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yes i am

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 12:38 PM
Wasnt gonna post my problem,cause i know i will just get negative reaction,yes i had a guy stay the night last week,so damien had to go to his crate[he was in my bed]well ever since that night damien cringes if i go to pet him,if i give him a toy he takes it right to his crate,the other night he was laying on floor beside the couch i was petting him and he growled,i talked to the gr dog lady she called two people she knows,opne is a trainer,they said they have no doubt it is because i did have a man in the house,she said if i cant fix this she will re-home him,but she said it can be fixed i just need to get it fixed now...................She also said she knows i have pampered him,spoiled him way to much,and need to get assertive and let him know i am in charge not him...Please i do not want to hear how i need to get rid of him,if it doesnt work out i will,but she said damien is a very smart dog i just need to be smarter........

Luba
June 24th, 2004, 12:46 PM
Question, did this male friend of yours like Damien?
Did he try to discipline him or yell at him? What type of interaction did the two have?

Karin
June 24th, 2004, 12:55 PM
Damien is still young. Work with him, lead with your head, not your heart.

There are facts of life he will have to adjust to whether it is at your home or another...I think he is still pushing your buttons and you are allowing it.
At 6 months he is still all puppy, you need to get AND keep control of any situation now because a year from now he will be a much larger dog...and still pushing your buttons if you let him.

Just my opinion.

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 12:58 PM
Funny you say that,it was my ex,here is what happend,damien was sleeping with me,about 11:00,my ex came over,me and damien went to the front door,my ex came in i took damien and made him go in his crate,he did not want to,my ex did not touch or pet him,then me and ex went to my room and shut the door,had a loud arguement,next morning i got up,kept the bedroom door shut,damien kept sniffing at door,when we got home that evening damien went to the bed and kept sniffing were my ex slept.damien wouldnt eat Nothingthat morning,ever since that night he will not let me pet him...................takes all his toys to his crate.cringes when i go to touch him,ears go back and then he growls,when i scolded him the other day for doing that he peed......

meowzart
June 24th, 2004, 01:08 PM
Have you been to puppy/obedience school??? If not you must RUN not walk to sign up now! I've read some of your other questions, and it's great that you are asking lots of questions and obviously want to do well with Damien. But - it will be very irresponsible not to get control of your dog's behavior now. He deserves a chance to be a great pet, but needs to be shown how by somebody in charge. That would be you. :)

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 01:30 PM
Karin you are so right..........I have been treating him more like a person then a pet,and he is a very smart little pup,he has taken over my apt....and i do need to fix it now........or we will not make it,tina[gsrd lady]told me he thinks i am his puppy playmate,not his master and when i greet him it should hi how are you good boy a little pet and that is it,we have been together since he was 7 weeks old,first two months i didnt work so we were always together,someone also told me he could be insecure cause of all the moving he has been through,got him in ohio moved to kentucky,moved from one place in kentucky to another,drove him here to phx,lived in a house,then got an apt,then took hin to the gsdr place,now he is back home again,he has been through alot..

Karin
June 24th, 2004, 01:35 PM
Funny you say that,it was my ex,here is what happend,damien was sleeping with me,about 11:00,my ex came over,me and damien went to the front door,my ex came in i took damien and made him go in his crate,he did not want to,my ex did not touch or pet him,then me and ex went to my room and shut the door,had a loud arguement,next morning i got up,kept the bedroom door shut,damien kept sniffing at door,when we got home that evening damien went to the bed and kept sniffing were my ex slept.damien wouldnt eat Nothingthat morning,ever since that night he will not let me pet him...................takes all his toys to his crate.cringes when i go to touch him,ears go back and then he growls,when i scolded him the other day for doing that he peed......

As with children, you should never argue in front of or in ear shot of your pet. Damien must have been very frustrated! (..and displaced) You took him from his comfort spot next to you, crated him and he had to hear obvious aggression towards you from the other room and could not get to you..
This is a very crucial learning age for him. No brownie points for you.
Next time leave Damien where he is and crate the ex.

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 01:40 PM
oh my god,i am laughing my ass off,people are wondering what the hell is going on in my office.i love it...........................................i will crate the ex next time...................

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 01:41 PM
How will i ever get damien to let me pet him like before..............

cutelittlemako
June 24th, 2004, 02:06 PM
If you treat your dog differently when you have company over your dog will start to think this is negative. You should not change his habits when something like this happens. If you let him sleep in your bed, do so all the time, if you don't want him to sleep in your bed, don't let him - but let him sleep beside you bed on a comfortable doggy bed. If you change his routine when you have visitors, he won't like it when you have people over, and i'm sure you don't want that.

Good Luck!

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 02:12 PM
you are right about that he loved sleeping in my bed,i am a bad mom i have changed so much in his life,poor thing,well my room is now gated off til he is older....and i am sure he was pissed getting kicked out of bed to another guy.............................

LavenderRott
June 24th, 2004, 02:24 PM
Since he hasn't decided that you are the alpha dog in your home, you may want to stop the sleeping in your bed. Make him a nice doggy bed on the floor next to the bed. Once you have his respect, then he may be on the bed if INVITED.

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 02:25 PM
I was thinking of doing that,but someone said i should treat my whole bedroom as my den and dont let him in there at all....

Luba
June 24th, 2004, 02:39 PM
P'd me off with what your x b/f did! Sounds like he's bit of an a'hole and maybe he has something to do with D's behaviour from when he was still with you as well.

I wouldn't let your b/f or ex b'f make ANY decisions about your puppy in YOUR home, that wasn't his place to do so and it was your place to tell him NOT to interfere like that!

So, I say the b'f was out of line!

Damien expected you to stand up for him and you didn't so he is upset with you and doesn't trust you.

Let him sleep in your room, a nice bed on the floor is just fine. :D

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 02:41 PM
ok! that made me feel better,yeah that is why he is an ex..............i will get damien a bed tonight after work,some fool actually approved me for a credit card,what better way to break it in,then with damien..........Yeah my ex is NOT an animal person,actually he is not even a persons person...........................

LavenderRott
June 24th, 2004, 02:41 PM
My Missy had some issues believing that I was the boss for a while. We made her sleep on the floor for a while and she got the hint. If sleeping NEXT to the bed doesn't help at all, then boot him out of your den.

Goldenmom
June 24th, 2004, 02:41 PM
Heidi, it best that you give the trainer a call that the GSD lady was talking to. You need to hear it from a professional and take in all he has to say. See if he will talk to you over the phone. ASAP. I told you this would happen and it did. My girls were not allowed on our bed until the age of 1 or when I was completely satisfied they knew I was boss, not them. You will go into your room some night, Damien will be on it and I can guarantee, you won't be sleeping in it, because he won't let you. This happens all the time and you need to fix is now! You shouldn't have put Damien in the crate when the male came. He saw that as he was bad and the male good. You really have to think about what you do before you do it. It may effect Damien and he doesn't need anymore problems than he already has. Do not for any reason bring any children into your home until Damien has settled.

Heather, Shelby, Lexi and Ricki

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 02:42 PM
yeah he will be on his new bed tonight,i hate not letting him sleep with me..................................so by my side will do til i get him under control............

Princesss04
June 24th, 2004, 02:59 PM
Why if your ex is such a creep did he end up in your bed and the dog in the cage. I think your dog is confussesd why you are letting this man that he hates take his place in your life. It will take time but it will get better. Do not treat him any differnat when company comes over becuase he will see them as a bad thing not a good. Good luck :D

Luba
June 24th, 2004, 03:17 PM
Heidi oh oh oh instead of ho ho ho!

If the man is a creep keep him with the creep pile and don't let him creep back into your life and bed!!

Poor Damien!

You may nead to keep Damien on his leash at night so that he doesn't jump up on your bed for the first little while. But he'll get used to it. Before you go to bed sit on the floor with him and give him some attention.

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 03:19 PM
Well this sucks,my vet just returned my call and said unless i get some quote'HARD TRAINING FOR THIS DOG' un quote i need to get him re-homed,see this is why i get so confused,he said i should not have to deal with this and i dont need this..uuuhhhhhhhhhh this sucks.............

Princesss04
June 24th, 2004, 03:22 PM
What did you call and tell your vet?

Luba
June 24th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Well its about consistency

Damien has a sensitive personality and the b/f thing telling him what to do in his own home and putting him in a cage with his mom not saying anythin about it, what would you do?

Don't worry Heidi oh oh oh I had an ex that was the same way...he's still an ex and I never let him near my dog after I found out what he was like.

I fear that he may have hit my little Rusty and that was enough for me!

Anyway, you need professional assistance and advise, as Heather has mentoned and others including me many times. You had better get on it missy or things will be worse in no time!

Goldenmom
June 24th, 2004, 03:31 PM
Heidi, what did you say to the vet? Does the vet recommend anyone to you? They should be providing you with a list of someone that can help you. Obedience school in your area?

Heather

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 03:33 PM
To be honest with you i never knew how smart they are,did not really think putting him in crate,cause someone came over would piss him off like this,he is the smartest,most stubborn dog i have ever seen,my gsdr lady cant believe he would continue on for over a week acting like this,i wish someone could witness this,cause it is un believeable to me and her...I have never seen anything like this,so does this dog even love me is my question???Now that the vet said that i dont know what i am gonna do,i need one on one training in my apt for this,and the guy my vet recommeneded is 300.00 i do not have that kind of money..

Goldenmom
June 24th, 2004, 03:36 PM
Call the guy anyway. Explain the situation etc. He will give you a good idea of what it will all involve. He may even take a payment plan? Won't hurt to call him. Please do it.

Heather

Princesss04
June 24th, 2004, 03:38 PM
Honestly girl if you are going to keep the dog than you need to get help somewhere somehow. This is not fair for you or your dog! :)

LavenderRott
June 24th, 2004, 03:40 PM
Dogs don't have human emotions. Your dog is not jealous, doesn't hate you, isn't mad at you.

If you can't afford a dog trainer then you need to start looking on line for some help. I will see if I can find you a couple of good links. (By help, I don't mean someone who will tell you everything will be ok.)

To be very honest, you need to stop and give the next question some SERIOUS thought. Are you willing to do what it takes to make this dog an asset to society instead of a menace? I am talking about TIME and DILIGENCE, not so much money.

Don't take this wrong, as I don't mean to sound mean or negative, but I will say that if you didn't answer yes to that question, you need to give up the dog. The issues that you are having now are going to get MUCH worse if you don't put your foot down and walk the walk. No excuses. Your dog has the potential to be a dog bite statistic as it stands right now.

Goldenmom
June 24th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Heidi is babying this dog and needs to be firm, but loving. This is what happens when you "spoil" a big dog. They can walk all over you and before you know it, they are biters. Heidi, do you have a library around there? There are so many great books out there, that explain all this and step by step. But you need to WANT to do this, not just say ok, I'll try it. Think of it this way.... If you don't do it, he will have to go. Thats it, thats all. You want to be able to feel safe around your dog, as do others.

Heather

Luba
June 24th, 2004, 03:51 PM
Well said Heather

but LavR I disagree dogs do have emotions, and many of them replicate ours.
Please if you are interested peak at the link below and have a little read.

http://www.ivillage.com/pets/vet/articles/0,,167006_420357,00.html?arrivalSA=1&cobrandRef=0&arrival_freqCap=1&pba=adid=9208033

This is just one article about it LavR it's very very facinating...


pets often seem to soak up angry, sad or fearful feelings from family members who are experiencing tension or conflict over issues that have nothing to do with the animal. Frequent arguments in the home are especially stressful for a pet, who may react with irritability or fear. Emotional tensions in particular may affect health problems that have either a behavioral component (such as increased aggressiveness, destructiveness or extreme restlessness) or a nervous component (such as irritated skin, ears, bladder and the like). Just as a pet might react to losses, an emotionally stressed animal with a predisposition to skin or bladder problems, for example, might scratch or urinate still more, further irritating the tissues and setting up the conditions for a vicious circle.

Heather MH
June 24th, 2004, 03:54 PM
Can I make a suggestion?

When we brought home our two puupies we said NO BED no way. Well about a month later when they had learned to play with our heart strings guess what they were in our bed. We soon found all the reasons why we shouldn't do this, not that we had behaviour problems I just agreed with the reasons people presented as to why they shouldn't sleep in bed. Not to mention how much sleep I was loosing by sleeping with 2 puppies. Anyway can you move his crate in your room at night. That is what we did it was a lot of work moving them back and forth but it really worked. That way they couldn't jump up on the bed once we were asleep. They now love it and even when invited in bed they don't stay to long as they prefer to sleep in there crates.

Just thought that might help. Puppies take so much time. I remeber thinking people where crazy with all the suggestions. I mean what harm could sleeping on the bed really do??? Won't they just love me more, and listen better because of this??? But what a difference it makes to follow all the little rules, we have two very well trained, adjusted, and happy puppies. :D
And much thanks to all the help I received from the people on this board. Couldn't have done it with out you ladies. :D ;) :D

glasslass
June 24th, 2004, 04:15 PM
I don't know if dogs put it together this way or not, but he maybe he realizes a male first fought with you and then won. He's just trying the same technique. People training? :rolleyes:

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 04:18 PM
Absolutley will give time and effort,i am gonna call him and see what we can do,and yes i have way spoiled this dog with lots af attention and stuff,i never knew it could lead to this,i thought it was a good thing,i just ordered a video and book about wolves in the pack from amazon,i know that isnt gonna solve problem,just wanted to see how they act in the wild

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 04:24 PM
I know i always wanted a dog to sleep in my bed,i will get a bed for him to have by mine,i love him dearly and know if i dont do something he is gonna have to go,this is really serious as i have learned.................never really knew how smart they are..

LavenderRott
June 24th, 2004, 04:24 PM
Here is a good link on NILIF.

link (http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm) It is a good start.

The books and videos you ordered may not help you as much as you would like.

Jean Donaldson is an excellent source for dog behavior issues. I recommend you get "Culture Clash" and "Mine".

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 04:26 PM
Iknow they wont,just curious to see pack animals in the wild..

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 04:27 PM
Luba that was a good article,he does seem nervous would describe it best............

heidiho
June 24th, 2004, 04:31 PM
Lr i printed a bunch of stuff from there to take home,another good link.........

Luba
June 24th, 2004, 04:46 PM
Ok u people stop confusing it!

It's LR for LuckyRescue and LavR for LavenderRott!

Or I'll spank u all ;)

Unless u like that sorta thing then I'm just gonna turn and run away like a kid running from the cooties lmfho!

Spoiled
June 24th, 2004, 09:24 PM
Well said Heather

but LavR I disagree dogs do have emotions, and many of them replicate ours.
Please if you are interested peak at the link below and have a little read.

http://www.ivillage.com/pets/vet/articles/0,,167006_420357,00.html?arrivalSA=1&cobrandRef=0&arrival_freqCap=1&pba=adid=9208033

This is just one article about it LavR it's very very facinating...


pets often seem to soak up angry, sad or fearful feelings from family members who are experiencing tension or conflict over issues that have nothing to do with the animal. Frequent arguments in the home are especially stressful for a pet, who may react with irritability or fear. Emotional tensions in particular may affect health problems that have either a behavioral component (such as increased aggressiveness, destructiveness or extreme restlessness) or a nervous component (such as irritated skin, ears, bladder and the like). Just as a pet might react to losses, an emotionally stressed animal with a predisposition to skin or bladder problems, for example, might scratch or urinate still more, further irritating the tissues and setting up the conditions for a vicious circle.

I totaly agree. If one of us gets angry, Bentley's barking and growling like crazy. He sences it. :cool:

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 11:29 AM
I totally believe they pick up on our feelings also,that is why i said does he even love me,if he did why would he do this..

LavenderRott
June 25th, 2004, 11:33 AM
I don't doubt for a second that dogs don't pick up on our emotions. Missy always greets me at the door with her whole body wagging and a bone or toy in her mouth. But I don't think that they feel emotions like people do.

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 11:38 AM
I dont even get that anymore from him,when i let him out of crate in the morning i have to be quick and get a pet in cause in about 5 minutes he is cringing again,i have some serious decisions to make this weekend,i dont know if i can fiz this,and after what the vet said i just dont know.Will i always trust damien not to have a moment where i pet him a certain way and he doesnt bite or growl??The answer is no,to me this is something that will always be right beneath the surface................

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 11:40 AM
when i let him out of crate in the morning

Why is he still in the crate at night?

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 11:44 AM
are we chasing tails again? There seems to be MUCH more to this story... did you ex ever strike Damien at all when he was little?

cutelittlemako
June 25th, 2004, 11:44 AM
Heidi, can you do me a favor and read "Bones would rain from the sky" by Suzanne Clothier. I've recommended this book to you before, so you might have already read it. It's a great book about communication with dogs. It adresses the issue of dogs that show signs of aggressivity towards their owners. It's a fantastic book. It might not fix your problem, but it might give you some insight on the situation!

I wish you all the luck in the world! I honestly don't think that you have to give that dog up! Especially not if you love him the way you do.

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 11:49 AM
No way,he was never hit,i can tell you one thing,when we went to look at the litter there were 2 left,the other one came right to me and sat on my lap,damien would not come to me,i called him over and over to come he wouldnt,but my fiance wanted him,so we picked him..Damien is sleeping in crate because i let him sleep with me and i sense he is trying to take over bed also,when he gets in bed he goes right to where i lay,i tell him to move,he wont,just stares at me,i have to grab collar and get him off bed,let me tell you this dog is like nothing i have ever seen,i am gonna get him his own bed for room,but before i do,i need to really know that this problem can be fixed with him,or does he need to be re-homed,i just dont know at this moment,my heart says no,he belongs with me,my gut says i cant provide the proper trainging my vet says he needs..........

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 11:51 AM
Honestly to me damien seems uncomfortable, worried,from 7 weeks old he got nothing but attention,love and all my time.............

cutelittlemako
June 25th, 2004, 12:12 PM
But Heidi, you can't go back and forth with the pup, it's just making the situation worse. If you do give him up, don't look back, don't go visiting him again - even if you can. You need to make a move and make it your final move. If you keep him keep him and don't review your decision but if you give him up, bring him to the GSD rescue place and don't go there ever again. This dog will not "bounce back" if he is kept on his toes about his position in your life all the time. After two days with the other dogs I'm sure he forgets about you (it's sad, but that's reality), but if you show up the 3rd day, he's going be be miserable and confused again.

Just make the best decision for your dog.

Lucky Rescue
June 25th, 2004, 12:15 PM
Heidi - Damien is in a cage 16+ hours out of every 24??

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 12:39 PM
No he is at my friends house mon-fri while i am at work,i take him every morning and pick him up after work.I know this is it,and saying he will forget about me in three days actually makes me feel better,and i have already thought about all that,and no i cant go through that again,if i did take him i will not go visit,would be to heartbreaking for me,i just see all the good things i have taught him and think WHY did this have to happen,i just am ripped in two right now...

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 12:42 PM
Heidi, a couple questions. The GSD Recue lady? Will she foster him until she finds a forever home? Will she work with his aggression while in her care?

Heather

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 12:45 PM
Heidi keep him OUT of that crate!!!

I don't care if you got money for a dog bed or not. Let him sleep on the floor beside your bed. I suggested this to you before, get a blanket and put it on the floor by your bed. Put his leash on him and tell him to lay down...give him some attention maybe even a little treat. If he gets up on the bed you have access to the leash and you guide him to the blanket.

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 12:47 PM
Heidi, in past pictures I have seen your crate and there is a pillow or something in there. Take it out and put it beside your bed. End of story.... That is HIS blanket and HIS bed.

Heather

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 12:52 PM
Yes,she knows all about it,she knows my vet also..This lady takes no crap from her fosters,she said sat night is when her boyfriend comes over all other nights the dogs can sleep in her room or bed,but on sat. they know they cannnot and she has no problems witth them...She said she would take him no problem at all,she said whatever i want is fine with her,since that time when i was there and kodiak[gsd r dog] tried to bite her,she has had no other problems with him...My thing is this i am so stressed out,upset,depressed,and aggravated right now that i just cant live like this,i tried some other alpha things last night,nothing........I just cant keep looking at him i love him so much it breaks my heart when i am with him.I KNOW my dog like no one else does,and i know bottom line is gonna be him going to a different home,all signs point that way,i just have to get over my needs and get his taken care of, i know in the long run it is the right thing to do,but i just look at him and feel all the love i have for him and it rips my heart out............................................... .................................................. ...................

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 12:53 PM
Luba i will let him sleep in room,i know.........

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 01:15 PM
i need to really know that this problem can be fixed with him,or does he need to be re-homed,i just dont know at this moment,my heart says no,he belongs with me,my gut says i cant provide the proper trainging my vet says he needs..........

HIEDI - PLEASE READ THE QUOTE ABOVE!!! your gut says that you can't provide the proper training that he needs!!! You said it yourself, it's right there, and no one said it for you!!! You need to stop being selfish and think about this dog for a change.

Damien can be trained. I don't think you're the person to do it. The aggression that he is showing is brought on by you. He doesn't see you as the leader and he is bossing you around everyday, and you let him. HE NEEDS A PROFESSIONAL TRAINER!!! Have you investigated classes for you guys to go to together - he would learn that you are the boss, not him...
This is going to get MUCH worse before it gets better. SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP IMMEDIATELY, Damien is the only one that is surrfering from this. Because if you don't help the aggression will worsen to the point that he could have to be PST!! Think about him!!!

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 01:32 PM
I am thinking about him,do you really believe he will forget about me and move on??? That is a concern,if i know he will be fine,i can deal a little better with it...I also do believe he has outwitted me and i might be the wrong person for him....If i had the money needed for a good trainer i would,i do want what is best for him not me,i will be sad beyond belief,but i already told myself if i cant have him i dont want another dog,i will have to get a kitten to take his place,i want and need a pet.Someday i will get another gsd,that is a great breed,i just think damien had issues from the get go,should of known when we went and looked at him and he would not come to us....I know how it felt when i took him last time and the pain was unbeliveable,cant imagine that i will have to go through that again...........................

LavenderRott
June 25th, 2004, 01:34 PM
Look, I will put this as simply and politely as I know how. As I see it, you have 3 options:

1. Get off your computer chair, stop looking at the dog and TRAIN it. Everyone here has given you good places to start and excellent resources.

2. Rehome this dog and LEAVE it there. Bouncing it in and out of homes is NOT good for any dog.

3. Put the dog to sleep.

This dog is a dogbite waiting to happen. We have been friendly and helpful and so far you have whined and cried. When your dog if 2 years old and has all the power of the police dog that they use to subdue some thug who shot his mother, you are going to have MAJOR problems that no amount of work is going to be able to overcome.

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 01:38 PM
I am thinking about him,do you really believe he will forget about me and move on??? .......I know how it felt when i took him last time and the pain was unbeliveable,cant imagine that i will have to go through that again...........................

Okay Hiedi, now read that quote. There sure are alot of "me" and "I" in that for someone that is thinking about the dog. My dad had a dog, and I would only visit him once every couple of months and he remembered me until they day he passed away. You can say that it's all about Damien, but read what you wrote, it not!!! You've got to help both of you!!!

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 01:39 PM
I am at work,yes every morning every night i have been working on this,so dont talk to me like i am not trying i dont need that sh^% today,i know what is going on in my home,maybe i just need to vent this out a littel bit,please dont respond if you are jump on my as%&.........I am not here to get critized,i know what i need and am going to do,good day........................

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 01:41 PM
I do admit it is about me alot also,i will miss him so much i cant even imagine,but in the end the decsion will be about what is best for HIM.......................................I am not that selfish...........

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 01:42 PM
LavR has an excellent post, and here we are as idiots (no offence to anyone that's posting here), but we're STILL trying to help you and you could give a rats arse. You are only thinking of you! I am just waiting for the Monday morning you go to "work" and come on here saying that Damien bit someone, but YOU can't handle the pain it's going to cause when YOU have to put him down. Heidi, quit wasting all of our time. Do your dog a favour. TRAIN HIM or PLACE HIM IN A NEW HOME!

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 01:43 PM
QUIT reading the post if you dont like it,you go through something like this and tell me if you arent a bit upset........................And for everyone else that is sick of it,QUIT READING THE POST AND WRITING...........

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 01:44 PM
i THINK YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF WASTING YOUR TIME NOT ME...............

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 01:45 PM
Heidi, it won't be easy to let him go. You are absolutely right. But think of it as doing it for HIM, not you. When I foster dogs and I have had them for be it one week or 3 months, it is extremely hard for me to let them go out the door to their forever homes. I usually cry for a couple days. But you know what? Better for my heart to be broken than theirs. They are going onto a new life, where they will be loved and cared for, just as much as I did. This is the ultimate reward for taking care of these animals. My heart will mend, theirs won't.

I am afraid what will happen with Damien is he WILL bite and then the authorities will get involved and you don't want to see that happen. Take him to the rescue lady and don't go visit for a couple months. Sure you can call and keep updated on him, but don't go and see him. Its not good for your or him.

Remember, your heart will mend, believe me.....

Heather

Lucky Rescue
June 25th, 2004, 01:47 PM
Look, I will put this as simply and politely as I know how. As I see it, you have 3 options:

1. Get off your computer chair, stop looking at the dog and TRAIN it. Everyone here has given you good places to start and excellent resources.

2. Rehome this dog and LEAVE it there. Bouncing it in and out of homes is NOT good for any dog.

3. Put the dog to sleep.

This dog is a dogbite waiting to happen. We have been friendly and helpful and so far you have whined and cried. When your dog if 2 years old and has all the power of the police dog that they use to subdue some thug who shot his mother, you are going to have MAJOR problems that no amount of work is going to be able to overcome.

Agree with everything.

LavenderRott
June 25th, 2004, 01:48 PM
Young lady,

I spend my time fighting Breed Specific Legislation so that you have the right to have a powerful untrained dog in your home.

We have tried being nice. We have tried giving you direction to where to go to look for help. We have told you what books to read to get some insight as to how your dog thinks.

WE keep coming back here to see if that light has come on in your head and to see if you are going to do right by this dog, or do we need to be prepared to fight the fight in AZ, when your dog bites a kid.

And don't you for one second think that I don't have a clue as to what I am talking about. I put MY dog down when it was evident that the aggression issues that he had were more then I could handle. So don't think for one second anyone is taking this dogs life lightly.

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 01:48 PM
Heidi

I know how hard this is for you, you do love him but maybe he is going to be a difficult boy to train. If he is more difficult, then maybe someone with experience with the breed and his behaviour problems would be better suited to care for him. You owe it to Damien to let him have a happy life.

As LavR has pointed out, he is a bite waiting to happen. It would be a dreadful shame that he would bite someone because you didn't look out for his and societies best interest.

I KNOW you think nobody could love him like you can. BUT think of all the wonderful dog people you have met on here. I bet if any of us lived close to you and offered to take him you wouldn't feel so bad right?

Well just think about that, there are many of us that love dogs like you do and have experience, time and ability to train him properly.

Don't target your anxiety of this situation on these very people that are wanting to help and give sound and logical advise to you. You targeted me before and it was unfounded.

I always wanted to ask you this, but why did you name him Damien? Or did your ex bf name him that and why? Just curious!

Sometimes we must think of the future. The longer you wait and the older he gets the more difficult it will be to break him of bad habits and correct behaviour.

I know of dogs Sadies' age, puppies having been pts because they bite..and not puppy bites vicious attack bites!

Like a child with a behaviour problem, structure is important. To me it doesn't seem that you can provide that to him.

UNTIL you get him out of your home, please don't let the ex come over and torment Damien. If you choose to let that man back into your life, that is your business but it looks like it's a bad deal for Damien.

We've been down this road before, advising you and such. As you see we still care...however like the boy that cried wolf one too many times. How long do you think it's going to last? I'm sure many of us cringe going to your new threads/topics hoping not to see something horrid like Damien has lunged at your face or some child.....this is in the cards. Don't play them or him that way!

Make the call, today and stick to your decision (please).

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 01:49 PM
Sammiec and others....

You can just imagine that heartache that Heidi is going through here. No matter who it is better for, it still hurts. Try fostering for awhile.... I know what she is going through, and its not nice. To make the decision to give your dog up, after having him for so long as a pup, that must be heartbreaking. What Heidi needs to do is to think of Damien here and do whats best for him. Its not easy.... I see a cry for help here, nothing more. I think in her mind she has made the decision, however, I think she is on here crying out for some sympathy as to what she is feeling.

We don't want to get into another battle here....

Heather

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 01:49 PM
Excellent post Goldenmom...

And Hiedi, you don't have to lash out and freak out on me. You're upset because you know that we're right. We are going through this with you because this issue consumes this whole board. Listen to Goldenmom, she knows what she's talking about.

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 01:53 PM
Sammiec and others....

You can just imagine that heartache that Heidi is going through here. No matter who it is better for, it still hurts. Try fostering for awhile.... I know what she is going through, and its not nice. To make the decision to give your dog up, after having him for so long as a pup, that must be heartbreaking. What Heidi needs to do is to think of Damien here and do whats best for him. Its not easy.... I see a cry for help here, nothing more. I think in her mind she has made the decision, however, I think she is on here crying out for some sympathy as to what she is feeling.

We don't want to get into another battle here....

Heather

Thanks for the loving word Goldenmom, but if you read what I posted earlier I stressed that it's VERY important that she trained Damien, she said that she can't afford it, therefore we move onto the next logical step. Please don't act as if you are the only two people in the world that have lost or given up a pet. Most of us have all had that "duty" before.

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 01:59 PM
Thanks for the loving word Goldenmom, but if you read what I posted earlier I stressed that it's VERY important that she trained Damien, she said that she can't afford it, therefore we move onto the next logical step. Please don't act as if you are the only two people in the world that have lost or given up a pet. Most of us have all had that "duty" before.


What bothers me here is that people are so quick to say "get rid of him, find him a new home etc." Yes, she does need to do that, no doubt about it, however, what I am saying is that she is hurting, just like each and everyone of us would in the same situation. For those of you that have not had to do that, the above post was for them. It appears so easy to say.....

Heather

cutelittlemako
June 25th, 2004, 02:05 PM
QUIT reading the post if you dont like it,you go through something like this and tell me if you arent a bit upset........................And for everyone else that is sick of it,QUIT READING THE POST AND WRITING...........

I seriously hope you don't think you're the only person around here that has ever had to deal with a dog's behavior problem. I haven't, but from the other (knowledgeable) people's responses, they seem to know what they are talking about. The advice they gave can come from nowhere elso other than experience.

Furthermore, I am tired of reading your repeating posts, but I am worried sick about your dog. And I think everyone here is as well and that is what keeps them coming back.

If you don't want an honest answer and want to be told that you are right and that you are doing everything you are supposed to do, you should have a discussion with a mirror or something, i'm sure it would be understanding and it would agree with you 100%. When you come to a post like this you can't expect people to always agree with what you say and to keep quiet about things that they disaprove of.

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 02:05 PM
What bothers me here is that people are so quick to say "get rid of him, find him a new home etc." Yes, she does need to do that, no doubt about it, however, what I am saying is that she is hurting, just like each and everyone of us would in the same situation. For those of you that have not had to do that, the above post was for them. It appears so easy to say.....

Heather

I'm sorry Goldenmom, but I've only been here for a couple of months now, and well.. "it appears so easy to say" that we've been talking about this FOREVER, with NO positive change. It might just be me, but I don't think people we that quick to suggest cutting your loses and getting rid of the dog when this posting began forever ago!

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 02:09 PM
I'm sure Heidi was hoping for this to get better. It is just Heidi and Damien in her house and when Heidi gives up Damien, its just her. That must be hard to take. Some people cling to their animals for love and affection and think this is the case. It appears that this is very hard for Heidi to do. Once she makes that giant leap, she will understand that it was for the best. She just needs to make that leap (and soon!)

Heather

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 02:31 PM
Heidi could always get a cat ;)

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 02:31 PM
Or a pet rock..... :)

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 02:33 PM
Goldenmom let me just say i have been through alot of heartbreak type things,but this is gonna be this will be the worst,the little cute things he does remembering him when he was 7 weeks old and just took him home...I know everyone thinks i want what is best for me,NO idont,i know what an unbeliveabley smart dog i have ,and i want that to be put to postive use and if i cant provide it i want him to go where someone can..................So yeah i have every right to be unsure and selfish,i love this dog alot...............

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 02:35 PM
Smmiec,if you are sick of me,GO AWAY,if i annoy you GO AWAY,when i first gave him up,this problem never showed,i had no idea at all he would get this bad,i am so happy you have never had to go through something like this,when you do,YOU LET ME KNOW HOW EASY IT WAS FOR YOU,,

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 02:37 PM
Golden you are very right ,couldnt said it better myslef,and luba you are right also,i will defnitley get a kitten or cat..........

Lucky Rescue
June 25th, 2004, 02:39 PM
I have fostered dogs and then given them up to new homes. One of them I had for 3 months and loved dearly. I shed many tears when she left.

But I KNEW I was doing what was right for those dogs, and was sending them to homes where they would get what I couldn't give them. Not easy, but necessary sometimes.

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 02:46 PM
Smmiec,if you are sick of me,GO AWAY,if i annoy you GO AWAY,when i first gave him up,this problem never showed,i had no idea at all he would get this bad,i am so happy you have never had to go through something like this,when you do,YOU LET ME KNOW HOW EASY IT WAS FOR YOU,,

Gimme a break lady! I've been very nice to you in many instances, just as everyone else here has. WE CARE ABOUT YOUR DOG. I have been offering you advice on numerous posts. I have been nice about it and I have been rude about it, it seems neither methods get through to you!!! But you have to face the facts! YOU POSTED THAT YOU CANNOT AFFORD TO GIVE DAMIEN THE TRAINING THAT HE NEEDS. Do you want us to tell you what you want to hear? There's nothing wrong with Damien, that's just how puppies behave, don't worry it'll get better! - then you're in the wrong board. This is a pet board, people here are concerned about pets! That's why I continue to write, that's why were are still trying... you're going in the wrong direction, and when Damien bites and the authorities come take him away and you can't do anything about it, see how upset you are then.... Sorry, but the truth hurts.

If I am out of line, please someone tell me... and not you heidi, we know what you'll say.

Princesss04
June 25th, 2004, 02:46 PM
If you are going to get a kitten you need to get two of them so while you are at work they will have someone to play with and sleep with. If you do not want two cats than you should get an older cat because they do a little better on their own. I mean they still like to have someone to play with but they can occupy themself a lot better than a kitten. I think that a kitten or a cat would be a wonderful pet for you to get. Will the lady at the GSD Rescue place take him back? I think he is a wonderful dog but not for you. I do not think that it is all your fault or his. I just think that he needs to have more help than what you can give him. I know that this is hard I understand. And I am not going to yell at you. I want you to know that you can do this and you will get over him soon. I think you should have a cat ready that you can pick up when you drop him off so that you are not alone when you get home. A cat is a animal that you can let sleep with you and they can run around the house. And there are so many in shelters that NEED good homes. You would be saving their life. You would help them as much as they would help you. I think your dog is better off somewhere else not because you do not love him, but he needs something more than you can give. When you do drop him off leave him there do not go back on the weeks. He will play with the dogs be in Heaven and (not to be mean) but forget all about you and I know that makes it easier on you, and you know that he will be taken care of so let him go it is time. Go to www.petfinder.com and find you a pretty little baby that you can take care of and love and let her love you~! :D Best wishes you are in my thoughts and prayers! :D

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 02:51 PM
You know,i know time heals all,i just wish this never happened,maybe i should of left him there the first time,but i didnt,and if i had any inlking that this would of happend i would of,i already left her a message and said if i can bring him tonight or tomorrow,i dont want to stay and talk,i will open the car door let him out and i am leaving..I am not gonna be strong enough to stay there and see him,i wll not visit,if he gets re-homed maybe then i can see him and his new home if they allow me to,but while he is there i will Not VISIT,i think he would get confused and run to my car like last time to get in,that would kill me....I know i have been saying alot here,but until something like this happens to you,you have NO idea how painful it is,just to think i will probably never get to see him again....................

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 02:53 PM
Damien will be fine Heidi, it's you that needs to figure out what to do with your energy when he's gone. Thats why I suggested a cat or two ;) yes to keep one another company as stated.

Sometimes we lash out at people when we are hurting, realizing it is the key to preventing it from happening again.

I think we should take a breather and just relax!

Heidi you're gonna be fine! ;)

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 02:54 PM
I dont apprceciate your comment a pet rock,i dont find it funny ,that is the sh%^ i am talking about that is un necassary,you have no idea how i have tried,no i dont want people to say it will all be ok,but i dont need t o be put down by you,at least i have tried,i thought i did the right thing,so i was wrong.I will now pay for being wrong............

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 02:56 PM
LOL!!! Heidi, If you can put up with us getting upset when we repeat our advice, you'll do just fine. Like you said you have had to do many hard things before, you'll be just fine.

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 02:59 PM
Heidi, I agree the pet rock comment was uncalled for...but sometimes you provoke situations and get people just as mad as you feel yourself.

Things you have said about me needing a good such and such. You're not the only one who dislikes comments, most of us do. It's how you handle them and deal with them that enriches your life.

You can either make a bad situation worse or a bad situation better. Words are powerful! Myself I let things slide off my shoulders and back because at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter!

So, should we all say enough of the sarcasm and poor choice of language although not completely spelled out the intention is the same?

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 03:00 PM
I dont apprceciate your comment a pet rock,i dont find it funny ,that is the sh%^ i am talking about that is un necassary,you have no idea how i have tried,no i dont want people to say it will all be ok,but i dont need t o be put down by you,at least i have tried,i thought i did the right thing,so i was wrong.I will now pay for being wrong............

You're right that comment was out of line. I just get frustrated easily as you do (with your swearing). But please, we know you have tried, but I can't stress enough how important the training is.
1) It will train him that you're the boss
2) He will be mentally sitmulated, and physical work too
3) It will curb some of his "bad" habits
4) It will teach you what you have to do to be in control
5) It will teach you how to say no to him

should I keep going? I get upset because you outright said that you can't afford the training - that's the first step to a healthy pet - both physically and mentally. Please, would your friend's dad that was going to help you with the dog walker help you with training?

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 03:00 PM
Princess and Luba thank you,i have every plans on getting a cat or kitten from the shelter out here,and you are so right,i cant see walking in the door to an empty apt...I already did figure two would be a good idea,so they have each other,not sure what the way is to housebreak a kitten???Meaning clawing furniture and the litter box?? God i just wish this didnt turn out like this,i never thought he would have such issues....And you are also right i need a pet i can smother with attention[well not smother] but one that can sleep in my bed and i can play with.................I cant describe how sad i am,he was MY boy......................We would go everywhere together.........Neighbors all knew us,this one lady would always say YOU AND THAT DAMN DOG'...................

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 03:04 PM
I am sure he would, but i had him help me pay for the emergency room when i took him,and i dont want to ask for help,i need to be able to have a pet i can support myself,i know damien pretty well,and i honestly will never be able to say 100 percent that i will trust him,i have lost the trust in him that i need to have there,and before he does get older i would rather him learn to adjust now while he is young and at a adoptable age that people like..........

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 03:05 PM
So I bet you are worried about what your neighbours will say huh?

Don't worry, forget about it and what they say. Just tell them that Damien is too smart to be a family pet and he's gone off to persue a career. ;)

As for the cats, lets get Damien's situation settled first okey dokey.

Why did u call him Damien?

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 03:09 PM
I am sure he would, but i had him help me pay for the emergency room when i took him,and i dont want to ask for help,i need to be able to have a pet i can support myself,i know damien pretty well,and i honestly will never be able to say 100 percent that i will trust him,i have lost the trust in him that i need to have there,and before he does get older i would rather him learn to adjust now while he is young and at a adoptable age that people like..........

How can he "learn to adjust"?

Was the emergency room to do with Damien?

You can't trust him? Was that because of the other day?

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 03:10 PM
I have fostered dogs and then given them up to new homes. One of them I had for 3 months and loved dearly. I shed many tears when she left.

But I KNEW I was doing what was right for those dogs, and was sending them to homes where they would get what I couldn't give them. Not easy, but necessary sometimes.


Very well put! I agree 100%. I like the "necessary sometimes"

Heather

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 03:13 PM
Heidi, I have posted about this book before, but I don't think it was on one of your threads... it's called Good Onwers, Great Dogs
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0446516759/104-7869737-2597517?v=glance

if you can't afford training, there is basic traing methods in there, the books like 15 bucks (US) It's excellent.

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 03:15 PM
I am going to disagree with a couple people here. Heidi should NOT get 2 kittens. Why? Because they are expensive to spay/neuter and because they will do damage to the furniture. Heidi needs one cat to start and then maybe another later. See how one does Heidi, ok? I really think you will enjoy a cat and you can surely find one that is very affectionate and keeps you company.

Heather

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 03:16 PM
Luba that is to weird you said that,cause everyone at work always asks about him,well i am not telling people i work with,cause i dont want to hear there crap,very gossipy here..I just always loved that name,i think it means sweet and harmless,how funny is that......By saying about the adjusting i just think while he is only 6 months old it will be easier for him,than if i was to keep him and he is a year old and we are more attached.....

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 03:18 PM
Heidi, I have posted about this book before, but I don't think it was on one of your threads... it's called Good Onwers, Great Dogs
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0446516759/104-7869737-2597517?v=glance

if you can't afford training, there is basic traing methods in there, the books like 15 bucks (US) It's excellent.


I have that book here at home and I agree, it is a great book! Its obviously too late for Heidi to read this book, as she has made the decision to give Damien to rescue.

Heather

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 03:19 PM
I am telling you i have read soooooo much on tips about training,i honestly believe i have lost damiens respect in that aspect and i have come to see we are not improving we are getting more problems showing up,i appreciate the thought though..........I just think it is now or never,being with him each day makes it harder and harder...Goldenmom i think when you get one from a shelter here they are spayed first[i will be getting a female] but i see your point about the money thing..

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 03:20 PM
I agree - one cat first.. and when you get one from the shelter they can be declawed already, so that would save the couch!!!

glasslass
June 25th, 2004, 03:24 PM
Dogs do remember and mourn. It's been almost a year since our friend John died. Den-Den still won't go into his room and is just recently beginning to be his old self again. It's not about you feeling better. It's about facing reality as to what's best for Damien and what you're doing to him. :(

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 03:31 PM
So are you saying damien will be in mourning that long??I think what will ease my mind is knowing he is fine and not sad ...

sammiec
June 25th, 2004, 03:37 PM
So are you saying damien will be in mourning that long??I think what will ease my mind is knowing he is fine and not sad ...

I don't think that Damien would blame you for giving him up. After seeing those photos of him jumping and playing with those other dogs..... I think he would remember you but he would be SOOOO happy if he could do that ALL day long every day, wouldn't you!?!?

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 03:37 PM
I think i am gonna breakdown,it is taking everything i have got,not to start losing it,and have all the tears pour out here at work............

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 03:37 PM
Heidi, every dog is different. Some will be having so much fun where they are, that they will forget. Damien is still a pup, so therefore, I think that he will be just fine adjusting to a new environment. We just had a 12-yr old foster lab here and this guy would adjust to anywhere, as long as he was loved and cared for.

Don't worry about Damien, he will do just fine throughout this.

Heather

Goldenmom
June 25th, 2004, 03:39 PM
I think i am gonna breakdown,it is taking everything i have got,not to start losing it,and have all the tears pour out here at work............


Heidi, this is all normal. You will feel like this for some time. Keep yourself busy. Go to the Humane Society this weekend and find a cat or older kitten. I agree that when I saw the pictures of Damien running with all the other dogs... well, this is what being a dog is all about and who wouldn't want that!

Heather

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 03:49 PM
I also feel like i am betraying him,like that is his apt. to, iknow that sounds crazy,but that is how i feel.I will be at shelters all weekend,looking,my friends daughter is gonna stay the night with me tomorrow,so i will take her to go look at kittens,she is 10 so she will like that,i am also not gonna bring him home tonight,i dont think i can deal with it,he is gonna stay with my friend tonight i will take him in the morning to the shelter,the longer i am with him the harder it will be to let him go...............

Princesss04
June 25th, 2004, 04:03 PM
Heidi I am SO PROUD of you. I know this is so hard but you are doing the right thing. Just hang in there. Cats for the most part pick up really fast on the liter thing. Are you wanting a kitten or and older cat. If you get an older cat most of the time they are liter trainned already! That will help you out. This is hard but it will get better. You have been a good mommie and this just proves that even more! Good luck on finding your baby at the shelther. You will not regret it cats are wonderful friends and they are great cuddlers. :D

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 04:06 PM
Thanks,i dont feel like a good mom right now,i leave here in about 20 minutes gonna go to a shelter over here and look..Cant bring myslef to pick damien up and bring him home tonight.because if i see the slightest change in him,i will think hey i dont need to give him up.........

heidiho
June 25th, 2004, 04:11 PM
Well i am off,thanks for the support,this will be this worst weekend ever...I will let you know monday all the stuff that happens....uhhhh!!! I am dying inside............Have a good weekend..

Princesss04
June 25th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Hey I just looked on www.petfinder.com under Phoenix, Arizona and they have some very pretty cats take a look! Good luck! :D

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 04:39 PM
Heidi you are not dying inside now stop that nonsense!

(kidding ,...was trying to provoke you haha)

You won't feel so bad if you keep reinforcing in your mind that he's going to be fine :D

If you're more worried about you...well thats another issue. You aren't betraying him at all....those people that want to get rid of their 15 year old dog cause it peed on the carpet are betraying their dog.

YOU aren't!

Karin
June 25th, 2004, 06:38 PM
I get home from work, log on and....wow!

Heidi, do the right thing for Damien. I know you and I did not get along in the beginning, I said some hurtful things and so did you. I am sorry for my part. We have been able to converse on a few occasions through pm's.
You have been through some very tough times and it seems Damien is your only joy. Sometimes you do have to let go.
Sometimes a certain pet and household is not the perfect combination.
Just one of my opinions; You and Damien are 'butting heads', competing against each other more than working with each other. This is a very crucial stage in his social behavior and learning process. If you can't control him now you will miss this window. He will become a liabilty. The outcome will be his demise for starters and if could seriously do harm or kill a child or adult. And you will lose everything you own and your life will never be the same. You will also have to bear the guilt for the rest of your life. I know this is the worst case scenerio but it can happen in a heartbeat.
You and Damien are oil & water. His only chance is a new home. Heidi, in no way am I saying you are unfit. I'm only saying this is not a owner/pet match.


*stepping off the soap box*

melanie
June 25th, 2004, 08:16 PM
i just dont understand, and you havent said why he was at the emergency??
i dont think you should get a cat yet, get your stuff together before getting a cat. perhaps you can look into cats as a pet and be a little more prepared this time. just give damien up, it is hard for him to be shuttled around all the time, because you cant make up your mind, make a decision and stick to it. perhaps you should get budgie or a pot plant, they can be loving as well and are far less maintance.

trescanis
June 25th, 2004, 09:28 PM
This is BY NO MEANS sarcasm, but I think Melanie has a fantastic idea. A potted plant.

If someone cannot afford money for training a dog, how in the heck can the same person afford the money for maintaining a cat? :confused:

Why not volunteer at a shelter and hug away? That I think would be the most unselfish thing you could do.

Lucky Rescue
June 25th, 2004, 09:37 PM
I agree Trescanis. Any pet can end up costing a lot of money. I had a rat who cost 315$:(

Luba
June 25th, 2004, 10:55 PM
If I'm not mistaken the type of training that Heidi indicated was going to be quite expensive.

Is it fair to say because she can't afford to spend several hundred or a thousand dollars on training for Damien that she can't get a cat? I don't think thats fair.

The issue isn't about money solely with Heidi .... as someone else said it's just not working out. That happens! She may be in over her head with this dog, so she hopefully will have him rehomed.

HEY she can always become a foster mommie to cats!! I'm sure rescues are looking all over for foster homes! ;) hint hint Heidi!

Lucky Rescue
June 25th, 2004, 11:52 PM
Cats can be very expensive too. I know all about it:( I always said for what my last cat (20 yr old Monstrose) cost me, I could have gotten a racehorse!!

I think if heidi wants a cat, she should wait and read up on them and learn about them first. If she still wants one, I suggest a declawed adult for her.

chico2
June 26th, 2004, 08:35 AM
I actually sympathize with Heidi,like I would be,she was ill prepared for a puppy,but could not easily give up on him.
However,I am not comfortable with the casual way some of you say"you can always get a cat/kitten".
Cats too cost money,cats too get sick and need a lot of love and care,they do live a lot longer than most dogs.
Heidi having a nasty boyfriend bothers me,if he is teasing a puppy,I can just imagine what he would do to a small cat :mad:
Also,unlike a puppy,cats should not be kept in crates.Also not all kitties are instantly lap-cats,especially shelter-kitties,it will take some effort and patience to gain a cats confidence,well worth it,but does Heidi have it?
I don't begrudge Heidi someone to love and care for,I just want her to think about it,before replacing Damien with a cat...also,in my experience a male cat would be better in the cuddle-department :p
One last thing,I am hoping Heidi is not thinking of locking a cat up in the bathroom while she is at work,she will then have a very stressed cat,unlikely to be a lap-cat.

Lucky Rescue
June 26th, 2004, 09:26 AM
Right Chico - cats are not maintenence free or necessarily cheap either. Not to mention those stinky litterboxes...P U!. They are easier to keep than dogs of course, but even goldfish take some work if you care for them properly.

Agree that a laid-back young male, preferably declawed, would be a good choice. Boys aren't overly bright, but are up for cuddles ALL the time. The girls CAN be snotty, can't they! :p

Anyway, Damien is not gone yet, and may not be.;)

Luba
June 26th, 2004, 10:36 AM
I agree, which is why I suggested she put off her thoughts on getting one until the situation with Damien is handled. She can the focus her thoughts appropriately and not scattered.

cutelittlemako
June 26th, 2004, 12:47 PM
I'm sorry to say that I disagree with some of you who say that Heidi should get an older cat. I really think she should get a kitten - that has no "baggage". Heidi has trouble when her Damien has issues, so if she gets a cat that has issues, it might cause her some problems. A kitten from a shelter would be better because kittens are "easier to train". Especially for a new owner. I lived with cats all my life, but I never had one that was my own responsability, so I got a kitten. I got it used to being groomed when he was young. If Heidi gets an older cat that has never been groomed and she tries brushing it and the cat bites her, there will be new posts started and a whole new set of arguments. Kittens aren't much more work than older cats and they easily get used to your lifestyle.

I really think someone with little experience with cats should start with a kitten.

Bill & Bob
June 26th, 2004, 01:22 PM
Hey Folks! How's it going? Haven't been around in a while...So? Anything new? What's up?

Just kidding.

Luba
June 26th, 2004, 01:44 PM
Ahh so u finally showed up LOL

Catt31
June 26th, 2004, 01:51 PM
Hey, it only took him FIVE pages this time!!!!!! LMAO :p

Karin
June 26th, 2004, 08:12 PM
..but coming out of an abusive relationship, large breed dogs do offer some sort of comfort and security. I know, been there done it. Only I have had experience from day one with large breeds.
Maybe this has something to do with it...I don't know.

hfd
June 26th, 2004, 08:18 PM
Tonight has been a tough night for me. I recently found this site when I was looking for input regarding my, now 7 month old, puppy. I did get some good advice from some experienced dog people and have benefitted from that.

Anyway, tonight I was catching up on some of my surfing and have been reading this BB and the one at "terrificpets.com". I have been disturbed by a trend that I have noticed. It is the way a person's request for assistance can become a string of nasty, hateful and judgemental posts. This string recently took a ridiculous turn and that is why I wanted to post; to mark my disgust with those of you who jump to conclusions and post hurtful, irrelevant drivel in response to balanced, objective posts.

I would like to suggest that we all think twice about what we post and to try to be objective. If all the facts aren't there...ask for clarification before commenting. I think that we all owe each other that.

Thanks for hearing me out!

hfd a.k.a. Parker's mom

Lucky Rescue
June 26th, 2004, 08:22 PM
I'm sorry to say that I disagree with some of you who say that Heidi should get an older cat

I must respecfully disagree with that. Kittens bite and scratch and they wreck your house, and they continue to do it for a long time! They could try the patience of a saint. :eek: And for someone who has no experience with cats, and puts a high value on furniture, I wouldn't recommend them unless you are willing to put up with a LOT of aggravation. Also, if you are not home all day, it's unfair to get just one kitten. Two do twice the damage! My own Stinkerbelle has so far done WAY more damage than my dog has ever done. A litter of kittens I fostered pretty well destroyed my guest room.:(

A nice mellow tom, about 9 months and up (preferably already declawed) would be a better choice for this particular person.

hfd
June 26th, 2004, 08:44 PM
This thread is heading off-topic...but...

I disagree with declawing, it is very painful for the cat, takes weeks to heal from, and exposes them to risk of infection when they use their litter boxes. My two, both rescue cats, came with a clause in the contract that I do not declaw them that I happily signed.

My first, Copper, has made it her mission to claw everywhere but the $200 cat tree that I have for her, along with many other sisal posts, tree trunks, pieces of pine furniture, and other manufactured claw-friendly cat items. So, I do not speak from inexperience...I know the consequences of not de-clawing a cat!

The second, Kai, didn't have the same need to claw the furniture and always used the cat trees. While, from time-to-time, he has tried to pick up on her bad habits, he is much more reactive to my admonishments. Clapping immediately sends him off when he leans on an inappropriate piece of furniture.

Anyway, there are so many management tools out there that there is no reason to declaw a cat. Bitter apple spray, sticky paper, tin foil, press-on nails, the list goes on and on. Find something that works and stick with it.

Me...I have chosen not to fixate on the material possessions that Copper is damaging. She brings far too much to my life for me to worry about a couple of pulls in my couch fabric. It is all about perspective (and a lot of positive reinforcement when she does claw on the cat tree or other cat-friendly piece)!!

Please consider this in your decision to adopt a cat. If the cat is not already declawed and you cannot deal with the potential that it might damage your furniture, then do not adopt it!!!

Thanks for giving this some thought!!

babykitty
June 26th, 2004, 09:41 PM
I don't agree that she should have a male either. I have one of each the female I got at 1.5 years and the male I got at 9 weeks, I find that even though my male might like to cuddle (only in bed) more, he is way more of a psycopath(running around the house breaking things like he's spider man or something) than my mild mannered laid back female who has never acted like a heathen in the 6 years i've had her, mind you the male I've had since kittenhood tries my patience on a daily basis. I think it all depends on the individual cat, regardless of sex. And my female isn't stuck up, I like to think of it as reserved and lady like.... And my 3year old male is Dennis the menace. :D

heidiho
June 29th, 2004, 03:15 PM
I just read some of these posts,yes damien, training was gonna be alot of money,that i didnt have and could not take the risk that it would change him into this sweet loving animal,it would always be in the back of my mind that he could turn,as for the furniture,yeah i just got brand new furniture that i do value cause i will not be able to get new furniture again..and for all the other rude comments ...You have no idea what it is like to give up someone you love..............so shut up if you dont.............

chico2
June 29th, 2004, 03:29 PM
HFD,no real cat-lover agrees with declawing,if you had read some more of the different posts you would know how most of us feel about mutilating a cat.
However,there are plenty of cats in shelters already declawed and would have been suitable to Heidiho.But it's now a non-topic,since she no longer wants a cat.

sammiec
June 29th, 2004, 03:29 PM
I have been disturbed by a trend that I have noticed. It is the way a person's request for assistance can become a string of nasty, hateful and judgemental posts. This string recently took a ridiculous turn and that is why I wanted to post; to mark my disgust with those of you who jump to conclusions and post hurtful, irrelevant drivel in response to balanced, objective posts.

I would like to suggest that we all think twice about what we post and to try to be objective. If all the facts aren't there...ask for clarification before commenting. I think that we all owe each other that.

Thanks for hearing me out!

hfd a.k.a. Parker's mom

This is very true hfd - I am wondering though, did you read all of the threads and posts regarding this issue or have you assumed that we are all hurtful, rude and difficult people? This has been a difficult subject for all that have been posting and I think at one time or another most of us have lost our cool. This doesn't mean that we are all here to tear people apart. I suggest to read some of her 600 posts and see where were are truly coming from. She has had a rough time of it, and unfortunately the internet does not always convey emotions as they were ment to be....i didn't mean to be harsh or rude... :p

heidiho
June 29th, 2004, 03:35 PM
I do think it would be cruel to de claw a cat..I also think it is cruel to cut half of a dogs ear off just for looks,but thousands do it...I do love cats and dogs , i just want time to get over damien and go from there,the cat would be ideal being in an apt and all,and i do feel i have alot to offer a poor animal in a shelter,but for now it will be a couple of fish..................... :) :) :)

sammiec
June 29th, 2004, 03:37 PM
I just read some of these posts,yes damien, training was gonna be alot of money,that i didnt have and could not take the risk that it would change him into this sweet loving animal,it would always be in the back of my mind that he could turn,as for the furniture,yeah i just got brand new furniture that i do value cause i will not be able to get new furniture again..and for all the other rude comments ...You have no idea what it is like to give up someone you love..............so shut up if you dont.............
heidi, heidi, heidi.. are we gonna rant again?!?! you have done the right thing! don't think otherwise. Damien needs help and unfortunately you cannot provide it to him at this time. Therefore rehoming is a necessity.
I watched this show "Animal Patrol" on Animal Planet this weekend and I thought of Damien; there was a mixed breed that was "abandoned" in the backyard with gapping wounds to his neck from the chain that was imbeded in his neck (BEFORE YOU FREAK THIS WAS NOT THE PART THAT REMINDED ME OF DAMIEN!!! :) )
Anyway, the dog was awesome through the whole thing kissing and very freindly... when the healing process was near completion and it was time to temperment test the dog, before adoption, is where things turned for the worst - Atlas (the dog) had a serve food aggression problem. He attacked the testing hand numerous times to protect his food. Atlas could not be adopted because of this. He was euthanized.
The good news is that Damien is MUCH younger, and with the proper training done now he will have a chance to be adopted again!!!! You did what was best for this dog and for that I am proud of you! :)

heidiho
June 29th, 2004, 03:54 PM
Ok i will deop it ,i just read some of those things i didnt see before,and just get a little upset,he is gone,enough saud,when i talk to her i will update everyone,yeah that show animal police ,that is being a bad pet owner,i cannot believe the stuff people do,chaining dog outside and never adjusting the collar,i would shoot them//////////////

melanie
June 29th, 2004, 04:57 PM
hfd, it is hard to handle sometimes thats all, we are not a nasty bunch, please dont think that.

an appropriate little poem for life i think-

ever mind the rule of three,
three times what thou givest return to thee,
this lesson well
thou must learn
thee only gets
what thou doest earn.

trescanis
June 30th, 2004, 01:15 AM
I think it all depends on the individual cat, regardless of sex.

I couldn't agree more! Any animal, (canine, feline, human, cripes even crustaceans etc) are individuals. The genetics are fascinating.

SOUTHERNPHILLY
June 30th, 2004, 02:20 AM
Have you been to puppy/obedience school??? If not you must RUN not walk to sign up now! I've read some of your other questions, and it's great that you are asking lots of questions and obviously want to do well with Damien. But - it will be very irresponsible not to get control of your dog's behavior now. He deserves a chance to be a great pet, but needs to be shown how by somebody in charge. That would be you. :)
WHAT BREED IS DAMIEN?

sammiec
June 30th, 2004, 06:54 AM
WHAT BREED IS DAMIEN?

read at least part of the thread before you post... Damien is a GSD - German Shepard