Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Overweight Vinnie..

chico2
March 6th, 2008, 07:14 AM
Well,Vinnie is going for his first annual with my new wonderful vet next week Wednesday.
He is definetly overweight and I am sure my vet will recommend Hills vet-food for him,which I will not feed Vinnie or any other of my cats.
I would like to tell the vet about a better plan for Vinnie,I am going to try to take the free-feed dry food away and feed Vinnie Wellness cans 3 times a day,rather than just twice.
Rocky and Chico will not eat Wellness,but I am sure Vinnie will,does that sound like a good plan for a loose-weight diet for him?
Or does anyone have any other suggestion??
I don't want to sound like a dummy with my new vet,I just want him to see my reasonings are sound..why I won't feed Vinnie dry Hills.

Love4himies
March 6th, 2008, 08:06 AM
I know how you feel, chico. I had an argument with my vet and his vet tech at a small public info session on pet food nutrition (put on by Hills). They are absolutely against raw feeding, boiled down to feeding them their natural diet for felines and simply said, if the meat is good enough for my family, then it must be good enough for my pets. I still don't have my cats on raw (all my lazy fault), but do make sure they get real meat mixed with their canned.

My daughter had luck with canned Wellness (grain free ones) and Orijen as a treat. They were both about 3 lbs overweight and are now normal. They were previously on Iams Weight Control. I am not having that much luck with it. Ever since Sweet Pea stopped nursing, her appetite has not stopped and she gets very food aggressive when she is hungry:frustrated:. I guess it is like us humans when we are hungry:sad:.

Have you tried any other high quality canned. Puddles who is a FF addict, loves Fromm's canned, the pate style (ch, duck, tuna and ch, duck, salmon):

http://www.frommfamily.com/products-fs-c.php

It is very expensive so I add it to her Wellness canned (2/3 Wellness, 1/3 Fromms). If you want to decrease the calories, add some water so they think they are eating normal portions without the calories. I do this for Sweet Pea.

chico2
March 6th, 2008, 08:28 AM
Thank's L4H,the problem in my cat-household is Rocky beeing so skinny from his HT,no diet for him:yell:he's actually slowly gaining weight:thumbs up
I am going to get some Wellness grainfree cans for Vinnie and try to ease out the dry.
I will also check out the frozen raw patties if the store has them..

Love4himies
March 6th, 2008, 08:48 AM
I KNOW how that is. My husband refuses to feed the cats now because they all have different diets:rolleyes:.

Puddles, too skinny, very picky, health issues, very low thirst drive. Can't eat high calorie kibble that she really wants to eat because of her kidneys, so she is only allowed canned. She was a FF addict so now I have found Fromms. Won't eat Go Natural with her Wellness, only Fromms (well of course FF, but she is not allowed to have that anymore). Doesn't really like Wellness on its own.

Sweet Pea: overweight, also a kibble addict, won't eat Fromms mixed with her Wellness, only Go Natural. She gets fed in the morning in her bedroom and locked up while we are work so Puddles can be free. Canned food mixed with water.

Jasper :lovestruck: oh sweet Jasper. Overweight, kibble addict, very good thirst drive, won't eat until all other cats have eaten. Nothing left with the canned food after Puddles and Sweet Pea, who finishes off Puddles' before Jasper has a chance to eat. Can't leave kibble out for him, Sweet Pea will eat it all. Give him kibble in the day when Sweet Pea is locked up, but Puddles gets into it too :frustrated::frustrated::frustrated:. End up giving Puddles water through a plastic syringe daily to ensure she is getting lots of water.

loopoo
March 6th, 2008, 12:42 PM
most definitely a wet diet, and taking away the kibble will help. Wellness canned is a good one and there are other grain free canned foods available. you may want to assess the current calorie content Vinnie is intaking now, add up the calories from the kibble plus the two cans you give to him now. reason being, you mentioned switching to three cans daily, so you want to make sure the caloric content is not more, if it looks to be the same, perhaps give him two cans and 2/3 or 3/4 of an extra can to begin with and monitor? weight loss occurring slowly is the best for any cat as you know, to avoid risking fatty liver disease. Good luck with Vinnie.. all your cats are beauties :)

rainbow
March 6th, 2008, 01:08 PM
I agree with everyone about wet and grain free is the best. Also, if you have to feed kibble make sure it is grain free as well.

Aside from diet will Vinnie chase a laser light or flashlight?

phoozles
March 6th, 2008, 03:43 PM
Chico2, as loopoo said, Wellness is pretty high in calories (about 220 a can), and your best bet to get Vinnie down to a sleek size is to cut down his current intake of food by about 20%, at least to start.
It's so gratifying when it happens! Good luck! :grouphug:

chico2
March 6th, 2008, 03:56 PM
Loopoo,Vinnie does not eat 3 cans/day:yell:,right now he eats maybe one can between breakfast and dinner and snacks on dry through the day(chicken-soup-for-catlovers-soul $40 special order).
They will not eat Orijen,Wellness,Innova or ant other dry food,I've tried a whole bunch.
None of the cats would ever eat 1 whole can on his own 3 times/day,that would make 9 cans/daily between 3 cats,at $1.29/can,we are retired it would just cost too much,unfortunately.
I am wrong,I am sure Vinnie would eat 3 cans:laughing:
Rainbow,he is not interested in the laser-pointer at all,Rocky and Chico love it,but we have other ways of keeping him active.
Once the spring/summer comes along(if ever)he'll spend time with us outside and probably will loose some weight.

Today I was looking for the raw patties,to maybe slowly introduce them to raw,but I could not find any store that carries it for cats,only dogs:yell:
Maybe Global Ryans that order their dry food for me,carries it,I'll check.

sugarcatmom
March 6th, 2008, 04:43 PM
Today I was looking for the raw patties,to maybe slowly introduce them to raw,but I could not find any store that carries it for cats,only dogs:yell:
Maybe Global Ryans that order their dry food for me,carries it,I'll check.

Chico, not sure if this store is anywhere near you but they supposedly carry Nature's Variety frozen medallions:

CANADIAN PET CONNECTION
1500 Upper Middle Road West Unit 5B
Oakville , ON L6M 3G3 905-847-3299
Product stocked: Raw Frozen Diets

And this one stocks Nature's Variety, but it doesn't specify raw or not:

GLOBAL PET FOOD
1011 Upper Middle Rd East, Unit 5
Oakville , ON L6A 4L2 905-339-1503

chico2
March 7th, 2008, 06:43 AM
SCM,Canadian Pet Connection is just up the street from me and Global is where I get the CSFPLS,,thank's.

chico2
March 7th, 2008, 04:10 PM
I bought a sampler of Natures Variet Chicken and Turkey patties(16pieces) at Pet Connection,what a great store,he has anything and everything in Pet-Food,anything except junkfood:thumbs up
I am going to start with mixing a bit in their canned food,as to not shock their system,hopefully they'll like it:fingerscr

phoozles
March 7th, 2008, 04:13 PM
Good luck chico2! :fingerscr Were they expensive?

chico2
March 7th, 2008, 04:20 PM
No,they were only $4.99 +tax for the sampler,each pattie is about the size of a small can.

14+kitties
March 7th, 2008, 06:30 PM
Good luck with the weight lose Chico2. :thumbs up It sounds like you have a good hold on it. I am sure if you explain your reasoning to your new vet he will be ok with it. Funny, so far my vet hasn't even mentioned food to me. But then my cats are "barn cats". :frustrated:
Keep us informed on whether the kitties like their new food or not please. It sounds like it would be cheaper for me than what I feed now @ 1.09 a can/8 cans a day. Plus dry of course. Of course, I would have to find a Pet Connection around here. :rolleyes: Will do Google search for closest.
Will keep :fingerscr for vet visit.

Deda Brada
March 8th, 2008, 02:00 AM
Hi!

You must try to save Vinnie from acquiring hepatic lipidosis. Good thing is to have very precise scale and to control Vinnies weight every few days. Cat must not reduce his/her weight more rapidly than 2.5% weekly. Meanwhile, experts concluded, according to a clinical research, that food with the very high contents of proteins prevents hepatic lipidosis, even if the weight loss is more rapid. Likewise, supplementing 500mg L-carnitine daily helps a lot in the prevention of hepatic lipidosis during rapid weight reductions.

Many regards and best wishes from Deda

chico2
March 8th, 2008, 04:09 PM
Well,the raw did not work:yell:I mixed just about 1 tsp with their canned food,nobody would eat it,not even Vinnie...so I guess that will be crowfood.
I will just do what I have always been doing,but I will take away the dry food through the day and feed them a little canned at lunchtime instead.
The problem is Chico,he loves his dry food,only eats a little canned every day,unless it's something fishy.

sugarcatmom
March 8th, 2008, 05:06 PM
What about trying even less than a tsp? Like a teensy pinch, the size of a pencil eraser. Mix it in really well, do that for a few days, then increase the amount to 2 pencil erasers, and so on. My cat didn't like Nature's Variety at first either, but I kept trying it and trying it until he finally realized it was something edible. Now he loves it.

You could also sprinkle ground up dry food on top, or powderized freeze-dried treats like Halo Liv-a-littles or Real Food Toppers. Or, mix a very small amount with chicken baby food (no onions). You might have to pull out all the tricks, but I wouldn't give up just yet. Part of the reason cats are so finicky and suspicious of new foods is to avoid ingesting something toxic. Once they get accustomed to the smell and presence of something, they become more accepting of it.

growler~GateKeeper
March 8th, 2008, 10:57 PM
Chico like SCM mentions alot of cats won't eat raw @ first they are so used to the dry/canned smell of their food that they don't recognize raw as food.

Try smaller amounts mixed in or try again in a couple of days.

You can also put small amounts of catnip on the raw it does actually stimulate their appetite. Just don't put enough to get them loopy or they won't want to eat. I did this with Duffy once cuz the meat variety she had was "not one of her favorites" :rolleyes: spoiled :cat:

You can try a small amount of the butternut squash mixed in as well especially for Rocky since he has had that already, he knows that smell & taste as food.

Duffy loves her raw food but I have offered her a piece of regular human raw chicken I was prepping for cooking she wouldn't eat it :shrug:

Deda Brada
March 9th, 2008, 01:40 AM
... I will take away the dry food through the day and feed them a little canned at lunchtime instead.

I realize that your cats have their dry food accessible all day long (or maybe I am wrong?). There is no weight control if food is always accessible. This stands for multi cat houses, of course (like your is). There is always at least one good eater among cats, so he'll eat everything he can grab. You must take food away. When there is time for meal, every cat gets her/his own portion of food. That's control.

Love4himies
March 9th, 2008, 07:49 AM
Don't give up, chico. am selfishly keeping a close eye on this thread to get my kitties to eat raw

I think giving raw to cats who have always been on cat food is like trying to get children who have always eaten junk food to start eating fresh fruit and veggies.

Love4himies
March 9th, 2008, 07:51 AM
There is always at least one good eater among cats, so he'll eat everything he can grab. You must take food away. When there is time for meal, every cat gets her/his own portion of food. That's control.

Thats the problem I am having with Sweet Pea, she is the food garborator and now have to take all food away while she is free. She needs to loose 2lbs :sad:

chico2
March 9th, 2008, 08:04 AM
Yes,that would be my Vinnie:laughing:
My cats,at least Rocky and Vinnie,will eat bits of raw chicken,beef or whatever I am preparing,so I am not giving up yet.
I will check today,by giving them a little of the patties without mixing it...jus a small amount.

CyberKitten
March 9th, 2008, 03:00 PM
You have already has lots of good advice so I won't add much more. I went to feeding my own cooking which was not easy and is not for everyone (and I am not certain it's cheaper either but that was not a great concern) - I think cats are meant to eat wet food and dry is never really a good option unless one is stuck and it is dry food that does not contain unnecessary ingredients. I think Wellness has some like that.

I do want to wish you good luck though!!!!! :thumbs up I hope Vinnie looses weight - it's tough for humans AND kitties!

chico2
March 9th, 2008, 03:35 PM
C-K,thank's,it's nice to see you popping in ever now and then:thumbs up

Love4himies
March 11th, 2008, 01:19 PM
How is it going, Chico, any luck?

chico2
March 11th, 2008, 03:34 PM
No L4H,they won't touch the food,even with a little raw in it,so,I give up.
:shrug:
I have had cats who lived to be 19 years old,healthy until the very last year.
I don't even remember what I used to feed them,but they did well,I never fed them dry food though.
I am just a little worried about what my new wonderful vet will say about the chunkster Vinnie tomorrow:laughing:
I will NOT buy any kind of diet Hills.

sugarcatmom
March 11th, 2008, 06:45 PM
Don't give up just yet, chico2. You don't have to try every day, but maybe next week you could offer just the itsy-bitsiest sliver of NV mixed in some baby food (have your kitties ever had the pleasure of trying Heinz 'chicken with broth' baby food? It ranks very high on the "Appealing to Cats" scale!). The week after that you can try 2 slivers. If the rest of the medallion has to go to the crows, then so be it. Try again the next week.

I absolutely know how frustrating it is to have food that you lovingly offer get repeatedly snubbed. Persistence and patience are crucial! Think like the Borg from Star Trek: "Resistance is futile!"

Love4himies
March 12th, 2008, 06:43 AM
How about offering Vinnie some semi cooked meat (rare) and feeding it to them when it is still warm? I am starting to have success with Puddles doing that. She still won't touch the prepared raw.:sad:

Kristin7
March 12th, 2008, 10:52 AM
I am in this same boat with my chubby cat Annie... haven't tried the raw thing yet, though, but am thinking about it. However recently my cats have become really fussy about their canned food so they are finishing up their bag of kibble..will get them some new cans this weekend. Annie goes to the vet on Sat. for her annual visit, and I just know I'm going to get scolded about her weight :o My vet isn't super pushy about the Rx food luckily. How did Vinnie's checkup go?

chico2
March 12th, 2008, 03:50 PM
Well,I am still sooo incredibly impressed by this new vet,I could just hug him:lovestruck:
Yes,Vinnie is really overweight at 18+lbs:yell:the solution is to take away the dry completely,no more free-feeding,no more dry food:thumbs up
Feed the cats 3 times/day,only canned(I am home,retired)
and more than what I have been feeding.
He,his name is Dieter(Austrian descent)never suggested the Hills dry Rx-food,he actually said,he's had no success with the diet Hills,what a 100% turnaround from my old"vets":thumbs up
He gave Vinnie a thorough check up,nothing wrong other than beeing chunky and of course going all googa,gaaga over Vinnies pretty face:laughing:
He was due for his shots,rabies every 3 yrs and would you believe the FVRCP was only $14.50+Rabies $12.50 compared to $79 with my old vets,what a huge dfference,check up is about the same at $56.60,nailclipping complimentary,old vet $14.50.
I am not cheap,I would probably go to this man,even if he was more expensive,he has such a wonderful way of dealing with the animals,did I tell you I LOVE him:laughing:
So,the only problem I have is with Chico,he loves his dry food,not so much canned,so I have to figure out a way..so only he gets to eat it..
As for the raw,I'll give it a rest for now,it's still in the freezer,I'll try it again when we have our routine down pat.

06canyon
March 12th, 2008, 03:59 PM
what good news

sugarcatmom
March 12th, 2008, 04:07 PM
Hooray!!! Sounds like you found a keeper. Glad to hear Vinnie's check-up went well.

chico2
March 12th, 2008, 04:14 PM
Thank's girls!!
SCM,you don't know the half of it what I went through with the 5 vets at the old place,I am soo incredibly relieved,to find someone who really cares.:cat:
He actually has an article every month in www.petsmagazine.ca get a free copy because of it.
I don't know if I am allowed to say his name,but in this issue he talks about heartworm,his name is Dr Dieter Kohlmaier.

Kristin7
March 13th, 2008, 03:47 PM
That's awesome! :thumbs up I've been thru a lot of vets as well, and have kind of settled on one, but have some issues with her. Given up looking for a new one for now.

growler~GateKeeper
March 14th, 2008, 01:18 AM
Chico I forgot to mention to warm up the food (can't recall if you already are) before feeding, do not use microwave though. Run the hot water in the sink then put in the plug fill with enough water to cover the bottom of the bowl/saucer/plate you feed them from. This is great for the raw & also the canned cats usually like their food at "prey" temperature :laughing: not cold from the fridge. This might also encourage Chico to have a taste of canned :fingerscr if he can smell some warmed up food a little better. :goodvibes:

and YAY for a great vet :highfive:

chico2
March 14th, 2008, 06:37 AM
Growler I usually add warm water to their food,since they do more slurping up their food than chewing.
I've been giving them an extra can at lunchtime and taken away the dry food,it seems to be working good.:thumbs up
Chico is a bit of a problem,as long as I sit beside him,he will eat and so far it's ok,it takes me about 1/2 hour,between making sure Rocky gets his pill and Chico gets some peace and quiet to eat..but I am retired,got lot's of time:laughing:

I suspect Rocky has Giardia(sp?) and ME TOO:yell:although the initial test with my old vet,showed no parasites.
Dieter(new vet)suggested a DNA test to find out,never heard of that before,but apparently it's quicker and more precise to show Giardia.
Rocky often gets to lick a little butter off my sandwich(sorry if someone gets disgusted!)and I still eat it(sorry)so it's possible I picked up Giardia from him,I think:confused::confused:

sugarcatmom
March 14th, 2008, 09:16 AM
Rocky often gets to lick a little butter off my sandwich(sorry if someone gets disgusted!)and I still eat it(sorry)

I do that too!! Aztec loves toast, especially if there's peanut butter or cheese on it. He's not allowed to eat very much bread cause it'll effect his blood sugar, but I do let him lick the toppings.

Hope Rocky's (and your :eek:) "issues" get resolved soon!

krdahmer
March 14th, 2008, 10:10 AM
Growler I usually add warm water to their food,since they do more slurping up their food than chewing.
I've been giving them an extra can at lunchtime and taken away the dry food,it seems to be working good.:thumbs up
Chico is a bit of a problem,as long as I sit beside him,he will eat and so far it's ok,it takes me about 1/2 hour,between making sure Rocky gets his pill and Chico gets some peace and quiet to eat..but I am retired,got lot's of time:laughing:

I suspect Rocky has Giardia(sp?) and ME TOO:yell:although the initial test with my old vet,showed no parasites.
Dieter(new vet)suggested a DNA test to find out,never heard of that before,but apparently it's quicker and more precise to show Giardia.
Rocky often gets to lick a little butter off my sandwich(sorry if someone gets disgusted!)and I still eat it(sorry)so it's possible I picked up Giardia from him,I think:confused::confused:

Wow Chico so glad you love the new vet! That's great... and the canned is going well too!:thumbs up Our problem here is the routine part... :shrug:

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who still eats my toast AFTER the cats have licked off the margerine! :rolleyes::laughing: But I had no idea we could share parasites! (well I had an idea I guess but maybe just never worried about it). I also have to fight Fagan and Smoke for the first drink out of a glass of water... they drink out of my glass every chance they get, and I used to let them drink and get myself another glass... but... not anymore...

Love4himies
March 14th, 2008, 11:56 AM
I do that too!! Aztec loves toast, especially if there's peanut butter or cheese on it. He's not allowed to eat very much bread cause it'll effect his blood sugar, but I do let him lick the toppings.

Hope Rocky's (and your :eek:) "issues" get resolved soon!

Puddles likes mashed bananas on toast, and I thought she was unique.

Kristin7
March 16th, 2008, 08:37 AM
Yeah, giardia can be passed between cat and human... my ex-boyfriend gave it to one of our cats, who was sneaking drinks out of the toilet. Upon bringing Chester to the vet, my ex figured out what his recurring problem was too. It can be hard to diagnose as its not always detectable.

So Annie had her checkup yesterday and my vet totally berated me because Annie has gained some weight, up to 13 lbs when last year she was 11 something. I realize she's gained weight and I don't think it is a good thing, so really don't like the scolding. I am not one of those owners who gives out a lot of treats or anything, or wants a fat cat. Enough already, geez! She told me Annie has to be on diet food, but luckily didn't try and push a Rx diet food on me. Do any of those work, even the good holistic brands? I thought they were full of fillers and such. My plan is still to move the cats over to all canned food eventually. They are not free fed anything, the only thing I can think of is that I switch to different brands of food on occasion and some are higher in kcal than others, so have inadvertently been feeding more calories without meaning to. However, Micki hasn't gained weight, I don't think, so she is fine, but she is the slow eater and doesn't always eat her full servings either. ugh! My vet can be so condescending sometimes, it is annoying. She just went on and on and on about Annie's weight, even asking me if I needed help carrying her out. :yell:

sugarcatmom
March 16th, 2008, 09:24 AM
She told me Annie has to be on diet food, but luckily didn't try and push a Rx diet food on me. Do any of those work, even the good holistic brands?

Nope, not even so-called holistic 'diet' food. They all work on the premise that in order to feed less calories, you have to feed less protein or fat and more carbohydrates. Which doesn't work for cats. Portion controlled wet food is the only way to go.

Kristin7
March 16th, 2008, 10:56 AM
That's what I thought, thanks sugarcatmom. I stocked up on canned food and the bag of kibble is nearly gone, so hopefully Annie will trim down over this summer.

chico2
March 16th, 2008, 04:15 PM
Kristin,my former vet treated me like that too,like I knew nothing about nutrition for my cats.
Now my new wonderful vet,said the same as Sugarcatmom,even admitted that Hills diet RX food has never worked,no pushing from him.:thumbs up
I now feed my 3 cats 3 meals of canned/day,no more dry freefeeding,no more Temptation treats,instead I give them a few good quality kibbles for treat and they don't mind at all.
Cats are not supposed to lose weight rapidly,so it will probably take a while before you notice any weightloss in your kitty,my Vinnie weighs almost 18lb's:yell: