRR
June 6th, 2008, 10:15 AM
Myka says hi to Dharma too!!!! They sure played rough, eh?!! Myka still cocks her head if you ask her where Dharma is. :laughing:

Ya Myka was REALLY picky with raw food when I tried it, but she will eat ANY kibble. :rolleyes:

What kind of fat do you give them? Myka gets a tsp of Salmon oil about 3 times a week. It stinks something awful!

Dharma still plays rough with Caesar--until he yelps some days, :)
I give them fish oil capsules and primrose oil capsules in their kibble. It all disappears together! No stink.

Myka
June 6th, 2008, 10:23 AM
I might switch to capsules when this bottle of Salmon oil is done...but it's a big 'un!!

No change in farts as of this morning. :yuck:

Purpledomino
June 7th, 2008, 01:17 PM
Another suggestion. You may try adding green tripe to your dog's diet. It aids in digestion and contains lots of good healthy stuff. Just be prepared because it smells worst than the dog farts! :eek:


http://www.tripett.com/

want4rain
June 7th, 2008, 01:29 PM
i think she does already!! :thumbs up

-ashley

Purpledomino
June 7th, 2008, 02:07 PM
i think she does already!! :thumbs up

-ashley

Oopsie......so she does, missed that part. :o

Myka
June 7th, 2008, 03:11 PM
Ya, I do feed Tripett, about 1 can per week. :)

One thing though, I used to feed Myka about 2/3 of a can instead of kibble for one meal of the day. The lady at the pet food store said this is "too rich" to replace the meal with, that I should just add some as replacement of part of her meal. Myka doesn't get runs or farts from eating 2/3 of a can as a meal replacement. If it was "too rich", wouldn't it give her the runs? I figured that Tripett kind of counts as "raw", and that it should be fed like raw, as in not with kibble. What's right?

pitgrrl
June 7th, 2008, 04:39 PM
Honestly, I would try a digestive enzyme, but one more potent than the Eagle Pack stuff. Solid Gold makes a dog one, I use Organix Digestive Enzymes from the health food store and it's made a significant difference in the dogs' digestive health.

Myka
June 7th, 2008, 09:09 PM
Ya, the Eagle Pack stuff just happened to be there and it was easy to just grab and try it out. But as I said above, if this doesn't work, then I will try some of the human grade stuff you put in the fridge. :)

Purpledomino
June 7th, 2008, 09:21 PM
I wonder if some breeds are just more gassy naturally than others. I had the pleasure of spending a couple hours drive in a motorhome with my friends Boston Terrier. She lay at my feet the entire trip, and let one go on average of every ten minutes. Just when the air would clear....she'd fart again and it was the nastiest thing. I've heard that bully breeds are notorious for this...my Bullmastiff isn't too bad though thank goodness.

BTW, this is "supposed" to be typical of Bostons....the wife says it's the breed. The husband says it's the food. She gets EVO dry.... :shrug:

pitgrrl
June 8th, 2008, 11:56 AM
I wonder if some breeds are just more gassy naturally than others.

I've heard this too, most often, if not exclusively, about bull breeds (Boxers, Staffies and APBT being the ones I most frequently hear about). To me though, it's like saying 'it's normal for these breeds to have bad digestive health'.

Granted, Boxers are prone to a host of digestive problems, and perhaps the same is true to a lesser degree of bull breeds in general, but my suspicion is that the predisposition is then exploited by food which isn't really working for the dog.

What each individual dog will do well on obviously varies a great deal. My dogs had gas pretty regularly when eating kibble whereas now, being fed raw, gas is a sign of a digestive upset. I have friends who's dogs do best on something like California Natural kibble, etc. All this to say, I guess, that to me, being a bit neurotic, regular gas is something to pay attention to, not written off as "normal for the breed".

But as I said above, if this doesn't work, then I will try some of the human grade stuff you put in the fridge. :)

Just so it's clear, because the two get used interchangeably pretty often, digestive enzymes are not probiotics, and vice versa. Probitoics are what are usually kept in the fridge, whereas digestive enzymes are usually found on the shelf with other supplements. Not to say you couldn't try adding both, but just so it's clear.

Myka
June 10th, 2008, 12:07 AM
I'm aware that digestive enzymes and probiotics are different, although I haven't bothered to find out what makes them different from eachother. :o

So far so good on the food transition, there seems to a tiny bit less gas. But I'm not totally sure on that.

I'm starting to think that maybe it's a good idea to feed both the Wellness Core Turkey & Chicken and the California Naturals Lamb & Rice as she would then be getting 3 different meat proteins as well as some grains for carbohydrates. It could very well be a perfect mix.

geisha
June 10th, 2008, 11:42 AM
According to the Ig Nobel Prizes Book volume 2, the maker of Beano has a product called CurTail (a version of Beano for dogs).
The maker is quoted as saying,
"At last an end to those dreadful moments in your living room when people don't know whether to look at the dog or at each other. Would you like your pet to have a new air of innocence so you'll all breathe easier? Try CurTail drops."
It may be worth a try? Food for thought. :pawprint:

geisha
June 10th, 2008, 08:45 PM
Unfortunately the makers of CurTail emailed back to say that due to production costs CurTail has not been for sale for years. :crazy:

dogmelissa
June 11th, 2008, 02:47 PM
My personal thought, after reading how many things you've tried her with, how she's picky about some things, and never had problems before, is that you just go back to the Nutro.

I know that you say it's not the best food, and in terms of individual ingredients and what some experts say is the "right" things to feed your dog, maybe it's not. But your dog was doing well on it, she didn't clear the room with her farts and obviously if she made it to 9 years old without any problems, it's good enough for her.

You can still supplement with things like yogurt, enzymes, tripe, etc, which will help her maximize the nutrition from her kibble, but it sounds to me like that's probably the best solution.

To put it in perspective, we just lost my first cat last week. He was 21 years old, an indoor/outdoor cat, had FIV (cat version of HIV), kidney disease and massive dental problems (in the last few years). Until his kidneys got quite bad (around age 16), he ate exclusively Iams dry cat food. Most people would freak out if I suggested Iams, but hey, it worked for him - and I've known lots of people who fed their animals much "better" food and they didn't live nearly as long or have as few problems as that cat did.

Just my two bits, and some "food" for thought.

(On a side note, my dog eats Natural Balance Fish formula exclusively - he was very gassy on the NB duck formula and though he still has some gas, it's not what I'd consider "abnormal")

Good luck,
Melissa

Myka
June 11th, 2008, 11:49 PM
Melissa, it's funny you say that because I have been leaning strongly towards going back to Nutro. It has worked well for her for the last 6 or so years, so maybe I should just go back.

We had brother and sister cats who were fed crap cat food. They got mainly Alley Cat, but Friskies, and Purina too. They lived until 18 with no troubles until one got hit by a car, and one got eaten by a cougar (we're guessing since she disappeared when there was a cougar sighted in the neighbourhood).

I think genetics has more to do with it than food. :shrug:

rainbow
June 12th, 2008, 04:20 AM
I would think twice about going back to Nutro. Since it has been taken over by the Mars Corp. there have been lots of reports about dogs getting sick on it.

Myka
June 12th, 2008, 10:10 AM
Grrrrrrrrrrreat, now there's NO non-fart food for Myka!!! How long ago did that happen?

dogmelissa
June 17th, 2008, 12:01 PM
Grrrrrrrrrrreat, now there's NO non-fart food for Myka!!! How long ago did that happen?

"Mars, Incorporated to Acquire Nutro Products, Inc.
McLean, VA, May 1, 2007 Mars, Incorporated today announced the signing of a definitive agreement to acquire the global pet food operations of Nutro Products Inc., a leading manufacturer of high nutrition, high performance dog and cat foods sold in pet specialty and farm and feed stores."

Long story short - if you were feeding Nutro last year, probably post-August, you were probably feeding Mars-produced Nutro. If Myka was doing fine on it, then I honestly wouldn't worry. Nutro was implicated in the big Menu Foods recall with the melamine-tainted ingredients last year, but that would have been before Mars bought them, and there were so many food manufacturers involved in that whole debacle that I really can't fault any one of them - they honestly thought they were getting the same clean materials they'd been getting for years.

How is the gas/poo situation now? Have you changed anything?

Melissa

clm
June 17th, 2008, 01:05 PM
I know you had said the heartworm meds you had her on covered her for worms, but they don't cover tapeworms which could be another reason why she eats a lot and is gassy. I'd send in a stool sample to be sure. Easy to get rid of with a few pills if she has them.

I've recently found Natural Balance Instinct dog and foods. Canned and kibble. My dogs and cats love the stuff. I get 3 different varieties. The Chicken, Rabbit and Duck/Turkey kibble. Now my dogs haven't been gassey in the past so it may not be a solution for you, but might be worth a try.

Cindy

Myka
June 18th, 2008, 10:10 AM
Long story short - if you were feeding Nutro last year, probably post-August, you were probably feeding Mars-produced Nutro. If Myka was doing fine on it, then I honestly wouldn't worry. Nutro was implicated in the big Menu Foods recall with the melamine-tainted ingredients last year, but that would have been before Mars bought them, and there were so many food manufacturers involved in that whole debacle that I really can't fault any one of them - they honestly thought they were getting the same clean materials they'd been getting for years.

Myka was on Nutro up to January of this year. I know her particular food wasn't part of that tainted recall.

How is the gas/poo situation now? Have you changed anything?

Melissa

Myka is now 50/50 Wellness Core Turkey & Chicken/California Naturals Lamb & Rice. I continue to give her the Eagle enzyme and probiotic additive as well. No change in gas.

I have also noticed that in the last year or so she's really gotten stinky breath. I guess it's time for a dental check up. There goes more money...

pitgrrl
June 18th, 2008, 10:35 AM
I have also noticed that in the last year or so she's really gotten stinky breath. I guess it's time for a dental check up. There goes more money...

In no way am I suggesting not getting a dental check up, always a good thing obviously, but just another possible cause to keep in mind is wonky digestion.

Streets' breath is noticeably less fresh when he's going through a stomach upset.

Myka
June 18th, 2008, 09:28 PM
Yes, I have considered that the two may be linked. Oi! Shoulda left her on the Nutro!!! :wall:

There was one person back in my thread when I started feeding Myka raw that said, "Why fix it if it ain't broke?" I should have listened! :laughing:

rainbow
June 22nd, 2008, 03:29 AM
Shoulda left her on the Nutro!!! :wall:


I wouldn't.....there have been lots of complaints filed with consumer affairs since Nutro was taken over by the Mars Corporation.....


http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/nutro.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2008/04/pet_food_recalls93.html


And, here's some comments from the Itchmo Forum....

http://itchmoforums.com/your-problems-with-pet-food/do-any-forum-readers-personally-have-problems-with-nutro-food-t5071.0.html

Myka
June 22nd, 2008, 02:24 PM
Myka's farts seem to be much better. The stinky breath...not so much. She's still 50/50 on the foods, I may just leave it like that.

Myka
July 7th, 2008, 08:35 PM
UPDATE: Farting is usually minimual now. She seems to have a few days here and there though. I know she's not getting into anything she's not supposed to be. She's almost done the bottle of Probiotic/digestive enzymes, so I'll cross my fingers she doesn't get stinky again!

She still eats a ton! She gets 1 1/4c California Naturals L&R and 1c Wellness Chicken & Turkey... morning AND night! So that's 4 1/2 cups of food...that's A LOT. I'm gonna take some doggie doo doo into the vet and get it tested for worms. Saving money for teeth cleaning too ($$$). Why is teeth cleaning so darn expensive?

Myka
July 15th, 2008, 09:35 PM
Got her poo examined for worms today. No worms. :thumbs up Waiting on the blood panel results.

Guinness' mom
July 25th, 2008, 11:41 AM
LOL...I had to read this one....
I have had 2 Chocolate Labs and both have been "sensitive stomach" dogs...lol...try driving to the cottage for 2.5 hours having to put down the windows many times because they fart in the van:eek::yuck:
All I can say is Guinness had so many problems with foods (as well as being the most fussy Lab I have every seen) I thought they would eat ANYTHING!!
He has also had constant bouts of Diarrhea.
And then we found FIRST CHOICE lamb and rice for large breeds. Well Halleluiah :fingerscr no farts no diarrhea and he has the best coat he has ever had. The shedding was driving me crazy!!!!!!
I mean every dog is different but this dog food rocks in my books...and he loves it!!!! :thumbs up

Myka
July 25th, 2008, 09:07 PM
Myka's digestive system seems to be back up to snuff now. Thanks for the suggestion though! :)