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Medi Cal

Akira
April 8th, 2008, 01:57 PM
Hello everyone, I just got a puppy on sunday and I have bought him Medi Cal Growth and Developement. I bought it from my vet but I am just wondering if this is a good food and if anyone has had any problems with it. All input will be greatly appreciated.

pitgrrl
April 8th, 2008, 02:10 PM
The only experience I have with Medi-cal food was the prescription Fiber formula. Honestly, my dogs did horribly on it. It helped a bit with the specific condition it was prescribed for, but their overall health just went totally down hill while they ate it.:shrug:

aslan
April 8th, 2008, 03:09 PM
First what was the little fuzzbutt eating before you got the vet food, if you switch straight from one to the other it will upset his tummy. I'm with Pitgirl, i'm not a fan of Medi-cal. There is a food forum here i would suggest you check out what some of the others have to say.

luckypenny
April 8th, 2008, 03:52 PM
We started our Penny on this when we brought her home (Lucky was on the Preventative Formula). I thought it was one of the best foods because the vet recommended and sold it...and I trusted his word :o .


Dry - Development Formula

Chicken Meal, Brewers Rice, Oat Flour, Corn, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid and Lecithin), Dried Whole Egg, Fish Meal, Yeast Culture, Beet Pulp, Cranberry Meal, Tomato Pomace (Source of Lycopene), Flax Meal, Chicken Digest, Minerals (Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Monosodium Phosphate, Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulphate, Iron Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulphate, Copper Bioplex, Calcium Iodate and Organic Selenium), Fructo-Oligosaccharides, Taurine, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E, Inositol, Vitamin C, Niacin, Ascorbyl Polyphosphate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Beta-Carotene, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Biotin, Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D3), Bacillus Subtilis Dried Fermentation Extract, L-Carnitine, L-Glutamine, Docosahexanoic Acid and Alpha-Lipoic Acid.

First, many dogs can be intolerant to corn, and imo, it's a cheap filler. The other highlighted ingredients are some of the ones you'd want to avoid as recommended by the Dog Food Project: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients

chico2
April 8th, 2008, 04:03 PM
Akira,I was one of those people once,thinking whatever the vet recommends has to be good food,but not so anymore.
Ther are many excellent foods out there in Pet-Food stores and most of the time with very helpful staff,you can make a slow transition from Medi-Cal to better food for your puppy.
Check out our Food Forum,tons of great advice!

Akira
April 8th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Thank you everyone!

we ended up adopting the puppy from an abusive home, and they were feeding him kibbles n bits. We told the vet our situation and they recomended the medi-cal.

Now would it be a better idea to let him adapt to the medi-cal then switch him to something else, or keep him on the kibbles n bits, untill we find a better food?

luckypenny
April 8th, 2008, 05:18 PM
:laughing: Just about anything is better than K&B imo. If you haven't a choice for now, stay with the MediCal until you've researched some better quality foods ;) .

rainbow
April 8th, 2008, 06:49 PM
I agree with Luckypenny......Medi-Cal is bad but stay away from the Kibbles n Bits. I would go to a local independent pet store and get a premium/holistic dog food. Mix it in with the Medi-Cal until he is transitioned over then take the bag of Medi-Cal back to the vet. You will get a full refund....just tell them that your dog doesn't like it. ;)

Akira
April 9th, 2008, 12:51 PM
Thanks everyone:)

Now I thought I heard some where that performatrin was a pet store food, is this true? Cause i have also heard its a pretty good food. I got a sample bag and the dogs seemed to like it. Should i go with this food? Or am I once again being turned in the wrong direction?


Thanks again

rainbow
April 9th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Someone here posted that it is Pet Valu's brand. We don't have a Pet Valu here but I checked their website for the ingredients:

http://www.performatrinultra.com/puppy/pdi_chicken.htm ....

Chicken
Chicken Meal
Whole Brown Rice
Whole Barley
Whole Rice
Menhaden Fish Meal
Oatmeal
Ground Whole Rye
Sunflower Oil stabilized with mixed Tocopherols (a natural source of Vitamin E)
Dried Egg Product
Alfalfa Meal
Peas
Fresh Whole Sweet Potatoes
Fresh Whole Carrots
Fresh Whole Apples
Sea Salt
Kelp
Brewers Dried Yeast
Potassium Chloride
Whole Blueberries
Whole Flaxseed
Spinach
Dried Skimmed Milk
Chicory Root Extract (Prebiotic)
Garlic
Lactobacillus Acidophilus (Probiotic)
Bacillus Subtilis (Probiotic)
Bifidobacterium Thermophilum (Probiotic)
Bifidobacterium Longum (Probiotic)
Enterococcus Faecium (Probiotic)
DL-Methionine
Taurine
Yucca Schidigera Extract
Lecithin
Ascorbyl Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C)
Zinc Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Zinc)
Choline Chloride
Vitamin E Supplement
L-Lysine
Iron Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Iron)
Rosemary
Manganese Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Manganese)
Basil
Sage
Copper Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Copper)
Dandelion
Vitamin B12 Supplement
Vitamin A Supplement
Niacin
Calcium Pantothenate
Vitamin D3 Supplement
Riboflavin
Folic Acid
Pyridoxine Hydrochloride
Thiamine Hydrochloride
Biotin
Beta Carotene
Cobalt Amino-Acid Complex (source of Chelated Cobalt)
Potassium Iodide
Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity)
Selenium Yeast (source of Organic Selenium)

There are alot worse foods out there but I think you can find better. It is too grainy imo and it contains Menhaden Fish Meal which is usually preserved with ethoxyquin :yuck: before it is sold to the pet food manufacturer.

Also, the Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (also known as Vitamin K3) is a controversial ingredient that is banned for human consumption. :eek: It is the cheapest source of Vitamin K .....they should be using Vitamin K1 instead. Most of the premium/holistic brands have removed it entirely from their formulas and added natural sources of Vitamin K instead.

Akira
April 9th, 2008, 01:25 PM
What would I do without you all on the site, thank you very much rainbow.

Do they sell wellness for puppies?

clm
April 9th, 2008, 01:38 PM
I know there's a wellness canned for puppies, I'm not sure about dry. I mix my dogs half and half with wellness canned and kirkland (costco), and orijen dry.

Cindy

rainbow
April 9th, 2008, 01:43 PM
Yes, they do sell Wellness for puppies. I noticed that your puppy will be a year old next month. Is he full grown? If so, then you can feed him the adult formula. :pawprint:

Akira
April 9th, 2008, 01:53 PM
Thats our other pup, Akira. Adams the new arrival, hes only about 10-12 weeks.

Thanks alot you guys, im glad i asked and didnt just keep feeding him this food.

I'll be posting up some pictures of him today so you can see how adorable he is. Hes already 30 pounds!

rainbow
April 9th, 2008, 02:04 PM
Sorry....I looked at your profile and only seen the one you listed and I haven't kept up with a lot of the posts lately. :o

Looking forward to the pics. :D :thumbs up

PetCrazy84
August 4th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Question for everyone....
Who do you trust to accurately give the BEST information for your pet...a teenager from a pet food store or a veterinarian who has gone through YEARS of training??

Things to check that I knnow medi-cal has
Digestive Enzymes- puppies are born with immature gut systems...Does Kibbles and Bits have this- or better yet does WELLNESS have this

DHA for brain and spinal growth

RESEARCH and 100% guarentee- Are the Welness products actually going through feeding trials- HELL NO!!

Corn is actually a very healthy ingredient in pet food if properly cooked it supplies over 89% digestability!

sugarcatmom
August 4th, 2009, 05:27 PM
Question for everyone....
Who do you trust to accurately give the BEST information for your pet...a teenager from a pet food store or a veterinarian who has gone through YEARS of training??

Neither. They're both in the back pockets of the pet food industry. Do you actually know how much training veterinarians get regarding nutrition anyway? About the same as the teenager in the pet food store.

RESEARCH and 100% guarentee- Are the Welness products actually going through feeding trials- HELL NO!!

Feeding trials are not designed to determine how to make pets thrive, their purpose is to try to keep the animals alive. Big difference. A feeding trial only requires 8 animals eating the one food for 6 months, and only 6 of the animals need to finish the trial. This hardly indicates whether a food is "complete and balanced for the life of the pet", as Big Pet Food would have us believe. Here's a book that you really need to read before putting anymore blind faith into the unscrupulous industry of veterinary diets: http://www.amazon.ca/Not-Fit-Dog-Truth-Manufactured/dp/1884956831

Corn is actually a very healthy ingredient in pet food if properly cooked it supplies over 89% digestability!

Just curious, are you in vet school by chance? :rolleyes:

aslan
August 4th, 2009, 05:33 PM
Question for everyone....
Who do you trust to accurately give the BEST information for your pet...

I trust,,,, Sugarcatmom,Growler,Rainbow, Luckypenny...:D

Love4himies
August 4th, 2009, 06:12 PM
Years of what type of training???? Not nutrition that is for sure, because if they had they would realize that cats are carnivores and should be eating meat not grains and corn :frustrated:. In fact, for cats, some essential nutrients are only found in fresh, raw meat. That tells me that a cat should in fact be eating a properly prepared RAW diet ;), not a processed one with a vitamin pill added.

Love4himies
August 4th, 2009, 06:13 PM
I trust,,,, Sugarcatmom,Growler,Rainbow, Luckypenny...:D

:laughing::laughing: good one, alsan :thumbs up

Frenchy
August 4th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Corn is actually a very healthy ingredient in pet food if properly cooked it supplies over 89% digestability!

well then , if you do believe this , save yourself lots of $$$ and go buy your dog a bag of pop corn. :shrug:

diandpat
August 4th, 2009, 07:17 PM
well then , if you do believe this , save yourself lots of $$$ and go buy your dog a bag of pop corn. :shrug:

:laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing:

"Just curious, are you in vet school by chance?"

Good question SCM...the poster has not come back to answer :D

rainbow
August 4th, 2009, 07:22 PM
"Just curious, are you in vet school by chance?"

Good question SCM...the poster has not come back to answer :D

I'm thinking that she (he) has been totally brainwashed by a Medi-Cal rep and then dazzled by their freebie incentive package. :rolleyes:

kandy
August 5th, 2009, 11:20 AM
I trust my own research when choosing food for my dogs.

IMO, It sounds like you are just regurgitating pieces of a lecture from an 'instructor' provided by Hills or Medi-cal. The average vet student is required to take very little in the way of nutrition classes, and what they are required to take is most often provided by Hills or Medi-cal. Of course they are going to say that their products are the absolute best diet for a dog, doesn't matter that most Hill's products number one ingredient is corn - they'll tell you that the carnivore in your living room will do very well on a corn based diet. Humans don't even digest corn very well - and dogs have an even harder time converting it. It's a cheap filler. When those kinds of diets do work for special medical conditions, I believe it is the additives in the food that work, certainly not the sub-par ingredients.

growler~GateKeeper
August 5th, 2009, 04:32 PM
Things to check that I knnow medi-cal has

The thing that I know Medi-cal has is a history of recalls

Cyanuric acid http://www.itchmo.com/royal-canin-canada-recalls-additional-cat-and-dog-food-474

Melamine & Cyanuric acid http://www.medi-cal.ca/company/pdf/en_consumer_product_recall.pdf

Melamine & Excess amounts of Vitamin D http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/royalcaninrecall.htm

Excess amounts of Vitamin D from 2004 to 2007 http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2792684&mesg_id=2795253

Corn is actually a very healthy ingredient in pet food if properly cooked it supplies over 89% digestability!

Yeah right :rolleyes: that's why everyone has such smelly gas so horribly after it's "digested" and the poop is mushy diarreah-like & odd coloured :rolleyes:

Khari
August 6th, 2009, 06:54 PM
The only experience I have with Medi-cal food was the prescription Fiber formula. Honestly, my dogs did horribly on it. It helped a bit with the specific condition it was prescribed for, but their overall health just went totally down hill while they ate it.:shrug:

My experience with Medi-cal Hypoallergenic was not a good one. It never helped my cats constant soft stinky runny stools over the many years. Neither did the medication the vet pumped him with. What I can tell you is the Medi-cal made my vet alot of money. :laughing::laughing::laughing:

flipgirl4
August 8th, 2009, 12:51 PM
The fact that a vet at the clinic where I work told me that feeding my dog raw was not natural and that if I wanted to feed her natural food, I should feed her canned, convinces me not to trust a vet's advice when it comes to nutrition. Sure, they know which food to prescribe for a particular condition but why do they prescribe a food with grains in it for diabetic animals? I remember a Medi-Cal rep coming into the clinic and describing how they have a super duper technological way of screening the corn that comes in. I can't remember exactly what happens but basically, the batch of corn is screened somehow and if it doesn't pass, the whole batch gets sent back. Well, after a dog eats it, it comes out whole anyway, so they can have it back then too. Admittedly, more and more vets are becoming more raw-friendly but I wish the current vets would get with the program. In this day and age of people striving for good health and knowing that most of it comes from natural, whole foods, you'd think that there would be a new wave ot thinking in the veterinary industry. I once asked one of the vets about an ingredient in one of the prescription foods and what good does it do for an animal? All he could say was what the food was prescribed for. So you have no knowledge of what powdered cellulose is for?

As for the OP's question, yes, stick with the Medi-cal until you find a good food. Then transition slowly - usually, when you transition from a poor food to a good food, you should transition more slowly to allow your dog's stomach to get used to the new ingredients. Plus, you will find you won't have to feed as much of the better food. Just follow the guidelines on the bag and then adjust if your dog starts to gain weight or lose weight.

PetCrazy84
August 26th, 2009, 09:12 PM
Sugarcatmom-
I agree it would seem that way wouldnt it. Because the pet food industry is completely un-regulated. You would be shocked when you see what is in your "natural grain free foods!!" and by the way Maize IS corn.. and a lot of those labels just change the name so that people have no idea what it acutally is. Cats are carnivores yes, but if a company tells you that there are no carb sources in dry food they are lying to you.. because that is impossible- you can not make canned food without a carb source.

This is taken from Orijen...

Fresh boneless chicken, Did you know that this is completely marketing.. FRESH CHICKEN is not possible.. so by the time it gets into the pet food it is actually dehydated and is made up of 75% water.. so now its actually ingredient number 7

Food Allergies are a huge problem... So after having your pet on this diet.. you have just exposed you pet to 7 types of protein sources...

Russet potato--- How is this natural... When did dogs chow down on potatoes in the wild?and not onyl that.. they are just breaking down all of the carbs in the ingredient panel..

Cranberries- do you know that feeding cranberries actually can invoke a urinary infection??

Vitamin supplements- how are these vitamins supplied. Just putting vitamins in the diet WILL not allow them to be properly absorbed- they need to be attached to a protein source or a amino acid.

chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh pacific salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, peas, fresh lake whitefish, fresh northern walleye, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), chicken liver, salmon meal, fresh turkey, fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants, choline chloride, psyllium, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, sea salt, vitamin supplements (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, vitamin B6, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12), mineral supplements (zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium), dried Lactobacillus acidophilus, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

These Lactobacillus and Enterococcus are HUMAN strains WHICH have NO effect on the DOG!!

Also, Question for you
When Nutro, Iams and all the other companies got affected in the recall... what did they do..ANSWER- NOTHING

Medi-cal paid for EVERY single vet bill that these patients occured.. what does that tell you..
that they back there product- guarentee you none of the other companies will do that.

Bottom line..
do your research.. feed your pet what you want.. but I want to feed my dog something I know has A gone through research and B is backed 100%


Flip Girl84- exactly what would you call natural.. as opossed to un-natural.
And I would like for you to see exactly what regulations all the foods that are "organic" actually have.

sugarcatmom
August 26th, 2009, 09:36 PM
Also, Question for you
When Nutro, Iams and all the other companies got affected in the recall... what did they do..ANSWER- NOTHING

Nutro and Iams aren't brands I would ever choose to feed my pets.

Medi-cal paid for EVERY single vet bill that these patients occured.. what does that tell you..

Companies like Wellness, Nature's Variety, Natura, etc weren't involved in the recall at all. What does that tell you?

Bottom line..
do your research..

Amen.

http://www.catinfo.org/zorans_article.pdf
http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=whycatsneedcannedfood
http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html
http://www.fnes.org/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/hodgkinsarticle.htm
http://web.archive.org/web/20070427074330/http://www.catnutrition.org/vetletter.html
http://home.ivillage.com/pets/cats/0,,p8ds,00.html
http://all-about-cats.com/long-life.htm
http://www.rawfedcats.org/
http://www.messybeast.com/cat-food-industry.htm
http://www.catinfo.org/felinediabetes.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Not-Fit-Dog-Truth-Manufactured/dp/1884956831
http://www.amazon.com/Your-Cat-Simple-Secrets-Stronger/dp/0312358016
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Cat-Bible/Tracie-Hotchner/e/9781592403257
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Low-carb_diet

growler~GateKeeper
August 26th, 2009, 10:39 PM
Also, Question for you
When Nutro, Iams and all the other companies got affected in the recall... what did they do..ANSWER- NOTHING

Medi-cal paid for EVERY single vet bill that these patients occured.. what does that tell you..
that they back there product- guarentee you none of the other companies will do that.

Oh that's rich :rolleyes: Do you have a pet that was affected by the recall?

I do. My perfectly healthy 16 year old cat was poisoned by Royal Canin/Medi-cal. They do NOT pay every single vet bill, they only pay for what they want, when they want. I had to demand compensation and then I was given a strict guideline for what they would and would not pay and how often I was allowed to have appointments. Anything outside of those guidelines I'm on my own. They also will not pay for any alternative treatments, and if not for the homeopathic treatments she wouldn't be be here today, they'll only pay for western medicine and what does that do for a kidney failure cat? - nothing, the wait and see approach - that's what they are willing to pay for.

PetCrazy84
August 26th, 2009, 11:04 PM
so your CARNIVORE cat needs to eat this?

Orijen
sun cured alfalfa, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, Saskatoon berries, russet potato,licorice root, angelica root, peppermint leaf,hamomile flowers, dandelion, summer

AT A WHOPPING 470kcal a cup


Now Pet Food

potato flour, pea, potato, pea fibre,carrots, pumpkin, bananas, blueberries, cranberries, raspberries, blackberries, papaya, pineapple, grapefruit, lentil beans, broccoli, spinach, cottage cheese, alfalfa sprouts, dicalcium phosphate, sun-dried alfalfa,

AT 460kcal a cup!!!

And Go Natural Just for FUN!

Potato, Peas,Pumpkin, Apples, Carrots, Bananas, Blueberries, Cranberries, Lentil Beans, Broccoli, Spinach, Cottage Cheese, Alfalfa Sprouts

EVEN BETTER 547kcal a cup!!

Does anyone know is BANANAS or any of these ingredients are even benefical.. show me some research...



No wonder 50% of CATS ARE overweight!!

Marcha
August 26th, 2009, 11:18 PM
Akira, how does your quest go some four months later? Have you found another brand or diet for your pup?

Our pup was almost 8 weeks old when we got her from the local SPCA. She was used to Hill's Science stuff. We switched from that to Medi-cal while we looked around to see what alternatives were around for us, in the area where we live, and within proximity of our 'regular routes'. Bodhi was underweight when we got her, so we figured that the Hill's brand wasn't really working for her, and switching was going to at least give a small improvement while we got our ducks lined up. Then we found Orijen food, and saw that it was readily available at the shops that we frequent. We switched to that while we researched raw food options for Bodhi. I'd fed raw while I lived in Holland, but that was 10+ years ago, and Europe isn't Canada, regulations and such are entirely different, etc... so we used Orijen while we took our time to find a freezer, read up, make a budget, etc. We found a wonderful raw food specialist almost around the corner, and we drive past it several times a week at least. We can email them our order a few days in advance, they pack it into a box, we come into the store two days later, pick up the box and pay. Easy as that. They have everything from blocks to bones to necks, backs, supplements, etc. We'll stock up on meats that are on sale at the supermarket too. We've been all-raw for a week now and to be honest, Bodhi has been absolutely great with it.

With the Science stuff, Bo had quite a lot of irregular poos, part runny, part solid. She'd also go irregularly, it seemed. Of course being a pup she isn't regular yet, but this was more than the irregularity of a pup. Like she'd have two or three at sometimes 5 minute intervals per meal, so that could amount to 8-12 poos!! She was also drinking huge amounts of water, and refused to eat her Science stuff soaked. It was dry or nothing. Bodhi smelled something awful when we got her, and it continued until we changed her food.

We had two kinds of MediCal. The dry food and the wet canned food. Both of them were the Development stuff. The canned food was immediately clear - it gave her the trots, and we replaced it the dry kibble two days after starting to mix it with her Science stuff - the trots stopped. We added it back in once to see if there'd be a change, but nope - instant trots. We returned the unopened cans and got a refund.

On Medi-Cal dry food she seemed to become more regular, as in one bowel movement per meal, but her poos could still be half-runny, half-hard. Sometimes there'd be the odd all-runny, or all-hard ones, but it was still hugely irregular. Again, she didn't want it soaked, she wanted it dry or not at all. Thankfully, she was starting to gain weight on MediCal, which is more than we could say than for the Hill's food. With the MediCal food, her tummy seemed to be quite distended after a meal, she'd need some serious down-time in order to start digesting her food and she was grumpy and gassy for the first hour or two after a meal. She continued to drink huge amounts of water. Her body smelled less offensive, but was still quite umm - firmly - a wet-dog smell, even though she didn't yet swim or get wet.

With Orijen, the poo continued to be regular, AND became regular in consistency. She didn't want it soaked, but also didn't want to eat as much of it, AND continued to gain weight. She started drinking less water, and her tummy seemed less distended after a meal. She still slept for two hours after a meal, but now wasn't grumpy or gassy. She was quicker to wake, and yet more relaxed. Her smell improved dramatically - she no longer smelled like wet dog. She wasn't scratching as much as she had been prior to Orijen, and when I combed her, there was less 'gunk' in the comb (skin flakes and such). Her coat feels more firm, but that could also be a co-factor of getting older, as she was 12.5 weeks at that point.

Now that we've switched to raw, her body odour is virtually gone. The house no longer smells of 'dog' as soon as you come in, and there's no strong animal smell on our hands when we've pet her. While we're still working out how much exactly she needs per meal (which will initially be a constant adjustment anyway since she's a fast growing large breed pup), I can only say good things about raw. She now has about 1/2 of the amount of poo she had on dry food, whether grain or no-grain kibble. Her water intake has balanced out dramatically. No more gas. No more distended tummy. No more cranky behaviour after a meal (just don't go near her while she's got her bone! - we're working on that). Her breath doesn't smell strongly anymore - definitely general health and proper digestion/absorption signs. Her mood seems more even (could be a part of her getting a bit older and finding her place in our family).

The nice thing about raw and biologically appropriate food in general, specially for large breed pups, is that the pups don't grow too fast too quickly - which exacerbates the potential for bone and joint degeneration at later age.

growler~GateKeeper
August 27th, 2009, 12:01 AM
PetCrazy84 You are sounding more and more like you work for Medi-cal - am I right?

So tell me, an ingredient is listed as "Fish oil" what kind of fish is it that is used in Medi-cal foods?

What exactly is "Natural Flavour"? Flavour of what?

Do you think melamine is an appropriate protein source?

Is "Corn Gluten Meal" a good first ingredient in food for a carnivore?

What is "Powdered Cellulose"? It's in just about every Medi-cal food. Cardboard could be considered cellulose.

Oh how about this one "Plasma Protein" in the Mature formula? What in the world is that?

There's "Gelatin" in the Recovery formula - what is the health benefit of that to a sick animal?

Recovery formula also has "Natual gums" what exactly is it that they are using?

The Renal formula has "Meat by-products" what type of meat is used and what are the by products?

The first 6 ingredients in the Renal formula are "Water Sufficient For Processing, Chicken By-Products, Meat By-Products, Corn, Vegetable Oil, Chicken, Corn Starch" where are the actual nutrients that will sustain the body of a cat with compromised health? Do you know that most crf cats die from starvation because they refuse to eat the prescription foods - there's no taste to them.

Cranberries- do you know that feeding cranberries actually can invoke a urinary infection??

So if cranberries "invoke a urinary infection" why does the Medi-cal dissolution formula contain them? and here I thought that was supposed to "dissolve urinary struvite crystals and stones" so what you're saying is instead it will given them a urinary infection.

What about the "Dried beet pulp" in almost all Medi-cal foods? It's nothing but a sugar-filled fiber/filler which can lead to diabetes.

Russet potato--- How is this natural... When did dogs chow down on potatoes in the wild?and not onyl that.. they are just breaking down all of the carbs in the ingredient panel..

About those potatoes - the number 1 ingredient in the HYPOallergenic/Gastro formula is Potato meal, followed shortly after by Potato protein.

sugarcatmom
August 27th, 2009, 07:12 AM
so your CARNIVORE cat needs to eat this?

Absolutely not. Cats shouldn't be eating ANY dry food. Not Orijen, not Hill's, and certainly not Medi-Cal. If you knew as much about pet nutrition as you seem to think you do, you would know that. Read the links I posted, you might learn something. Question for you: what do you think of raw diets?

DoubleRR
August 27th, 2009, 09:51 AM
Thankyou Growler and Sugarcatmom.

I believe what people feed their animals is their own business. If I am asked, I will espouse my beliefs on pet food, which have been formed by my own feeding of said pets over the past 45 yrs.

In this part of the forum, people ask about food, and we can all answer. There is no need to jump in and tell each other that we are at odds--we already know that--we are human.

At this time, where I live, Orijen is absolutely the best available dry kibble. I know this because of the many dogs and cats in my town who have improved health/weight/appearance and whose stools are small and well formed since using the food. I have been using it for my dogs and cats for two years--and am VERY happy with their health and energy levels.

However, if you believe that the stuff you use is working well for your pet, good! Do not try and tell me I am doing wrong by mine, and I will give you the same courtesy. I somehow manage not to hit people over the head in Walmart as they pick up Ol Roy--but it is VERY tempting to do so!

kandy
August 27th, 2009, 06:00 PM
I always encourage people to do their own research on pet food. I'll agree with PetCrazy that the pet food industry is not regulated. The AAFCO is often assumed to be a regulatory agency working under the FDA, when in fact it's just a panel of pet food manufacturers who say what the minimum nutrional needs of an animal are. I'll also agree that if a dry food lists chicken as it's first ingredient - it does contain water and will drop down the list during processing. That's why you look for a food that has more than one meat based (and named) protein in the first few ingredients.

Any processed food (kibble or canned) will have carbs - unless you are looking at the 100% meat canned foods, which are not a complete diet but meant as a supplement. Grain free does not mean carb free. The only way to totally eliminate carbs from a dog/cat diet is to home cook their food or go with a raw diet. And yes, bananas are beneficial - they contain potassium, vitamin A, riboflavin, magnesium, phosphorous, iron, calcium, vitamin C, vitamin B6, niacin, thiamin, copper and zinc. They also have no fat and no cholesterol.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and my opinion is that I am better off to feed my dogs foods that contain bananas and cranberries rather than mystery meat (meat by-products) and corn.

sugarcatmom
August 27th, 2009, 07:59 PM
Any processed food (kibble or canned) will have carbs - unless you are looking at the 100% meat canned foods, which are not a complete diet but meant as a supplement.

There are some very low to no carb canned cat foods that are complete (not sure about dog food). The ones roughly under 10% calories from carbs are preferable - complete carb elimination isn't necessarily the goal. http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html

In the case of cats, if one can't feed homemade/raw for whatever reason, a quality low-carb canned food is the next best thing (just had to say that in case someone else reading this thought wet and dry were equal).

PetCrazy84
August 28th, 2009, 07:54 PM
Thanks Kandy.

I totally agree.. it is your opinion what you feed your pet... I just don't want people to be blinded by marketing. Also, before you slander a company- make sure you do your research.
I have been feeding medi-cal to my dogs for years and I have not had one single problem.. my dog is now 9 years old!
And be careful what you say about companies and recalls= nutro just had a 2nd recall and Orijen had a recall in australia- because the food was killing pets- look it up online.
In the end its you who has control of what your pets eat and I feel 100% confident in my dogs food every single day... My own food for that matter.. who knows?

hazelrunpack
August 28th, 2009, 08:02 PM
As I recall, the Orijen recall in Australia had something to do with the excessive irradiation the gov't was exposing the food to. (Not sure if they ever pinpointed the exact cause and effect, but there was a link between the irradiation and the toxic effect.) In other countries, no recall was necessary because there was no excessive irradiation. :shrug: So the Orijen recall doesn't seem to be related to ingredients.

growler~GateKeeper
August 30th, 2009, 02:23 AM
Also, before you slander a company- make sure you do your research.

And be careful what you say about companies and recalls= nutro just had a 2nd recall and Orijen had a recall in australia- because the food was killing pets- look it up online.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and actually read the articles on the incident in Australia with Orijen before you start slandering them :2cents:

Australia gov't irradiation importing practises altering Orijen catfood? (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=58511)

kandy
September 1st, 2009, 04:56 PM
I have been feeding medi-cal to my dogs for years and I have not had one single problem.. my dog is now 9 years old!


Before I lost a very young newf to total kidney failure, I had never thought twice about dog food. My 2 dogs that I owned prior to my research were fed either Ol'Roy or Atta Boy (generic store brand). Both of those dogs lived long lives - one passed at 17 yrs old, the other at 15. However, now that I know more about dog food, I have to wonder - how much longer would they have lived had they been given better nutrition? Would Sheena have retained her hearing and her eyesight longer? Would Boon have been so overweight or perhaps never had any issues with her heart? Like many pet owners, I wasn't thinking about the difference between surviving and thriving.

It's like people who eat fast food day in and day out. Some of them will remain healthy and at a healthy weight. Others will suffer a myriad of health problems. Would I say that eating fast food for every meal was a good diet based on the fact that some people can remain healthy? No. Would I recommend to someone that they feed their dog the cheapest food possible based on the fact that my 2 dogs had long lives on cheap food? No - every dog is different. Just because one person has fed the food and didn't see any obvious problems doesn't mean that every dog will and it doesn't make it a quality food.

kandy
September 1st, 2009, 05:14 PM
There are some very low to no carb canned cat foods that are complete (not sure about dog food). The ones roughly under 10% calories from carbs are preferable - complete carb elimination isn't necessarily the goal. http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html

In the case of cats, if one can't feed homemade/raw for whatever reason, a quality low-carb canned food is the next best thing (just had to say that in case someone else reading this thought wet and dry were equal).

I know that I've never found a truly carb free dog food but I've never looked at cat food that close. In the complete diet canned cats food with no carbs, what do they use to bind the ingredients together? Most better brands of cat food use guar gum or carageenan - but those are both carbs.

sugarcatmom
September 1st, 2009, 08:58 PM
Most better brands of cat food use guar gum or carageenan - but those are both carbs.

Yup, guar gum and carageenan are often used, but because they are an indigestible soluble fiber, their caloric contribution is negligible. For instance, Innova Evo 95% canned foods contain both guar gum and carageenan (I believe the dog and cat versions are identical) and only have 0-4% calories from carbs, depending on which flavour.