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Idiot of the day

ancientgirl
April 5th, 2008, 02:10 PM
I went to the vet's office this morning to pick up the topical treatment for Czarina's parasite problem. I was waiting to talk to the girl at the front desk, who is a really nice person. There was a couple asking questions about the clinic. At one point the girl behind the desk was telling them about the vaccinations they do and stuff, then she mentioned something about spaying. The owners said, "Oh we aren't going to breed her so she won't be spayed."

:wall: I really wanted to say something, but I've been a bit on edge lately, and I knew I'd really get into it with these people so I held myself back. I didn't want to cause a scene.

After they left I told the girl behind the desk I couldn't believe why anyone in this day and age wouldn't spay or neuter their pet. She couldn't believe it either. She said she hears that often, but they can't say anything. Usually the vets give the owners reasons to S/N their pets but ultimately as we know it's up to the owners.

People think that all they have to say is they aren't breeding their pet and they can wash their hands. They do more research before they buy a cell phone than they do for their pet. ;'/\

BusterKitty
April 5th, 2008, 05:30 PM
People think that all they have to say is they aren't breeding their pet and they can wash their hands. They do more research before they buy a cell phone than they do for their pet. ;'/\

So true. My friend recently got a Mini Schnauzer puppy from a couple who couldn't take care of him anymore(I think that's the story...) and I asked her if he was neutered. Her response was the same as the couple in your story(only a little bit different), "But he's never gonna even come in contact with a female so what's the point of spending that much money when I don't need to?". I wanted to slap her but we were in a public area. Clearly, she hasn't done her homework either. My friend and I told her all about the diseases one dog can get and the behaivoural problems and she only says that she'll consider it. I was so angry at her cuz she had been my friend since first grade. >< I wish any animal could come with a pamphlet about pet care attached with it(it had better include good information ><).

Well, that was my mini rant:yell::o

badger
April 5th, 2008, 06:04 PM
Not to mention completely counter-intuitive. They're not going to breed so they're not going to spay/neuter. Wouldn't not breeding imply that the animal should be fixed, for everyone's peace of mind (plus all the other issues)?
Knuckle-heads. The grief they are courting will be far more expensive than altering the animal straight away.

ancientgirl
April 5th, 2008, 06:26 PM
I've been trying to get one of my best friends to neuter her beagle. She's had him for a little over 4 years. I keep telling her that he'll be less likely to develop many health issues in later years, but her excuse is she's always read putting dogs under is risky:frustrated: I've told her time and time again, it's a bigger risk NOT to have it done.

I just hope he never develops anything that could have been prevented by having him neutered.

BusterKitty
April 6th, 2008, 06:03 PM
Good news, my friend just told me that she'll be getting her pup neutered soon(he's nine months old). I don't know when or anything but I'm just glad he's gonna get the snip. Apparently, there's only 1 female dog in her neighbourhood and she's 2 years old, gimongous, and aggressive so my friend thinks that her pup isn't gonna go for her. I don't know if the 2-year-old is spayed or not.

Sadly, the only thing pet-lovers can do is educate. None of us can force another human being into doing something that'll change their furkids' lives.:sad:

Ancientgirl: Has your friend seen any other dog that has been S/N-ed? It might change her mind to see that that dog is very healthy. From the episode about puppy mills on Oprah(:offtopic::sorry: ), there was a small section about S/N. I never knew that it only took about 10 minutes!!! I just hope your friend changes her mind about fixing.

ancientgirl
April 6th, 2008, 06:27 PM
I'm glad your friend changed her mind.

Sadly, my friend is very stubborn. She has another dog, but she got him from the Humane society, and he already had been neutered. I've been trying to convince her for a long time. I don't know what else to do. When I S/N'd Vlad and Oksana, I told her she should N Louie, then again when I had Maks and Kiska , I told her. She won't budge. I even told her if anesthesia was that bad then why would they give it to kittens?

At this point, for Louie's sake, I hope she doesn't regret her decision some day.

aslan
April 7th, 2008, 07:56 AM
Well after watching Oprah the other day, Grace and I contacted Quincy's breeder and explained the show. Turns out she saw it too.. We had been asked not to Neuter Quincy until after he was two, as they wanted to use him once to continue the line. After seeing Oprah she completely agreed with our choice and gave us her blessing to get him snipped. So appt is being made this week.

Longblades
April 7th, 2008, 09:42 AM
There are two sides to every story and unfortunately we have not always been told of the RISKS of spay and neuter, as well as the benefits. Here is a link to an article that presents both sides of the story, for dogs, as concerns only health. It is not biased in either direction, just presents some facts.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Perhaps those people who chose not to spay or neuter their dog had done a bit of research and are making an informed decision.

If anyone has similar information on cats a link to it would be appreciated.

P.S. this is not in any way to imply or suggest that looking after an intact animal is not a HUGE responsibility. Some of those reasons given above are a little suspect.

badger
April 7th, 2008, 10:26 AM
Very interesting. Has there been similar literature on cats?

SARAH
April 7th, 2008, 10:29 AM
And little Spoutnik is going to the vet's tonight for his snip ... we;ll get him back tomorrow. Poor little guy, spending all that time away from us, and probably not getting food before the op either! But he'll be safer afterwards. (and maybe calmer?)

I agree though, NOT breeding = FIXING, not the other way around (du uh! :loser:

ancientgirl
April 7th, 2008, 11:44 AM
Sarah, I've left all of mine at the vet overnight. It's an overnight fee, but your already paying for the operation so what's a few dollars more. Especially if you know they are being looked after by people who know what they're doing. I'm such a worry wart, I felt better leaving them overnight. By the time I picked them up the next day they were okay from the anesthesia and all I had to do is keep them calm.

phoozles
April 7th, 2008, 11:52 AM
And little Spoutnik is going to the vet's tonight for his snip ... we;ll get him back tomorrow. Poor little guy, spending all that time away from us, and probably not getting food before the op either! But he'll be safer afterwards. (and maybe calmer?)


Good luck with the calmer part - I think Alley got a little MORE spazzy after her spay! :rolleyes:

She was in for two nights - one night for observation, and then one to recover from the spay. It was hard to have her away from us, but better safe than sorry..

cockermother
April 8th, 2008, 12:46 AM
Longblades, thanks for presenting both sides of the issue!

I think part of the debate is a cultural expectation. When I first got Flappy we lived in France, and it's not, by far, the norm to automatically neuter a male dog. The shelter where he came from spayed females but left males intact. When I brought up the question, both the shelter staff, the vet, and my boyfriend shuddered at the idea. The attitude was, "we don't see the point of doing that to an older male dog because the health benefits are so slight, and furthermore it's *your* responsibility to look after him and not let him run off and impregnate females, not *his* to spend his life castrated, merci beaucoup".

When he and I arrived on US soil, I was surprised to see friends recoil in horror at the idea of owning an uncut male. Any hint of behavioral or health problems was greeted with "get him neutered" as if that would fix any and every problem, however unrelated. I've had people downright tell me that I'm a irresponsible pet owner just for having him.

Don't get me wrong. A puppy or a young dog that I adopted in the future, I would definitely neuter or spay. But right now, I'm not convinced that it would help *my* dog, or even that the benefits are as one-sided as is popularly believed in the US and Canada. I'm certainly quite sick of having to defend my decision all the time, especially since the vet who examined Flap in France told me not to do it (and don't even *start* me on the racist "what do the French know about anything?" argument that this has provoked in certain militant pro-neuter pet owners.... French males sympathise a lot with their furry male friends, sure, but they have a solid scientific argument on their side, too!)

azuritemor
July 1st, 2008, 03:24 AM
Hooray Longblades!!! You found it. That site ties it all together. Ive known alot of this info for years but there was even more there and all backed up by hard science. After an incident with a vet years ago I went to the texts and found out the truth about the whole S/N thing and havent owned an altered dog since. What the vets were telling me didnt match the literature. The cancer risks werent as great as stated and they are predisposed to excessive weight gain contrary to what I was being told. Theres some this research thats newer and shedding new light on the subject. There certianly are some advantages but not as much as were commonly lead to believe. You cant just mess with mother nature and not have consequences..... not that our dogs are exactly natural anyhow. This is not to say dont S/N unless you re ready to learn about and care for the behavioral and different medical need s of an intact animal.Its not for everyone. Intact doesnt equal irresponsible anymore than S/N equals responsible. My puppy count=zero. For many people the S/N route is more trouble free and better for their lifestyle and thats fine but its not everyones choice.

Sabine
July 1st, 2008, 06:22 AM
Thanks for posting both sides of the "story". In Germany it's even considered cruelty to animals to have a dog spayed/neutered without a medical reason to do so. ;) In the end it's all about responsible ownership, isn't it ? I agree - it's a lot easier to cut the unwanted parts off and call it a day than having to watch a female in heat like a hawk that she won't be bred by some canine gigolo. :rolleyes: My current dogs are all fixed, because I got them this way. I did own showdogs before and they - of course - were not fixed and they did not go out and breed at free will either. I can't stand people who breed their dogs for the wrong reasons, but I have no problems with responsible breeders who breed to improve the breed and only breed after researching bloodlines, genetics and such. ;)

Fast forward: I'm all for spaying and neutering if it helps to curb the overpopulation and thus euthanasia of millions of unwanted dogs and cats in this country. Obviously there are too many individuals out there treating pets like merchandise that can be discarded like garbage. :mad: In that case spaying and neutering is the lesser evil. :dog::cat:

Dingo
July 1st, 2008, 11:34 AM
Routine neutering is promoted as a way to control the pet population, but several studies have shown that it's not always best for the animal. In particular, animals that are neutered at 12 weeks often have developmental problems. Anyway, it's not responsible pet owners who are letting their animals breed indiscriminately. The emphasis on neutering probably does little to curb rampant breeding because responsible owners--the ones most likely to get their animals fixed--don't let their dogs run wild anyway.

My current dog is around 10 months and isn't neutered. In his particular case it strikes me as unnecessary surgery (although I seem to be alone in that--it's an ongoing debate in my house). It's a toss-up who's going to prevail, but in any event I won't allow him to be neutered before he reaches a year old.

yettiyodamarlo
July 11th, 2008, 10:09 AM
....I wish any animal could come with a pamphlet about pet care attached with it(it had better include good information ><).

....

Urgh, hear HEAR!

It's so frustrating when it's your friends too, huh? You don't want to preach but at the same time a animal's well being is at stake!

I hate when people put cost before health. You have a daughter. Her lung has collapsed. A million dollars for transplant. What do you do? You most certaintly aren't going to take that money to Vegas instead (hopefully!) so why are people whining about a few hundred dollars for your animal companion for a procedure you will NEVER have to repeat AGAIN?!

I just don't understand.

My pets are not old enough to be fixed yet, but we are making a trip to the vet as soon as they are.

:pawprint:

yettiyodamarlo
July 11th, 2008, 10:14 AM
There are two sides to every story and unfortunately we have not always been told of the RISKS of spay and neuter, as well as the benefits. Here is a link to an article that presents both sides of the story, for dogs, as concerns only health. It is not biased in either direction, just presents some facts.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Perhaps those people who chose not to spay or neuter their dog had done a bit of research and are making an informed decision.

If anyone has similar information on cats a link to it would be appreciated.

P.S. this is not in any way to imply or suggest that looking after an intact animal is not a HUGE responsibility. Some of those reasons given above are a little suspect.


Thanks for pointing out there's two sides to the story, and it seems it depends what your situation is.

In my case N/S is the way to go because I have opposite gender animal companions, and I know I would not be able to properly care to the best of my ability of a litter or two of extra kittens. Also, it's not like the world needs any more kittens (I mean that in the most non offensive way possible!). As an active volunteer at a shelter, I see how many cats come and go every week, and especially during the summer, the amount of KITTENS is ridiculous. There are just not enough owners to go around. Fixing is the way to go... in my city atleast.

lm9012
July 14th, 2008, 06:01 PM
I am a firm believer in S/N. It is a must in my opinion. I remember that Oprah special. I almost was afraid to watch it and when it got to the scene of a dumpster FULL of garbage bags that were basically the bodies of all these doggies I just burst into tears. I hugged my cat Khloe and my dog Albert so tight and cried into their fur and they looked up at me like 'mom, what the heck is wrong with you, i'm trying to sleep here!!) :D

Both of them came from high kill shelters. I work with a rescue group. I think people that think not altering is OK really don't have a full understanding of what an issue overpopulation is. It's like anything, you know world hunger is bad, but unless you go to a village in a third world country or even your own country and SEE it for yourself...you can't fathom it completely.

I had a co-worker go to a breeder for her pug, although many of us are pro rescue and tried to convince her. She insisted she wanted a puppy. I urged her to check out pug rescue groups that always have puppies. She spent $600 on a puppy. Then she mentioned her and her hubby wanted to 'make the money back' by letting him stud for the breeder. I was just appalled. I asked her to spend a weekend volunteering or even visiting a shelter before she did that. She is now long left the company I don't know what she ever ended up doing. It's just a shame.

All we can do is educate the people around us. There's a lot of misconceptions that a dog is at a shelter because they are a 'problem', or only bully breeds are at shelters, or there's no purebreds at shelters..I've heard it all. How wrong all these assumptions are!

I have nothing against truly responsible breeders, unfortunately there are too many other 'oh i want my dog to have puppies' or 'oops she went out and just ended up pregnant, i don't know how this happened' or the 'i'm not taking my dog's manhood away', 'they have a right to a family', 'it will hurt her feelings if i take away her right to motherhood'.. :confused:

S/N no longer costs hundreds, so many shelters do it for under $50. And first of all, if money is such an issue, why did you go get a dog at a fancy breeder when you could get a rescued dog for under $100 with all its shots and already altered?

ok, i'm off my soapbox. It's just so frustrating. :mad:

Writing4Fun
July 15th, 2008, 09:20 AM
My neighbour just delivered another of my "favourite" lines:

"Oh, I always let my cats have one litter of kittens before I have them spayed. Otherwise, they get fat, and I can't stand looking at a fat cat."

I don't understand the logic behind this one. If that were true, then I should be thin because I had kids, right? Guess I must have missed that memo. :rolleyes: