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Another "what to feed" question!

katie&thecrew
February 27th, 2008, 01:09 PM
I feel like I'm running in circles here....

My pup is a SharpeiX, and having had a sharpei in the past, I know the nightmare health issues that can arise. We started him on Solid Gold puppy (Lamb, Millet) and at 3 months he broke out in horrible hot spots (a scene of what's to come, LOL!). I switched to Go's "Now" brand for Puppy, which is grain-free and Turkey & Duck and so far so good.

However, he will be nearing adult hood and my head is swimming with choices...

I was going to start him on Orijen, but my local holistic store actually poo-poo'd the brand! Said they only carried it because they felt they had to, they claim the ingredients are not as good as the company claims. That was really confusing to me, as I trust this store 110%, they are constantly doing their research.

Ideally I would like grain-free and no chicken. It is proving to be much much much harder than I thought. Right now I'm thinking Innova Evo Red Meat? I should also mention that unfortunately raw diet is not an option for us :(

Any opinions welcome, I have never been so insanely thorough about this!!!

Tommysmom
February 27th, 2008, 01:19 PM
I'm not sure why they would say that about Orijen, but then, everybody has their opinions:shrug:.

I've had absolutely horrible troubles with food for my dog between his health problems and his allergies, and Orijen 6 fish has been fantastic, I simply can't say enough good things about it. It's the first food that he's done consistently well on for a decent period of time. I think the ingredients are excellent compared to many other foods.

We tried Evo red meat too, and that was good but didn't agree with him so well - I think it was a bit too rich for him, his poops weren't as great as they are now and he kept getting little liquid burps. We still have a bag of it and use it as treats from time to time, he loves it, but it just wasn't a good food for him full time.

CHATeau_CHIEN
February 27th, 2008, 02:54 PM
We sell Orijen in our store, and belive it to be very good. What reason did your local store give you for not recommending Orijen? Its certainly much better then most of the food out there and the 6-fish has solved many problems for our customers. May I ask why you can't feed raw? Are you able to cook for your dog?

Have you looked at Natural Balance allergy formulas or Wellness simple solutions? Another great food we have started to carry is Canisource http://www.canisource.com/ which claims to use 100% human grade ingredients and is cooked at very low temperatures to preserve nutrients. I'm not sure if it is available in your area yet, but they claim it solves many allergy problems.

Hope this helps, PM me for more info.

Graham

Linda1840
February 27th, 2008, 04:15 PM
I have dealt with my dog allergies for years. Been the steriods and allergy injections. I even tried homemade turkey and rice. Cooked Venison with potatoes and carrots. Been on perscrip Science Diet. Nothing worked.
We are now on perscription Royal Canin Rabbit and potatoe. My Derm Vet recommended it. This has made more difference than anything with the itching problem. :fingerscr Good luck finding the answer. It's flustrating!

mika140
February 27th, 2008, 07:07 PM
I was going to start him on Orijen, but my local holistic store actually poo-poo'd the brand! Said they only carried it because they felt they had to, they claim the ingredients are not as good as the company claims.

I've been feeding Orijen and my dogs are doing fantastic on it. I'd be curious what their facts are about the ingredients. Not to get into a debate, but for my own info. If there's truth to it, I'd really like to know what it is so that I'm more educated about the food. Any way you can ask them?

rainbow
February 27th, 2008, 07:42 PM
I would also like to know why your pet store doesn't like the Orijen ingredients. :confused:

rainbow
February 27th, 2008, 07:49 PM
Another option is Wellness CORE Ocean formula.

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_wellness_grain_ocean.html


If he is doing well on the Go NOW puppy formula why don't you just switch to the adult formula?

http://www.petcurean.com/index.php?page_id=160

katie&thecrew
February 28th, 2008, 01:05 AM
Re: Orijen, they said that some of the ingredients are actually sourced out, I heard from another country they said...I've never known this store to lie, in fact they are so very very honest and all they care about are the animals...as I stated before they are SO up on their research, I've never known them to get sucked into rumors or lies...they are not about the bottom line, they are big on holistic and supplements....

Ooooo, thanks for the Now link, I didn't see that they had a non-chicken Now!!!!!!! The only grain-free bag I saw was a big chicken mix...that may just be what I want :D

Although I am torn between this & Orijen, especially after reading all the rave reviews here...I am hesitant, as I said, but we will see...Thanks for all the great feedback!!

rainbow
February 28th, 2008, 01:27 AM
I think your pet store has been misinformed. Champion Pet Foods states on their website that all of their ingredients are regional.

http://www.championpetfoods.com/orijen/faq/

If you want clarification you should send an email to peter@championpetfoods.com ....he is very good at replying.

katie&thecrew
February 28th, 2008, 11:10 AM
I have read a lot about Orijen, but I also know that pet food companies, no matter how caring they seem, are really marketing machines. This same store also stopped carrying Wellness (when it used to be one of the best foods out there) when they started using larger factories and the quality declined. However, even when asked OUTRIGHT by email, Wellness denied any changes whatsoever...not too long after a "new taste" sticker appeared on their bags and sure enough.....I have read the emails from Orijen, and they are very intelligent and well said, but so are emails from Iams & Vet diets :laughing: And we all know.....

I very well may be making the incorrect choice, which is fine because it's mine and I'm sure I make lots of them ;), but unfortunately once the seed is planted it's hard to change it.

gypsy_girl
February 28th, 2008, 04:50 PM
I am a firm believer, if you find something that works (especially after the issues you had) stick with it. This is provided you like the ingredients etc.

CHATeau_CHIEN
March 4th, 2008, 03:03 PM
Here is the response I received from Orijen when I asked them about the source of their ingredients:

Hello Graham,

Thank you for your email.

All of our ingredients are indeed Canadian and they are mostly local to our area. ORIJEN formulas start from fresh regional ingredients like grain-fed chicken and fresh whole eggs produced on local prairie farms, lake whitefish - freshly caught from the icy depths of northern Canadian lakes, and salmon, cranberries and apples from Pacific coast oceans and orchards.

Our website is very informative with all the information about ingredients and nutritional information.

If you have any further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind Regards,



I think maybe the store you are dealing with is misinformed, or they know something we don't. I don't see a company outright lying about this, but you never know. Its certainly much better then most of the food out there. Best thing you can do is stay informed.

Graham

katiebear
February 6th, 2009, 02:24 PM
Your comment about most commercial dog food companies being marketing machines is bang on. It's so hard to know what to believe. In regards to Orijen's ingredients, I had actually called to talk to their nutritionist when looking into switching foods for my dog, Katie. While Orijen does use regionally sourced meats that are "human grade" they also use meat meals - half of the meat that goes into the recipe is actually a meal. My personal feeling/experience/research with meals is that it is not something a dog should be eating since it is highly processed. Also - Orijen gets their meals from a 3rd party. Their 3rd party supplier may very well be Canadian, but the supplier does not have to state where the meat that goes through the processing comes from - this could be why your pet store isn't keen on the food. So, after all my research, I settled on CaniSource - it's a dehydrated raw kibble (so you don't have to add water). It's Canadian and all the ingredients are not only sourced in Canada, but every ingredient is approved for human consumption - just so you know, "fit for human consumption" and "human grade" are not equal. There is actually no regulation for using the term "human grade" so it could be spoiled, rotten, contaminated meats that you would never consider ingesting yourself. CaniSource has improved Katie's allergies tremendously - she has seasonal allergies so nutrition can't cure it, but she no longer has to take drugs. :thumbs up That's says a TON!! If you can't feed raw, this is the next best thing! BTW - kudos to your local store for doing so much research on your behalf. I wish I had a store like that near me!

SuperWanda
February 6th, 2009, 05:44 PM
Katiebear - I posted this response to another thread where you were concerned with Orijen's meat meal:
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=60331

I feed the Orijen to both my dogs and have been very happy with the food. I will ask them about their meat meals but I believe they are also human grade according to their website FAQ:
http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/faq/

Q: MEAT QUALITY: Are ORIJEN meats human grade?

A: Yes. All ORIJEN fresh meats (chicken, fish, turkey, eggs) are of table quality. Chicken, fish and turkey meals are produced exclusively from animals that are certified as fit for human consumption by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).

They are great for answering any questions so I figure why speculate?

katiebear
February 6th, 2009, 09:30 PM
Q: MEAT QUALITY: Are ORIJEN meats human grade?

A: Yes. All ORIJEN fresh meats (chicken, fish, turkey, eggs) are of table quality. Chicken, fish and turkey meals are produced exclusively from animals that are certified as fit for human consumption by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).

They are great for answering any questions so I figure why speculate?

The thing to keep in mind is that there is no definition (as far as pet food labeling goes) for "human grade" or "table quality" - they are nice rosy terms but there is no actual definition to clarify what that actually means. It certainly plays on our conscious as a good thing because it does sound good. The thing would be to ask them if the ingredients are certified for human consumption meaning they could take it out of their fridge and serve it to people. Their statement about the meals is slightly ambiguous when they say that they are produced from animals that are certified as fit for human consumption - yes, it's better than road kill and euthenized pets and animals by far, but it says nothing about the quality or freshness (or parts for that mater) that are being used in the meal. It could very well be the refuse of rotting corpses of cattle that were harvested for human consumption. And since they get their meal from a 3rd party - they don't have control over what actually goes into it. Let's face it, the reason pet foods use meal is because it's cheaper than fresh meat and most extruded kibbles have to use dry ingredients to actually make the kibble. The reason meals exist is that it's a cheap and convenient way to get rid of the parts of the animals we humans don't eat - and it adds a great amount of protein to our pets' food. Orijen is a great company and I love their philosophy - I just wish they didn't use meals. If they would claim in writing that ALL the ingredients are "approved/certified/fit for human consumption" and took out the meals, I would wholeheartedly support them.

SuperWanda
February 7th, 2009, 08:56 AM
The thing would be to ask them if the ingredients are certified for human consumption meaning they could take it out of their fridge and serve it to people. Their statement about the meals is slightly ambiguous when they say that they are produced from animals that are certified as fit for human consumption

Am I missing something here? Is it just the "as fit" part of certified that you question? I'm going to have to contact the Canadian Food Inspection Agency now!

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/faq/
Chicken, fish and turkey meals are produced exclusively from animals that are certified as fit for human consumption by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency (CFIA).

and their chicken:

http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/about/freshRegionalIngredients.aspx
FRESH ALBERTA CHICKEN

Fresh chicken is a feature ingredient in ORIJEN diets. A superior source of high quality protein, our plump prairie chickens are grain-fed (no animal by-products) and are raised hormone and antibiotic free.

Raised “free-range” inside controlled barns, our chicken meat is federally inspected, certified as fit-for-human-consumption and arrives at our factory FRESH each day—never frozen or dried.

Slow cooked at low temperature (90c/195F) the same day they arrive, our fresh chicken has greater nutritional integrity than the previously frozen (raw) chicken used in the pet food industry, provide the natural goodness and flavor that all dogs and cats instinctively crave.

and their fish:

WORLD-CLASS FRESH FISH— LOW IN MERCURY AND FREE OF ETHOXYQUIN.

Canada’s pristine northern lakes hold an abundance of top-quality fish, and while each is distinct, they all have two things in common: world-class quality and world-class taste.

Fresh northern lake whitefish, walleye, lake trout, lake herring and freshwater cod are all indigenous to Canada and provide an excellent source of fresh fish protein, fresh essential oils, as well as selenium and B vitamins.

Caught wild from the cold, clean lakes of northern Alberta and Saskatchewan using sustainable harvesting practices, our fish are government -certified as human grade and delivered to our door FRESH (never frozen and without preservatives).

As key ingredients in all ORIJEN diets, our fresh fish provide premium quality unrendered proteins and a perfectly rich source of fresh marine source fatty acids (DHA, EPA) to promote peak vitality and physical conditioning.

Milly
February 7th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Hi Katie and crew
I think you started an Orijen debate without meaning too! ;)

How about Taste of the Wild? That's one that kept coming up when I was researching. They have a pacific stream formula and a venison, bison based one too. Our puppy was having lots of tummy troubles and we got samples of both Taste of the Wild and California Natural Lamb and Rice. We ended up going with the California Natural. I'm ok with some grain content and I just really liked the fact that the ingredient list was short and completely pronouncable! She's doing great on it by the way.

However, if we end up making a change to grain free, I think it will be to Taste of the Wild. It's priced pretty nicely too.

Good luck!

katiebear
February 7th, 2009, 11:00 AM
I think I need to apologize. I am in no means trying to bash Orijen. I was a very uneducated consumer a long time ago and fed Katie regular commercial dog foods. After 5 years, she started developing serious health issues. Even then it took me another 3 years to really start figuring out why she was having all the problems. After doing extensive research into the commercial pet food industry, I learned how deceptive those companies can be and how they prey on our love for our pets to get us to buy their food. I didn't realize that the pet food industry is completely unregulated. The only laws these companies have to abide by is the labeling law. Even then, there are very few terms that are actually defined, which means they can get by with using a lot of ambiguous terms that elicit good thoughts for us but mean absolutely nothing. Seeing what commercial dog food did to my dog has left me with an utter distrust for every commercial dog food producer so I question EVERYTHING. I went to preparing my own food for my dog but was always worried that I would get something wrong. When CaniSource was introduced to me, it was just what I was looking for (and believe me, I scrutinized everything about that company too!!). So, I'm really sorry if I came across as anti-Orijen - I'm not - I'm just so cautious about what goes into my pet's food and I can't help but ask why they have to use meals at all - regardless of the quality of it. Is it really necessary and does it actually improve our dog's health? Why can't pet food companies just use good, wholesome ingredients (like they all SAY they do)?

SuperWanda
February 7th, 2009, 12:24 PM
No need to apologize, I think we are all trying to do our best for our pets.

I also like to question things but just didn't understand why you say Plus CaniSource uses only ingredients fit for human consumption - Orijen does not.

CaniSource states that "100% of their ingredients are accepted for human consumption" http://www.canisource.com/CANISOURCE/english/ingredients.htm

how is that any less suspicious or ambiguous to Orijen's claims of being "certified as fit for human consumption?"

katiebear
February 7th, 2009, 01:00 PM
It's the 100% thing - every ingredient in CaniSource is approved for human consumption. Orijen only goes as far as claiming that the fresh meat is "table quality" - they make no further claim on the rest of their ingredients (and the nutritionist from Orijen that I spoke to would only say the fresh meat was certified for human consumption). But it really is the use of meal that I get hung up on. Ingredients have to be rendered to make meals and rendering exists as a way to make something useful (and for someone to turn a profit) out of something that would otherwise be discarded. I think that's what it all boils down to - I disagree with the use of meals, so even if they said every ingredient was approved for human consumption, I wouldn't use it if it has meals. I'm not even sure if a meal could ever be approved for human consumption (or why they would take perfectly good ingredients to make it into a meal in the first place)... :shrug: