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Beet pulp question and food question

Dr Lee
May 5th, 2008, 05:45 PM
I talked to a client today who told me about the events of her little 7 month old dog who underwent an episode of severe vomiting, almost died, was hospitalized, had surgery with biopsies. Long story short a definitive diagnosis was not established but food intolerance is suspected due to the history and fact that the pet returns with symptoms if it eats the original food it was one. the owner told me about the fact that beet pulp is currently highly controversial.

So my questions are:

1) Beet pulp, the partially fermentable fiber is in many dog foods and labeled as a overall positive food ingredient with most associated problems attributed more to horses than dogs. True? False? Feelings on beet pulp? What is the controversy?

2) Is any one familiar with Earthblend. Does anyone have time to look at it and see if they like it? It is touted as having a lot of holistic additives. The website is www.earthblenddogfood.com

Thank you all for your time.

want4rain
May 5th, 2008, 08:15 PM
1) Beet pulp, the partially fermentable fiber is in many dog foods and labeled as a overall positive food ingredient with most associated problems attributed more to horses than dogs. True? False? Feelings on beet pulp? What is the controversy?

im not sure. considering im 'net educated' and i feed homemade... im not too terribly concerned about it. seems to me like its quite convenient to put in dog foods?? but that perhaps unless an allergy or intolerance is involved that it shouldnt nix an otherwise great food?? sorry im not much help there.

2) Is any one familiar with Earthblend. Does anyone have time to look at it and see if they like it? It is touted as having a lot of holistic additives. The website is www.earthblenddogfood.com

Thank you all for your time.

Earthblend isnt very clear as to what their ingredients are. i even tried googling them to get a list of all ingredients but couldnt find it listed. i imagine its just fine though, with what information they do give.

"Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Millet, Barley, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols a Natural Source of Vitamin E), Fish Meal"

looks fantastic. we routinely feed all but the barley to Mister. off the grocery store shelf that is. :) and the only reason we skip barley is because its not at the store and we have alternatives.

i hope a few folks with more than my anecdotal experience comes along to say more!

-ashley

shane 123
May 5th, 2008, 09:22 PM
As far as beet pulp causing allergies I wouldn't think so. I had horses and one was a hard keeper and needed the beet pulp. My dogs always came to the barn with me while I got the horse's fed. I would put the buckets on the floor to measure out what each horse was eatring and when the beet pulp hit the bucket the dogs could't get enough of it. They would knock the lid off the container and dig in. Not one of them ever had allergies or complications with it.I fed raw so maybe that made a difference? Most dogs that have access to it love it and not all are raw feeders though.

As for the dog food, I don't like millet or barley for dogs. Millet is known to be a cause of allergies and barley gives many humans allergies. But being a raw feeder I can't really express an idea on the quality of the food. If I fed kibble I wouldn't feed it because of the millet.

rainbow
May 5th, 2008, 11:37 PM
I talked to a client today who told me about the events of her little 7 month old dog who underwent an episode of severe vomiting, almost died, was hospitalized, had surgery with biopsies. Long story short a definitive diagnosis was not established but food intolerance is suspected due to the history and fact that the pet returns with symptoms if it eats the original food it was one. the owner told me about the fact that beet pulp is currently highly controversial.

So my questions are:

1) Beet pulp, the partially fermentable fiber is in many dog foods and labeled as a overall positive food ingredient with most associated problems attributed more to horses than dogs. True? False? Feelings on beet pulp? What is the controversy?

2) Is any one familiar with Earthblend. Does anyone have time to look at it and see if they like it? It is touted as having a lot of holistic additives. The website is www.earthblenddogfood.com

Thank you all for your time.

I don't have a problem with beet pulp as an ingredient.

I have not heard of Earthblend but they do not list all their ingredients....

Earthblend Super Premium Dog Food™ Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Millet, Barley, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols a Natural Source of Vitamin E), Fish Meal...

The fish meal should state what type of fish. Also, most fish meal is preserved with ethoxyquin before it is purchased by the pet food company. They do not have to include ethoxyquin in their ingredient list as they did not add it.

I would also like to see the vitamin list to see what form of Vitamin K is used. Vitamin K1 is fine but Vitamin K3 (menadione sodium bisulfite complex) is not.

The brands they compare themselves to are far from premium imo ....

http://www.earthblenddogfood.com/compare.html

There are better foods out there like Orijen/Acana (www.championpetfoods.com), Innova/EVO/Californai Natural (www.naturapet.com), Wellness/CORE (www.omhpet.com), Nature's Variety (www.naturesvariety.com), Go Natural (www.petcurean.com).

What brand of food was the dog on? How many brands has it been on? What is it being fed now?

DoodleMan
May 6th, 2008, 09:10 AM
In my research, beet pulp is a stool hardener that has no beneficial purpose in dogs. It does make their stool firm and gives it volume, but there is no reason a food should include it other than for asthetic purposes of the dog's stool. That being said, it is not the worst of ingredients, but I would not feed my dogs food with beet pulp as this is not a natural element of a dog's diet. I also do not feed my dogs cereal grains as these are not a natural part of a dog's diet. Dogs are carnivores and in the wild, a dog would eat its prey along with the stomach contents of the prey. That would usually include grasses, fruits, and other vegetables/botanicals. I would recommend feeding a kibble most closely related to a dog's natural diet. I personally feed Orijen (http://championpetfoods.com/orijen/about/) In my opinion, this is the most closely related kibble to a dog's natural diet.

This is a quote from www.dogfoodanalysis.com, "Beet pulp is controversial filler. It is a by-product, being dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. It is a controversial ingredient in dog food, claimed by some manufacturers to be a good source of fibre, and derided by others as an ingredient added to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats and causing stress to kidney and liver in the process. We note that beet pulp is an ingredient that commonly causes problems for dogs, including allergies and ear infections, and prefer not to see it used in dog food. There are less controversial products around if additional fibre is required."

In regards to Earthblend, I disagree with a previous poster that Millet is a bad ingredient. Millet is gluten free and is high in protein. If one would like to continue to feed grains to their dog, I would recommend a dog food with millet or quinoa as the grain. These are well tolerated grains by animals as well as humans (personal experience). Quote from wikipedia, "The protein content in millet is very close to that of wheat; both provide about 11% protein by weight. Millets are rich in B vitamins, especially niacin, B17, B6 and folic acid, calcium, iron, potassium, magnesium, and zinc. Millets contain no gluten, so they are not suitable for raised bread. When combined with wheat or xanthan gum (for those who have coeliac disease), though, they can be used for raised bread. Alone, they are suited for flatbread. As none of the millets are closely related to wheat, they are appropriate foods for those with coeliac disease or other forms of allergies/intolerance of wheat. However, millets are also a mild thyroid peroxidase inhibitor and probably should not be consumed in great quantities by those with thyroid disease." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millet)

Barley is a lot better than wheat in a dog food, but barley is not gluten free. Gluten is a protein in wheat, oats, rye and barley which is a common allergen. I stay away from all of these grains in the treats I give to my dogs because I was told when I rescued one of my dogs that he was allergic to wheat. Since I wasnt sure if it was wheat or wheat gluten, I figured I would stay away from gluten as that is usually the trigger of a wheat allergy.

My neighbor feeds Earthblend and they love it. As a side note, they purchased their dogs from a dog store that would only continue to warranty the dogs as long as they keep them on Earthblend. Since Earthblend is made locally, I believe this store may have some connection to the brand (In my opinion). Earthblend seems to include a good list of probiotics as well as digestive enzymes which I give to my dogs. Earthblend seems to be better than most supermarket brands in my opinion, but I also believe there are better foods out there. I am including a list of ingredients of Earthblend from www.dogfoodanalysis.com as well as their review
"Ingredient Listing
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Millet, Barley, Chicken Fat (Source of Omega 6 Fatty Acid), Beet Pulp Fiber, Dried Kelp, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Flax Seed Oil (Source of Omega 6 Fatty Acid), Fennel Seed, Parsely, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Product, Garlic, Barley Grass, Thyme, Burdock Root, Red Clover, Thiamine (Source of Vitamin B1), Di-Calcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin A Supplement, D-Activated Animal Sterol (Source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin E Supplement, D1-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Vitamin E Supplement, D-Biotin (Source of Vitamin B), Riboflavin Supplement (Source of Vitamin B2 & Vitamin G0, Niacin (Source of Vitamin B3), Calcium Pantothenate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Source of Vitamin B6), Choline Chloride (Source of Iron), Calcium Iodate, Iodine, Spirulina, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Natural Flavors Added.


Guaranteed Analysis
Crude protein, minimum 24.0%
Crude Fat, minimum 14.0%
Crude Fiber, maximum 4.0%
Moisture, maximum 10.0%"

"Pros: First and second ingredients are named meat products
Cons: Mixed quality ingredients

The first two ingredients in this food are named meat products, each in meal form. These are followed by three grain products, all of which are decent quality. With three of the five main ingredients grains, this food probably does not have quite as high meat content as is first suggested and the macronutrient breakdown does not add any information.


Beet pulp is a low quality ingredient and filler. It is a by-product, being dried residue from sugar beets which has been cleaned and extracted in the process of manufacturing sugar. It is a controversial ingredient in dog food, claimed by some manufacturers to be a good source of fibre, and derided by others as an ingredient added to slow down the transition of rancid animal fats and causing stress to kidney and liver in the process. We note that beet pulp is an ingredient that commonly causes problems for dogs, including allergies and ear infections, and prefer not to see it used in dog food. There are less controversial products around if additional fibre is required.


The food does contain a good range of probiotics, but less desirable is the use of synthetic vitamin K which is a substance unlikely to be used in higher quality products and that is progressively being removed from use in pet food."

I also supplement my dog's meals with probiotics and digestive enzymes. This can help to digest any grains they might come into contact with as well as prevent yeasty conditions by making the body more acidic. Probiotics also help to prevent bad bacteria from taking hold by helping the body's natural flora to flourish. In my experience, probiotics help with upset stomachs as well as to increase regularity. I personally take probiotics as well as give them to my dogs.

Dr. Lee, If you need to know of some good stores in the Phoenix Area let me know.

Hope this helps.

gypsy_girl
May 7th, 2008, 11:03 PM
I disagree that beet pulp is useless for two reasons, it has a prebiotic factor (pectin) as well is absorbs excess water in the intestinal tract (if there is any) to form a solid stool. This is probably what people refer to as the "stool hardening"
It does also provide motility that some dogs do require.
Having said that I do prefer pumpkin or apple or FOS (chicory, inulin) etc for this purpose as beet pulp is a "by-product" of the sugar industry.
As well beet pulp is not on the testing list as a potential allergen in dog foods (causing ear infections) so not sure where that information comes from????
Maybe anectodal experience???

delorispatel
May 17th, 2008, 09:51 PM
My dog went had the same experience on earthblend. She was 4 months old when it happened. It started out with severe vomiting. She was hospitalized for over a week, developed pneumonia from the vomiting, thought she was going to die, went through multiple tests, had surgery, and was finally discharged with no explanation of what caused the vomiting. We never thought it was an allergy to her dog food until it happened again once the earthblend was reintroduced into her diet. It happened for the 2nd time 4 wks after her initial hospitalization. This time she was hospitalized for only 24 hrs. My husband I are convinced it is due either to the dried beep pulp or menadione. Menadione is a synthetic form of vitamin K which has been shown to cause allergies as well.

MaineCoon Mom
July 2nd, 2008, 09:31 PM
Years ago beet pulp was given to cows for whatever reason. Some people fed beet pulp to horses to put on weight but it is only water weight and is looked upon as totally useless.:yuck: Well educated horse people would never feed this to any horse. Having learnt this years ago I wouldn't feed this to any animal especially my fur babies.:cat:

Sabine
July 3rd, 2008, 05:43 AM
I don't like it all that much. It does list Menadione Sodium Bisulfite (Source of Vitamin K3), which is the synthetic form of Vit. K and has been attributed to renal failure in dogs. (and horses for that matter, but you won't feed dogfood to a horse, therefore it's irrelevant here.) ;)


This is an ingredient that was put in babyfood years, and years ago until they found out, that babies get very sick from it and therefore it was banished from all human foods. They still continue to put it in petfood though.
More info about K3: ***click*** (http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione)

As far as beet pulp goes: It's a cheap filler that does not belong into a dog's or horse's dish. ;) It has no nutritional value whatsoever.

Sabine
July 3rd, 2008, 05:48 AM
This is probably what people refer to as the "stool hardening"

If that's what you're aiming for I suggest you feed raw. ;) Also, dogs who are fed a kibble diet should be supplemented with a digestive enzyme because dry food does not supply enough of them for proper digestion. When I was still feeding a kibble diet, I used to supplement with ProZyme or Fasttrack and thus never had a "stool problem" with any of my dogs. I fed Solid Gold, Pinnacle or Wellness at some point.

Purpledomino
July 5th, 2008, 09:58 AM
Years ago beet pulp was given to cows for whatever reason. Some people fed beet pulp to horses to put on weight but it is only water weight and is looked upon as totally useless.:yuck: Well educated horse people would never feed this to any horse. Having learnt this years ago I wouldn't feed this to any animal especially my fur babies.:cat:

Well I am a well educated horse person. I routinely feed soaked beet pulp to some of my horses for various reasons. I have brought underweight horses back to a healthy weight by feeding it with excellent results. As far as your claim of "water weight"....that is total bunk. :shrug:

Sabine
July 5th, 2008, 01:25 PM
Well yeah - if you want a cheap way of fattening a horse up very fast, beet pulp is the way to go. Unfortunately, there really is not a whole lot of nutrition in it. ;) In Europe they use boiled potatoes or hardened bread loafs to fatten them up. . ;)

:sorry::offtopic::o

Purpledomino
July 6th, 2008, 08:46 AM
Well yeah - if you want a cheap way of fattening a horse up very fast, beet pulp is the way to go. Unfortunately, there really is not a whole lot of nutrition in it. ;) In Europe they use boiled potatoes or hardened bread loafs to fatten them up. . ;)

:sorry::offtopic::o

Beet pulp as the ONLY forage/fibre source definately would not be the ideal feeding program for most horses. It is lacking in essential nutrients, and usually it is used to complement a diet in another forage such as hay or pasture.
I get all my horses used to eating it intermittently, because given the consistency of it, it is handy to give other dry foods, mineral, supplements, or meds in. I also use it to mix with higher protein dry foods to add more bulk without too much concentrates. Soaked beet pulp is highly digestable and good to feed aged horses or horses with dental issues, hard keepers, or as a warm mash in the winter.
The fact that it is cheap to feed is a bonus when you are feeding horses at any time, and you will only "fatten" them up as much as you need to if you regulate your feeding/exercise program no matter what you feed. Another bonus of feeding soaked beet pulp to horses is that you are adding water to their diet, a plus especially in the winter when they are predominately on a dry hay diet. I really don't know how beneficial beet pulp is to canines, but I believe it is relatively harmless in moderation. I think I would prefer it omitted from the ingredient list on dog food, but there probably are much worst things that could be included than beet pulp.
My dogs notoriously "steal" a bite from the horse buckets all the time.......:thumbs up

minimomma
July 6th, 2008, 11:33 AM
I only use the Beet pulp for some of my rescue horses. I find using Beet pulp helps with giving medicine and minerals and supplements. I mix it using grain and other supplements and they eat it without being picky. Any other way and the medicine always sits at the bottom of the bucket untouched.. LOL

rainbow
July 6th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Personally, I agree with the information from the dog food project website.....

www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts

Beet Pulp, the isolated fibrous material from sugar beets, is another ingredient that has an undeservedly bad reputation. It is a very gentle, beneficial source of fiber that is not only generally very well tolerated, but also has specific properties that make it suitable as a source of nutrition for the beneficial bacteria that reside in the intestinal tract. The sugar is almost completely removed, what is left in the pulp is only about 1/5 the amount of sugar that you would find in a serving of carrots of equal size. It is also colorless and does not turn a dog's coat turn red, like urban legends claim. The argument that beet pulp is an "unnatural" ingredient is often brought up, but people who present this complaint seem to forget that it is also not natural for dogs to eat highly processed commercial products with a carb content of generally 40% and more, and a moisture content of only around 10% as opposed to a more natural 60-70%. Added fiber is required to make such formulations work for the pets who eat a dry diet.

MaineCoon Mom
July 6th, 2008, 06:24 PM
A warm bran mash with dried molasses, a small amount of sweet feed with mineral and any meds needed is by far a better way to get meds and vitamins and such into your horses and is also very beneficial for the animal. The bran is good fibre, the molasses is good for the coat and the sweet feed is total nutrition. My original vet,who was considered the best vet in our area, is the one who told me 30 years ago about beet pulp and water weight so I am sorry I am not talking bunk. :frustrated: This man was way ahead of his time when it came to animal nutrition. Horse owners travelled hours to have him work on their animals and to get proper advise on nutrition. I wish he was still alive as I know he would join in the fight against garbage pet foods.:dog:

Purpledomino
July 6th, 2008, 10:19 PM
A warm bran mash with dried molasses, a small amount of sweet feed with mineral and any meds needed is by far a better way to get meds and vitamins and such into your horses and is also very beneficial for the animal. The bran is good fibre, the molasses is good for the coat and the sweet feed is total nutrition. My original vet,who was considered the best vet in our area, is the one who told me 30 years ago about beet pulp and water weight so I am sorry I am not talking bunk. :frustrated: This man was way ahead of his time when it came to animal nutrition. Horse owners travelled hours to have him work on their animals and to get proper advise on nutrition. I wish he was still alive as I know he would join in the fight against garbage pet foods.:dog:

Bran mash actually contains less fibre than beet pulp, and has a dangerously extreme imbalance of phosphorus and calcium. I do not understand how you can say sweet feed is total nutrition, as it contains alot of molasses which is not entirely good for your horse regarding the sugar content. It is actually considered more of a junk food for them. Molasses, good for the coat? I would turn to flaxseed, or an oil product for that.

I am sorry...but the advice your vet gave you thirty years ago doesn't seem sound to me IMO. A lot has changed in equine nutrition in all that time. I would also like you to clarify what "water weight" in an equine is? Still sounds like a bunch of horse puckey to me! :D


http://www.thehorse.com/viewarticle.aspx?ID=424

MaineCoon Mom
July 7th, 2008, 03:01 PM
As we are certainly off topic with getting so deep into horse feeds this will be my final post on the subject.:offtopic:
Water weight is nothing more than water retention the same as in humans. I did not say that bran mash be fed constantly. We always feed a balanced diet of a good protein level pellet, sweet feed, alfalfa or Timothy hay,with bran mash when necessary. As supplements we use a special type of oil for the coat and a vitamin mineral supplement made specially for horses at our local co-op store.Molasses will make a dark coloured coat look richer. Flax as a seed we have found does not do much for the coat as the goodness is inside the seed so if we use it, it is ground and then works much better but we have gotten away from it as it is a lot of work grinding it up constantly when you have several horses to feed and to buy it already ground costs the earth. Alfalfa cubes are really good for putting on good meat weight. We will supplement with a half bucket a day for a horse that needs to gain or a growing young horse. You will never find beet pulp in our barn. In the show ring our horses are the only ones not coated in Show Sheen or the likes. That is my final word on the subject.:ca:

yettiyodamarlo
July 13th, 2008, 01:07 PM
As far as feeding beet pulp to your dog, correct me if I'm wrong please, it's about the fibre in it?

If you are worried beet pulp isn't the greatest for your dog there are many alternatives for fibre other than beet pulp.