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RANT: Designer Breeders.

Chibi
March 20th, 2008, 11:11 AM
Sometimes I like to browse Kijiji (where we found Guinness) just to look at the puppies and whine at my boyfriend about getting another one. :laughing: Of course, it's all in good fun, but the fun is ruined whenever I am page-surfing.
"To Give away...!"
"For sale - reduced price...!"
"Great deal on ...!"
And all of these puppies are 'designer' breeds. The way I see it is that people think "A ChihuahuaxDaschund? How adorable! I bet it will look so cute and small!" And they come out with some kind of little weirdo, because they have NO idea what they are doing when it comes to breeding, but they know the idea will sell. Putting aesthetics aside, these people also don't know anything about the health issues that they are cramming together into this genetically unstable pup. Chihuahua's have all kinds of health problems, and are nervous enough as a breed as it is - mix in some faulty breeding, Daschie back problems, and you've got a fragile dog with potential temperament issues.
So, your average pet owner hears about them, takes the Adorableness bait hook, line and sinker... And then are very disappointed when their cute puppy grows up to be... Not so cute.

http://kijiji.ebayimg.com/i24/04/k/000/79/61/b95e_20.JPG?set_id=1C4000
Here is a DachshundxChihuahua. It seems to have the Daschie body and neck, but it looks like all of it's other extremities (head, legs, tail) are portions of a chihuahua that were just pasted on. Of all the mixed breeds I have seen, this one looks the most unnatural. For the low, low price of 250$ you can have this sweet little puppy a family doesn't want anymore... For a GOOD reason, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

Poor little thing.

ancientgirl
March 20th, 2008, 02:18 PM
I hate seeing things like that. All of those animals are just commerce to them, it's horrible.

I don't get this "designer" breed thing nowadays. I don't know squat about breeding dogs or cats, but, if a breed of dog is mixed with another breed of dog, isn't that called a mutt? I know that many of the pure breeds were developed over many years but they were developed by using dogs of the same breed no? :shrug:

Chibi
March 20th, 2008, 02:52 PM
Apparently if you breed a purebreed with another purebreed, while it is still a mutt, it is still better than a Heinz 57? Why would I pay 500$ for a poorly bred crossbreed when I can get a purebreed from a dependable breeder at equal cost and know that I can feel confident in his genes, and that I can contact the breeder if anything went wrong.

More and more of these little guys end up in the pounds because of this kind of irresponsible behaviour. :mad:

Harley's_Mom
March 20th, 2008, 02:53 PM
My furbaby Harley is I guess one of these supposed designer breeds. He's a Shih Tzu x Poodle. Back in the day he would be called a mutt. But he's a loveable mutt and yes, I bought and paid for him. He's been part of our family for a year and I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world.

Chibi
March 20th, 2008, 03:01 PM
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Mixed Breeds are bad dogs, and most of them are very loveable. My first dog - a Heinz 57 - lived for 23 years (My dad had him before I was even born) and he was the best dog my parents say they ever owned.
It's the gimmick of design breeding that bothers me, because it is because of irresponsible breeding that cat and dog populations are so high, and thus making it so more and more and euthanized every day.

ancientgirl
March 20th, 2008, 06:16 PM
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Mixed Breeds are bad dogs, and most of them are very loveable. My first dog - a Heinz 57 - lived for 23 years (My dad had him before I was even born) and he was the best dog my parents say they ever owned.
It's the gimmick of design breeding that bothers me, because it is because of irresponsible breeding that cat and dog populations are so high, and thus making it so more and more and euthanized every day.

I agree. All dogs and cats are beautiful in their own way and they are loveable little creatures who need love. But these breeders are just interested n making money any way they can. They don't care that some of these animals may wind up in rescues, or worse.:sad:

Harley's_Mom
March 20th, 2008, 07:49 PM
I agree that many of these people are just in it for the money but then so are a lot of people who breed "purebreds". I really think that paying thousands of dollars for a dog based on things like pedigree or how good it looks for showing is nuts. How does a breeder decide if a dog is "show quality" or "pet quality"? I honestly would love to know. Personally I bet the puppy who ends up as a pet has a much happier life than the show dog because for most people a pet becomes part of their family, not an investment. Sorry, didn't mean to digress. I do get a little touchy about the whole designer breed issue cause poor Harley gets lumped in there.

Kashi
March 20th, 2008, 08:00 PM
We've got one of those "designer breeds", and I have such a hard time bringing myself to use the designer term when asked what he is.

It just seems more honest and accurate to say he's a Pug / Beagle mix, than to call him a Puggle and expect anyone to understand me.

Chibi
March 20th, 2008, 08:18 PM
A pure breeder IS in it for the money. It's a job more than it is a passion - but they take the time to research and ensure that the dog comes from good stock, and never breed dogs with temperament or health issues - This is the importance of buying from a reputable breeder.
I paid for a purebred dog that happened to come from an impressive line of champions. I was not predisposed to buying a dog like this, I've owned mutts and purebreds alike my entire life - I just thought the dog was cute, and the fact that he had such an impressive family history made me feel better about the price. A dog that was bred well is more predictable when it comes to his health and temperament, and because his ancestors were all well trained champions, he has a predisposition for learning. I can feel safe in the knowledge that since none of his ancestors have had a any history or epilepsy or back problems, he is less likely to encounter them himself. Also, there are a lot of shady 'breeders' in this area.

I love all dogs. My favourite cats are mixed and in between all breeds. I have nothing against them, and I would be happy to have one in my home.
Most mixed breeds are happy and healthy. But it's the PEOPLE I don't like - the people who don't take breed characteristic and vulnerabilities into account when they decide they need some quick cash.
I could easily stud out Guinness to whatever female that needed impregnating - but then I would be partially responsible for any defects or unhappiness in those puppies lives. Like my example of that ChiDaschie in my original post. It is not a good looking dog (and that is a big factor when it comes to having a pet - people choose the cutest, sweetest puppy) and 9 times out of 10, if you put an 'ugly' dog beside a gorgeous one, which one is going to be adopted first? But it's not their fault if they are awkward looking, or if their colouring is off, or if they were born deaf or blind. They are a victim of circumstance.

I've known so many people who have been disappointed in how their pets turned out, for both their looks and their health. People are innately selfish, and a lot of the time when pets are given up it's for selfish reasons, not a real need - don't they? Not everyone is like that, but a lot are. Animals are objects to a lot of people.

I just think it is sad. Just like people who don't give their pets vaccinations, or spay/neuter their outside cats. If people took just a little more responsibility when it came to animals, there would be a lot less heartache.

clm
March 20th, 2008, 08:23 PM
I agree that many of these people are just in it for the money but then so are a lot of people who breed "purebreds". I really think that paying thousands of dollars for a dog based on things like pedigree or how good it looks for showing is nuts. How does a breeder decide if a dog is "show quality" or "pet quality"? I honestly would love to know. Personally I bet the puppy who ends up as a pet has a much happier life than the show dog because for most people a pet becomes part of their family, not an investment. Sorry, didn't mean to digress. I do get a little touchy about the whole designer breed issue cause poor Harley gets lumped in there.

People like myself buy a purebred from a reputable breeder because we have found a breed with characteristics best suited to us. We've had 4 keeshonden now and researched for a very long time before chosing this breed over 20 years ago.
Breeders chose pet and show quality dogs based on how close they are to the breed standard. Some dogs love the show ring, others don't. The ones that don't get placed into loving pet homes. Some retired show dogs also get placed into loving pet homes if a breeder decides that the dog doesn't fit into their breeding program. All of the breeders that I've got my dogs from over the years all were involved in rescue groups for their breed and all of them truly cared about the welfare of their dogs.
As for designer breeds. They've been around for years in every pound and shelter. They're full of mixed breed dogs, big and small and every mix you could ever want. Nothing in the world wrong with a mixed breed dog, just don't buy one from some hack breeding to make money. Get one from a foster home or a shelter instead of encouraging puppy mills and byb's.

Cindy

Chibi
March 20th, 2008, 08:28 PM
People like myself buy a purebred from a reputable breeder because we have found a breed with characteristics best suited to us. We've had 4 keeshonden now and researched for a very long time before chosing this breed over 20 years ago.
Breeders chose pet and show quality dogs based on how close they are to the breed standard. Some dogs love the show ring, others don't. The ones that don't get placed into loving pet homes. Some retired show dogs also get placed into loving pet homes if a breeder decides that the dog doesn't fit into their breeding program. All of the breeders that I've got my dogs from over the years all were involved in rescue groups for their breed and all of them truly cared about the welfare of their dogs.
As for designer breeds. They've been around for years in every pound and shelter. They're full of mixed breed dogs, big and small and every mix you could ever want. Nothing in the world wrong with a mixed breed dog, just don't buy one from some hack breeding to make money. Get one from a foster home or a shelter instead of encouraging puppy mills and byb's.

Cindy

:highfive: The lab/shepherd in the breeders arms has more of a chance at life than the lab/shepherd behind bars in the pound. I am no expert or statistician but I would be willing to bet that there are more mixed breeds that are forgotten in pounds than purebreeds. :sad:

Harley's_Mom
March 20th, 2008, 08:57 PM
Purebred, designer breed or good ole mutt... I guess the most important thing is that we all love our furbabies and that they're all happy and healthy.

LavenderRott
March 20th, 2008, 09:05 PM
A pure breeder IS in it for the money. It's a job more than it is a passion - but they take the time to research and ensure that the dog comes from good stock, and never breed dogs with temperament or health issues - This is the importance of buying from a reputable breeder.


I know several ETHICAL breeders and not one of them makes a dime off a litter of puppies. By the time the adults are shown to a Championship to show that it meets the standard, has all of it's health certifications for genetic issues (not a quick trip to the local vet), taken the time to train and show in a working venue - the breeder has spent a TON of money. And that doesn't even begin to take into account the cost of the breeding, prenatal vetting and the vetting of the puppies.

Personally, I could care less about a breeders reputation. I want to know about their ethics.

clm
March 20th, 2008, 09:43 PM
I know several ETHICAL breeders and not one of them makes a dime off a litter of puppies. By the time the adults are shown to a Championship to show that it meets the standard, has all of it's health certifications for genetic issues (not a quick trip to the local vet), taken the time to train and show in a working venue - the breeder has spent a TON of money. And that doesn't even begin to take into account the cost of the breeding, prenatal vetting and the vetting of the puppies.

Personally, I could care less about a breeders reputation. I want to know about their ethics.

Absolutely true, not one of the breeders I've dealt with made money at it. The cost of showing and breeding was more than they ever got from selling their pups. They all had sidelines that they made their money to support their passion for showing dogs and contributing to the betterment of their breed. None of these people lived like kings, all the money went to the dogs. That's why I chose each of these breeders, their dogs came first, always.

Cindy

Chibi
March 20th, 2008, 10:07 PM
Absolutely true, not one of the breeders I've dealt with made money at it. The cost of showing and breeding was more than they ever got from selling their pups. They all had sidelines that they made their money to support their passion for showing dogs and contributing to the betterment of their breed. None of these people lived like kings, all the money went to the dogs. That's why I chose each of these breeders, their dogs came first, always.

Cindy

It was the same for our breeder. All of her dogs were showdogs, but she had all of her old retirees at home as well. I could tell how much she cared for the oldest, he was 16 and had weak bladder control and bad eyes - I could see she cared for her dogs very much, and she certainly wasn't living in the lap of luxury - my parents have a nicer house than her. I found that she was responsible, caring and was ready to tell me no if she didn't like me.
All I meant was that a person who breeds dogs gets some money out of it, and that I didn't mean to say they were on a moral high horse compared to Designer Breeders, who breed for money. Her husband owned his own business and that was why she was able to afford to travel and show her dogs all over Canada and the USA. She was a very nice lady, and I would suggest her to any of my friends who were looking for a furbaby of their own. =)

kiara
March 21st, 2008, 01:38 PM
This is my opinion only! THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY TO BE MADE IN THIS INDUSRTY!!! And as long as the public wants these designer, pure breed dogs and cats, the breeders and puppy mills will continue to breed them. SUPPLY AND DEMAND. These dogs (and cats) may look cute and they will have chronic conditions and possibly ailments all their life. They will keep their owners stressed and the vets rich. THEREFORE MY MOTTO IS, GET YOUR PETS FROM RESCUES, save a life and make a friend that will give you unconditional love.

SARAH
March 21st, 2008, 02:03 PM
To make money as a reputable breeder, you'd have to have one or two champion males and a lot of females so that you would always have 2 or more litters available at any given time.

And even then, add the vet bills and the food and whatever else - higher vet bills for some breeds than others due to issues like ceasarians for some, tail-cutting for others and other issues again - as well as the travelling and showing costs, grooming, + + + ...

In other words, you need a lot of maney to start with, if you want to make money on breeding, serious breeding that is.

Puppy-mill breeders probably make more money (or more easily) since they don't care if the females have a rest period between litters like the reputable breeders do.

Mutt-breeders? Can you even call them breeders?

Yes, a pure-bred was made by cross-breeding. Sometimes the same breed, sometimes with a mix of something else; but always looking out for genes and getting the best of the best; usually with a specific purpose in mind for the final outcome as well.

Mutt-breeding/ "designer"breeding, is more in line with mad-scientist experimenting IMO. And that poor dog in the OP ... poor thing is downright ugly :sad: I hope he's sweet natured enough to be loved by someone :fingerscr:

Gibbons
March 21st, 2008, 04:47 PM
I guess this isn't really a "designer breed" thing, but I just saw an add for a 3-yr old "purebred" chocolate lab, male. Not neutered, no shots, no deworming. They "don't have time for him," say he's "great with kids and cats" but he's NEVER been inside before - they only kept him for breeding purposes (they don't want him cuz they're not breeding their female anymore)

Not have time for him? Good with kids and cats? How the hell would they know if he was outside in his chicken-wire cage all the time (it was in the PICTURE!)? :wall:

Must stop browsing the internet. It makes me angry.
I wonder- are there lab rescues that might take him? 3 years is too young to be a puppy mill dog :(

joeysmama
March 21st, 2008, 07:04 PM
I think that a mixed breed dog is great !! I object to dogs being bred as "designer" breeds to make money. There are plenty of homeless mutts (and I use that word with affection--not in a derogatory way) who need homes.

We know two families in town who have "cock-a-poos". Both dogs are black and that's about where it ends. One weighs about 10 pounds and the other is closer to 40. They are different in size, temperament and features. So if someone sees one "designer" dog and thinks they want one like it they may wind up getting something completely different.

And we all know what happens when a dog doesn't live up to it's owners expectations. Their kid develops an "allergy" to the dog right ??:rolleyes: And then its off to the nearest pound.:mad::mad::mad:

Chibi
March 21st, 2008, 09:21 PM
And we all know what happens when a dog doesn't live up to it's owners expectations. Their kid develops an "allergy" to the dog right ??:rolleyes: And then its off to the nearest pound.:mad::mad::mad:

:sad: Makes me sad.

LL1
March 22nd, 2008, 02:50 PM
Makes me sad too,plenty of purebred and mixed breed dogs in shelters and rescues.