Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Out raged

AM04
June 25th, 2004, 08:57 PM
This really bothers me! I got a letter, put in my mail box, stating to go to the mail office to pick up a package. I got there, and there was a letter and package waiting for me, with no name for the return address. But what I got was a letter that read :

I am terrified to leave my front yard, or go into my backyard. Pitbulls are a menice to society, and deserve to be shot. Along with their agressive owners. I demand of you to use what I've sent, or actions will be taken.

He/She sent me two wire muzzles. If I don't put these on my dogs, can anything happen to them? I mean, if she calls the humane society or something, can they be taken from me? I see no reason for my dogs to even know what a muzzle is! They haven't once hurt anyone. I dont know what to do, this angers me so much, and I'm so scared.

Lucky Rescue
June 25th, 2004, 09:02 PM
MY GAWD!!! Lunatics are everywhere!! Have your dogs ever run loose, or shown aggression to anyone? Are pit bulls banned in your area?

If the answers are "no", then please ignore this idiot, who can't even spell his/her threats correctly and is too cowardly to sign his/her name.

Of course you are outraged, but you have no reason to be scared or worried!

AM04
June 25th, 2004, 09:18 PM
I don't think pitbulls are banned in Toronto. I know so many ppl who own them and have never had a problem. But some ppl have told me they are banned.. I doubt it tho.

My dogs have never run loose. Unless they were at an offleash park, but even then they stay close to me. Or when they're at the beach with me, they go swimming and jog, rollerblade etc. But they stay by my side when that's being done.

I'm just scared that they might be taken away from me. :(

had to edit cuz I forgot to add that they've never shown any signs of agression. Not towards anyone, or anything. They wont even put a stuffed animal in their mouth because they think it's real.

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 09:25 PM
PBT's are NOT banned in T.O and there is NO muzzle law enforcement here for them.

Report this to TAS Toronto Animal Service, and The Humane Society as well as the Police!!

I am so sorry this happened to you AM

lookingtoadopt
June 25th, 2004, 09:25 PM
I wouldnt worry about them being taken from you. I once had to call animal services due to 2 puppies being beaten, I could hear the actual hits through my floor in my apartment. When I called the humane society, they didnt even send anyone out to check it out, they said as long as I didnt see it they couldnt do anything.

If some whacko has a problem with Pit Bulls I'd say its just that, their problem. I'm pretty sure that nothing can be done just cause they dont like them.

Some people have way too much time on their hands... :(

AM04
June 25th, 2004, 09:29 PM
That's good news! That they're not banned, and they wont be taken away.
I dont know the name or address of the person who sent it. There was no return address.. Maybe the post office knows?

melanie
June 25th, 2004, 09:45 PM
keep a close eye on the puppies, you dont know what a freak will do, and they obviously know where you live, keep a good eye on the dogs and i wuldnt be leaving them outside on their own for a while, god what a freak the person is.. :mad:

LavenderRott
June 25th, 2004, 09:57 PM
Do not handle it anymore then you have. Take it to your police department. Better yet, call the police to your house and give it to them on your front porch. Make sure you make it known that you want to file a report. Have the officers bag this as evidence, even if they don't want to take it-you want THEM to bag it, seal it and initial it.

This way if anything should happen to your dogs, you have something that you can use to find out who.

AM04
June 25th, 2004, 10:09 PM
They don't go outside alone. Everytime they go into the backyard is whenever I'm out there throwing the ball for them. But you're right, I gotta keep an extremely close eye on them. Especially with what happened to Lucy at my previous residence - she got poisoned (rat poison)

Lucky Rescue
June 25th, 2004, 10:09 PM
Also, make sure you do not give anyone reason to complain about your dogs. Do not have them off leash in public, or in dog parks - ever.

AM04
June 25th, 2004, 10:13 PM
I don't take them to dog parks when ppl are there anymore. Haven't for about 2 weeks. The bully dog was getting too aggressive towards Chaos, and I feared that if it went any further that she wont take it anymore and attack him. I take them there around 2-3am. I haven't touched the muzzles at all. I just opened the box and saw them. I'll close the box back up and put it away till tomorrow. I'll def. call them. Thanks for the suggestion

Spoiled
June 25th, 2004, 10:16 PM
I am terrified to leave my front yard, or go into my backyard.

OK, this person obviously lives in his/her front yard, by the sound of it. This is a freak, and make it obvious that you will NOT put the muzzles on your dogs.

AM04
June 25th, 2004, 10:22 PM
I have a feeling it's the lady who lives across the street from me.. because the day I moved in I was sitting on the front steps, and had my dogs behind me on the porch with a baby crate blocking so they couldn't go onto the front lawn, and she came outside with her kids and looked across the street, then picked them up and went back inside. Also, whenever I'm walking them, she crosses the street. I feel bad for making her feel uncomfortable around her own home, but I can't help but take my dogs out. They need to be comfortable too.

Spoiled
June 25th, 2004, 10:30 PM
I feel bad for making her feel uncomfortable around her own home, but I can't help but take my dogs out. They need to be comfortable too.

This is true. Your dogs need to be comfortable, and the sidewalks are for everyone. And too bad if she feels uncomfortable around her own home. That is her problem, not yours, and she needs to get over it, or move away.

AM04
June 25th, 2004, 10:45 PM
That is also true! if she says something, I should say that back to her..

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 10:49 PM
Don't say anything to anyone about the box or what you got!

Don't talk about it, hint about it or make comments to your neighbours.

Ignore it!

BUT Put everything in a plastic bag try not to touch any of it and contact the police.

Was your name on the box?

AM04
June 26th, 2004, 01:13 AM
I'm not going to say anything to anyone. My dad knows, but he came with me to get it. The name has the purolator sticker on it, with my first and last name and address written on it, as well, the envelope the letter came in has my name and address written on it by the person who sent it.

melanie
June 26th, 2004, 04:37 AM
this person is what i call a speciest, or perhaps a breedist in this case. oh please be careful, i dont want to read that some mongrel did something to your babies, buggers. it is definatly a neighbor (a non biased friend read this post and definatly agrees). it just sucks that they would do this, it makes you feel uncomfortable and consious of your dogs normal behaviour. well if they are in your yard or are restrained on leash there is darnwell nothing anyone can do to you. it just makes me so angry (as you are), how dare people intrude on your life. it truly is wrong that you will now worry about it, some people are so self obsessed and do their best to disturb the rest of us, your neighbours need to get a life. look, dont worry about the law, you are well within your rights. just be soooo careful, some people will do anything for attention including hurting innocent animals, oh poor babies :mad: :mad: perahps you can think about training them not to accept food and such, not a solution but may help..not that you should need to, mongrels :mad: :mad:

AM04
June 26th, 2004, 08:26 AM
Thankfully my dogs wont take anything from someone other than me and my dad. I don't know why they do it, but sure as hell glad! they just sniff it, and look at us for guidance on what's right. It's a good thing too, especially in this case, but it means I can take my dogs into pet stores, and convient stores, without having to worry that they'll eat something off the shelf. Also shows how smart pitbulls really are, and how polite too!

I've called the police about it, and they said that they'll send someone over within the next hour :) and that they're sad to hear that this has happened. Good to hear that they're on my side! :D


-EDIT- The police have come :) They took the box with the letter and put it in a bag, and initialed the bag. They asked to meet the dogs, so I introduced them. Complimented on how they stayed in the hallway while the cops were talking to me in the living room :) This makes me feel really good, especially because they took the report and put that there seems to be no signs of agression, and they're well trained :D I'm crying I'm so happy.

Lucky Rescue
June 26th, 2004, 09:29 AM
Excellent! Now the police know about this nutcase, and also that your dogs are good dogs.:)

You might want to get a letter from your vet stating that your dogs are well-behaved and non-aggressive. Never know when you might need it.

I would love to see pics of them. Can you post some?

Luba
June 26th, 2004, 10:31 AM
Me too, love to see some pictures :D

cutelittlemako
June 26th, 2004, 12:30 PM
If it was sent by purolator, there is some paper work with purolator about this package, by the package you gave the police, they should be able to establish the address of the person who did this to you by contacting purolator and giving them the number on the paper where your address was written. It had to be picked up, so they will have an address. If it would have gone throught the mail, then it's different because anyone could just put the right amount of postage stamps on the package and drop it in a box with no return address. I sure hope they find who did this to you because it is harassement. When you had the box you should have called Purolator and told them about this and that you had been harassed, this is very unfair to you! Good luck!

chico2
June 26th, 2004, 04:04 PM
Amo,I am so sorry for you and your dogs,but you have nothing to worry about other than the nutcase who sent you this package,maybe she's a member of PETA :D
I see you already watch your dogs carefully,but be extra cautious with your back yard,it does not take much to poison a dog.
I have a nut-case across the street from me,she's threatened to burn down peoples houses,why I don't know,she's sent notes to at least 20 houses saying she's a convicted arsonist...police can do nothing unless she actually starts a fire,had me worried for a while!!
I am glad the police knows about your package,just be careful,but this person don't have a leg to stand on,your dogs have done nothing wrong,other than being pit-bulls and they are not banned in TO.

Lucky Rescue
June 26th, 2004, 04:23 PM
Anyone who blames the breed, and not the deed, should educate themselves, and stop swallowing the hysterical and sensationalistic media crap.

We know how reliable the press is, in their quest for more readers. I bet most of the people who wouldnt' want you as a neighbour have never met a pit bull in person, and are ignorant of anything about them except what is spoon-fed to them by the media. :mad: People need to do their own thinking.

Need proof?
Got to the American Temperament Test Society and see that pit bulls score higher than America's sweetheart, the Golden Retriever.
ATTS (http://www.atts.org/statistics.html)

AM04
June 26th, 2004, 09:55 PM
The police have told me that they're going to keep this stuff on all record, and if anything does happen, then they will contact purolator then. Hopefully the information there wont get lost :confused:

How would I come about doing a temperment test, just so I have proof that they're not agressive? I called my vet and she came and dropped off a letter that was signed by the staff at the clinic saying that they're wonderful dogs, and have a great temperment and show no sign of agression. But a temperment test would be better to have on hand, even it nothing goes forward with this person.

As for my back yard, me and my dad cleaned everything out today. Took out anything that had water in it, or could have water held in it, so she couldn't put poison in that. Threw away all their toys that were outside, and bought new ones that are going to be taken inside when not in use now. We put a better lock on our gate too. We talked about putting up wood fences rather than the regular wire ones we have now.. but since we rent we'd have to talk to the landlord. We put those children gates in the areas where we wouldn't be able to see the dogs if they were out there by themself. Is there anything else I could do to make my backyard more safe for them?

There's alot of crazy ppl out there, and that must've been terrifying to hear about someone wanting to set fire to homes in your neighborhood :mad: I wouldn't have been able to sleep till I knew something wasn't going to happen. People who send letters like that, should be put somewhere where they couldn't do harm to other people.

meowzart
June 26th, 2004, 10:11 PM
You can get your dog accredited with a 'good citizen' award - I think usually through agencies that handle 'therapy dogs' Maybe someone else knows more about this.

LavenderRott
June 26th, 2004, 10:52 PM
AM04 - check your pm's please!

Luba
June 26th, 2004, 11:05 PM
Sounds like you and your family are doing all the right things!

Too bad you have to but it's better then being sorry! I'm not sure if you do this now but before you let them off lead in the yard you should check around make sure nobody has 'dumped' anything for them to pick up like poisoned food bits.

It may very well be that nothing will come of this hysterical idiot who sent you this junk mail..thats just what it is junk!

IF you get another parcel that isn't expected, call the police officer that dealt with your issue and advise another one is waiting for you.

AM04
June 26th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Yeah, we cleaned out everything in the backyard. Even all the leaves that were there before, all the sticks are gone too. all our backyard is now is grass and dirt :p we had actually found pack of slightly opened hotdogs when we first moved in, and all I could think about was the hotdogs that were put in the park near my house that killed some dogs, and made many sick :( since then we've been checking for stuff along those lines every couple hours.

Luba
June 26th, 2004, 11:31 PM
I sent u a pm Am

haha am pm pm am
lmao

AM04
June 27th, 2004, 05:41 AM
lol, AM is actually my initials.. I told my parents they should've named my brother Peter or something so it could be AM and PM :P Kinda ironic how I was born in the morning.. would've been cool if they did name my brother with a P name.. he was born in the evening:P

Spoiled
June 27th, 2004, 11:39 AM
Hey that is funnnnny!
:eek:

Poppy
June 27th, 2004, 11:47 AM
I am glad you are doing everything you can to ensure your dogs' safety. As well, it's good the police know about it too - there are so many nutcases out there these days :eek:

Catt31
June 28th, 2004, 08:22 AM
Holy Man, AM, that is horrible what you are going through!!! It really sounds like you and your Dad are doing all the right things too....good job!! Other irresponsible pet owners wouldn't be doing any of those things - good on ya girl!!! Please please be wary of ANYONE and ANYTHING now and into the future.....this nutcase might just be biding their time, then strike when you least expect it, or when you've let your guard down!! It would break my heart (and everyone here) if something happened to your luvs because of one idiot!!

My parents recently found a margarine lid in their yard with "something" in it....of course they had thrown it out before they talked to me, or I would have advised them to call the cops. My parents are in their 70's and aren't real wise to the capabilities of people, especially living in a very small town!! And they let their dog out in the yard for quite awhile each time he goes out!! Scared the hell out of me, so I can only imagine what you are going through!! I am very glad to hear that the cops did show up!! Our tax dollars are working at least some of the time!!! Good luck and keep your babies safe!!! :D

sammy King
June 28th, 2004, 08:59 AM
Sure pit bulls get a bad rap- but so does somene carring a hand gun. They may be the nicest person you ever met but until you know them you are skeptical. The same with the Pit bull, it is like a loaded gun, there is potential there. People dont know what to expect.

My suggetion is to aquaint your neigbors with you dog so that they can see that he is no harm and also your dog will know that they are OK too.

Life is not a one way street,

Sammy

Spoiled
June 28th, 2004, 12:16 PM
The same with the Pit bull, it is like a loaded gun, there is potential there.

Not with a well bred Pitbull. There is potential for an attack of a dog or other small animal, but not a person.

AM04
June 28th, 2004, 08:47 PM
There hasn't seemed to be any complaints, nothing in our backyard. Actually, things seem to be more peaceful.. which is scaring me a little. We usually get complaints cuz of my brother's music being too loud. Nothing's been put in our backyard, but we're going to continue checking it twice daily.

theplainsjane
June 28th, 2004, 09:28 PM
Once at the park, my Ellie came running up to me with a *pork chop* in her mouth. Being mid winter, I found it highly unlikely that anyone had been picnicking. I took it away and kept it in a poop bag until I was sure it wasn't going to make her sick. It didn't, thankfully, but I never did figure out how it got where it was.

End note, when we walk by that place now, six months later, Ellie still occasionally goes on a pork chop hunt. :P Alas, her belly never seems to be full enough to suit her.

Luba
June 28th, 2004, 10:40 PM
Sammy King what do you know about PBT's to make that statement?

Are you aware that most dog bites that happen to humans are NOT caused by PBT's?

SOUTHERNPHILLY
June 28th, 2004, 10:47 PM
MY GAWD!!! Lunatics are everywhere!! Have your dogs ever run loose, or shown aggression to anyone? Are pit bulls banned in your area?

If the answers are "no", then please ignore this idiot, who can't even spell his/her threats correctly and is too cowardly to sign his/her name.

Of course you are outraged, but you have no reason to be scared or worried!
DO THESE DOGS HAVE A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE? THAT'S ENOUGH SAID. :confused:

Lucky Rescue
June 28th, 2004, 10:52 PM
The same with the Pit bull, it is like a loaded gun, there is potential there.

Can you tell me the source of this information please? Since you a person who has stated he would rather kill his dog than train "it", maybe you shouldn't make any definitive statements about dogs.

Luba
June 28th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Southern P

What are you talking about? What basis are you forming your opinion on ?

Who said these dogs bit anyone?

SOUTHERNPHILLY
June 28th, 2004, 11:28 PM
Southern P

What are you talking about? What basis are you forming your opinion on ?

Who said these dogs bit anyone?



The numbers donít lie.

Of the 37 dog bites in York so far this year, 19 have come from pit bulls, also known as American pit bull terriers.

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 50 percent of dog attack deaths from 1979-98 where the breed was known came from bull-type dogs and Rottweilers.

SOUTHERNPHILLY
June 28th, 2004, 11:30 PM
Can you tell me the source of this information please? Since you a person who has stated he would rather kill his dog than train "it", maybe you shouldn't make any definitive statements about dogs.


The numbers donít lie.

Of the 37 dog bites in York so far this year, 19 have come from pit bulls, also known as American pit bull terriers.

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 50 percent of dog attack deaths from 1979-98 where the breed was known came from bull-type dogs and Rottweilers.

SOUTHERNPHILLY
June 28th, 2004, 11:32 PM
Not with a well bred Pitbull. There is potential for an attack of a dog or other small animal, but not a person.

The numbers donít lie.

Of the 37 dog bites in York so far this year, 19 have come from pit bulls, also known as American pit bull terriers.

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 50 percent of dog attack deaths from 1979-98 where the breed was known came from bull-type dogs and Rottweilers.

SOUTHERNPHILLY
June 28th, 2004, 11:33 PM
This really bothers me! I got a letter, put in my mail box, stating to go to the mail office to pick up a package. I got there, and there was a letter and package waiting for me, with no name for the return address. But what I got was a letter that read :

I am terrified to leave my front yard, or go into my backyard. Pitbulls are a menice to society, and deserve to be shot. Along with their agressive owners. I demand of you to use what I've sent, or actions will be taken.

He/She sent me two wire muzzles. If I don't put these on my dogs, can anything happen to them? I mean, if she calls the humane society or something, can they be taken from me? I see no reason for my dogs to even know what a muzzle is! They haven't once hurt anyone. I dont know what to do, this angers me so much, and I'm so scared.


The numbers donít lie.

Of the 37 dog bites in York so far this year, 19 have come from pit bulls, also known as American pit bull terriers.

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 50 percent of dog attack deaths from 1979-98 where the breed was known came from bull-type dogs and Rottweilers.

Luba
June 28th, 2004, 11:38 PM
So back up your argument with links so we can read to ensure they're from credible sources.

Do you have any idea of the number of bites that are NOT reported?

Bites that happen from common breeds like JRT's, Cocker Spaniels, Labs, Spitz, and so on (unlimited)

Please explain why you have let the media hype about these dogs allow you to catagorically lump them all together?

Lucky Rescue
June 28th, 2004, 11:51 PM
SouthernPhilly, could you please stop posting the same response multiple times in one thread?

AM04's dog are not aggressive and never have been, for one thing.

For another, how many of those "pit bull type dogs" that the press screams about are actually pit bulls? MANY of them are mixed breeds, or simply not pit bulls at all. Did you know that?

Dogs from Pugs and Boxers to Hounds and a CHIHUAHUA and everything in between (if it has short hair) has been ID'd as a "pit bull" by the hysterical press, and people are too willing to swallow it hook, line and sinker. After all, would people rush to turn on the tube or buy a newspaper if the headlines read "Mixed Breed Attacks!"

Here is a well-written, unbiased and sensible article. You might want to take a look at it.
Here (http://dogs.about.com/cs/breedprofiles/a/mean_dogs.htm)

sammiec
June 29th, 2004, 08:10 AM
AM - I think you've done the right thing, I am sad your for and your puppies that you have to go through this. People are screwed up, I am sure that everything will be just fine. ONe question though - if this person had sent anything Purolator it would have been dropped at your door (unless you weren't home)... the eron would have had to apy at the post office (or have the slips readily available at home - which is very unlikely) IF the person paid at teh post office I believe they must provide name and address etc... you should check into this. But your neighbour across the street does sound kinda fishy... Best of Luck!!

And Southernphilly - you're a troll. I think you are just another person that believes everything that they read and have no substance to back up your claims. Repeating your posts does not make us believe anymore that they first time you wrote it. There are anough people with common sense here that you're poop won't fly - nice try though...

LavenderRott
June 29th, 2004, 08:20 AM
The numbers donít lie.

Of the 37 dog bites in York so far this year, 19 have come from pit bulls, also known as American pit bull terriers.

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 50 percent of dog attack deaths from 1979-98 where the breed was known came from bull-type dogs and Rottweilers.

This is how the CDC gets it's numbers. When someone goes to the emergency room for a dog bite, the following information is forwarded to the CDC's computer:

severity of injury
age of victim
sex of victim
victim's contact information

Later, someone sitting at a desk, randomly calls SOME of the victims. They ask about the breed of dog and whether the dog lives in the home. Now, I am willing to bet that most people who are bit by a dog that isn't there own, don't have a clue as to what kind of dog it was.

Oh, and I can back that up too.

link (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html)

Oh, and most pit bull bans include staffordshire terriers and any mix thereof.

sammiec
June 29th, 2004, 08:26 AM
Sure pit bulls get a bad rap- but so does somene carring a hand gun. They may be the nicest person you ever met but until you know them you are skeptical. The same with the Pit bull, it is like a loaded gun, there is potential there.

Sammy

This is an absolute load of crap! Pit Bulls are NOTHING like people who carry guns, to make that ASSumption is just ridiculous! A better analogy might be don't judge a book by its cover - don't you think.... :mad:


Oh, forgot to add: to SOUTHERNPHILLY - where in York are you from??

LavenderRott
June 29th, 2004, 08:29 AM
Now, don't anyone yell at me.

To say that all pit bulls are dangerous is like saying all African Americans are drug dealers, all Mexicans are gang members and all people of Middle Eastern descent are terrorists.

Talk about narrow minded.

sammiec
June 29th, 2004, 08:35 AM
I think that is a great point LavR, that's my argument everytime that someone makes a comment about my pittie. It's extremely narrow minded... nice work!

sammy King
June 29th, 2004, 10:17 AM
This is an absolute load of crap! Pit Bulls are NOTHING like people who carry guns, to make that ASSumption is just ridiculous! A better analogy might be don't judge a book by its cover - don't you think.... :mad:


Oh, forgot to add: to SOUTHERNPHILLY - where in York are you from??


The analogy here is a person carrying a gun is suspect of wrong doing as well as a pit bull. Do all people who carry guns kill someone NO, are all pit bull dogs viscious NO. But the fear is there, and the warning that started this thread proves it. Someone who lives near this owner is scared of the dog and what it might do. Common sense should prevail here instead of this ANYTHING FOR MY DOGGIE attitude. I still say that meeting the neighbors that live near is still the best medicine.

Put yourself in the other persons place-

Lucky Rescue
June 29th, 2004, 10:23 AM
Sandi, thanks for the info about the CDC. I know that you've probably felt the bias against your dogs as well. To go off track for a moment, the first time I saw or heard of Rotties was in the 1970's movie The Omen. Of course I thought they were terrifying and vicious, but I educated myself. I wish other people would.

Funny, until the 1980's no one knew what a pit bull even was, and now people who could not tell a Rottie from a Bernese Mtn dog (and certainly cannot tell an AB from a Cane Corso from a Neo Mastiff) can positively ID a pit bull immediately,and in the midst of being attacked. Wow.

The sad thing is that when a huge "PIT BULL ATTACKS" story appears on the front page, and the dog is later found to be another breed or mix, the correction appears 3 days later, at the bottom of page 12. :mad: And people like Southernphilly never read that part.

sammiec
June 29th, 2004, 10:27 AM
The analogy here is a person carrying a gun is suspect of wrong doing as well as a pit bull. Do all people who carry guns kill someone NO, are all pit bull dogs viscious NO. But the fear is there, and the warning that started this thread proves it. Someone who lives near this owner is scared of the dog and what it might do. Common sense should prevail here instead of this ANYTHING FOR MY DOGGIE attitude. I still say that meeting the neighbors that live near is still the best medicine.

Put yourself in the other persons place-

The other person being AM or the neighbour? I think that if she was to bring your dogs to the neighbour house when the fear of them is obviously evident they will feel more threatened and uncomfortable thinking that you are develping a confrontation and/or threatening then with the dogs. She does not know for a fact that it is this neighbour that sent the package. Being that the neighbour is obviously threatened by these dogs I think the safest thing for AM is to respect the nieghbour by keeping a very close watch on the dogs in the yard and on a lead - which she already does...I would not change what you're doing AM...if this neighbour did send the muzzles, I would steer clear, you don't know what her train of thought is. You guys would knw that I'm not just saying this because of the breed, but the safety of her dogs in general.

sammiec
June 29th, 2004, 11:32 AM
The numbers donít lie.

Of the 37 dog bites in York so far this year, 19 have come from pit bulls, also known as American pit bull terriers.

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 50 percent of dog attack deaths from 1979-98 where the breed was known came from bull-type dogs and Rottweilers.

Interesting... I found this page with exactly the same information...There really is a "source"!!! York, PA...don't know how factual it really is though.... :rolleyes:

http://www.ydr.com/pets/pets040606.php

Just a point that you can't believe everything that you read - note "jaw locks on prey"... :eek:

http://www.newsline.umd.edu/politics/pitbull/pitbullpage2.htm

Luba
June 29th, 2004, 12:39 PM
i've gathered information from various sites:

http://www.dogexpert.com/HomePage/DogBiteStatistics.html
There are approximately 4.5 million reported dog bites annually in the United States (nearly 2% of the American population). The majority of dog bites are never reported to local authorities

Mixed breeds and not pure bred dogs are the type of dog most often involved in inflicting bites to people. The pure-bred dogs most often involved are German shepherds and Chow chows.

The list of breeds most involved in both bite injuries and fatalities changes from year to year and from one area of the country to another, depending on the popularity of the breed. Canines not spayed or neutered are three times more likely to bite than sterilized ones.

From the pdf file:
Cocker spaniel, Rotties, Golden Retrievers have the highest incident
because of their popularity! (Canada and Netherlands)


http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm
From the CDC

Their table shows that incidents of bite fatalitys for which breed unknown is ALWAYS the highest!

From 1979 to 1996
199 fatal dog bites of which the breed is UNKNOWN

From 1979 to 1996
60 for PBT's and PBT cross breeds (NOT just pure PBTS)
So almost 3X as many bites from unknown breeds that are fatal as opposed to the 'suggestive' by many that PBT's cause MOST of the fatal bites!!


These stats are taken directly from the Humane Society Registry of the U.S.


http://masseynews.massey.ac.nz/magazine/2003_April/stories/dogs.html
In the late 1980s a list of breeds involved in 40 serious dogs attacks on children in Adelaide included German shepherd dogs (10), German shepherd crossbreds (5), rottweilers (7), pitbull terrier- and pitbull terrier TYPE dogs(4), Siberian huskies (3) and one akita, doberman pinscher, labrador retriever, chow chow and Australian shepherd.

Pitbull terrier-type dogs have been involved in many of the recently reported dog attacks and are the target for those promoting breed control legislation. But dog aggression was a public problem in New Zealand before this type of terrier became common and some of the breeds listed above may come under scrutiny in the near future.

Take note it's Pitbull Terrier TYPE dogs!!! They can't even identify if they are pbt's or not! Saying that if it 'looks' like a PBT it MUST be a PBT?
How accurate is that?

sammiec
June 29th, 2004, 12:45 PM
EXCELLENT WORK LUBA!!! :D :D :D :D

Nice investigating work! Can't get anything past you!! LOL

rebel24
June 29th, 2004, 01:50 PM
that link to the dog expert site is a good one. i've read to before and posted it on a few other boards. but for someone to say have a apbt is like walking around with a loaded gun is just crazy nonsense. you are judge a entire breed by some bad examples of dogs that were not trained right, abused, and god only knows what else. now with that said i can see both sides of the arguement on pit bulls. I see where people who have may have been biten by this breed may be afraid of it bacause i too was biten by one in the past(pretty bad bite too) did it make me dislike the breed or say all are bad No. I also see the owners side of the breed you can not judge all dogs by a few bad examples most pit bulls are loving, caring, funny,playful and so many other things. so don't judge an entire breed by some bad examples.

Luba
June 29th, 2004, 01:57 PM
It just irks me Sammiec that people open their yaps w/o knowing what they're talking about. Many of this hysteria is caused by unknowledgeable media that go for a 'story'.

This all seemed to start years ago with a nutcase woman in the U.S who had trained her dog to attack people. Since it was caught on tape and played over and over again in all media outlets the poor PBT was seen as the most vicious of all breeds and took over the target from the Dobies, GSD's and the Rotties as well as Akita's.

I remember this video really well and I wish it were on the net so everyone can see what I'm talking about or be reminded.

The woman let the dog out to attack animal control officers, which it did. The dog latched onto her side and breast. Locked it's jaws on her and then ran wildly back to the house where I believe it bit the owner a couple of times. The dog was shot and killed in the street by police.

It seems after this 'one' situation with a nutcase woman the PBTs' started to be centre of attention.

It's no different then how the media target certain area's of cities as being 'bad neighbourhoods' full of 'drugs and guns'.

Whatever gets people watching their network is what they run with!

rebel24
June 29th, 2004, 02:10 PM
it seems like i have seen something like that before. it is such a sad thing to hear about people like that.

Lucky Rescue
June 29th, 2004, 04:38 PM
Saying that if it 'looks' like a PBT it MUST be a PBT?

No, Luba. What they are saying is: "If the breed is not known and the dog bites it MUST be a pit bull". :rolleyes:

Spoiled
June 29th, 2004, 06:44 PM
This is how the CDC gets it's numbers. When someone goes to the emergency room for a dog bite, the following information is forwarded to the CDC's computer:

severity of injury
age of victim
sex of victim
victim's contact information

Later, someone sitting at a desk, randomly calls SOME of the victims. They ask about the breed of dog and whether the dog lives in the home. Now, I am willing to bet that most people who are bit by a dog that isn't there own, don't have a clue as to what kind of dog it was.

Oh, and I can back that up too.

link (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html)

Oh, and most pit bull bans include staffordshire terriers and any mix thereof.


Wouldn't the victims be in shock? :confused:

Luba
June 29th, 2004, 07:13 PM
Some maybe, not all. What is your point though? I'm not sure I understand what you're reference is? Do you mean in shock and therefore can't identify the breed? Is that what you're talking about?

glasslass
June 29th, 2004, 07:32 PM
Before PBTs and Rots, it was Dobies. Chihuahuas have a bad rap for being "ankle-biters". I'm a poodle owner and I've seen it somewhere that poodles also have a high incidence of biting. The media just doesn't get the same sensationalism from a headline that screams "MAD POODLE ATTACKS . . :eek: . . (WHATEVER)", or . . maybe they would! :D Media feeds on irrational fear.

SOUTHERNPHILLY
June 29th, 2004, 11:40 PM
The numbers donít lie.

Of the 37 dog bites in York so far this year, 19 have come from pit bulls, also known as American pit bull terriers.

In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 50 percent of dog attack deaths from 1979-98 where the breed was known came from bull-type dogs and Rottweilers.
WAIT A BIT. YOU'LL SEE HIS TRUE COLORS!!

sammiec
June 30th, 2004, 07:12 AM
SOUTHERNPHILLY - do you read anything that anyone posts AFTER your comments?!?! Now you've even begun to quote yourself - we all read what you wrote and frankly this "information" that you have doesn't hold water. I also posted after you from a paper that said that Pit Bulls have lock jaws, once again, you can't always believe what you read.... but I guess you didn't see that.

And yes, you can train a pit bull. They were bred for fighting, this is a trait that will say with the breed; as many of us have posted many times, and LR is and excellent person to talk to about her experience with pit bulls. My pit bull has an excellent tempermant for other dogs, and LR's does not like other dogs - each dog is different like people.... BUT dog aggression does not mean that the pit bull will attack people.

They can be trusted to an extent, but only experienced, knowledgable and responsible people shoud own these dogs. IT's NOT and animal that you buy for your 5 year old, like a lab or a retreiver.

Many people do not understand that in many instances pit bulls do not start the fight, but they will - with out a doubt - end the fight. That's why they sould not be left unsupervised with other dogs.

I think that you have been brainwashed by the media and have no real information to back your story up - and with that you will probably double and triple post that rediculous "story" about the numbers not lying....

Catt31
June 30th, 2004, 08:08 AM
What about ChowChows?? They have a set of their own statistics if I'm not mistaken!! I'm going to go search!

A 1997 study of dog bite fatalities in the years 1979 through 1996 revealed that the following breeds had killed one or more persons: pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas.

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictibility is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)

Many jurisdictions force the dog bite reporter to list the dog by breed, but many of these dogs are not purebreds. They are mixed breeds, frequently of unknown parentage. Some jurisdictions will accept a listing of mixed breed but many will not. Is the dog that just bit someone a multiple-breed-Chow mix? Guess what, it will probably be listed as a Chow Chow bite. Own a Hound/Bull dog mix? Chances are good it will be listed as a Pit Bull. A mixed breed dog is just that.

For the average person anything with prick ears and blue eyes automatically becomes a "husky," yet many breeds can have blue eyes, and many more have prick ears. Any smooth coated brown dog, medium sized, and muscular becomes a "pit bull" yet upon examination many have been found to be purebred Boxers. Any tall dog becomes a Great Dane, fuzzy or hairy and itís a Chow Chow. If itís black and tan and heavy itís a Rottweiler, etc. See the problem with this? The average person cannot tell the difference between an Alaskan Malamute, a Siberian Husky, and an Akita.

That's just a few of the things that I found that related to this thread!! However, I could have gone on forever!
Bad website to come to with an attitude like that, southern philly...... be prepared for a fight!!!

rebel24
June 30th, 2004, 08:50 AM
i have seen plenty of pit bulls be as kinda and gentle as a lamb.not just young pits but older ones. Southernphilly have you ever been bite by a pit or something. is that way you feel so strong about this breed. caause let me tell lots of pits can be big babies.

LavenderRott
June 30th, 2004, 09:03 AM
One of the best known Search and Rescue dog handlers in the U.S. is a woman who lives in California. She runs 3 American Pit Bull Terriers.

link (http://http://www.forpitssake.org/frame.html)

These dogs can find me and my kids anytime!

babykitty
June 30th, 2004, 09:37 AM
SouthernPhilly you might as well say that all Germans are horrible people because of what Hitler did or that all people who are from the middle east are terrorists,( this is not meant to offend anyone) but you wouldn't would you because they are Human beings and not animals.
Again it comes full circle to the ignorant (and by that I mean uneducated public and owners). My advice to you SOUTHERNPHILLY is read a book, meet some of the bully breeds, don't base your narrow opinion on the media hypes that you've heard, or the fact that the crack dealer down the road owns one that was trained to attack (you can train a cocker spaniel to do that!).
I had an Amstaff with my ex, and so many people tried to correct me and tell me that it was a pitbull but Canada doesn't recognize the APBT in the CKC and that's why the name was changed but it's still the same dog, there is a prime example of ignorance.

Another example
They can be trusted to an extent, but only experienced, knowledgable and responsible people should own these dogs. IT's NOT and animal that you buy for your 5 year old, like a lab or a retreiver.

I have a friend owned a pitbull(from a pup) , and had a 3 year old daughter, I would not even hesitate to say that I trusted that dog with her ( I wouldn't trust my lab with a child that small, she's still too rambunctious)... He was more gentle with her than words can describe, because he was brought up with her, trained and socialized with small children.

Pretty well any dog has the potential to be dangerous, I have met agressive labs and have met a few animal agressive retrievers, again it all comes down to Ignorance, bad breeders and owners who think that the Dog will socialize itself and just because it's a "LAB" it will not need to be socialized.
But these are the same people who have probably never seen a pit in person,
only in the media.

I agree that a pit is not for the faint of heart, they take alot of work, as do all of the terrier breeds. It is in their description to be tenacious and fearless most were bred to contend with the harsh jobs of taking down vermin and rodents and Amstaffs were bred to help american settlers haul things (that's why they love to pull) and protect the family stead.

Look at how many JRT are in shelters each year due to uneducated owners and impulse buyers, they are a breed that needs mental and physical stimulation the problem is that most of these dogs end up in shelters because they are smarter than their owners... who didn't know enough about the breed and just thought that they were cute, God forbid that you have to mentally stimulate a dog,
To quote someone I know who was very canine uneducated when I met them, " Its a dog it's supposed to do that" concerning bad behaviour(their dog doesn't listen to this day,begs at the table by putting its head in your lap while you are eating, agressively tries to attack other animals, the mailman the paperboy etc, etc. and this is a border collie lab cross?

Now please try to tell me again to all that think there is such a thing as a certain breeds that are dangerous. pitbulls aren't the problem in the equation.

I think that instead of banning the breeds that they should make a law that has strict penalties(to the owners), maybe one that stipulates if you own one of these"dangerous" breeds you would HAVE to attend canine training, every two years after that a refresher course, dog licensing and if one is found without proof of all of this then they can be confiscated, a law that states if you don't have a breeding license that your Dangerous breed HAS to be fixed, something anything that would possibly make people less careless. This might deter some of the people that think owning a bully breed is "cool" cause they look manly or tough, due to the cost of owning one.....I know that it's not a fair or perfect solution but if you make them harder and more inaccessible to own then just maybe we can one day have it so that every one who owns any of the banned breeds will only be educated people who are knowledgable about the breed.

I know that I ranted, but this is an issue close to my heart. I don't know who decides on what is a dangerous breed but I can bet that none of them have ever met the so called dangerous breed that does search and rescue or therapy dogs.
I apolagize for the length of this post, but this whole hate of breeds P@#$ed me off.

Lucky Rescue
June 30th, 2004, 11:03 AM
They can be trusted to an extent, but only experienced, knowledgable and responsible people should own these dogs. IT's NOT and animal that you buy for your 5 year old, like a lab or a retreiver

What do you mean by this? Do you mean "trusted to an extent" with other dogs, or people??
Pit bulls were traditionally bred and raised to be very unaggressive to people, to the extent that they are some of the world's WORST watchdogs. This trait is also what makes them so pitifully easy to abuse.

A pit bull with correct temperament should love everyone, especially kids, and if your dog is aggressive to people, that is a serious temperamental fault in the dog.
I personally would trust my pit bull with a 5 year old, before I would trust many other dogs, including my OWN last dog, who was not trustworthy at all.

Before this breed got into the hands of the punks, thugs and wannabes, they were very popular as all-around farm dogs and family pets, known for stable temperament, loyalty and love of the family.

And MANY kids are bitten by Labs and Cocker Spaniels (although I blame parents for this as they naively think it's fine to leave small kids alone with this breed)

What about Akitas? Sherry E.Wallis, who is a breeder, fancier and very knowledgeable about the breed has this to say:

Akitas frequently direct aggression towards strangers in the home, especially children. They also display dominance aggression in and outside the home. Perhaps all this aggression is related to a strong pack instinct where aggression arises from a perceived threat either to the dogs place in his pack or to the pack itself.



And SOUTHERNPHILLY, your posts are becoming very trollish and inflammatory, and if they continue in this vein, they will be deleted.

mastifflover
June 30th, 2004, 11:35 AM
The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictibility is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)

Surprised that this even made the papers it is not about a Pit or GSD or any other of these large vicious dogs that they want breed bans for. This is not about breed bans this is about ignorant uneducated people not knowing what they are talking about. Goldens and small dogs actually account for more bites than that of all the dogs they want breed bans for. But as a previous person stated Mad Poodle Attacks Man doesn't really grab a headline but change that to Pit or Mastiff and now we are selling papers and feeding the frenzy of people who want breed bans. We should not have to defend a perfectly well behaved and socialized dogs because someone knows someone who knows someone who was attacked by one of these dogs. Most of this redderick is just ignorance. I have stopped being polite to these people who make comments about my dog and tell them where they can stick there ignorant uneducated comments. If you don't know my dog than you don't have the right to judge him.

sammiec
June 30th, 2004, 11:40 AM
What do you mean by this? Do you mean "trusted to an extent" with other dogs, or people??


Sorry, I should have really proof read before posting I had deleted part of a sentence... :o LOL!!
I was saying that they could be trusted to an extent with another dog, but only under supervision.

And that it's not a dog that you should buy for your 5 year old because many people buy Labs and Retreivers for their children and expect them to be the babysitter - these people usually don't know much about the breed, just that they are cute and cuddly. All I really ment to say was that the owner must be educated in the pit bull breed. I would have no problem leaving my child to play with a pit bull, like you said they are excellent dogs are wonderful companions - especially with children. But they (the dog and child) should always be supervised, regardless of the breed.

Karin
June 30th, 2004, 02:12 PM
*I have been trying to be good*


Before everyone's blood pressure elevates...remember school is out.

Stupid comments such as Southernphilly has made are just that...down right stupid & ignorant. An ill attempt for attention.

I have seen aggresive mix breeds and evil small breeds, when employed by the evil Vet we had a client who's Pit Bull Terrier pulled her 2 year old toddler daughter from the swimming pool she fell into unnoticed by her mom. This dog was adopted from our clinic two weeks before. He was found on the side of the road with old injuries, conductive to falling out of the back of a pick-up truck face first into the asphalt at a high rate of speed. He was brought to us with his jaw broken in three places along with other injuries and severe road rash. He also had sarcoptic mange and was heartworm +.
We dubbed him "Lucky" of course. Our clients fell in love with him as we did and assumed total responsibilty for his care. They are not a bit sorry for that decision.
"nuf said"

Narrow minded people are showing off their experience or I should say, the lack of....

glasslass
June 30th, 2004, 02:28 PM
The statistics on dog bites aren't fair either. I was bitten years ago by my dad's Border Collie/Australian Shep. mix. Because I had to go to the emerg. room, there was a record made of it and a count against the dog. Which was ridulous because my own toy poodle picked a fight and I jumped into the fray to rescue him. My own stupid fault but I'd do it again in a heartbeat! The only concession was we were allowed to quarantine him at home because he was a family pet in the same family as the victim. :(

Catt31
June 30th, 2004, 02:28 PM
Amen sisters!!!!!! Even the reaction I get about Brick from people on the street and people I work with that have never met him is alarming. He does have a Rotti head shape, and a smooth coat, so people automatically assume he is one of the 2 "bad" breeds. When I tell them what he is (Rotti/Shep), they shy away......even my Mom was leery before she met him. He is the biggest love and it really is sad that people are not mature enough to make a decision for themselves. And to be honest with you, I keep Brick away from the little yappy dogs at the park...not cuz of his behaviour, but THEIRS!! Who knows when one will come and start yipping at Brick, and Brick will lose his patience with them....then it will be my fault!! Forget that CRAP!!! The comments get even better when he is wearing his Gentle Leader....its amazing how many think its a muzzle!!! Man, how STUPID can you get!!! :mad:

PS. My dog bite was never registered, although I did go to a clinic and get a tetanus. And that was a pointer/lab cross, who is 13 years old, and belongs to my sister. I named him and practically raised this dog. He would NEVER bite on purpose, but I was just at the wrong place at the wrong time!! My fault, not Tye's!! :rolleyes:

Spoiled
June 30th, 2004, 04:50 PM
Do you mean in shock and therefore can't identify the breed?

Yes. It all happens so quickly, I don't think that you could identify the breed. When I was attacked by a dog that I knew, it happened so quickly that I wouldn't have a chance to figure out the breed if I didn't know him.

LavenderRott
June 30th, 2004, 05:49 PM
Besides, some 10 year old, riding his bike down the road, attacked by someone's loose dog probably doesn't know what the heck breed bit him either! Like I said, these "statistics" are highly unreliable, yet they are used to pass BSL!

deerclan
June 30th, 2004, 07:44 PM
here is a site that has statistics and a story with opinions

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/health/dangerousdogs/index.html

DeerClan

glasslass
June 30th, 2004, 08:59 PM
Courtney's mother sounds like a sensible lady! I feel for her grief and admire her for speaking out against the sensationalists! I remember our family cocker spaniel crying out in pain. When we rushed outside, we found my baby brother (sitting in one of those bouncy seat things suspended by a spring) holding onto her ear with a tight grip and the cocker crying while trying to get away. I'm still amazed she didn't bite him. :)

Luba
June 30th, 2004, 09:04 PM
Southern Philly is obviously a troll!

What would you like to eat troll, I"ll throw u a few scraps of maggot infested meat!

Spoiled
July 1st, 2004, 09:19 AM
The numbers donít lie.

Of the 37 troll bites on this forum so far this year, 19 have come from southernphilly, also known as a troll.

;)

Lucky Rescue
July 1st, 2004, 09:42 AM
Of the 37 troll bites on this forum so far this year, 19 have come from southernphilly, also known as a troll

I shouldn't laugh, but DANG! that's funneeeeee!:p

Luba
July 1st, 2004, 02:39 PM
LMAO Spoiled good one :D lol

Spoiled
July 1st, 2004, 05:49 PM
:D :D I was cracking my sides as I wrote that. :D

glasslass
July 1st, 2004, 07:23 PM
Troll bites! :eek: Southernphilly needs a muzzle! :D

Luba
July 1st, 2004, 07:24 PM
HAHAHAHAHA!

Do they make them for mouths that big??? :eek:

sammiec
July 1st, 2004, 07:28 PM
LMAO!!! Nasty, you guys are just nasty!!! VERY FUNNY!!! LOL! Speaking of trolls, has anyone seen Sammy King sign on??! LOL

Spoiled
July 1st, 2004, 09:20 PM
You'd probably have to get it costom made for a mouth that big! :p

Luba
July 1st, 2004, 09:48 PM
www.muzzlesrus.com


Quick someone take that domain!!!