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new kitten feels threatened?

canuckgirl
April 5th, 2008, 11:15 PM
I just got 2 Birman kittens 13 weeks old. I also have a 16 year old spayed female. The older cat is doing the usual staring & hissing etc, but hasn't tried to hurt them or anything. She's very good natured. The boy kitten is very outgoing. He's not scared of the old girl, but keeps a respectable distance. The girl kitten is shy. She's terrified of the old girl & seems always wary. She (the kitten) peed on my bed today right in front of me. I scooped her up & put her in her litterbox about 3 times but she hopped right out again. They were litterbox trained at the breeder's since they were old enough. I know being in their new home for just a few days is a big change but I think her being so frightened of the older cat has upset her litterbox habits. I haven't seen pee anywhere else, but it doesn't stink when they are that young so I don't know. I put her in the box every couple hours but I've yet to see her pee in it. The boy kitten always pees or poops every time I put him in, plus he goes in by himself. Could it be his outgoing personality & the fact he's not afraid of ther old girl makes him comfortable in his new home? And more importantly, is this why the girl kitten is doing this? I might have to ship the old girl out to my folks house if she's traumatizing the poor thing. I don't want her to have behavioural problems as an adult cat, or to grow up being scared of everything.

clm
April 5th, 2008, 11:24 PM
Does she have her own litterbox? She's not likely going to want to use the same one as your adult cat. She may have a bladder infection too, might need to take her to the vet to make sure there's nothing wrong.

Cindy

badger
April 6th, 2008, 04:03 AM
Before doing anything drastic, is there any way you could separate the old girl from the kittens for awhile, or have you already done that? Even though they're not fighting, it might be a good idea to let everyone get used to the new arrangement a bit more slowly. If possible, do not confine the kittens to your bedroom, where the female might recommence peeing in your bed (make sure it is thoroughly clean; there are special formulas that get rid of the smell). Give the kittens their own litterbox and when you reunite them, leave it where it is or as close as possible.
Females are often the most difficult to integrate, as with humans :laughing:, just take it slowly, nothing forced.
Make sure the older female alway has free access to her familiar places, the same routines.
After a few days apart, try switching their blankets, to get them used to each other's odour. You may think since they have already met that this has little value, but it will help them to accept the 'other' as non-threatening.
Got pictures?

canuckgirl
April 6th, 2008, 01:29 PM
I read in another thread about kittens having a down fetish. They like the squishy feel of it on their feet. The pillow & comforter are both down. Hmm? Warmer weather is here & I was going to put the comforter away soon anyway. After a good cleaning & deodorizing of course. And I'm leaving the pillows off the bed during the day.
They have been to the vet & are healthy so that's not the problem. I have 3 litterboxes so that's not the problem. I still think it was from her being scared. The boy kitten is getting braver with the old cat & they have sniffed noses a few times. No hissing. But she has it in for the little female for some reason, like she enjoys bullying her. I don't want her growing up into a timid little scaredy cat. Pun intended. ;) I don't think it's drastic giving her to my parents. She knows them & has stayed at their house every year when I go on holidays. She's very mellow & sociable, loves everyone. Mom is all excited. They've been "petless" for the first time since 1980, having just lost their elderly Shih Tzu. They don't want another dog or a rambunctious kitten. It's a perfect match. They have a nice quiet household & she would get all the attention. Plus I visit them all the time. So is it that terrible a thing to do? Am I a rotten mother? Surely some of you have had to rehome pets before. I'm getting off topic. Anyway, pix are coming once I get them into the computer.

badger
April 6th, 2008, 01:50 PM
This does sound like destiny :laughing:. Your mother is probably stocking up on treats as we write.
Bad mothers dump their pets by the side of the road or wilfully let them wander off, intact and clueless. You are hardly in that category.
Enjoy your kittens!

CyberKitten
April 6th, 2008, 02:48 PM
Firstly, did you start the introduction with the new cat in the prescribed way - recommended way I should say? This means placing the new kittens in a room all by themselves for a week at least until they are adjusted to their new home. It's easier since there are two if them - did the breeder tell you about the little girl's personality before you brought her home? Did you want a quiet kitty? Not suggesting this was caused at the breeder's or it is innate but some kittens are just quieter by nature. Usually, breeders will recognize this. She sounds adorable tho - I have Siamese and like Birmans as well.

Once they are adjusted, trade items used by both so the kittens can become adjusted to the smell of the resident cat (it is HER home after all) and do the same for her, Take something the kittens were sleeping near and place it near her. After awhile , she will think that smell belongs in her territory. You can also take a towel and rub it on the resident cat I hate the word old :)) and then do the same with the same towel with the kittens,. Also rub some vanilla under the chin of each cat and this neutralizes smells. Cats determine who belongs where (ie the resident cat thinks these interlopers who smell differently do NOT belong. She willl also think this when you bring them to the vet for their 1st checkup and meeting and spay and neuter so be prepared).

If this all works, you are doing well.

The improper urination is due to the stress of a new home but the rule of thumb for cats is one liter box per cat plus one. She I am sure loathes going i n the same box as either the Resident Cat or her brother. Buy some more litter boxes and show her which one is hers! I have 4 cats- 2 Sphynx and 2 Siamese- and I have 7 litter boxes. 5 is the minimum but my older meezer has a heart condition so he has two of his own - one upstairs and one downstairs. None of the other cats use it and respect that it is his. My young meezer urinated once on my bed- when she got caught in my bed clothes and could not get out in time, not her fault and she felt so badly, poor baby! I felt worse for her - how could I have allowed that to occur? She also vomited once in her life the 1st night she came to my home but it had been a long journey and she was stressed. She has done soooo well since then.

So I think if you follow all these recommendations and others here, your problems will be solved. Be sure to bring them to the vet tho just in case. A good way to spread infections amg cats is to have only one litter box!

Good luck and pls show us some pix of all your kitties!

canuckgirl
April 6th, 2008, 06:24 PM
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/ebonyruffles/016.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/ebonyruffles/039.jpg
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/ebonyruffles/062.jpg
Frisbee is the blue lynxpoint female & Furby is the sealpoint male. I draped a sheet over the headboard & got some props out. They had a ball with the paper bag! What started out as a tiny finger hole cut into the bottom soon became a handy exit/entrance door. I took some video as well but haven't gotten it into the computer yet.

canuckgirl
April 6th, 2008, 06:36 PM
Oops! Forgot Ebony.http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/ebonyruffles/IMG_0009.jpg
I think she'll be happier at my folks house. She sleeps almost the whole day & won't get any peace with these balls of fluff tormenting her. So I'm taking her tomorrow. Then these kittens can start enjoying themselves without having to be stared at & hissed at every time they get within 10 feet of her. Then I'm going back to visit my folks by the end of the week to see how things are. It'll all work out good I think.

CyberKitten
April 6th, 2008, 10:05 PM
Oh my, they are cute!! There is a good Birman breeder in NB - she may have some good info for you or is that where you got these cuties?

canuckgirl
April 7th, 2008, 10:59 AM
They are from Skyhaven Birmans in Ontario. Their registered names are Skyhaven Fuzzy Little Furby & Skyhaven Fling That Frisbee. Big names for such little babies! I just love them! They are so pretty & quite the snugglebugs.
I've taken Ebony to my parents house. She latched right onto my father, a confirmed cat hater, LOL! That's why every time I visited last summer he had the neighbor's cat sitting on his knee on the front porch? Claims to not like cats? I think he secretly does like them but it's not cool to admit it. They know she's not to be let outside, but she has already claimed the big bay window to bird watch. My mother said she's still looking over her shoulder for those pesky kittens to bother her. I think I made a good decision. Better than having her euthanized. Thanks for everyone's input.

CyberKitten
April 7th, 2008, 04:50 PM
Ebony will return to, right? She WILL feel abandoned and this can affect her psychologically and cats are such delicate creatures- even if they try not to look it - and she was there first that I have to admit that as cute as the kittens are, the solution here is to have everyone get to know each other the proper way. Start at the beginning and all will be well. I have to admit I do not approve of taking a cat from the only home she has ever known. It's sad!! Makes me want to cry to be honest and believe me, I see terrible things in my work and so this is saying something. I do hope you realize her best interest. I know you were aiming for that but she really belongs with you.

Don't boo me - as one fellow said on TV last nigh. I just feel so badly for Ebony!! Poor baby! I could not ever do that to any of my cats. Usually, if a cat has not integrated well -you start over as if they has never met. That is typically the way to do it. With all due respect - and I am not being critical - just sad for Eboky in losing her territory, her mommy and her home and thinking maybe you had not known this about cats and their emotions that can literally make them sick - Yes, she likes your parents but they are not you and their home is not heres. She needs you! And she will adjust - it all takes time. I had to integrate a variety of cats and it is sometimes easier than others but it DOES work in the end. P;lease give your Ebony a second chance at life in her own home with her real mommy! Thanks for listening!

chico2
April 7th, 2008, 05:05 PM
The kittens are beautiful:lovestruck:
I am surprised you would even have thought of euthanizing the older girl:yell:
She is lucky having ended up with your parents in that case.
I always kind of get my back up,when people replace an older cat with kittens,a 16yr old kitty deserves to live out her days in HER home.
But we all think differently:sad:
Good luck to Ebony in her new home:pray:

ancientgirl
April 7th, 2008, 09:56 PM
Your kittens are beautiful, but I can't help but feel bad for your older cat. She was there first,

This was your cat for 16 years and you gave her to your parents very easily after things didn't work out. I'm sorry, but it just seems like you no longer wanted your older cat and wanted to get rid of her once you found two cute kittens. I wonder what these two kittens have in store for them a few years down the line when they in turn are a little older.

But it's your decision, I'm glad you found someone who did want your Ebony.

badger
April 7th, 2008, 11:13 PM
Geez, I didn't know euthanizing was even in the picture. Euthanizing a cat for no good reason, now that's a bad mommy.

canuckgirl
April 8th, 2008, 12:28 AM
I can appreciate everyone's opinion but I did what I thought was best in my own situation. So far, she's doing well, enjoying a big house instead of an apartment. My parents are thrilled so it's good for them too. They are both retired. And the kittens are coming around as well, not hiding & acting scared. It was a tough decision, but it was right for me.

Love4himies
April 8th, 2008, 07:19 AM
Badger, I wanted to say the same thing when I first saw canukgirl's post, but decided to back off, I was so mad:mad:. I now see the OP as a person who replaced her senior kitty with kittens. That is a bad momma indeed!!!!! Don't care to hear your kitty may be happier, how do you know? Sounds like you are very selfish.

Jim Hall
April 8th, 2008, 08:59 AM
i think what you did was fine your older cat gets to enjoy some peace the kittens are non stressed and your folks now have a lovely cat to spoil
you didnt abandon her and if she is happy at your folks thats a good thing

CyberKitten
April 8th, 2008, 10:56 PM
I am sorry Jim and Canuck Girl but I beg to differ. No, it's NOT at all alright. I hope the once resident kitty is OK but you know, red all the studies on cats and stress and one of the location, regardless of the place, the cat and especially in older cats! And this stress can kill them - but then again she mentioned euthanasia already which I admit I did not notice until later and I have to say that shocks me more than I can say! You really do not want to know what I think of that! This cat has been a loyal and true friend to Canuck Girl through good and bad and I bet she has slept with her, shared her inner most secrets and treated this cat well. (I hope she has and it does sound like that!) So, this kitty of course knows NO ONE ELSE as her person. Suddenly, she is in a new place where yes, the people are friendly, they lover her, the food is good and maybe they even get more time if her folks are retired. We do not know that.

I am so very sorry for this cat. She gave all she had to Canuck Girl - loved her seeply and cats do have longer and better memories than dogs and are VERY upset at abandonment - ie , moving to a new location. Some cats develop illnesses even six-eight months after moving WITH their loved ones to a new home. So, no, we have absolutely no way of knowing for sure she will be fine and we do not know that yet. I really hope it works out. At least she is not dead - so there is that improvement - but I hope to God she does not get sick.

Of course, she also must realize that with an older cat comes more vet visit and bills and other issues. Canuck Girl won't have to worry about those but her parents - who are older - will. She does at least know where Canuck Girl is so hopefully she will visit and help her cat make the adjustment but kitty will smell the kittens and be upset yet again.

Maybe it is just that I ha ve lost patients in the last week or so and went through hell - yes hell - last year with my dad's illness and fortunately he survived and is coming along and that experience tells me I am here to help my folks and I do take that to mean I judge myself and others by how they treat the least vulnerable amo9ng us. Of three cats, the oldest is the most vulnerable and I am not impressed - even if the cat is still alive and breathing and with her older parents - with this outcome. yes, it could be worse but what is so heartbreaking for this older kitty is that it never had to be. There are ways of introducing cats and of ensuring they all get along. Proven ways that work. I do not have the sense here that this was done here- Canuck Girl could have started the process over to ensure all three of her cats got along and liked one another. Even sometimes, cats do not get along but they tolerate each other. It is never a reason to loose a home over! I realize C Girl did not know this at first but she rec'd plenty of good advice yet she opted to get rid of a cat she claims to have loved. I can't imagine it or get my head round it. I try to save lives eveyu day yet here this cat is losing her home over something that makes not any sense at all!!!! I have had much to be upset over this year and this just makes me cry! It really does! I cannot believe it and am still shaking my head! I am sorry Canuck Girl - you have really did a number on my hope for humanity!

Jim Hall
April 8th, 2008, 11:06 PM
how is ebony doing ?
Cyber I know all this but looking at the way cgirl says she behaves at her parents it sounds like a good deal Yes I know cats can get stressed and not adjust but canuck says she has been to her new home before and i would also imagine that she will help with the expenses. ebony would have probably been fine and so would have the girl kitty. But I dont see that much harm in it .

canuckgirl
April 9th, 2008, 01:12 AM
I was never going to put her to sleep. I was just saying that happens in some situations. I know a couple that put down 2 lovely little dogs that weren't even 5 years old yet. Because they were moving. If finding a loving home for a pet is rotten, then I guess I'm rotten. I'm not going to argue or defend myself. It's not like I took her & dumped her off at the side of the road somewhere. I'm going to pay for everything as long as they have her. She likes them, they like her, end of story.