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High Protein

Harley's_Mom
March 30th, 2008, 07:46 PM
I've read on this site that the percentage of protein in dog food shouldn't be too high. What is considered too high and why is this bad?

luckypenny
March 30th, 2008, 09:51 PM
Protein derived from high quality meat ingredients is not bad at all. It's my understanding that foods with high protein derived from grains are what's to be avoided.

rainbow
April 1st, 2008, 03:51 AM
I agree. Protein from meat sources is the best to feed as dogs do not need grains. There is some good information on this site...

http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html

It is the calcium and phosphorous ratio that you need to watch. There is a thread about it here somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

rainbow
April 1st, 2008, 03:55 AM
Here is the thread. Click on all the links that are mentioned for additional information....

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=48372

Chris21711
April 1st, 2008, 10:57 AM
Regarding the high protein content. I was in our local Global on the weekend and the owner feeds his two small dogs Orijen and is involved in a trial with them to see if the protein is leaking into their urine. Will be interesting to see what the findings are.

rainbow
April 1st, 2008, 01:11 PM
Is this just a trial with his dogs?

Chris21711
April 1st, 2008, 01:33 PM
Is this just a trial with his dogs?

No, Orijen is conducting the trial, he said that it will last about four months. I'll find out more from him, the store was real busy and I didn't want to hold everyone up. I'm interested though, because I've been thinking of switching the dogs but have always been put off by the amount of protein and two of our guys are older, 9 and 13. Right now I give them Merrick but I might try the Horizon. He gave a bag to a couple who were in there with their allergic Boxer to try and said it was new and made in Canada. :ca::D

rainbow
April 1st, 2008, 01:40 PM
No, Orijen is conducting the trial, he said that it will last about four months. I'll find out more from him, the store was real busy and I didn't want to hold everyone up. I'm interested though, because I've been thinking of switching the dogs but have always been put off by the amount of protein and two of our guys are older, 9 and 13. Right now I give them Merrick but I might try the Horizon. He gave a bag to a couple who were in there with their allergic Boxer to try and said it was new and made in Canada. :ca::D


Very interesting....please keep us updated.

I think I may switch to Acana until the trial is over. :o

Tommysmom
April 1st, 2008, 03:10 PM
I just called Champion Foods to confirm this... after speaking to 3 different people there, nobody has heard anything at all about a study like this. I'm waiting for a call back from one other fellow there, but it does not sound as though there is such a study being conducted by Orijen.

wdawson
April 1st, 2008, 07:46 PM
if this would be true.....its very scary that food companies can play with the food and call it a study......if they get caught:rolleyes:

Chris21711
April 2nd, 2008, 09:41 AM
I'll be going in again later this week, I will ask more. Maybe I got my wires crossed :confused:

Harley's_Mom
April 2nd, 2008, 06:10 PM
The Orijin is what started all of this. We were wondering if our pup is having issues with the Wellness, and were looking at switching foods. Tova is now on a rice and chicken diet, to settle her system, and I'll go from there. We knew Orijen was supposed to be good, but were concerned that it was too much protein. Thanks for all the info!

pitgrrl
April 2nd, 2008, 08:49 PM
Here's another article (http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=protein_myth) on the subject.

rainbow
April 2nd, 2008, 09:40 PM
Chris21711, I asked Peter @ Champion Pet Foods about this "trial" and here is his reply....

Hello ***** – nothing could be further from the truth. Can I ask where on earth you heard this?

Kindest regards,
Peter A. Muhlenfeld

Champion Petfoods Ltd.
T 780.939.6888

www.championpetfoods.com

Chris21711
April 3rd, 2008, 09:28 AM
Like I said, I will ask again, he definately said that he was taking part in a trial to see if the protein was leaking into their urine in Barrie, Ontario. Maybe I just assumed it was with Orijen and it is a private study done by another group. :confused:

Harley's_Mom
April 3rd, 2008, 06:54 PM
I am really interseted in the Orijen, from the articles you have all provided. It has the highest protein levels, while talking about quality too. Plus, they have a Large Breed puppy food. Comparing it to Wellness puppy... any opinions? Plus, from Tova being a little sick, lots of people have said about feeding her yogurt. I made sure it was the right stuff, and she loves it. I have also read that some people feed yogurt to their dogs on a regular basis. Any need for that, and if so, what is the reasoning, and what amounts and intervals?
Thanks

rainbow
April 7th, 2008, 11:46 AM
I give my dogs a couple of spoons of plain organic yogurt every day with their supper meal. The active cultures in yogurt contain beneficial bacteria that is good for the gut.

rainbow
April 7th, 2008, 11:47 AM
Like I said, I will ask again, he definately said that he was taking part in a trial to see if the protein was leaking into their urine in Barrie, Ontario. Maybe I just assumed it was with Orijen and it is a private study done by another group. :confused:

Did you ever get clarification on this?

Chris21711
April 7th, 2008, 12:06 PM
No not yet Rainbow, I'm going in tomorrow and will be sure to ask.

rainbow
April 7th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Thanks Chris. :thumbs up :o

Chris21711
April 9th, 2008, 09:22 AM
OK I went to Global yesterday, I did assume that it was being conducted by Orijen. I was wrong. He owns four Border Terriers and feeds them Orijen, with the exception of his older guy, whom he feeds raw. His Vet in Barrie has concerns that the protein level is too high and it is she that is conducting the tests to see if there is too much protein in their urine. To date she has tested them 3 times and there are only trace amounts which is considered normal. They will be testing once monthly for the next three months. He said that he does not think that the results will change. Sorry for the mistake, the store was busy when I first spoke with him and I didn't think it was right to hold people up. Mea culpa :o

rainbow
April 9th, 2008, 12:42 PM
Chris, thanks so much for the clarification. :thumbs up I was a wee bit concerned since I feed Orijen to my boys and recommend it so much on this forum. :o

Chris21711
April 9th, 2008, 01:07 PM
Sorry for the scare. I'm real tempted to use the Orijen but am still a bit concerned about the high protein. I just switched from Merrick with grains to Merrick no grain, their protein level is 32%. I have to check the other levels properly. I'm new at this, up until a year ago I just fed good old Dog food, they use sweet potato and that has a lot of carbs apparently?

Harley's_Mum :sorry: to go on on your Orijen thread.

Love4himies
April 9th, 2008, 01:23 PM
I can say that since my senior Puddles (feline) has changed to a high quality protein (including a small amount of orijen) from a food that had grain based proteins, she has built wonderful muscle mass and is so much more active. I know she is a feline, but I think the theory of quality protein is the same. The higher the quality, the better for their health, the lower that gets excreted through the kidneys.

Oh BTW if anybody is on the orijen website, check out the testimonials, they posted a picture of my Puddles in the bag of orijen, eating.

rainbow
April 9th, 2008, 01:28 PM
:sorry:

Harley's_Mom, I'm sorry too ....I'll start a new thread. :o

Mia101
April 11th, 2008, 08:54 PM
I have two pounds of Wellness Core the cat will not eat.

I know that cat food is not good for dogs, but I was wondering if this specific one might be healthy for treats?

With the (little) amount of research I've done, it seems treat-sized amounts of this would be good for the dog?


Deboned Turkey, Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whitefish Meal, Potatoes, Salmon Meal, Natural Chicken Flavor. Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, a natural source of Vitamin E), Tomato Pomace, Cranberries, Chicory Root Extract, Salmon Oil, Flaxseed, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement), Choline Chloride, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Dried Kelp, Taurine, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Rosemary Extract

Chaser
April 11th, 2008, 09:43 PM
The one caution I have heard is that feeding a really high protein food to puppies (esp. large breeds) can harm their joints and cause bone problems as they grow too fast. So it may be safer to have a pup on food with 20-25% protein instead of 40+%

I'm planning on switching my pup to Orijen eventually, but not until he's 1.5 to 2 years. Once i know he's grown I don't see a problem with it!

Only other bit of advice I have is introduce a high protein food REALLY slowly to avoid doggy dhiarrhea....the grain-free foods can be especially bad for this! Icky :yuck:

Harley's_Mom
April 12th, 2008, 09:49 AM
The one caution I have heard is that feeding a really high protein food to puppies (esp. large breeds) can harm their joints and cause bone problems as they grow too fast. So it may be safer to have a pup on food with 20-25% protein instead of 40+%

I'm planning on switching my pup to Orijen eventually, but not until he's 1.5 to 2 years. Once i know he's grown I don't see a problem with it!

Only other bit of advice I have is introduce a high protein food REALLY slowly to avoid doggy dhiarrhea....the grain-free foods can be especially bad for this! Icky :yuck:

I also have heard the concern reference large breed puppies growing too fast. That's why I really want to be able to feed Tova the Orijen Large Breed Puppy Food cause it's specially formulated so they don't end up with joint and bone problems.
Thanks for confirming the diarrhea due to high protein diet. We've been having diarrhea issues and wondered if their was a link. We're introducing the food very,very slowly. She's only getting a small handful mixed in with her rice and chicken once a day. We've def seen some progress. Very soft stool now as opposed to diarrhea.

rainbow
April 12th, 2008, 01:34 PM
The one caution I have heard is that feeding a really high protein food to puppies (esp. large breeds) can harm their joints and cause bone problems as they grow too fast. So it may be safer to have a pup on food with 20-25% protein instead of 40+%

It is NOT the high protein that you should be concerned about. It is the calcium and especially phosphorous levels. Read the information is this thread and click on all the references that are given for additional information.....

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=48372

Chaser
April 12th, 2008, 03:35 PM
It is NOT the high protein that you should be concerned about. It is the calcium and especially phosphorous levels. Read the information is this thread and click on all the references that are given for additional information.....

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=48372

Sorry, just wanted to clarify I only said I had "heard" that caution....I wasn't trying to pass it off as knowledge, because I don't actually know. I just meant it as more of a comment....that I can understand Harley's_Mom concerns, as I am hearing similar things and trying to learn the facts :o

Harley's_Mom
April 12th, 2008, 04:52 PM
It is NOT the high protein that you should be concerned about. It is the calcium and especially phosphorous levels. Read the information is this thread and click on all the references that are given for additional information.....

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=48372

Exactly and fortunately Orijen has address this concern.

The following is from their website:

By utilizing special low-ash chicken and fish ingredients, ORIJEN PUPPY LARGE avoids the high ash levels—and subsequently elevated calcium and phosphorus—that are a common concern for large breed puppy owners on high-protein diets.

Mia101
April 12th, 2008, 06:26 PM
Wellness Core and Orijin claim to have the correct balance of phosphorous and calcium, it's not just the levels but the ratios to each other that are important.


I hope they claim correctly (that the levels and ratios are right).:)

And I hope y'all are right about protein levels because it's not cut and dried from what I read, there is controversy over it.

Harley's_Mom
April 12th, 2008, 07:40 PM
Wellness Core and Orijin claim to have the correct balance of phosphorous and calcium, it's not just the levels but the ratios to each other that are important.


I hope they claim correctly (that the levels and ratios are right).:)

And I hope y'all are right about protein levels because it's not cut and dried from what I read, there is controversy over it.

I hope they are right too but really what can I do but believe them when Orijen tells me that their product is good for my pets. Compared to some of the other foods out there, Orijen looks pretty good to me. My dogs make regular visits to the vet and I have enough faith in my vet that I know they will tell me if there is any health concerns with Harley or Tova.

Harley's_Mom
April 12th, 2008, 07:49 PM
I agree. Protein from meat sources is the best to feed as dogs do not need grains. There is some good information on this site...

http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html

It is the calcium and phosphorous ratio that you need to watch. There is a thread about it here somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks Rainbow. I finally got a chance to check out the link. It was extremely informative. I have to say that I am impressed with Orijen. I find their website very informative and I like the fact that they are a Canadian company and relatively speaking a small company. As well I haven't found a whole lot of dog food companies that provide a formula specific to large breed puppies.

geisha
April 13th, 2008, 01:27 PM
I was wondering if anyone could comment about only giving high protein dog food to pregnant, lactating, recovering from surgery, highly active, working dogs, & senior dogs and for a short time. I realize the importance of this, I'm not so sure about giving it to a normal activity level, adult dog. Cheers.

Harley's_Mom
April 13th, 2008, 01:45 PM
I was wondering if anyone could comment about only giving high protein dog food to pregnant, lactating, recovering from surgery, highly active, working dogs, & senior dogs and for a short time. I realize the importance of this, I'm not so sure about giving it to a normal activity level, adult dog. Cheers.

From what I understand through posts and links on here as well as other sites, the issue isn't so much the level of protein as where the protein is coming from. The difference between protein from grain or from meat. I think as well a lot would depend on the breed and size of the dog. As the owner of a large breed puppy, my biggest concern is her rate of growth and it's effects on her bones and joints. Orijen seems to have addressed this concern better than most.