Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Breeder Bull

Reality
April 7th, 2008, 05:15 PM
I have a rant. First off, I do not agree with puppy mills, but when you try and tell me breeders are only interested in the quality of the breed, I don't swallow it. Wanting a certain breed for a pet,, for a house pet , not for breeding or showing is going to cost you the breeders price. If they were really that concerned, why don't they charge less for dogs that are to be loved pets for a family. Why will a breeder sell their dogs when they are done showing? I read on here,, that one person, humm " I Have To Many wasn't planning on breeding her pet,, but at a year old she decided to breed her dog,, she's now a breeder.. gee did she not sign a contract not to breed that dog????? she did if she got it from a qualified breeder,, So I"m angry, cause the breeders are in it to make money too...... yes , they take better care of the animal, but you can't tell me stud fees,, selling pups from champian show dogs, doesn't have anything to do with it,, or that they are supporting their hobby with the selling of pups,, give me a break,, Lets get real

LavenderRott
April 7th, 2008, 05:41 PM
I am not going to tell you that you are wrong, but would like to share what I have learned over several years while looking for an ETHICAL breeder of rottweilers.

First off - let me state this (and it is only my opinion), there is a difference between a reputable breeder and an ethical breeder. A reputable breeder has a reputation for having good dogs that win in shows. An ethical breeder has a dog or two that they show actively, and has a laundry list of things that their dogs MUST do before being bred. Earning a championship is only a small part of that. And earning a Championship is not cheap. There are vet costs for your normal things, vet costs for genetic testing and genetic certifications to make sure that neither dog has any genetic issues to pass on to the puppies and vet costs for the puppies.

Yes, you are going to pay the breeder's price. Some ethical breeders charge less for pet quality pups. Some charge even less if the pup has a disqualifying fault (in rottweilers this could be a bad bite, white spot, long coat, etc.). And most ethical breeders will spay/neuter and give away a dog that they thought was promising as a pup but doesn't "show" well as it gets older.

Lying next to me as I type this is an OFA certified Belgian Sheepdog with his HIC that was given to me. He is neutered and a perfect specimen of the breed. But, because he hated the show ring, he was placed in a pet home - free of charge.

Some breeders really do breed because they love the breed. They are few and far between but they do exist.

MIA
April 7th, 2008, 08:08 PM
I have a dear friend who is what I call a reputable ethical breeder. All her dogs are health tested, shown, etc before breeding, her dogs are all amazing, temperment, health, and standard are all taken into consideration when breeding. She has a job to support her breeding as she doesn't make money off her dogs! I feel they should at least be reimbursed for some costs, you can't just do it for free! I do rescue and often loose money but at times will break even which is a treat and I rescue because I love dogs. I don't breed because you couldn't pay me to be in a show ring! LOL Some breeders do charge less for a finished dog but really they breed each litter for quality and perfection, not pets. My friends last litter was so good she kept ALL of them for show! That's what a good breeder strives for!!!! So to pay even though it's a pet, you are paying for the effort and attempt of perfection. If you don't want to pay go to rescue or the pound! I have three gorgeous purebreds all from rescue.

CyberKitten
April 7th, 2008, 09:30 PM
I too have friends who breed- two of them tho one is getting out of it. She is a family physician and she finds it too expensive. She spends all her money on her VERY expensive hobby. Please do not complain about paying a reputable breeder - they loose so much money on the loving work they do. You know you are getting a well cared for, genetically tested parents and grandparents and even beyond. Reputable breeders show their cats or dogs so they will breed ONLY Grand Champions and that only once a year - twice at the very most but that is unusual. They sell pet quality and show quality. I have three show quality cats but I did not get them for that reason - they are all spayed and will never be bred! EVER! Still, I knew their parents and grandparents, the championships the parents had won and only got my YY because someone backed out at the last minute and I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. She cost me a small fortune but I fell in love with her and she with me and you just know when a cat is yours or you are hers, I should say.

There are many who call themselves breeders but that does not mean they do all the right things, reputable breeders know more about their breed than a vet and can care for their animals almost as well - tho not in serious situations. They work closely with their vets who are on speed dial. They have tough contracts and usually do home visits- you are not just going to walk into their home and walk out with a cat or dog after plopping down some $$$. They have spent and invested too much time, love and energy to ever do that. They need to know their beloved kitten or puppy is going to a good home and they also insist that if anything happens, they get the animal back. Some even do follow up visits and almost all can tell you where every one of their kittens and or puppies are - what their names are and how they are doing. They keep a close eye.

It is time consuming, extremely costly (vet bills, genetic costs, feeding good food and having excellent equipment for caring for their loved pets and more). So, I would never complain about paying for a breeder's fee. It is definitely cheaper than buying a puppy or kitten at a pet store and then paying vet bills for eons because the poor thing came from a byb or a puppy mill! Usually, good breeders will have the first immunizations done and the first vet visit. (and not the kind of vet a puppy mill would have!) Most purebred kittens never go home until at least 12 weeks. (which is the best time so thy can learn everything they need to know from mom. Some rescues use 8 wks but they are stretched with so many). I am not a fan of the 8 week limit nor will a good breeder allow you take a kitten home that early. I forget the time for a puppy.

If you are short of cash, sometimes breeders will sell an adult for a price that is less expensive but it still will be in the hundreds of dollars. But think of all these ridiculous breeders who claim to be selling allergy free (no such entity!) mutts and charging up to $1500 - for like a cockapoo or some designer breed, none of which are recognized by the show circuit.

So by all means, buy from a reputable breeder but find out who IS reputable. Do your homework first!!!!

clm
April 7th, 2008, 10:29 PM
I have a rant. First off, I do not agree with puppy mills, but when you try and tell me breeders are only interested in the quality of the breed, I don't swallow it. Wanting a certain breed for a pet,, for a house pet , not for breeding or showing is going to cost you the breeders price. If they were really that concerned, why don't they charge less for dogs that are to be loved pets for a family.
Some do charge less for a pet quality dog. Some also charge less to place a show dog who doesn't like the ring or who doesn't fit into their breeding program into a pet family at a reduced cost.

Why will a breeder sell their dogs when they are done showing?

They do that to give their dogs the chance to have a wonderful loving family. Not all dogs are happy in the ring and just because a dog has it's championship, doesn't mean it should be bred.

I read on here,, that one person, humm " I Have To Many wasn't planning on breeding her pet,, but at a year old she decided to breed her dog,, she's now a breeder.. gee did she not sign a contract not to breed that dog????? she did if she got it from a qualified breeder,

Most non breeding contracts stipulate that the condition can be lifted if the dogs gets it's championship and if the breeder determines that it's a fit representation of the breed and agrees that the owner may breed the dog and register the puppies.

, So I"m angry, cause the breeders are in it to make money too...... yes , they take better care of the animal, but you can't tell me stud fees,, selling pups from champian show dogs, doesn't have anything to do with it,, or that they are supporting their hobby with the selling of pups,, give me a break,, Lets get real

It's obvious that you're angry, but not sure why. None of the breeders I've ever dealt with have made enough money from the breeding of their dogs to make a living at it. The money they make covers some of the costs for the vets, training, show fees, travel, litter registration fees, individual dog registration fees, licensing, etc, etc. They've all had other lines of work either in the dog world or other areas where they earned the money they live on. None of them lived in luxery, I can assure you. There are loads of wonderful breeders out there, but like anything else, there are lots of bad ones too.

Cindy

Byrd
April 7th, 2008, 10:52 PM
Most of the ones I've talked to do give different pricing for pet quality and show quality dogs. They are also good at picking the dogs that would be best to go to a pet home, best to go to a performance home (like me), or best to keep to put into the conformantion ring and possibly use for future improvement of the breed. Not to mention the testing done on all their dogs each year and each pup in the litter, including microchipping, deworming, and first vaccines. I really can't see where a lot of money is being made. :shrug:

Dracko
April 7th, 2008, 11:16 PM
I have a rant. First off, I do not agree with puppy mills, but when you try and tell me breeders are only interested in the quality of the breed, I don't swallow it. Wanting a certain breed for a pet,, for a house pet , not for breeding or showing is going to cost you the breeders price. If they were really that concerned, why don't they charge less for dogs that are to be loved pets for a family. Why will a breeder sell their dogs when they are done showing? I read on here,, that one person, humm " I Have To Many wasn't planning on breeding her pet,, but at a year old she decided to breed her dog,, she's now a breeder.. gee did she not sign a contract not to breed that dog????? she did if she got it from a qualified breeder,, So I"m angry, cause the breeders are in it to make money too...... yes , they take better care of the animal, but you can't tell me stud fees,, selling pups from champian show dogs, doesn't have anything to do with it,, or that they are supporting their hobby with the selling of pups,, give me a break,, Lets get real

I agree. Until there are no animals in our shelters I think deliberate breeding is wrong.

MIA
April 8th, 2008, 12:34 AM
While I think that would be great Dracko not everyone wants to adopt a dog or can handle adopting a dog, cats for sure I don't get that one BUT I met some amazing cat breeders a few weekends ago and they fix all their cats before they go to their new homes and there is NO chance of their cats ever being bred! I was very impressed to say the least.

Reputable, ethical, responsible breeders aren't part of the problem, I can say this as I have been doing rescue for approx 10 years and in those years I have had maybe 3 dogs from good breeders and each time those dogs went immediately back to the breeder and they either kept the dogs or rehomed them on their own. Good breeders aren't part of of the problem, irresponsible sources are, those who don't care about the pups they sell are. That's who is filling our shelters. As well you have to think about the owner responsibility, they chose to get that dog or cat and need to be responsible too. It's not just the breeders fault here. On top of all that blame the government as well as they don't have any laws stopping mills, pet stores etc from selling anyone a dog to dump the next day!!! It's a HUGE problem and you can't just blame ONE person and we are ALL at fault really. If a person chooses to buy a dog from a less than reputable source, that's a choice, they should also choose to be responsible for that animal. Society dumps things too easily, cars, phones, dogs etc.... It's time for change and time to take responsibility for ones actions.

Love4himies
April 8th, 2008, 07:15 AM
Well said, Mia, people need to take responsibility for what they do, not make excuses.

I agree 110% with Cyberkitten. All the cat breeders I know operate in very similar conditions as she has mentioned.

As for making a profit, bet ethical, reputable breeders don't after paying for all the vet bills (emergency bills are extremely expensive), quality food, costs of showing their pets, etc. They limit the number of litters to a minimum as to not over stress the mom, so there may not be as many pups/kittens for sale as you think.;)