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When is it time to say goodbye

scotswop
March 30th, 2008, 04:17 PM
:angel2:My friend took her cat to be euthanized last week. I have been trying to talk her into it for months. I felt bad nagging her, but her cat was 22 and was pooping and peeing everywhere. She told me that that was his only problem and that she just thought he was senile. I kept asking her if he was in pain and she said no. Well as I said she finally took him to the vet and the nice lady vet took one look and said it was time.

It turns out that the cat had been going down hill for a while and my friend just couldn't bear to let him go as she thought they would gas him and she wouldn't be able to hold him and let him go lovingly (as gassing was what her previous vet did to her last cat she had put to sleep).

Was I being cruel to insist she take him to be euthanized. I really believe in letting animals go if they are suffering. I believe in the same thing for humans, and think we are cruel for keeping them alive just for our good.

Frenchy
March 30th, 2008, 04:30 PM
Was I being cruel to insist she take him to be euthanized. I really believe in letting animals go if they are suffering. I believe in the same thing for humans, and think we are cruel for keeping them alive just for our good.

I agree with you 100%. When a pet is too sick or too old and can't hold it anymore ... it's a sign of loosing their quality of life and my opinion is : that means it is time to say goodbye. :sad:

My vet told me some people bring their animals to get euthanize ,they have to carry them in .... the animal is not able to walk anymore , that is waiting too long and making the animal suffer. You can't wait that long to say goodbye. :shrug:

Love4himies
March 30th, 2008, 05:44 PM
I agree with Frenchy. I did that with Snowball when he had cancer, even after my vet recommended I make a decision 1 week before I did. :cry: Never again. It was selfish of me.

:rip:my absolutely precious Snowball :candle: Love you forever.

Frenchy
March 30th, 2008, 06:00 PM
I make a decision 1 week before I did. :cry: Never again. It was selfish of me.

:rip:my absolutely precious Snowball :candle: Love you forever.

You know , it's hard to know for sure when it is time and even harder when it's the first time you deal with this. Daisy had cancer , when she stopped eating , I would hand feed her , it worked for a while , then she refused to eat the kibble so I hand fed her ground beef , rice , baby meat food , .... I will not do this again :sad:

Sylvie28
April 4th, 2008, 07:23 PM
My 11 y.o. shih tzu, Roo, was diagnozed with general stomach cancer, she went from 12 pounds to 9 pounds. She doesn't want to leave us. We carry her outside for her business. She doesn't want to eat the really good $3.00 can of food but we've been giving her roast beef, pork, cooked hamberger meat, bacon, eggs etc. She loves it, we make sure she drinks water. In the past we never gave her table food because she would get diahrea. My husband said that we might as well give her what makes her happy for her last days with us. She sleeps alot, she walks to change spots or for her business but that's about it. I don't have the courage to have her euthanized at least until she can't stand on her four legs. Wow, while I'm writing this she go up and drink. The other reason why we don't have the courage to have her euthanized is that my daughter has been praying so much for a miracle, we've all heard about miracle, so we never know it might appen to us. There's so much love in my family that I think that's what is keeping her alive. The vet said that her red cell count is at 12% and that she has water on or in her lungs. He was amazed, last week that she was still eating and drinking, he said she only has a few days left. I'm sorry but I needed to share this and I'm also sorry about my poor english writing, you haven't heard my accent, it's even worst because I don't pronounc the h and th

aslan
April 4th, 2008, 07:33 PM
aaaw sylvie its time to let go really. Your baby is in pain and is just holding on for you. I can see you really love her, and your last act of love will be making the pain stop. hmmm no h or th, newfie by any chance.

Sylvie28
April 4th, 2008, 07:46 PM
French from Montréal but in BC since 1987 with a french men and I also work in a french school, I don't practice my english as much as my french.

Roo doesn't seem to suffer, like I said earlier, we will do something when she won't be able to stand on her four legs. She still waggles her tail, I would think that she wouldn't wag if she would suffer.

aslan
April 4th, 2008, 07:51 PM
well i have no doubt she is going to feel loved right up to the end, spoil her rotten. Sorry your going through such a rough time.:grouphug:

Frenchy
April 4th, 2008, 07:57 PM
we will do something when she won't be able to stand on her four legs.

Hi Sylvie , see , waiting for your dog to not be able to walk anymore is waiting too long. Please have a talk with your vet , describe everything your dog is going through and ask for his opinion. It's a very hard decision to make , but it's not fair to let your dog suffer. :grouphug:

Sylvie28
April 4th, 2008, 08:38 PM
I ask my vet if she was suffering last week because that was my biggest concern and he said no, that she will be sleeping alot until the end.

Thank you aslan for your support, it's really appreciated.

Yes we are sploiling her rotten, her 5 y.o. puppy, Muffin, is jalous when she doesn't get the same food.

The other morning I woke up and didn't see Roo in her basket so I tought she was dead on the balcony, but my daughter brought her in her room to sleep with her overnight. My husband said, that's why Muffin was scraching the gate around 2 am and woke me up.

Spatx
April 4th, 2008, 10:00 PM
This hits close to home, as my 13 year old dog has bad arthritis. He gets up to go outside, eat, drink, and beg, but other than that he lies on his pillow all day. He can't go for walks anymore, nor make it up or down stairs. One of his back legs is pretty wobbly and his rear end posture is terrible. I've been trying to talk to my family about how do we know when it's time. I'd like to think he's still very happy, but sometimes I just don't know. He is the family dog, and my parents need to make a decision - I can't make it alone. I know his arthritis hurts him and he is in pain when he walks... I know it is getting close to his time, I know we can't keep him with us for another year, that would be selfish.

So really... I think my parents need to hear another opinion outside the family to help us understand when it is time. I don't want him to suffer and only be holding on because of us. :sad:

Sylvie28
April 5th, 2008, 01:35 AM
This is so sad for you to :sorry:to ear about this. Hope this :grouphug:will make you feel better.

marko
April 5th, 2008, 06:51 AM
I'm sorry you are going through this Sylvie28. :sorry:

I did want to add one thing though more as a comment to the first post (and future visitors), and this is only a personal opinion.

My friend took her cat to be euthanized last week. I have been trying to talk her into it for months. I felt bad nagging her, but her cat was 22 and was pooping and peeing everywhere. She told me that that was his only problem and that she just thought he was senile. I kept asking her if he was in pain and she said no. Well as I said she finally took him to the vet and the nice lady vet took one look and said it was time.

It turns out that the cat had been going down hill for a while and my friend just couldn't bear to let him go as she thought they would gas him and she wouldn't be able to hold him and let him go lovingly (as gassing was what her previous vet did to her last cat she had put to sleep).

Was I being cruel to insist she take him to be euthanized. I really believe in letting animals go if they are suffering. I believe in the same thing for humans, and think we are cruel for keeping them alive just for our good.

For me - Pain and serious discomfort is the ultimate marker for when the time is closest to being right. We also need to really think about WHO is suffering. Is it the pet or the human? It is likely in some cases (probably NOT this case though since the vet agreed) that sometimes we euthanize too soon. We see our pets' health failing and we the witnesses are actually suffering more than the pet at a given point in time. Although this is such a personal decision, 'suffering' is a very subjective thing. Although loss of bowel and urinary control are not good (or fun), that in itself would not make it 'time' for me. That in combination with not eating and pain, yes then it's likely the right time. When in doubt ask your vet and other pet lovers. We'll always give you our best advice...

Love4himies
April 5th, 2008, 07:23 AM
Oh Sylvie, please don't put your dog through unecessary pain:sad:. Aslan and Frenchy are right and are thinking of your beloved dog. Please do what is best for your dog.

:grouphug: So sorry you are going through this very painful time.:cry:

RUSTYcat
April 5th, 2008, 01:13 PM
I discovered this thread shortly after it began.

Because this subject is near and dear to me - from both personal experience and from day-to-day participation in an online support group of parents of cats with chronic kidney failure - I subscribed to the thread.

There are two points about this thread that I want to address. The first:

Up until Sylvie28 joined the thread, other posters were voicing their opinions on when they believed the "right time" to let go would be. FINE.

Mind you, the person who started the thread asked a question that has not yet been answered. (If you really want to understand what I'm going to say here, take a moment, scroll on back to that first post and, actually read it.)

The unanswered question...
Was I being cruel to insist she take him to be euthanized

OK. scotswop asked for opinions on this

I will offer mine: I'm not sure about you're having been "cruel". I'm more inclined to offer that I think the way you intervened was inappropriate. I believe you took away your friend's rights and responsibility for/toward her her cat. It sounds to me that you manipulated the outcome to suit your own perception of what should be. By your own statement, you
(had) been trying to talk her into it for months. I felt bad nagging her
You then justify your "trying to talk her into it" and "nagging" by saying
but her cat was 22 and was pooping and peeing everywhere
It seems to me that your friend attempted to have you understand her position
She told me that that was his only problem and that she just thought he was senile. I kept asking her if he was in pain and she said no
(Note that I highlighted the "kept asking her" part.)

Now, scotswop, rather than say 'You should have done this/that', I will say this: If I were in that situation, I think I would not have been "trying to talk her into it for months" nor "nagging her". I do think I would have suggested some options/alternatives for her to choose from. (For example, there are diapers available for cats!) It seems to me that it must have been a long time since she took her cat to the Vet, anyway. I would have talked to my friend about the importance of more frequent "wellness checks" for senior cats, and encouraged her to arrange for one. I might have said 'Well, maybe Fluffy isn't senile, maybe the Vet will suggest something...'

My point is that I would feel that I 'had done right by my friend' by supporting her making her own decisions without any undue influence from me.

Now, back to your post. You then went on to say
t turns out that the cat had been going down hill for a while and my friend just couldn't bear to let him go as she thought they would gas him and she wouldn't be able to hold him and let him go lovingly (as gassing was what her previous vet did to her last cat she had put to sleep).

That part would appear to say you feel satisfied/comfortable/justified in doing what you did.

But, immediately after, you're having second thoughts??????
Was I being cruel........
I would just mirror all this back to you and say, 'If, on the one hand, you're so sure that what you did was "right", why are you questioning what you did?'

Only you can answer that.


I said I wanted to address two points in this thread. The second arose just after Sylvie28 posted. I have some very strong feelings over this..frankly I'm angry and distressed over what I see going on in that part of the thread.
http://bestsmileys.com/angry1/5.gif
I have some things that must get done this aft...so I'll go do them - which will also give me a chance to make sure I think out clearly what I'm going to say and - more importantly, how I'm going to say it.

Love4himies
April 7th, 2008, 08:35 AM
I will offer mine: I'm not sure about you're having been "cruel". I'm more inclined to offer that I think the way you intervened was inappropriate. I believe you took away your friend's rights and responsibility for/toward her her cat. It sounds to me that you manipulated the outcome to suit your own perception of what should be. By your own statement, you



I looked back on this thread to see if you continued with your reply.

I am a person who feels people have to take responsibility for their actions and not blame others, period. The OP's friend had several choices:

1. take friends advice and put the cat down,
2. ignore the comments from the OP and not put the cat down,
3. or ask the OP to be quiet and mind her own business,
4. stop socializing with OP if she didn't want to hear unsolicited comments.

Because the OP did not forcibly take the cat and put it down, then she didn't take away her friends rights or repsonsibilities. Her responsibility was towards her cat, not listening to her friend.

Too many people in North America are so quick to lay blame for their actions. They always have an excuse as to why they did or didn't do something.

Was there better recommendations the OP could have given, yes, the wellness testing as you suggested. That should have also been suggested the by the friends vet as well.

Just my :2cents:.

Frenchy
April 7th, 2008, 11:30 AM
The unanswered question...





I suggest YOU read the posts again.

aslan
April 7th, 2008, 12:01 PM
I figure she decided we weren't wrong. My opinion is you don't want the answer to a question, don't ask it.