Pets.ca - Pet forum for dogs cats and humans 

-->

Joint Problems or not?

GSDog
February 29th, 2008, 03:01 PM
I just went to the vet this morning and the vet said I had a very healthy dog but he has just a bit of joint problems due to his growth. He will be 5 months in a week. He already weighs 70lbs! ouch. The vet said that this dog will be around 130lbs if he continues like now in his growth. He told me to stop giving him puppy food and start adult food or when he reaches the age 8-9 he will die cause of his growth and weight. I know as a fact there is NO hip problems in his family cause the owner had the whole family checked out for that and he said none at all nor in the grandparents. He is a well know owner cause he raises and trains S/R dogs for police, RCMP etc etc. He only had one father and 3 moms so he's very carefull with what he does. Anyhow, I want my dog to get neutered but the vet said its up to us if we want to make sure his hips are ok but having an xray done right before our dogs gets cut open. And if there is a hip problem it will be us to decide to have him neutered or not.

I was also with my sister in law which she was there with me to get her dog's shots and taking also an appointment to get her dog neutered too. Hers is 2 months older than mine and both weighs the same. By fluke my husband was with her in an other office for her dog cause we were finish with ours so he went to help her put the dog on the table and she also asked if he gets an xray for the hips cause my husband just finish telling her what our vet said. So her vet said why? do you really want to know? :shrug:

That is why im asking if anything like this has happened to any of your guys and what should i do. Say no to the xray cause i already know there isnt any hip problems or should i anyhow just incase cause hes growing too fast?

thanks for your inputs :pawprint:

BMDLuver
March 2nd, 2008, 08:43 AM
When Patch, my Berner, was 5 months old, we switched him to adult food. He was growing way too fast on the puppy food which was causing loose joints and him to appear over at the knee. We slowed down his growth to some extent. The best time to xray a dog for hips, elbows etc is really around the 18 month mark. It's the big picture for the future and prior to 2 is the optimum time for surgery. The growth plate has almost fully developed and surgery is quite successful. Patch had surgery at 20 months for an s-curved tibia and today you would never know it. He leaps, bounces and acts the fool when playing in the snow. At 5 months, it's really too early to see the finished product and too early to do corrective surgery. Best to save the pennies for down the road unless the dog is showing any signs of pain, then it's a whole other ball o wax!

mona_b
March 2nd, 2008, 04:15 PM
First off you need to know that it doesn't matter if the parents are cleared,pups can still end up having problems with hips/elbows

And I also stated that you will end up having issues because of his weight.Your poor pup should not weigh this much.

I had my guys switched at 6 months to adult.I also had their hips/elbows checked at 6 months then again at 2.

You said the "breeder" told you that there were no issues.Sorry,but he just shouldn't have just told you,he should have had the paperwork of the clearences given to you.:)

Also,i'm sure there is no difference from here and Quebec,but SAR dogs are part of a non profit volunteering by civilians.What this means is that when someone goes missing,it's not the force that has these dogs,it's the trained civilians who do,and they are called in.And both dogs and handlers go through a ton of training.And they are on call 24/7.Sorry,but I just needed to clarify that....:)

GSDog
March 3rd, 2008, 08:54 AM
when i bought the dog he was a normal weight...just that he kept growing and growing and growing...anyhow he will be on adult food cause he is growing too fast..i power walk everyday for over one hour min. and thats aside when i take him out evenings...also we go to the dog park once a while...so he does get his exercise...Mona, i didnt say you were wrong about the size of GSD...just i have never seen 50lbs male...probably i wasnt looking till i got this one too...im not disagreeing with you cause its like humans...if your too big you will get joint problems or whatever that will follow...anyhow my dog isnt fat at all just a very husky, wide, muscular dog...

thanks for your inputs guys :dog:

mona_b
March 3rd, 2008, 10:34 AM
My suggestion is to not play him hard.What I mean is,don't get him running or jumping to hard.You will make matters worse,especially with the size he is.With this breed this should NOT be done untill at least 14months.The bones have become stronger at this age.

Also,more and more ethical GSD breeders are starting their pups off on adult.

Like I have said before,I grew up with this breed and have raised 3.My brothers 4-legged partner is a GSD.My current was his partner..And I am with this breed at work.:)

Research everything there is to know about this breed if you haven't already.

So,what titles does your breeder have on his dogs?Just curious....:)

GSDog
March 3rd, 2008, 04:00 PM
Im not sure what you mean by titles...I know my dog's mom was a show dog but the owner wanted an xray for the hips cause he wanted to breed her. The father like i mention is a S/R dog...this owner does hmmm from what i see here on the papers is K9...now i dont know what is MG...He's a specialist in GSD and also trains them if you want your dog in a sport, like when you see dogs going through hoops, between canes, jumping boards etc etc...Dog Obedience, and other stuff...not sure of all...we just bought a dog as a family dog...to tell you the truth, i dont even care what the father or mother or grandparents did...im not like that and not into that...so long the family are and were healthy...for me thats whats important and having a good friendly house dog. If i was going to get a dog to put in shows it would be a different story...but im not...So if he ends up being a big dog i cant do much about it...I cant shrink him either..he is as he is...he's a happy dog and loves to move and run...so i guess he likes his new home... :dog::thumbs up

LavenderRott
March 3rd, 2008, 04:57 PM
Titles - Championship, CD, CDX, UD, UDX, CGC, etc. (These would be noted on the pedigree of your pup - the Ch. being in front of the dog's name and any performance titles at the end of the dog's name.)

If your breeder had the "whole family checked" for hip problems, then he should be able to supply you with OFA numbers or PEN numbers that you can verify. If he had them checked by his vet - he is selling you a bill of goods.

Most high quality dog foods these days are "all stage" foods.

In order to avoid hip and other joint problems in your pup you are going to seriously keep an eye on his weight and keep his serious exercise to a minimum at this point. Running for long distances puts stress on the joints. Swimming is an excellent activity for a growing pup.

GSDog
March 3rd, 2008, 05:28 PM
oh ok ...and yes my dog can have all the papers from the owner cause i remember him asking me if i wanted them and if i did of course i would have to pay more for the dog...like i said, for us its not a question of papers...just to have a family dog and im not interested in putting him in shows and all...yes the owner also had the hip papers of both parents which he said when i drop by this summer he will be glad to show them to me...

many years ago when i use to have dobes...a friend of mine use to train dobes and put them in shows...like she said if people only new how many papers are fake out there your mouth would drop...I recall her saying this guy's dog died but kept the papers and passed it on saying that the papers belong to this specific dog when he really died..so what im trying to say is some owners can pretend that the papers are for so and so dog when they really arent cause the orginal dog died or whatever...another friend of mine said the same thing for horses...he trained horses and said he's seen that done often...so you know, when it comes to papers, for ME my opinion it really dont care about papers...so long its a happy puppy and put with a good family...:pawprint:

satchelp
March 3rd, 2008, 07:08 PM
In Canada, it's illegal under the Animal Pedigree Act to sell a dog as purebred and not provide CKC registration papers. It's also illegal to charge extra for registration papers. Your breeder is not on the level.

GSDog
March 3rd, 2008, 08:40 PM
I can have papers if i want...all he has to do is to go register my dog...but i dont want to have papers...like i said, im not doing anything with the do but a family dog...:)

maxi's mom
March 3rd, 2008, 09:16 PM
GSDog,

When my gsd was a baby he was very big also and we started giving him adult food, so it is good that you made the change. Also, I truly suggest that you enjoy your puppy right now, do not worry about his hips yet and do the x-ray etc, just wait until he is 2 years old and then do it.
Also, it is really good that you have your puppy very active but remember he is a real baby, so walk him but i truly suggest avoid any jumpimp.
My GSD walks 6 miles everyday and the most he has been was 89 lbs now he is 86 and he is 5 years old. Enjoy and love him a lot...just be a little patient until he is 2 years old. You are doing well. :thumbs up

GSDog
March 3rd, 2008, 09:59 PM
thank you we are enjoying him even though he can be a pain in the butt right now...but hes adorable...:angel:

:offtopic: i gave you my :2cents: on pannus
good luck

mona_b
March 4th, 2008, 01:56 AM
In Canada, it's illegal under the Animal Pedigree Act to sell a dog as purebred and not provide CKC registration papers. It's also illegal to charge extra for registration papers. Your breeder is not on the level.

Exactly.

Also:

CKC ResourcesFAQ'sRegistration

Registration

Q. How do I register a dog born in Canada?
A. To register a dog born in Canada, the litter must be registered by the breeder first. It is then the responsibility of the breeder to provide registration papers at no additional cost to the buyer within six months from date of sale. Once the litter has been registered, the breeder will automatically receive applications from the CKC to individually register the puppies. The application must be completed and submitted to the CKC by the breeder, along with the required fees. Please note that under normal circumstances it takes the CKC approximately 7 to 10 days to complete the registration of a dog and return the Certificate of Registration to the breeder.

Registration papers are the only proof that your dog is a purebred.

What got me thinking about this "breeder" was how you bought your pup at 6 weeks.No ethical breeder would have done that.Red flag.

This breeder told you that he would "show" you the hip papers?Another red flag.All copies should have been given to you when you bought your pup.

Even a BIGGER red flag,he "asked" you if you wanted the papers,then tells you the pup would cost more..Here is some more infor for you.Under the CKC Pedigree act,it is illegal to sell a pup with papers for one price,then sell a pup without papers for a lesser price.

Trust me,you say it doesn't matter about the papers,all you want is a family pet.Well that's fine.But what does matter is a "breeder" taking advantage.

mymilty
March 8th, 2008, 12:56 PM
Hi,
I joined this site so I could let you know about a product I absolutely believe in. I have just lost my GSD who would have been 14 on the 15th. I did civilian S.A.R. with him until he was 11 and also therapy work in many hospitals and nursing homes. When he got sick he just suddenly couldn't get up one night and the vet thought it may have been a ruptured disc.Unfortunately it was advanced lymphoma complicated by pnuemonia and had to be euthanized one week later. The point of this posting is to tell you that when they x-rayed his spine and hips they were absolutely amazed to see his hips-they were the hips of a healthy 6 months old puppy with NO degeneration or wear at all. The sockets and balls were perfectly round and tight and the vets at the university said they had never seen anything like it.
I attribute this to a product called Scorbatate which Paddy had been on since 5 weeks of age. It is an acsorbate and therefore water soluble source of vitamin C and is very absorbable. Years ago I read an excerpt from Dr. Pitcairn's book on natural medicine for animals and he feels dysplasia is a sub clinical scurvy please refer to link
http://books.google.ca/books?id=YSKQngJJBcMC&pg=PA280&lpg=PA280&dq=dr+pitcairn+hip+dysplasia+vitamin+c&source=web&ots=lKHHPOW_jI&sig=zi6_qzZsgLYNzdaPLHbMNkDFJeU&hl=en#PPA280,M1
I gave some Scorbatate to a friend who had a young golden cross who could barely walk and now she chases he horses. I have had many malinois and 2 bordeaux and 2 neopolitan mastiffs and absolutely none of my dogs were dysplastic and they all worked hard! I found this link to buy Scorbatate but please note it is VERY potent as 1/2 teaspoon contains 2 grams so I start with a small (1/16 tsp) to start and slowly increase until the stool gets soft and then I cut back. It contains many acsorbate sources so it aids in many other fields such as immune support. The link is below
http://www.yourethecure.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=11
I also have spoken with an internist vet who specializes in nutrition and he believes in high protein and fat for working and growing dogs. I also have had too much information from many camps regarding large breed pups and protein but I think if you monitor your dog and follow your heart you'll be able to sort through the information and make a good decision for your pups.
Good luck.