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Lump on Jasper's neck

Love4himies
May 30th, 2008, 10:05 PM
I just found a lump on the scruff of Jasper's neck. It is quite large about an inch in diameter and a quarter inch deep.

I am so upset I can't even think. I will be taking him to the vet tomorrow. I hope it is just a lump from his vaccines he got on Monday.

clm
May 30th, 2008, 10:32 PM
That's probably all that it is. Glad you can get him in to see the vet so fast to be sure.

Cindy

krdahmer
May 30th, 2008, 10:36 PM
Yep good to check it out, but if he got vaccines there that's most likely the cause. Fagan almost always gets a lump when he gets a shot of any kind.... and sometimes they take up to 4 weeks + to go away. :goodvibes: for your appointment with Jasper! :grouphug:

onster
May 31st, 2008, 03:36 AM
Dont worry, im sure its just from the vaccine. Vet will put ure mind to ease :grouphug:

Love4himies
May 31st, 2008, 05:56 AM
Thanks guys. He is my special boy and I would be just devastated if something happened to him.:cry:

onster
May 31st, 2008, 06:43 AM
:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

14+kitties
May 31st, 2008, 07:39 AM
I am sending :goodvibes: and :fingerscr that the lump is from the needles. I will be thinking about Jasper. Good Luck!!! And let us know asap!

hazelrunpack
May 31st, 2008, 08:01 AM
:fingerscr and :goodvibes: for Jasper that it's just a vaccination lump and will go away on its own. We always get them checked out, too. :thumbs up

We've seen so many vaccination lumps on the dogs over the years that we developed a system with the vet. They put certain vaccines in certain places and we always watch them do to--that way we know exactly what has caused the reaction...and if a lump results, we freak out about it less. :rolleyes: We're pretty paranoid...I think the vet was getting tired about our panicky calls! :o :laughing:

:grouphug:

Love4himies
May 31st, 2008, 09:53 AM
Thanks everybody, we are heading off to the vet now.

angeldogs
May 31st, 2008, 09:56 AM
Hoping it's the vaccination that has caused the lump.

Dr Lee
May 31st, 2008, 02:17 PM
Let us know what happens. Good luck

Love4himies
June 2nd, 2008, 01:14 AM
Vet does think it is from the vaccine and wants Jasper brought back in if there is any oozing, he stops eating, or if it doesn't go down in two weeks for a recheck.

It does feel slightly smaller this morning, the lump itself is hard, but it is moveable, like it is attached to the skin, not the muscle tissue.

14+kitties
June 2nd, 2008, 01:19 AM
Vet does think it is from the vaccine and wants Jasper brought back in if there is any oozing, he stops eating, or if it doesn't go down in two weeks for a recheck.

It does feel slightly smaller this morning, the lump itself is hard, but it is moveable, like it is attached to the skin, not the muscle tissue.

I am so relieved that the vet thinks it's from the vaccine! I'm sure you are too! Jasper is a pretty special fella'! :goodvibes:being sent for the lump to be gone soon.

Love4himies
June 2nd, 2008, 01:33 AM
The issue with vaccine lumps is that they can turn cancerous and apparently it can be malignant and aggressive. :sad: I have been so stressed this weekend and Jasper has been so spoiled.:cloud9:

Maybe Dr Lee can give me more info.

chico2
June 2nd, 2008, 01:47 AM
L4H,Hope sweet Jasper is ok:cat:
I did not know before this Forum and Vinnies vaccinelump,that these lumps can become cancerous.
A couple of years back,my old vet started giving the needles in the leg,as does my new vet,for the simple reeason should something develope it's easier to treat in the leg.
In all the years of having cats,it only happened to Vinnie,but it was scary,luckily it eventually went away.

phoozles
June 2nd, 2008, 05:49 AM
Sending you some :goodvibes: that this will go away soon :grouphug:
Those lumps can be so scary! It's definitely good news that the vet thinks it's just from the vaccine - you never know! :grouphug:

ancientgirl
June 2nd, 2008, 06:19 AM
I hope that lump goes away fast. I'd never known about the possibility of those becoming cancerous until I read it here either.

Mine have all had their shots, but next time I'm going to ask the vet to give it to them on their leg too. I don't think it makes a difference in the potency of the vaccine where it's given right?

I think Jaspur needs to be spoiled a little more today.:D

Love4himies
June 2nd, 2008, 06:20 AM
I am never getting my cats vaccinated again, even for rabies, unless I have to travel with them.

ancientgirl
June 2nd, 2008, 02:14 PM
It's very scary. You want to protect them, and make sure they are safe from any diseases, but then the cure could be potentially harmful too. :sad:

Is he better? Is the lump smaller?

hazelrunpack
June 2nd, 2008, 04:03 PM
Be careful how often you check the lump, L4H. hazel learned the hard way that if you check it frequently (even once a day) it can get bigger just because it's irritated. :o hazel has since learned to check lumps once a week. :D It's also easier to detect a change if you check it less frequently.

kathryn
June 2nd, 2008, 04:16 PM
I am never getting my cats vaccinated again, even for rabies, unless I have to travel with them.


You sound like those parents who won't vaccinate their kids because they say OMG MY KID IS AUTISTIC IT MUST BECAUSE OF THEIR VACCINES!

Seriously, chill out. It's all good. The same thing happened to my cat ages ago. It's NOT bad, it's just swelling because your cat probably moved a little and that's all.

You can put a .. warm cloth on it. I think it was a warm cloth. Could be a cool cloth. I forget. Whichever one it is that you would put on yourself if you hit a body part and it got swollen.

Rabies vaccines and distemper are 100% needed. Your cat is more likely to go out and catch something or get bitten by something then too MAYBE develop cancer from a vaccine.

If your cat gets bitten by a rabid raccoon because she/he slipped out one night, they WILL die. Vaccines aren't really even proven to cause harm.

Plus, not vaccinating your cat for rabies is illegal depending on where you live.

Spread out the vaccines more though. Heard that's better for them and doesn't really do anything to the effectiveness. Do a 1 year shot every 15 months or so and that will cover them.

If anyone has any contradicting evidence to what I've said, feel free to present it. But seriously, vaccinate your kids & pets for the BASIC stuff.

sugarcatmom
June 2nd, 2008, 05:10 PM
Rabies vaccines and distemper are 100% needed. Your cat is more likely to go out and catch something or get bitten by something then too MAYBE develop cancer from a vaccine.


Perhaps the original vaccines are useful, but I completely disagree that annual boosters are necessary, and even the veterinary community is starting to change their tune. The latest protocol is every 3 years: http://www.cfa.org/articles/health/vaccination-guidelines.html#protocol but many argue that even that is too much. And it's about more than just the possibility of developing sarcomas. There's even a term, vaccinosis, which refers to adverse reactions due to overvaccination, everything from auto-immune disorders to chronic renal failure. Personally, I will never vaccinate beyond kitten/puppyhood again.

Some links, if you're interested:
http://www.ebvet.com/article7.php
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=vaccination
http://www.vaclib.org/legal/PetsDying.htm
http://www.blakkatz.com/vaccination.html
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm

Dr Lee
June 2nd, 2008, 06:44 PM
The issue with vaccine lumps is that they can turn cancerous and apparently it can be malignant and aggressive. :sad: I have been so stressed this weekend and Jasper has been so spoiled.:cloud9:Maybe Dr Lee can give me more info.

Thanks Love4himies!

There has been a link established between cancer (VAS - vaccine associated sarcoma) and some vaccines in cats. (there is new evidence that to a lesser extent this is occurring in dogs as well). I think somewhere I did a long description of this here. In short, the adjuvants appear to be causing the cancer by means of prolonged and marked local inflammation.

Merial has developed vaccines (basic 4in1, feline leukemia and rabies) which are non-adjuvanted and to date, have not had known one case of cancer induced from them. During the research the feline leukemia vaccine, which has the highest rate of causing this tumor, was still causing tissue inflammation even after it was made as recombinant so they took a needless injector which was developed by the military. It injects the vaccine through a concentrated puff of air. By spreading the vaccine out, the tissue inflammation has been reduced and it is considered at this time to have no link with vaccine induced cancer. This is the only type of vaccines that should be used in cats. If your cat has been vaccinated for feline leukemia with a Merial recombinant vaccine you will know it because of the special VetJet injector that is used. It is a teal and white 7-8 inch device which emits a large popping sound.Also as cats age, they become naturally resistant to FeLV anyways. However for all other vaccines, Merial's non-adjuvanted vaccines in my opinion are the only way to go.

There was a question on this in our VIN (Veterinary Information Network). Here is an answer by Dr Alice Wolf who is one of the most knowledgeable veterinarians I know. Here is her answer to a question on this:



">>> Is there any new evidence regarding non-adjuvanted vaccines in cats and whether they are really less likely to cause reactions <<<

The major issue is the post-vaccinal inflammation that occurs with adjuvanted vs non-adjuvanted vaccines and the induction of malignant transformation that can lead to vaccine-associated sarcomas.

Here is an abstract of a recent study demonstrating the reduced local reactivity of non-adjuvanted vaccine:
Vaccine. 2007 May 16;25(20):4073-84. Epub 2007 Mar 7. Links
A kinetic study of histopathological changes in the subcutis of cats injected with non-adjuvanted and adjuvanted multi-component vaccines.Day MJ, Schoon HA, Magnol JP, Saik J, Devauchelle P, Truyen U, Gruffydd-Jones TJ, Cozette V, Jas D, Poulet H, Pollmeier M, Thibault JC.

School of Clinical Veterinary Science, University of Bristol, Langford, BS40 5DU, United Kingdom. m.j.day@bristol.ac.uk

The aim of this study was to investigate the subcutaneous tissue response to administration of a single dose of multi-component vaccine in the cat. Three groups of 15 cats were injected with one of three vaccine products with saline as a negative control. Cats in group A received non-adjuvanted vaccine; cats in group B received vaccine with a lipid-based adjuvant; whilst those in group C were vaccinated with a product adjuvanted with an alum-Quil A mixture. The vaccine and saline injection sites were sampled on days 7, 21 and 62 post-vaccination. Biopsies of these vaccine sites were examined qualitatively and scored semi-quantitatively for a series of parameters related to aspects of the inflammatory and tissue repair responses. These data were analysed statistically, including by principal component analysis. At all three time points of the experiment, there was significantly less inflammation associated with administration of non-adjuvanted vaccine (p=0.000). Although there was evidence of tissue repair by day 62 in all groups, those cats receiving adjuvanted vaccines had evidence of residual adjuvant material accumulated within macrophages at this late time point. The severity of tissue reactions may vary significantly in response to vaccines which include adjuvants or are non-adjuvanted.

>>> I am reevaluating our protocols and considering going back to using 3 yr feline rabies. <<<

On the basis of this information, I hope that you will continue to use only non-adjuvanted products in cats.

Alice"

-Alice M. Wolf, DVM, DACVIM, DABVP

rainbow
June 2nd, 2008, 07:05 PM
Dr. Lee, thank you for posting that excellent information. :thumbs up

Love4himies, how is Uncle Jasper today? :fingerscr :goodvibes:

growler~GateKeeper
June 3rd, 2008, 12:53 AM
Here is some more updated vaccine related info including where to inject the vaccine

http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/vmth/clientinfo/info/genmed/vaccinproto.html

Yes L4H How is Uncle Jasper? :goodvibes:
Hard sometimes :rolleyes: I know, but remember to not irritate (check) the lump too much

Love4himies
June 3rd, 2008, 06:41 AM
:yell: I check it every 5 minutes, sorry Hazel, I can't stop :yell:. I was thinking of discussing with my vet to get the lump removed if it is still there after week 4. I will not take any chances of this turning into cancer. He is my bud and worth every penny to have it removed:

http://www.cvm.uiuc.edu/petcolumns/index.cfm?function=showarticle&id=155


Thank you Dr. Lee. Would you agree that it should be removed after 4 weeks?

katherine93
June 3rd, 2008, 10:06 AM
I dont know about dr. Lee, But i certainly agree with getting it removed! What if something happens if youd ont! :eek: Not omly would you feel super bad for not removing the lump, but he would be in alot of pain! I know thats not very comforting what i just said, sorry.

chico2
June 3rd, 2008, 10:14 AM
L4H,I would not rush to put Jasper through surgery:sad:it's strange,but when Vinnie had his,it was probably more than 1 inch long and 1/2 inch wide,my old vet never even talked about remvoving it.
It was gone after a while,probably a couple of weeks,hope pretty Jaspers will be too:fingerscr:goodvibes:

Love4himies
June 3rd, 2008, 11:03 AM
L4H,I would not rush to put Jasper through surgery:sad:it's strange,but when Vinnie had his,it was probably more than 1 inch long and 1/2 inch wide,my old vet never even talked about remvoving it.
It was gone after a while,probably a couple of weeks,hope pretty Jaspers will be too:fingerscr:goodvibes:


Chico, I can't think of anything but this lump turning to cancer, it has consumed me. Everything I read on the internet tells me this can easily turn to cancer and such an aggressive cancer that can't be treated.

My sister died from a prescription med that was a 1 in a million chance of doing so the doctor didn't do blood work first to see if she was at risk. :cry:

My mom almost died from a routine angiogram, doctor cut a vein pulling it out and nobody check for internal bleeding before releasing her. She almost died of massive blood loss.:sad:

Snowball, my soulmate kitty died just a month after moving into a house we built on a lot that would have been his paradise and he never got to enjoy it! Vet prescribed Baytril when his kidneys were failing and he never ate after the second dose.:sad::cry: developed cancer in his sinuses.

ancientgirl
June 3rd, 2008, 11:23 AM
I understand your worry. I'd be going crazy myself. Have you been able to talk to the vet about it today? Does is seem to have changed in size since Friday?

Love4himies
June 3rd, 2008, 11:30 AM
I understand your worry. I'd be going crazy myself. Have you been able to talk to the vet about it today? Does is seem to have changed in size since Friday?

No talked to him on Saturday, if it is not gone in two weeks or significantly smaller (making it 3 weeks after the vaccine), I will call him back in two weeks and discuss further treatments, biopsy/removal in week 4.

DH and I think it may be a little smaller. :fingerscr I checked it about three times last night.

ancientgirl
June 3rd, 2008, 11:37 AM
:fingerscr:goodvibes::pray: It'll be smaller tomorrow, I just know it will.

Love4himies
June 3rd, 2008, 11:39 AM
:fingerscr:goodvibes::pray: It'll be smaller tomorrow, I just know it will.

Thanks, ancientgirl.

14+kitties
June 3rd, 2008, 12:47 PM
L4H How is Jasper today? I hope the lump is smaller. :fingerscr It's tough to "be patient and wait" when you know the possible outcome.
I am going through the same thing (sort of) with TT. He seems to be breathing faster today with a slight wheeze. The vet's office told me to watch him for 24 hrs before I make an appointment and that I am probably watching him too closely. They are probably right. I check him every chance I get. Not getting any work done at all. :rolleyes: But they are like our kids. It's hard to NOT worry!
Sending those :goodvibes: along for good measure!

Love4himies
June 3rd, 2008, 01:33 PM
I haven't checked it yet today, I get up, shower, feed the cats and go to work. When I get home I'll do a quick check.

Dr Lee
June 3rd, 2008, 01:58 PM
I just had a client come in today and we discussed vaccine associated sarcoma or vaccine associated fibrosarcoma disease as her cat has a large vaccine lump post vaccine with an adjuvanted cat vacccine (not from my hospital). As I was talking to her, I remembered I forgot to post this before. The tumor growth is typically months to years after the vaccine. Cats that develop a lump after vaccine will not form a cancer immediately but are thought to be at higher risk than those that do not because we know that they had a large amount of local inflammation at the site of vaccination. :pawprint:

chico2
June 3rd, 2008, 04:10 PM
OMG,L4H you certainly have reasons not to leave anything to chance:sad:
If you feel that strongly about it,do whatever you feel you need to do.
I never worried much about Vinnies lump,I did not know it could become cancerous and it did go away,thank dog.
I never ever had that happen with any of my cats,past or present.
So,rather than worrying yourself crazy,do what your love for Jasper tells you to do,ok:cat:

angeldogs
June 3rd, 2008, 09:02 PM
If your that worried i would go to the vet.talk to them and if they say it's nothing to worry about at all.then you can get the peace of mind thats it's nothing and no need to worry.

BusterKitty
June 3rd, 2008, 09:26 PM
OMGosh, I hope Jasper's gonna be alright! We're all sending good vibes!

About what Kathryn said with those compresses. Cold compress to prevent swelling and warm compress to reduce swelling.

growler~GateKeeper
June 3rd, 2008, 10:50 PM
I checked it about three times last night.

No more fiddling with it! Remind yourself you are only allowed to check it once every 4 days cuz growler said so. :p My :rip: :dog: Cally had a fibrosacroma growing on his flank - not vaccine related - & definately grew more when it was checked :o When I had it removed they biopsied it and it was not cancerous but still kept growing until it was fully removed. So leave it alone :p

Love4himies
June 4th, 2008, 07:02 AM
Jasper has started scratching at it:yell:. I haven't checked it, I have been good :D. Should I get an E collar for him?

ancientgirl
June 4th, 2008, 07:38 AM
Oy, if he's messing with it maybe you should get a collar on him. Are you sure it's from the shot? Could it be a bug bite?

Love4himies
June 4th, 2008, 07:45 AM
When the vet checked it, he was pretty sure it is a vaccine lump, not a bite.

ancientgirl
June 4th, 2008, 08:09 AM
I think then maybe a collar to keep him from scratching it. At least until you can see it's gone down.

Love4himies
June 5th, 2008, 07:57 AM
THE LUMP IS SMALLER AND JELLY LIKE!!! It is no longer a hard mass and is about have the size:D

http://easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-happy-smileys-302.gif (http://easyfreesmileys.com/)

ancientgirl
June 5th, 2008, 08:16 AM
:party::clap:

That's the best news I've heard this week!

chico2
June 5th, 2008, 03:49 PM
L4H,that's great news,it sounds the same as Vinnies was,no more worrying ok,beautiful Jasper will be fine:cat:

14+kitties
June 5th, 2008, 04:02 PM
http://bestsmileys.com/fireworks/7.gif Yay!!!!!!!! Good news!!!! :grouphug: for you and Jasper!!!!

angeldogs
June 5th, 2008, 09:45 PM
That is great news that it is smaller and soft.:thumbs up it should be gone soon enough.

growler~GateKeeper
June 5th, 2008, 10:15 PM
:thumbs up great news :highfive:

now you are NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH IT for the next 4 days! :D

hazelrunpack
June 5th, 2008, 11:52 PM
:thumbs up great news :highfive:

now you are NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH IT for the next 4 days! :D

8, if you can manage it! :laughing:

WooooHoooooo! for Jasper!

Love4himies
June 6th, 2008, 07:35 AM
:thumbs up great news :highfive:

now you are NOT ALLOWED TO TOUCH IT for the next 4 days! :D

:eek::yell: I caaaaaaaaan't. OK I will :D Now I have Puddles to worry about.:frustrated:

chico2
June 6th, 2008, 07:38 AM
L4H,what's wrong with Puddles??

Love4himies
June 6th, 2008, 07:51 AM
L4H,what's wrong with Puddles??


She was making a horrible coughing/retching noise for hours last night. Almost like a furball wanting to come out, but somewhat different.

I have a video of it.


http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=53005

onster
June 20th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Yesterday night when I was cuddling with Bunduk I thought I felt a lump on his side but hes just so squrimy and floofy its hard to tell sometimes.

Now I looked for it and he definately has a hard ping pong ball sized mass on his hind leg where he got the vaccine back on June 5th. The vet warned me he might get a lump in the site after and Bunduk squirmed like mad when he did get the needle so I had anticipated bruising but could feel nothing for the few days after (or I overlooked it, I dunno :sad:).

L4H how long after the vaccine did Jasper's lump go down? Did it form immediately after??

I thought maybe it was abcess and Onnie and Bundu finally roughhoused it enough to hurt eachother but its not warm to the touch nor do I feel a scab. Ill have to call the vets tomorrow...I feel so horrible for not noticing this earlier..it seems like a very long time for him to still have it after the vaccines June 5?? ahhhh..freaking out.

onster
June 20th, 2008, 05:48 PM
looking at the timeline of ure post seems it only took 5-6 days to go away/become jelly like.

It has been 15 days since their vaccines. Not good, this is not good at all :cry: :cry2:

ancientgirl
June 20th, 2008, 05:55 PM
Aww Onster. I hope it's nothing bad!:fingerscr

onster
June 20th, 2008, 05:57 PM
Thanks ancient :grouphug:

part me of thinks to not be silly and im sure its nothing :o the other part of me says its a big hard lump on ure baby, freak out :yell:

ancientgirl
June 20th, 2008, 06:06 PM
It's understandable the way you feel. But a trip to the vet is a good idea just to make sure.

onster
June 20th, 2008, 06:09 PM
yeah, normally I would give something like that time to see if it would go down but with my travelling next month and also that Im not sure when it popped up it would be best to see the vet :fingerscr

ancientgirl
June 20th, 2008, 06:27 PM
Be sure to let us know what happens.:grouphug:

onster
June 20th, 2008, 06:35 PM
will do for sure:grouphug:

angeldogs
June 20th, 2008, 08:42 PM
I do hope it's nothing at all.

onster
June 20th, 2008, 08:58 PM
Thanks angeldogs.

k so im a worry wart and started to google it and eased my mind a little. From
http://www.2ndchance.info/fibrosarcoma.htm I found:

Do remember that approximately 99.98 percent of cats do not develop post-vaccination tumors. However, in a very small percentage of cats, a post-vaccination inflammation develops under the skin. These reactions are abscess caused by irritation and inflammation due to vaccine components. The reactions occur 7 – 12 days after a vaccine is given, and feel like small, firm lumps under the skin. They are not painful and last a week or two. They usually subside without any lasting effect.

of course Bunduk and Jasper have to be not part of the 99.98% :frustrated:. But the 7-12 days (more on the 12 side) does make sense with the timeline of Bunduk's lump. I first felt it yesterday which would be 14 days. Its also not painful to Bunduk as far as I can tell.

Also from there:

What to Do If You Find A Lump on Your Cat:
First of all, remember that almost all vaccine reactions disappear over time and do not cause cancer. I have been practicing for over 35 years and have not seen a single case of fibrosarcoma in my patients. If you notice a small lump at the site of vaccination that persists more than a week call the veterinarian who administered the vaccinations and have him or her re-examine the cat. Most veterinarians are more than happy to do this. Generally, their advice will be to wait a few weeks more for the swelling to go away. If it turns out to be an abscess the veterinarian may drain it and place the cat on antibiotics.

onster
June 20th, 2008, 09:01 PM
This backs up a lot of what our amazing Dr. Lee has been saying but I thought I'd post for others that are starting to freak out about vaccines like I am.

Things You And Your Veterinarian Can Do:

1) Use only non-adjuvented vaccines in your cats. Adjuvented vaccines give us longer terms of immunity but they also cause considerably more local tissue inflammation than non-adjuvented vaccines. Vaccine manufacturers are quickly shifting to vaccines that do not contain irritating enhancing chemicals. These new vaccines will be less likely to cause tumors.fibrosarcoma cat
.
2) Request that your veterinarian use 25 gauge needles when administering vaccines to your cat. Small hypodermic needles are less likely to carry irritating hair and debris under the skin.

3) Request that your veterinarian massage the area where the vaccine was administered. Massage spreads out the antigen (vaccine) lessening inflammation.

4) A somewhat gruesome suggestion that has been made by some academicians is that the vaccination be administered in a leg. The theory is that if a tumor should develop the leg could be amputated saving the cats life.

5) Avoid over vaccinating your pet. There is scientific evidence that panleukopenia and feline leukemia vaccinations last for at least three years, probably more. Yearly vaccination for these diseases is not necessary annually. Since yearly rabies vaccination is required by State law, be sure a non-adjuvented rabies vaccine is used.

6) Be sure your veterinarian keeps accurate records of the brand of vaccine used and the site where it was given. Although this may not help your pet, it will help us to determine which brands of vaccine may be causing problems. To identify the vaccine used, it is now recommend that the feline panleukopenia-calicivirus-chlamydia-rhinotracheitis vaccination be given on the right shoulder. Rabies vaccination should be given on the right rear leg as far down the leg as possible. Feline leukemia vaccination should be given on the same spot on the left rear leg

7) All cats should receive at least one feline leukemia virus test. This retroviral testing will ensure that the feline leukemia viruses not acting as a helper virus for the production of a feline sarcoma.

14+kitties
June 20th, 2008, 09:01 PM
Onster, I would be doing the same thing with any one of my guys! You are entitled. :grouphug:

L4H, I am assuming that Jasper's lump is completely gone now?

onster
June 20th, 2008, 09:09 PM
Thanks 14+kitties :grouphug:

My cat Ty I had before Onnie and Bunduk never got an upper respiratory/mites/anal gland issues/post vaccine freakouts/diarrhea/ vaccine lumps (tho he got more vaccines than Onnie and Bunduk since he was indoor outdoor)

With my 2 now Ive dealt with all of the above and Ive only had Bunduk for a little over a year and Onnie less than 2. Ty I had for 7....:shrug:


ETA: lol nevermind I just rememberd Ty had his fair share. How quickly we forget...he had fleas numerous times, tapeworm twice and a urine infection.

I cant believe im threadjacking my own theadjack of L4H's thread. :crazy::sorry:

onster
June 21st, 2008, 09:05 AM
We have an appointment in half an hour. Vet says he doesnt think it would be a vaccine lump as these usually show 24-48 hours after the vaccine.

onster
June 21st, 2008, 10:42 AM
Ok he thought it was too high up for a vaccine lump (this lump is around his lower ribs not in the flank where he gives the needle) so he took an aspiration and then said it wasnt an abscess and there were no tumour cells/ sign of infection.

He said it could still be a vaccine lump as Bunduk was squirming when he got the needle and if it gets bigger well have to address it (ie have surgery to remove it) . He said it could take 2 months to go down if its a vaccine lump.

Also Bunduk and Onnie are one a 3 yr vaccine plan so I dont have to go through this for another 3 yrs, thank God.

ancientgirl
June 21st, 2008, 10:50 AM
Well the good thing is there were no tumor cells so that's a huge relief. Now you'll just have to be monitoring it. But you leave soon no?

onster
June 21st, 2008, 10:55 AM
Ya I was freaking out for either of the two probs- an abscess (aka onnie and Bunduk cant be boarded together cuz theyre hurting ea other) or my worst fear, a tumor...

he said the fine aspiration is not a 100% indication that it is not tumerous however he did say it was not a fatty lump. So that leaves it being either a weirdly located vaccine lump (I think cuz he did squirm- vet doesnt remember) or some sort of tumour (may be malignant).

I can monitor until July 8 but after that Ill have to leave it to the good people at catnap cottages in Guelph. My vet said he will keep in touch with them also regarding that. If it doesnt increase in size by the time I leave though he said its likely it wont increase in size and it will just go down eventually.

He didnt charge me for the aspiration either :thumbs up. He did say that he had a cat just come in yesterday that he had given the vaccine a month ago and she developed an abscess :eek: When he stuck the needle in to do the aspiration all this puss came out :yuck: and another cat that has a lump like Bunduk. He said its very rare and he was surprised with these 3 cases in a row but he says he probably wont get anymore for a long time.

ancientgirl
June 21st, 2008, 11:55 AM
Well certainly keep us informed. I'm sure it will go away soon.:thumbs up

Love4himies
June 21st, 2008, 12:46 PM
Oh no Onster. I just logged on.

I noticed the lump on Friday, 5 days after his vaccine. It took a week after that to pretty much disappear. So about 2 weeks all together. He lump was quite large almost 2 inches in diameter.

:fingerscr:pray::goodvibes: for Bunduk! :grouphug: to you, I know how you feel!

onster
June 24th, 2008, 09:08 AM
thanks love4himmies :grouphug:

I'm glad jasper's is completely gone.

Bunduk's is doing weird things. Its about the size of a large olive and hard like that. After the vet aspirated it for a sample it seemed like it was spread out so it was larger in area covered but smaller in height but then the next day it was bigger again and larger than before (the vet did say there was some water under the skin but that was normal).

Now it is remaining constant as the size of an olive. At least its not getting bigger :) *please please go away*

Love4himies
June 24th, 2008, 09:15 AM
I don't think Jasper's lump was exactly where the needle went in either, It was more to the side of the neck. Of course as you stated, with the squirming, vets can't be exactly sure where the needle went in.

Keeping Bunduk in my prayers!

onster
June 24th, 2008, 05:03 PM
Thanks L4H, Ill definately update here if the lump changes :grouphug:

growler~GateKeeper
June 25th, 2008, 12:25 AM
:goodvibes: :fingerscr for Bunduk's lump to go away completely & soon :grouphug:

onster
June 26th, 2008, 09:38 AM
*sigh*

Bunduk's lump is twice the size as of today. Yesterday it was still a hard olive now its twice the size with a hard centre (olive sized) but the rest is not so hard :shrug:

onster
June 26th, 2008, 09:44 AM
oh no I checked again and its not soft its hard all the way :cry:

this lump is so weird it keeps changing.

I can tell its there without even feeling it anymore because the fur is raised above it.

ancientgirl
June 26th, 2008, 09:48 AM
Oh no. Have you called the vet? Did he give you some time period as to when it might start going down?

onster
June 26th, 2008, 09:50 AM
no I didnt call the vet, he said we have to see after 2 months at which point it should be gone.

He did say though that if it keeps getting bigger/doesnt go down after 2 months we will have to get it removed.

Its a waiting game.

ancientgirl
June 26th, 2008, 10:04 AM
That stinks! Not to worry you, but what if it's something bad? Won't waiting that long make it worse?

onster
June 26th, 2008, 10:06 AM
yes I worried about that. Vet said that theres no point putting him through surgery with his respiratory problems (Bunduk has damage to his airway) when it might just be a vaccine lump isnt very wise. He didnt seem concerned but of course Im very worried.

If it gets any biggger I dont know what Ill do? Just put him through the surgery? I dont know.

Love4himies
June 26th, 2008, 10:07 AM
Call the vet, ask for a biopsy! PM Dr Lee too!

Love4himies
June 26th, 2008, 10:08 AM
I wonder if they can do a local freezing to do a biopsy for him rather than full anesthetic. It is just under the skin, not like it is an organ.

ancientgirl
June 26th, 2008, 10:10 AM
Call the vet, ask for a biopsy! PM Dr Lee too!

Yeah, a biopsy wouldn't hurt. They don't have to put him under for that right? I'd think it's like when they do it to us, use a local. I just hate the thought of waiting that long and have it be something bad that could have been taken care of early on.

hazelrunpack
June 26th, 2008, 09:38 PM
I'm sorry it got bigger, onster. :sad: I know how worrisome that is! :grouphug:

onster
June 26th, 2008, 09:53 PM
:grouphug: thanks guys.. Im trying not to worry.

I called the vet and he said as long its not much bigger than one inch ( the hard part) theres no need to do anything - standard procedure is to wait for 3 months after.

I found this online:

lumps commonly form in the weeks following vaccination due to the immune stimulation and inflammation centered on this area. These lumps are usually normal and do not represent fibrosarcomas, which generally take years to develop, not weeks. If your cat develops one of these lumps under the skin (they are usually noticed by owners 3-4 weeks after vaccination), the lump may be left alone to resolve naturally. If the lump is still present 3 months from the time of vaccination, it should be removed and biopsied. Any lumps greater than 2 cm in diameter (approximately 1 inch) should be removed no matter how long a time has passed since vaccination. Also, any lump should be removed if it is felt to be getting larger rather than smaller one month after its discovery.

Sometimes one such lump will break open. This usually means an infection is present and must be treated rather than that a fibrosarcoma has developed. Your veterinarian should be informed of this occurrence and the pet should return for therapy.

from http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=526

It reiterates what the vet already told me, so I guess it makes me feel better. Also although it did get better it hasnt been a month since the vaccination so were not in that time yet...also I did notice it later so the 3-4 weeks later is comforting.

growler~GateKeeper
June 27th, 2008, 12:13 AM
Onster :grouphug: for you & Bunduk

Now I will tell you the same thing I told L4H........Don't touch it, leave it alone, no checking it for one week. :D Often when you handle a lump often, it will increase in size because it is being "irritated" by being moved & prodded. :shrug:

:goodvibes:

chico2
June 27th, 2008, 06:21 AM
Aww Bunduk,you are nothing but a furball of trouble,if you are not running away,you're jumping up 2 meters +a whole bunch of other things and now this stupid lump to worry mom more(not your doing though,for once):pray:it will be gone soon,just like Vinnies:goodvibes:

Love4himies
June 27th, 2008, 06:27 AM
Growler is right, don't touch it, once I stopped it diminished at a much quicker rate.

onster
June 27th, 2008, 07:51 AM
Thanks guys , we will try not to touch it. I told my mom we can't touch it until Monday.

My mom is so upset :o She keeps cuddling bunduk (lol well he always got that) asking him to get better and for his "bad lump" to go away, drowning him in kisses. She's also letting him into the forbidden dining room (too many wires) and guest area usually closed off by the french doors. Bunduk of course is giving us his "huh" typical face and milking it, lol :rolleyes:

onster
July 21st, 2008, 03:25 AM
I have really good news and slightly bad news.

Good news is his lump is gone according to Anita - hurrah!!!! :D:party: (thanks everyone for your support :grouphug:)

The bad news is now hes having upper resp trouble :sad:

Love4himies
July 21st, 2008, 06:03 AM
Awww poor Bunduk :grouphug: Getting upper resp infections is pretty common in these settings and can be cured easily. Bet he is breaking a lot of hearts there :cloud9::lovestruck:

Great to hear about his lump :highfive::thumbs up

ancientgirl
July 21st, 2008, 07:43 AM
I'm glad his lump has gone down. I think as long as he's being taken care of, that upper respiratory thing can be treated easily, like L4H said.

onster
July 21st, 2008, 08:13 AM
Thanks guys, for sure its great news..i was really worried for awhile.

As for his upper resp Im used to it but he doesnt usually cough..more sneezing. I updated in the ontopic "dropped them off" thread :thumbs up

growler~GateKeeper
July 21st, 2008, 11:54 PM
great news the lump is gone Onster :thumbs up