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Poisonous Foods-Very Confused!

monkey04
April 3rd, 2008, 11:25 AM
Just looking for some clarificaiton, haha, or maybe more confusion!

I'm really confused about the conflicting information on toxic human foods for animals and the different schools of thought.

The most common ones seem to be chocolate, garlic, onion, and grapes/raisins.

Chocolate - everything from absolutely zero amounts of any chocolate to it's only the pure (bakers, cocao) that is actually toxic. The way I understand it is raiding the Hallowe'en candy will probaby give your dog the runs, but nothing too serious as the actual amount of cocao found in milk chocolate is basically nil.

Garlic - according to the ASPCA it should not be given to animals, however, there are many, many "health, safe" homemade recipes for dogs that use garlic (including recipes on this website). What's the deal? I've heard everything from seriously toxic to it actually aids digestion. Big difference...

Onion - Same thing, I've seen recipes with onion powders used, or it's seriously toxic.

Grapes/Raisins - It may give your dogs the runs, but it's not seriously harmful unless eaten in extremely large quantities which would be very difficult for any animal to actually consume the amount of grapes for it to be harmful. OR, it's deathly!

What's the deal? FYI, we feed our dog all of the above (aside from chocolate as we don't eat a lot of it) and don't have any issues whatsoever. She loves grapes, loves it when we drizzle olive oil and garlic powder(major no-no to ASPCA) over her food, won't eat raw onion but likes cooked onion. No problems.

Does it just depend on the sensitivity of the dog's stomach? Is anything truly, honestly toxic to dogs or does it depend on the breed? Ours is a pound puppy that probably scaveneged everything before being picked up. Does that make a difference? Have humans just gone over board and too "safe"? Lots of loose dogs eat, well, everything!

Thanks for any input!

Tara

SARAH
April 3rd, 2008, 11:51 AM
I agree !! :D And to top it off, they sell doggie-chocolates so what's the deal there? No cocoa in doggie-chocs? Still, we eat so little of it, no way are we sharing with the dogs :D

Onions and garlic, they only get traces if they get the soaking-water from the pan I cooked in over their food.

Grapes? Sheba doesn't care for them, Dani loves them! How can I eat grapes in front of her and not give her a single one? With her delicat stomach, never a runny problem as the result of 5-6 grapes. More she doesn't get (hey, have you seen the price of grapes lately!?)

Raisins they've never seemed to notice was anything edible (phew, I get to keep something for me!)

It's probably - again - a case of moderation. Red wine is good for you, but don't drink a whole bottle a day. Chocolate is healthy if you choose the dark (75% cocoa +) and have just a little per day, not a whole box of milk-chocolate candies filled with stuff.

Of course, I wouldn't recommend serving the dogs deep fried onion rings with a chocolate-grape desert :D but a small taste once in a while ... ? :shrug:

:2cents:

pitgrrl
April 3rd, 2008, 11:53 AM
Chocolate - everything from absolutely zero amounts of any chocolate to it's only the pure (bakers, cocao) that is actually toxic. The way I understand it is raiding the Hallowe'en candy will probaby give your dog the runs, but nothing too serious as the actual amount of cocao found in milk chocolate is basically nil.

You have this one right basically, the thing in chocolate which is toxic to dogs is highest in quantity in things like dark or bakers chocolate and in very small quantities in candy bar type things or milk chocolate. Personally, I wouldn't feed any for the simple fact that I don't want my dogs to understand chocolate as something which is appropriate for them to eat, but that's just me.


Garlic - according to the ASPCA it should not be given to animals, however, there are many, many "health, safe" homemade recipes for dogs that use garlic (including recipes on this website). What's the deal? I've heard everything from seriously toxic to it actually aids digestion. Big difference...

Again, it's a matter of amount. Garlic has a ton of health benefits, but in too large a quantity for the size of a dog it can be toxic. I've also heard of great variation between individual dog's sensitivity.

Again, just my opinion, but I would avoid garlic powder, as it is more concentrated and harder to judge the actual amount, and opt for small amount of fresh garlic if you do want to feed it.


Onion - Same thing, I've seen recipes with onion powders used, or it's seriously toxic.

My understanding of onions is that they contain the same substance which can be toxic as garlic, but in greater amounts. Where many people feed garlic (in appropriate amounts) to take advantage of it's benefits, I don't know of any advantage to feeding onion and it frankly seems not worth the risk.


Grapes/Raisins - It may give your dogs the runs, but it's not seriously harmful unless eaten in extremely large quantities which would be very difficult for any animal to actually consume the amount of grapes for it to be harmful. OR, it's deathly!


This is a trickier one as, to my knowledge, the specific cause of grape/raisin toxicity is not known, nor are the there guidelines for "safe" amounts vs. toxic amounts. I've read, for whatever it's worth, of some dogs becoming ill after ingesting a very small number of raisins, while other's needed a large amount to have an effect. It's too sketchy for me to feel comfortable feeding either, but I certainly have a few older books which suggest them as treats, so who knows :shrug:

pitgrrl
April 3rd, 2008, 11:58 AM
I agree !! :D And to top it off, they sell doggie-chocolates so what's the deal there? No cocoa in doggie-chocs?

They're usually made with carob, which is often used as a chocolate substitute.

monkey04
April 3rd, 2008, 12:11 PM
I Red wine is good for you, but don't drink a whole bottle a day.


What?! We're supposed to moderate our wine intake?! :D

Ford Girl
April 3rd, 2008, 12:11 PM
I've heard the same for choclate, onions and garlic....small quantities wont kill your dog, but its not good for them. Dog chocolates are not made of actual chocolate. :D

As for grapes/rasins, I've never read that they are safe, all the info I've found is that they are toxic, including info I recieved directly from my vet (my dogs shown toxic symptoms a few times - not related to any of these things, but I have legit info) and the amount isn't that much, as little as 2ozs can cause renal failure and severe illness, even small amounts over time can cause a lasting effect.

Do you have links to info that says grapes are ok? I have never seen anything other then they are toxic. I'd be interested in seeing the other side for sure.

Basically, if I read that any food is toxic to my dog, I wouldnt chance it. But thats just me, better safe the sorry, none of these things are a MUST HAVE for your dog and are very simple to eliminate and keep from their diets. There is no reason to feed something thats "iffy" when there are lots of natural foods that aren't linked to toxicity. :shrug:

Dr Lee
April 3rd, 2008, 08:59 PM
Grapes? Sheba doesn't care for them, Dani loves them! How can I eat grapes in front of her and not give her a single one?

Because grapes and raisins are poisonous and toxic. Grapes and raisins have been associated acute renal (kidney) failure. Furthermore kidney disease often needs to exceed 65% before it is detectable to show up on blood work. So until more information becomes available, it is suspected by some specialists that the 'grape here and the grape there' may be causing potentially permanent kidney disease. However if the damage is small, it will neither show up as clinical signs nor on blood work. If a dog lost 10% of its kidney function over time it would not necessarily ever show up on blood testing or clinically; however for this reason when I eat an oatmeal cookie I do not give any pieces to my doggies despite their amazing begging capabilities.

Some additional facts on grape and raisin toxicity: Unfortunately we have not isolated the exact toxin or its exact location location within the grape. It does appear that the toxin is within the water soluble portion of the grape and within the 'flesh' of the grape and not the seed. Currently, grape seed extract is thought as 'may be safe'. (when we identify the toxin this may change if there is a smaller amount of the toxin in the seed as well). It also seems that some pets are more susceptible than others to this toxicity. Perhaps we will find that some dogs are safe with raisins and grapes and perhaps in the future there may methods to screen pets that are susceptible as we can now for medications such as ivermectin. Also it is unknown whether grape juice is toxic or not. There is anecdotal evidence that cats are also affected.

At this time, my recommendation is to avoid all forms of grapes, raisins or their related products with both dogs and cats until we know more information. Luckily there are lots of other tasty great treats for them! Good luck. :pawprint:

sways_bodyguard
April 4th, 2008, 07:42 AM
garlic & onions are 2 (of the many) trigger things that could cause Auto-Immune Hemolytic Anemia, which is what my Sway is battling.

they specifically didnt have anything to do with our specific case but i know through research that they are linked with that disease.