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Won't come at dog run

ROD
April 1st, 2008, 01:50 PM
My dog Chester listens at home. Sit, paw, down etc. I can take him out in front of my house to pee or anything else and he will generally listen.

However, when I take him to the dog run to play off the leash with other dogs and its time to go, he won't listen. Won't come, Won't sit, not even with a treat. He will sometime follow another dog out with its owner when they leave and that sometimes works. Sometimes I'll get one of the other owners to call him or when he just comes over to grab his collar. sometimes I am alone and i sort of have to chase him. He'll run around in circles around me barking like lets play. He knows the tone of voice is not good and his tail will go down and his head a little too. Eventually I'll get him and he knows I'm mad at him.

At the moment the snow is high enough that he jumps the fence with the other dogs, but he will come back and sometimes when I yell NO, he'll actually stop at the fence and not go over.

He'll be a year on the April 19 and he is great with my kids. He's a standard poodle. This is frustrating because I know he'll listen. He's a smart dog, but he just wants to stay and have fun, even if all the other dogs have fun.

Any suggestions? Someone i see at the dog run has a shock collar type of thing on her dog that gives a mild shock when he barks to loud or to much or something like that. i wonder if they make something like that with a remote so that if he won't come, i can give him a bit of a shock until he learns to listen.

clm
April 1st, 2008, 01:57 PM
Obedience classes and lots of training homework is what your dog needs. Not a shock collar. He's still very young and excitable. Obedience classes taken with other dogs and members of your family will help make him the family pet you've always wanted.
As for jumping over the fence, we had to shovel moats around our fences many times this year because of the deep snow pack so the dogs couldn't jump over.

Cindy

ROD
April 1st, 2008, 02:09 PM
clm;

I don't want to use a collar like that either.

The fence at the dog run is a standard chain link fence. the snow is high enough that my six year old son can walk over. My back yard has an eight foot fence, I'm not worried there.

Guess I'll have to try working a little more with him. Other dogs his age seem to listen better and some of the owners said that have not gone to obedience school with them, but some have had dogs before and maybe know something I don't.:shrug:

TKW
April 1st, 2008, 02:30 PM
At 1 y.o. he's still young and training is what he needed. Some dog just remain puppy longer than others. My 2 y.o. lab is not much better. He passed his puppy class when he's 6 m.o., just barely, but with practice he's getting it. He still has selective hearing on commands. Most the time if he got enough exercise at the dog park, he'd go when told. 2 weeks ago, he'd even walk to the gate with me unleash when I asked if he wanted to go. That was the day that he got bullied by the only other dog there and he wasn't having much fun. :laughing:

ROD
April 1st, 2008, 04:47 PM
TWK;

Thanks, at least I'm not alone and I'm sure its not uncommon. Like my own kids, they hear what they want, when they want. Perhaps he is throwing a tantrum knowing I want to leave and he doesn't want to go. He listens well enough at home, why not at the dog run?

allymack
April 1st, 2008, 05:01 PM
I have the same problem, but its getting better. get a long leash for your dog and hold on to one end and take him up to the dog run and he can run around, but only the length of the long leash. Then command 'come' and if he doesnt come, give a tug on the leash, but dont reel him in, you may have to give a few tugs, to keep him coming towards you and then take his colalr when he gets to you and give him a treat, your grabbing his collar so he wont learn to do the treat run by ( he comes gets the treat and runs off again, this way he is learning to come and sit and wait) also through out the time you are there call him to you a few times even though you are not leaving, this way he will not associate come to you with ending the fun (leaving the dog run) and when you are going to leave, if at all possible walk up to him, grab his colalr, give him a treat and leave, but dont chase him. if you do need to use the come command when you are leaving do so, but make leaving as much fun for him as you can, like bouncing a ball for him a few times on the way out, lots of praise and treats. hope this helps, if you have any questions you can pm me :)

LuckyTheDog
April 2nd, 2008, 10:17 AM
The frustrating part (one of, I guess) is that when we first brought Lucky home, she would come on command every time. However she soon learned that "Come" really meant, "Get up off the warm couch now. It's time to stick your bum in a nearby snowdrift."

We go to Puppy Class and there she learned to come when shown a treat. Now she won't come unless a treat is made available. In fact now she shows up as soon as she hears my hand go into the treat bag, never mind waiting for the actual command.

This morning she would not come at all, treat or no treat. I had to walk up to her and hold the cookie under her nose and lead her to the front door.

This treat thing works but it seems to be subject to some sort of Law of Deminishing Returns. Emphasis on the word 'return'.

Rottielover
April 2nd, 2008, 01:08 PM
Once they are at the run, you are no longer their leader, they will run into the pack, until one of the other dogs establishes leadership....
Dog parks are more dangerous than good, read up on this site as to why

Lissa
April 3rd, 2008, 10:06 AM
My dog Chester listens at home. Sit, paw, down etc. I can take him out in front of my house to pee or anything else and he will generally listen.

Home and the dog park are two different things. And since you say "generally listens", I have to assume that he isn't reliable at home either.... How did you train the recall and amid what distractions? Since you are letting Chester self-reward, whatever recall command you have been using is no good. You need to re-train the recall, using a different command and lay the foundations properly. You cannot rush the recall, only when he listens 80% or better in a boring environment should you add even 1 distraction (like your kids, or a toy). Then you take it outside (with Chester on a long-line) around the neighbourhood - where you'll find squirrels, people, children, other dogs - and practice their forever and always. You need to get as close to 100% reliability as possible around minimal distractions and build up to the big one's. For most dogs, the dog park is like an 11 on a scale of 1-10... If you haven't mastered recall at level 1 (say at home or in the backyard) then its not safe for you dog to be off-leash anywhere- least of all a dog park.
The rules of recall are:
Never call Chester for anything the HE doesn't like (bath, nail clipping)... And when you work your way up to recalls at the dog park, he should have the best reward possible for coming (which for him is likely to be released again to go play)... When it is time to go, reward him with something he loves (cheese, hot dog, liver etc...)
Never use your recall word unless you are sure Chester is going to listen (in the beginning, only use it when he's already moving toward you). This ties in with self-rewarding - each time Chester self-rewards you are taking 5 steps back in the training process.
Never repeat your recall word (its said 1 time) and don't overuse it... You have to have strict criteria with "come" it must always mean come close enough so I can put me hand on your collar - you only reward for those comes, never for one's that are 2ft away or fly by's (where he breezes right past you)... I use "this way" and "closer" when I need to control my dogs movements but don't want a formal recall (that way the "come" command is never overused).
You need a high rate of reinforcement in the beginning, that switches to variable as his recall becomes more reliable. You should use a variety of rewards, not just food. But the rewards you do use, need to be high value. Also never be "fast food" when you are rewarding your dog, make sure it lasts 15-30 seconds - you don't just toss them a treat or a toy. The idea is to make YOU more rewarding.
You are never finished training recall - its constant, throughout your dog's life.
Teach an emergency recall or an emergency down. This is a command that you would only use in a life or death situation, its not something that is for you daily life. Having a command like this could save your dogs life.

Practicing self-control is also a good idea. This can be done by using stays, leave its, attention and call-off's. I used food for my dog - I'd practice him heeling around it, staying as a I threw food at him, recalling past food and releasing him to the food and then calling him off. Of course all of this is very rewarding for the dog because I always have a variety of exciting rewards and he never knows which one he'll get... I started with something boring on the floor like kibble but now can leave a hot dog or a raw bone because the foundations are all there (and he's never self-rewarded). Dodger has learned that defering to me is 100x more rewarding than giving into temptation.

Good luck!

We go to Puppy Class and there she learned to come when shown a treat. Now she won't come unless a treat is made available.
This morning she would not come at all, treat or no treat. I had to walk up to her and hold the cookie under her nose and lead her to the front door.
This treat thing works but it seems to be subject to some sort of Law of Deminishing Returns. Emphasis on the word 'return'.

Treats (or any reward) should never be used as a bribe. If you are using a rewards-based system, your dog should never know when the next reward is coming (variable reinforcement) and its best to use a variety of rewards (food, toys, tugging, freedom etc...)
Unfortunately, the school you went too, turned the treat into a bribe... It will take some work to undo that but its possible (you need to lay foundations, set your dog up for success and manage the situation so she never self-rewards).

Once they are at the run, you are no longer their leader, they will run into the pack, until one of the other dogs establishes leadership....

I have to disagree with this completely. I do not believe in dominance or alpha nonesense but even if I did, I wouldn't use it as an excuse as to why I cannot control my dog. The dog park is simply a HUGE distraction for most dogs, for most its the best reward ever. Combine that with poor obedience training, young dogs/puppies and not enough mental/physical stimulation and of course very few dogs will pay any attention to their "boring" owner at the dog park (especially since most people only call their dog to LEAVE the dog park).

mona_b
April 3rd, 2008, 10:47 AM
I so agree with you Lissa.:)

And the problem with puppy/obedience classes is that it is done indoors away from distraction.So when you try and keep up with the lessons outside,they get to distracted and won't focus.

I trained with distractions from the day they came home.It took some time but it was worth it.All my dogs were/are 100% on recall.And as my current GSD is retired from the canine unit,100% recall was a must,along with distractions.

LuckyTheDog
April 4th, 2008, 12:07 AM
best to use a variety of rewards (food, toys, tugging, freedom etc...)

That sounds like a good plan. As a start when playing 'Fetch' with my dog I have begun to insist that she goes into the 'sit' position before I will throw the ball. If nothing else I think this is good etiquette.